Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Foxtrol

Saruhashi wrote: »

I don't feel like ANH or ESB are jarring uncomfortable awkward messes though.

I feel like The Last Jedi is.

You are portraying this like I've said "I love strawberries because they are red" then I am following that with "I hate watermelons because they are red". That's not what anyone has said though.

Maybe bowls of porridge would be a better analogy?

The prequels are too hot.
The sequels are too cold.

The originals are just right.

We have posters saying they hated TLJ because of the humour but in the same breath saying they liked the OT. When questioned on this they claimed that they ignore the Ewoks and C3PO, which is a total cop out. Others alleged that there was never humour in the OT during tense scenes, which is simply not true.

You can have any opinion you want on a movie but I just don't know how you get from you didn't like the 'flavour' to a it is a 'jarring uncomfortable awkward mess'. Seems like you can't really explain the issues for TLJ that aren't in the OT but choose to damn well use hyperbole anyway.

Maybe try learning what the Jedi didn't, that everything isn't black or white

Foxtrol

Goodshape wrote: »

Hm, not really.

Seemed to me that you were arguing "but ANH/ESB had humour too, so how can you hate it now?"

But all things are not equal. The comedy sprinkles in ANH/ESB worked for me. It didn't at all in TLJ.

A cake is more than a list of ingredients. It's in the measurements, the prep, the execution, even the presentation.

It's perfectly okay to like eggs and chocolate and flower in one cake and think they ruined another.

I don't think anyone would have an issue with someone not liking the jokes, I didn't like all of them, but claims that they didn't exist in the OT is delusional and that they were pervasive enough in TLJ to 'kill the franchise' or even be the main reason why someone disliked the movie is overblowning things.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

I love how the article says it's "the most polarizing movie of the year" but then says most people like it with only a small group hating or disliking it.

Most people love this polarizing thing. Bit of a contradiction there.

Most people love this movie but I think it's misunderstood. OK. So they mistakenly love it? :P

I don't get why "it's a deconstruction of Star Wars" automatically means it's good.

My favorite part I think is the idea that the movie says the idea of good guys and bad guys is a load of nonsense.

Didn't the First Order like blow up a bunch of planets?

The movie literally ends with a scene of objective good taking on objective evil with no grey areas at all.

I don't even know how we could say the Jedi are "wrong" in comparison to Vader and Palpatine or Kylo and Snoke. Clearly these are basically "Nazis in Space" and it's a bit odd that anyone thinks TLJ is "deconstructing" that idea.

The original and ESB are whacky space adventures about good vs evil.

TLJ is a less enjoyable whacky space adventure that pretends to not to be about just good vs evil but actually kind of is.

It doesn't really "deconstruct" anything.

This film is really challenging you, huh?

Saruhashi

Foxtrol wrote: »

We have posters saying they hated TLJ because of the humour but in the same breath saying they liked the OT. When questioned on this they claimed that they ignore the Ewoks and C3PO, which is a total cop out. Others alleged that there was never humour in the OT during tense scenes, which is simply not true.

You can have any opinion you want on a movie but I just don't know how you get from you didn't like the 'flavour' to a it is a 'jarring uncomfortable awkward mess'. Seems like you can't really explain the issues for TLJ that aren't in the OT but choose to damn well use hyperbole anyway.

Maybe try learning what the Jedi didn't, that everything isn't black or white

Do you seriously think that the humor in the OT is pretty much just the same as the humor in TLJ?

Even the placement and tone of the humor?

Personally I feel like they are drastically different.

ESB for example seems to maintain a pretty consistent tone throughout. There are still funny or goofy moments but these seem more carefully placed.

Yoda is a goofy old man but when the time is right:
"I'm not afraid"
"You will be. You will be".

TLJ, in my view, lurches from one tone to another not really settling down and ultimately undercutting many of it's more serious moments with attempts at humor. It's jarring. Some of the jokes don't land but it feels like the movie is looking at you to say "please laugh now". That's awkward and uncomfortable.

Even Snoke hitting Rey in the head with the lightsaber hilt. It's a bit of a "WTF" in a serious scene.

I've seen people compare Poe and Hux at the start of TLJ to Han and the "we're all fine here" moment from ANH. Seriously?

There is no contradiction between my reasons for loving the OT and my reasons for not liking TLJ.

I get it. If you can undermine the reasons for liking the OT then you can logically say "see, TLJ isn't THAT bad".

Yes it is. It is that bad.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

This film is really challenging you, huh?

No. The film is pretty basic and not very good.

Just like the prequels the Internet discussion is more interesting and more challenging AND more entertaining than the actual movie.

I'd actually rather read people debating the movie and get involved in those arguments than watch the movie again.

The article you shared was good. It was also wrong. :P

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

We have posters saying they hated TLJ because of the humour

You keep trying to drive this narrative, but you aren't even up to speed on what people are actually saying.

NOBODY is saying they didn't like TLJ "because of the humour". They are, almost universally, saying that the humour was inept, badly handled, tonally off and jarring with the events/characters on the screen.

