Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

david75

Verpiss dich wrote: »

How can you say that?
It may seem like a masterpiece by the time we have Solo A Star Wars Story and JJ Abrams Episode 9.:D

#notmyhan


Joking entirely. I’m looking forward to han. It’s probably gonna be a mindless blockbuster but perhaps that’s what people need after TLJ

Can’t wait til we get obi wan and it’s way outside any comfort zone. Can hear the screaming about it from here.

conorhal

david75 wrote: »

Johnson also said he was told ‘this is where we left off, this is where we need to end up. You can do whatever you like to get us there’.

There’s a map. You don’t make a multi billion dollar franchise as a trilogy without one. It’s stupid to assume otherwise. That’s not how films are made. Especially with ongoing stories.

Really? that must be why they reshot a third of Rouge one, 90% of Han Solo, fired three directors retroactively and one prophylacticly, because they have a plan. Yeah, like the DCU they have a plan.

http://www.slashfilm.com/rian-johnsons-star-wars-trilogy/
You might be surprised to learn that Disney and Lucasfilm committed to his new trilogy without a story in place.

So it's no surprise that a cake without a recipe is an inedible mess.

I'm shocked that Kathleen Kennedy still has a job.

falinn merking

conorhal wrote: »

So it's no surprise that a cake without a recipe is an inedible mess.
.

That can still work.

Eton Mess.

conorhal

Verpiss dich wrote: »

That can still work.

Eton Mess.

That was The Force Awakens, a jumble of stuff that you know already works together.

david75

conorhal wrote: »

Really? that must be why they reshot a third of Rouge one, 90% of Han Solo, fired three directors retroactively and one prophylacticly, because they have a plan. Yeah, like the DCU they have a plan.

http://www.slashfilm.com/rian-johnsons-star-wars-trilogy/
You might be surprised to learn that Disney and Lucasfilm committed to his new trilogy without a story in place.

So it's no surprise that a cake without a recipe is an inedible mess.

I'm shocked that Kathleen Kennedy still has a job.

5 days after release the force awakens had far less than the last Jedi has.

It looks like TLJ is breaking some records. Yeah keneddy is really screwing up

According to this: https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office- ... st-to-300m TFA is the fastest grossing to 300m at the domestic box office.

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

Right so I'm off to see this for the 2nd time tonight, I hope I find it has improved.

Right so, I still have the same complaints after seeing it the 2nd time, but could enjoy the parts I did really like more .

Finn Rose Story - still a waste of time.
Flying Leah - easier to ignore now, it lasts 10 seconds ... close your eyes.

Snoke - still the one thing that bothers me, but the whole throne room scene and the battle with the praetorian guards was amazing so it makes up.
Also, it's quite late in the film (approx 1h40) when Snoke is killed, for some reason I remembered it as about 30 mins in - weird how our sense of time in a movie can be skewed after only seeing it once.

And for everyone saying Rian Johnson didn't want it to be like the OT and have the big bad guy killed at the end of the 3rd film - well the method at least was very similar I thought - distraction, watching his apprentice - expecting him to kill the light side user - "Fullfill your destiny ...."

Anyway, I have faith in JJ Abrams that he can bring some other menace
for the third film.

Very good film, just not excellent like TFA.

conorhal

david75 wrote: »

5 days after release the force awakens had far less than the last Jedi has.

It looks like TLJ is breaking some records. Yeah keneddy is really screwing up

According to this: https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office- ... st-to-300m TFA is the fastest grossing to 300m at the domestic box office.

So we're stooping to opening weekend box office for credibility? Why can't Transformers or the Fast and Furious notch up an Oscar I ask myself.....

Interesting though is the number of reviewers that have refused to mark the film until a second viewing and even Disney reps have suggested that, ' to really get it, you need to see it twice!'

Funny that.

Hector Savage

Drumpot wrote: »

Heard an interesting discussion about Rey’s backstory. If her parents were just drunk nobodies selling her off , then the scene in TFA where the kid is screaming at her parents leaving her is quite brutal!

I also heard that there is an interesting story for Luke’s fishing techniques. Oh and did people know that Yoda sort of became an apprentice to Qui Gon on degoba?

Didn't Yoda mention to Obi Wan that Qui Gon will communicate with him as a force ghost on Tatoine ? - in ROTS I think.

Where did you read/see that Yoda was an apprentice to Qui Gon ? I thought Yoda trained him.

Osmosis Jones

conorhal wrote: »

So we're stooping to opening weekend box office for credibility?

Well you did say

conorhal wrote: »

I'm shocked that Kathleen Kennedy still has a job.

So it makes sense to bring up the box office numbers.

falinn merking

Hector Savage wrote: »

Didn't Yoda mention to Obi Wan that Qui Gon will communicate with him as a force ghost on Tatoine ? - in ROTS I think.

Where did you read/see that Yoda was an apprentice to Qui Gon ? I thought Yoda trained him.

No Yoda trained Dooku and Dooku trained Qui Gon.
How can you forget this stuff from the best Star Wars movie ever Attack of the Clowns.;)

fluke

One of the weirder, and strangely poignant, videos out there regarding this whole thing.

Osmosis Jones

fluke wrote: »

One of the weirder, and strangely poignant, videos out there regarding this whole thing.

YouTube channel name: Fundamental Disappointment

Channel creation date: December 15th, TLJ release date.

david75

Verpiss dich wrote: »

No Yoda trained Dooku and Dooku trained Qui Gon.
How can you forget this stuff from the best Star Wars movie ever Attack of the Clowns.;)

Qui Gon is the first Jedi to learn how to manifest in the force after death. Also the first Jedi to learn how to commune with those last and choose his moment to pass into the force and

He teaches Yoda how to do this.

This is what you see Yoda telling obi wan he has something for him to study and learn at the end of revenge of the sith.

From the comics we learn Luke has obi wans journals. He presumably learned the ability from them.

conorhal

fluke wrote: »

One of the weirder, and strangely poignant, videos out there regarding this whole thing.

It says it all really, A New Hope? That ends in fractured families, patricide, matricide, memes and failure. Perhaps a better title for the new trilogy might have been A New Disappointment, because that's 'progressive' I guess, what we really wanted from Starwars, was surely, less.

conorhal

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Well you did say



So it makes sense to bring up the box office numbers.

About as much as it does to comment only only on half a post.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

That Youtube video is brilliant!

Osmosis Jones

conorhal wrote: »

About as much as it does to comment only only on half a post.

But you do understand why he posted the box office numbers

conorhal

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

But you do understand why he posted the box office numbers

Explain it to me, slowly clearly.

Osmosis Jones

conorhal wrote: »

Explain it to me, slowly clearly.

You said something, he retorted like a normal person, and now you're acting obtuse and antagonistic.

charlie_says

Overall I did not like it. Some great Star Wars space battle moments but far too many wtf plot holes and crap humor. New characters are so so at best. Dialog was really awful too. Bubblegum sci fi in a Star Wars veneer. I liked the first half of TFA but this was a bit all over the place.

Most disappointing thing is that I went to see it after saying that I wouldn't. Curiosity is worth a couple of hundred million dollars to the franchise at this point.

B.A._Baracus

What ever happened to the Knights of ren? Thought they were other students that joined Ben Solo when he turned against Luke / the whole burning of the jedi school?

Osmosis Jones

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

What ever happened to the Knights of ren? Thought they were other students that joined Ben Solo when he turned against Luke / the whole burning of the jedi school?

Luke says that Kylo murdered some of the students and took the rest of them with him, the assumption is that the ones he took are the knights. I'm not sure we'll hear about them much in the movies, there'll probably be some EU stuff on them. They seemed like a bit of an afterthought put in by JJ because they sound cool.

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

Johnson also said he was told ‘this is where we left off, this is where we need to end up. You can do whatever you like to get us there’.

There’s a map. You don’t make a multi billion dollar franchise as a trilogy without one. It’s stupid to assume otherwise. That’s not how films are made. Especially with ongoing stories.

Why did Luke create a map to where he was hiding? Why make such an elaborate treasure trail when he clearly had no interest in seeing anyone and just wanted to die on Ahch-To?

There is no over-arching structure to this trilogy. JJ set up some questions and new characters and each director can pick and choose which questions they want to answer and where they want the characters to go. We are fortunate Rian smashed together parts of Empire and Jedi into The Last Jedi, thereby forcing JJ to make something relatively new, or at least something that can't really copy Jedi, like he did with TFA and A New Hope.