And it's ONE of the reasons why TLJ didn't work, in part or in whole.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

No. The film is pretty basic and not very good.

Just like the prequels the Internet discussion is more interesting and more challenging AND more entertaining than the actual movie.

I'd actually rather read people debating the movie and get involved in those arguments than watch the movie again.

The article you shared was good. It was also wrong. :P

So When you don’t like something it’s bad and if you don’t agree with something it’s wrong. I don’t want too know what that means for anyone disagreeing with you.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

So When you don’t like something it’s bad and if you don’t agree with something it’s wrong. I don’t want too know what that means for anyone disagreeing with you.

Do I really have to preface every single post with "In my opinion"?

I thought that was a given on a movie discussion thread?

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

Do I really have to preface every single post with "In my opinion"?

I thought that was a given on a movie discussion thread?

Not at all. Think we’re all pretty aware of your {totally wrong}opinion at this stage

*im joking.

Foxtrol

Saruhashi wrote: »

Do you seriously think that the humor in the OT is pretty much just the same as the humor in TLJ?

Even the placement and tone of the humor?

Personally I feel like they are drastically different.

ESB for example seems to maintain a pretty consistent tone throughout. There are still funny or goofy moments but these seem more carefully placed.

TLJ, in my view, lurches from one tone to another not really settling down and ultimately undercutting many of it's more serious moments with attempts at humor. It's jarring. Some of the jokes don't land but it feels like the movie is looking at you to say "please laugh now". That's awkward and uncomfortable.

There is no contradiction between my reasons for loving the OT and my reasons for not liking TLJ.

I get it. If you can undermine the reasons for liking the OT then you can logically say "see, TLJ isn't THAT bad".

Yes it is. It is that bad.

They shifted the humour off comic relief characters to a more even spread of the cast, which I far prefer.

If you want to talk about lurching tone, in ESB before during and after the scene of Han getting frozen we have C3PO screaming 'jokes' with his head on backwards while being a backpack on Chewie and then further scenes like that are broken up in between the Luke/Vader 'I am your father' scene.

That to me is far worse than anything in TLJ. In the two pivotal serious scenes (throne room and the end battle) there is no humour forced in.

Zubeneschamali

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

What Lucas really needed for those movies was to put his ego aside and bring a good writer onboard to bring his vision and story treatment to life in a credible way.

And then hire some directors, and stay the hell away from the editing suite.

david75

I’m wondering if we’ll see Kylo take on an apprentice in 9. Pretty sure the knights of Ren will reappear. Perhaps he's training all of them, though they don’t seem to be force users in TFA. Well probably get Rey either early stages with a few padewans or if they do a significant time jump, an established acedemy.

There’ll probably be both given Rey and Kylo seem to be the two equal weights on both sides of the force scales.

david75

Frank Oz has joined twitter and he’s taking apart the more vocal angry fanbois. It’s a gas read

PhiloCypher

Tony EH wrote: »

I didn't think that was so great either.

I would have much preferred if Luke had actually appeared in person and not some astral projection nonsense.

It's a fake reunion. Plus, when he keeled over from using too much force, I laughed a bit. :pac: If was bloody stupid.

Plus how could Luke actually give Leia Solo's trinket from the Millennium Falcon, if he wasn't physically there?

Also wtf is with the dice in the first place, I get that they are meant to be Hans but I must have missed the scene where that was explicitly stated. Were they hanging from the rear view mirror on the falcon in TFA (taking up half the frame screaming remember me I'll be important later) and I just didnt notice, or is it a set up for the Solo Anthology film. Maybe it will end with him settling into the pilots seat on the recently won Millenium Falcon for the first time. He'll hang the dice putt his feet up and smirk contentedly .. end Credits .

david75

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Also wtf is with the dice in the first place, I get that they are meant to be Hans but I must have missed the scene where that was explicitly stated. Were they hanging from the rear view mirror on the falcon in TFA (taking up half the frame screaming remember me I'll be important later) and I just didnt notice, or is it a set up for the Solo Anthology film. Maybe it will end with him settling into the pilots seat on the recently won Millenium Falcon for the first time. He'll hang the dice putt his feet up and smirk contentedly .. end Credits .

They’re hanging in the cockpit. Luke takes them down. It’s a quick shot. They’re there in the OT too but blink and you miss em

Tony EH

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Also wtf is with the dice in the first place, I get that they are meant to be Hans but I must have missed the scene where that was explicitly stated. Were they hanging from the rear view mirror on the falcon in TFA (taking up half the frame screaming remember me I'll be important later) and I just didnt notice, or is it a set up for the Solo Anthology film. Maybe it will end with him settling into the pilots seat on the recently won Millenium Falcon for the first time. He'll hang the dice putt his feet up and smirk contentedly .. end Credits .

They were trinkets he had in the falcon in 'Star Wars'. Blink and you miss them.