Osmosis Jones

Falthyron wrote: »

Why did Luke create a map to where he was hiding? Why make such an elaborate treasure trail when he clearly had no interest in seeing anyone and just wanted to die on Ahch-To?

I don't think Luke made a map to where he was hiding, I think they knew he was hiding in the Jedi Temple, they just didn't know where that was, and they knew a map to the temple existed somewhere.

B.A._Baracus

Falthyron wrote: »

There is no over-arching structure to this trilogy. JJ set up some questions and new characters and each director can pick and choose which questions they want to answer and where they want the characters to go. We are fortunate Rian smashed together parts of Empire and Jedi into The Last Jedi, thereby forcing JJ to make something relatively new, or at least something that can't really copy Jedi, like he did with TFA and A New Hope.

Let's be realistic, Disney created a direction when making the force awakens. Bullet points if you will for the trilogy.

But nothing is set in stone until the sequel is made.
Only my two cents but if you take the force awakens and see what it sets up.... And what last jedi delivers with... There was a change of plan.

This is an billion dollar franchise. No one is gonna make a movie and worry about the sequel later. It would be like building a mansion with no idea on how many rooms it will have etc.

TerrorFirmer

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Luke says that Kylo murdered some of the students and took the rest of them with him, the assumption is that the ones he took are the knights. I'm not sure we'll hear about them much in the movies, there'll probably be some EU stuff on them. They seemed like a bit of an afterthought put in by JJ because they sound cool.

I hope we do. The whole setup is quite strange. It would be such a cop out for them not to be mentioned again, though that would surely require Abram's to ignore his own script in TFA?

They could be training elsewhere or carrying out another function, though it is strange for them to receive almost no mention in TLJ either way unless Johnson has decided that they're 'has been's rather than up and coming in the trilogy (in a narrative sense, not necessarily plot).

Hard to know how the force vision ties into it all - that was evidently a flashback and not a premonition as Ren still has his mask, though there's always the consideration that Johnson's script just ignores the parts of TFA that aren't important to it's own story e.g it may have been written as a premonition in TFA.

As one of the biggest film trilogies in the history of cinema you would imagine there absolutely has to be massive collusion on the scripts to ensure they all interlock perfectly despite being penned by different people.

Drumpot

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

I'm confused, are we upset that Disney have too much creative control or are we now upset that they don't have enough control?

No, it’s becauee Lucas wrote the script or he directed it or that he sold the franchise even though people were accusing him of ruining it or that he made the prequels or that Disney bought it or that Disney chose as JJ director or that they brought back characters for fan service or didn’t bring back some characters or brought these characters back and they had changed or that they had too many female characters or because they didn’t have back stories for some characters or they deviated from the force or they or the writing was bad or the story was bad or it was too like the originals or it wasn’t consistent with the originals or ..........

That’s a lot of baggage people have taken into the movie before even judging it as a movie on its own!

Saruhashi

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Do I believe there's probably a few unscrupulous reviewers and cheeky corporations out there? Sure, most likely, and there's definitely a few publications I don't take very seriously when it comes to the old reviews stake.

Do I think there has been some mass campaign, across multiple territories, to pay dozens and dozens of critics to give the Last Jedi good reviews - with everyone from The New York Times to Matt Zoller Seitz; Sight & Sound to Film Comment; Indiewire to The Sunday Business Post buying in? Absolutely not: I think it's a preposterous, incredible conspiracy theory, and will continue to believe that unless provided with substantive, credible evidence to the contrary. I mean, I don't even know why the **** Disney would need to do it in the first place with the safest box office bet in cinema.

And ultimately, I liked the film and have read multiple reviews / analyses that correspond well to my own view of the film - which, of course, means I don't find it particularly difficult to see where many critics are coming from

Yeah, I don't really buy into the idea that Disney paid for positive reviews. It's a bit too conspiratorial for me.

As you say, there are plenty of reasonable positive reviews out there. I don't personally agree but I think that should be OK too. I don't think my objections to the movie are that far away from what plenty of others have said.

I can understand why people liked the movie and I get that sometimes people are just going to disagree. Apparently Cinemascore is a good gauge of audience reactions and The Last Jedi has an A rating there. Just like Transformers - Dark of the Moon and Jurassic World got A ratings. I didn't like either of those.

Clearly the movie has lots to like, that's fine. It certainly has lots to dislike also. That's fine too. I'd give it a 5 or 6 out of 10 for that reason.