Also, yes...expect some crap in 'Solo'.

david75

We see Luke give Leia the dice.

Then the last scene with kylo we see him pick them up off the floor. And disappear in his hands as Luke passes into the force.

Leia just dropped them there?

david75

Haha. Yep.

‘Man, I can't wait for all of those who are done with Star Wars after seeing The Last Jedi, to be done with Star Wars.’

oxygen

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Also wtf is with the dice in the first place, I get that they are meant to be Hans but I must have missed the scene where that was explicitly stated. Were they hanging from the rear view mirror on the falcon in TFA (taking up half the frame screaming remember me I'll be important later) and I just didnt notice, or is it a set up for the Solo Anthology film. Maybe it will end with him settling into the pilots seat on the recently won Millenium Falcon for the first time. He'll hang the dice putt his feet up and smirk contentedly .. end Credits .

As mentioned above, there in a quick shot in the original trilogy. I dont remember them either, but when Luke handed them to Leah, I assumed they were Hans. With with the chain binding them there reminded me of a pair of dice you'd hang from a mirror, which is why I thought they were from the falcon.

Also when they faded from Kylo Ren because they were an astral projection, it further imposed the idea on him that Han and Leah were just bad parents, transient in nature.

johnny_ultimate

At this stage, I just find it amusing how worked up people get about other people's opinions of a film. Frankly, if you resort to ad hominem attacks, generalised or specific, against those who disagree - whatever direction it may be, you're just undermining your own point. 'Other people' is a huge mass of diverse people: better to accept from the outset that you ain't going to agree with them all!

It's one thing politely debating someone about something you feel has been underexplained (or over explained as the case may be), but unless they're being completely unreasonable the best approach is to just respect what they have to say and know the limits of Internet debate (none of us are going to be majorly swayed, unless someone makes a really great ****ing argument). It just makes for better discussion. Stand your ground with enthusiasm, but getting wrapped up with what others think is a shortcut to hell.

I feel like I've signed off a few posts with this, but it's all I can think of when I see the online debate about this film devolve down to mere petty sniping: it's only bloody Star Wars at the end of the day

oxygen

I think its a great thing that its generating debate, I dont remember this amound of chat about "The Force Awakens", I dont remember any if I'm honest

Personally I loved it, but I can see why some hated it...

johnny_ultimate

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

At this stage, I just find it amusing how worked up people get about other people's opinions of a film. Frankly, if you resort to ad hominem attacks, generalised or specific, against those who disagree - whatever direction it may be, you're just undermining your own point. 'Other people' is a huge mass of diverse people: better to accept from the outset that you ain't going to agree with them all!

It's one thing politely debating someone about something you feel has been underexplained (or over explained as the case may be), but unless they're being completely unreasonable the best approach is to just respect what they have to say and know the limits of Internet debate (none of us are going to be majorly swayed, unless someone makes a really great ****ing argument). It just makes for better discussion. Stand your ground with enthusiasm, but getting wrapped up with what others think is a shortcut to hell.

I feel like I've signed off a few posts with this, but it's all I can think of when I see the online debate about this film devolve down to mere petty sniping: it's only bloody Star Wars at the end of the day

I don't agree with this. **** you

Mitch Connor

david75 wrote: »

I’m wondering if we’ll see Kylo take on an apprentice in 9. Pretty sure the knights of Ren will reappear. Perhaps he's training all of them, though they don’t seem to be force users in TFA. Well probably get Rey either early stages with a few padewans or if they do a significant time jump, an established acedemy.

There’ll probably be both given Rey and Kylo seem to be the two equal weights on both sides of the force scales.

Knights of Ren are other kids from the Academy aren't they? He killed some of those training and others went with him.

PhiloCypher

david75 wrote: »

Haha. Yep.

‘Man, I can't wait for all of those who are done with Star Wars after seeing The Last Jedi, to be done with Star Wars.’

Man, You really are the Keeper of the Whills when it comes to Star Wars aren't you David. Don't worry the thread will die off in a week or two and it will just be you and Tony squaring off again. Well at least until Solo comes out, then those annoying folks with opinions will decend upon you again . It's a hard life this Keeper of the Whills malarkey , I don't envy you .

johnpatrick81

Thread contributors post counts should be interesting. Some folk are actually discussing back and forth with themselves!

Looper007

Is the most popular thread in the film section ever. Got to be up there. It's fantastic read to see how some people see this film.

johnpatrick81

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

Thread contributors post counts should be interesting. Some folk are actually discussing back and forth with themselves!

david75 must be getting paid off

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=2057544429

Zubeneschamali

Looper007 wrote: »

Is the most popular thread in the film section ever.

The Force Awakens thread didn't even have a spoiler warning until after 4000, so it was bigger than this thread before the movie was even released, and it topped 6000 entries.

I see Tony EH and david75 both on the last page of that one :P

johnny_ultimate

David and Tony are, in no particular order, the Joker and Batman of this film forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVznaAGYZmA

Tony EH

I'm Batman.

Called it...