What doesn't sit right with me is when an outlet runs an extremely positive review of a movie and then a few days later is running what is basically a hit-piece on the "toxic" fandom. (Some of) The Fans don't like the movie so lets imply they are just a bunch of "trolls".

When you're seeing references to MAGA hats and the alt-right and Gamergate in articles about people who are down-voting the new Star Wars then something is seriously wrong there.

It's starting to feel like some movies are best ignored because criticizing them will see you sent to the naughty step. Either say good things or say nothing.

Loads and loads of little digs about how fans who like the OT but don't like this must be a bit thick. Building up the false dichotomy that TFA played it safe and TLJ took risks so if you don't like either you are a hypocrite.

It's mental to see people rejoicing that fans who didn't like the movie are being "owned".

Worst of all is seeing folks trawl the internet looking for racist or sexist comments from people who hated the movie (and probably hate quite a bit more than just movies) and sort of implying that "these are the kind of people who don't like The Last Jedi".

I'm not even on Twitter so if some nobody with 3 followers has a problem with the ethnicity or gender of the cast in the movie then I don't see what that has to do with someone like me who doesn't like the film because of character, plot and tonal issues.

It's almost certainly not intentional but Disney and Lucasfilm must be rubbing their hands together when they see that people are willing to step up and defend their movies in this way.

Sabre0001

Disney don't really need to buy positive reviews. At this stage, it's so big and controls so much that the threat of revoking access would be enough! It's like when Bill Gates "buys out" Homer in The Simpsons - Disney isn't getting richer by writing cheques

Not saying this is happening, of course. Reviews are subjective and as some of them have pointed out, this is a divisive film.

Drumpot

Saruhashi wrote: »

Yeah, I don't really buy into the idea that Disney paid for positive reviews. It's a bit too conspiratorial for me.

As you say, there are plenty of reasonable positive reviews out there. I don't personally agree but I think that should be OK too. I don't think my objections to the movie are that far away from what plenty of others have said.

I can understand why people liked the movie and I get that sometimes people are just going to disagree. Apparently Cinemascore is a good gauge of audience reactions and The Last Jedi has an A rating there. Just like Transformers - Dark of the Moon and Jurassic World got A ratings. I didn't like either of those.

Clearly the movie has lots to like, that's fine. It certainly has lots to dislike also. That's fine too. I'd give it a 5 or 6 out of 10 for that reason.

What doesn't sit right with me is when an outlet runs an extremely positive review of a movie and then a few days later is running what is basically a hit-piece on the "toxic" fandom. (Some of) The Fans don't like the movie so lets imply they are just a bunch of "trolls".

When you're seeing references to MAGA hats and the alt-right and Gamergate in articles about people who are down-voting the new Star Wars then something is seriously wrong there.

It's starting to feel like some movies are best ignored because criticizing them will see you sent to the naughty step. Either say good things or say nothing.

Loads and loads of little digs about how fans who like the OT but don't like this must be a bit thick. Building up the false dichotomy that TFA played it safe and TLJ took risks so if you don't like either you are a hypocrite.

It's mental to see people rejoicing that fans who didn't like the movie are being "owned".

Worst of all is seeing folks trawl the internet looking for racist or sexist comments from people who hated the movie (and probably hate quite a bit more than just movies) and sort of implying that "these are the kind of people who don't like The Last Jedi".

I'm not even on Twitter so if some nobody with 3 followers has a problem with the ethnicity or gender of the cast in the movie then I don't see what that has to do with someone like me who doesn't like the film because of character, plot and tonal issues.

It's almost certainly not intentional but Disney and Lucasfilm must be rubbing their hands together when they see that people are willing to step up and defend their movies in this way.

I think it’s more an insecurity among fans on both sides, particularly those angrily arguing it’s amazing or awful. Most fans are just happy to keep it to themselves if they enjoyed it. Clearly the box office numbers are suggesting the negative backlash from some corners hasn’t slowed things down yet... these forums can become echo chambers where people support those who agree with them and post links to “evidence” that supports them.

Box office numbers don’t imply it’s a good movie either, only that the studio managed to make a movie that appealed to a wider audience which is it’s primary goal. You don’t have to like it but If you can accept that fact(instead of being angry that Disney own the rights before even going into the movie!) I think it makes it easier to accept bits you might not like and just enjoy the bits you do like.