Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Sad Professor

I'm guessing I'm all alone in this, but I really liked Leia's "Mary Poppins in space" scene. I mean, dammit, we get to see Leia use the Force! And in a way that makes sense. It's a life and death moment, if ever she's going to use it, this is it. It's also nice to see someone use the Force for something other than attack or throwing things (see also Luke at the end). And it fits in well with TFA and TLJ's theme that the Force isn't just for Jedis, something that got lost post-ANH.

It's also very Gilliam-esque, especially in its willingness to draw on rather unpopular iconography. In this case, Mary Poppins, who isn't cool with boys to say the least, but in a trilogy that is clearly trying to tell a story that will also appeal to the other 50 percent of the population, I think it works well. Notice also the change in Leia's costume from TFA, much more regal and feminine, less militaristic.

Is it a bit silly and goofy? Sure, but Star Wars has never been afraid of being accused of either of those things, no reason it should start now. I liked Rogue One's more serious and gritty take on Star Wars, but it's not the Star Wars I grew up with.

Zubeneschamali

Sad Professor wrote: »

It's also very Gilliam-esque, especially in its willingness to draw on rather unpopular iconography. In this case, Mary Poppins

Just to note that over at Marvel, they just recently made a much, much better Mary Poppins reference in GotG2.

david75

Sad Professor wrote: »

I'm guessing I'm all alone in this, but I really liked Leia's "Mary Poppins in space" scene. I mean, dammit, we get to see Leia use the Force! And in a way that makes sense. It's a life and death moment, if ever she's going to use it, this is it. It's also nice to see someone use the Force for something other than attack or throwing things (see also Luke at the end). And it fits in well with TFA and TLJ's theme that the Force isn't just for Jedis, something that got lost post-ANH.

It's also very Gilliam-esque, especially in its willingness to draw on rather unpopular iconography. In this case, Mary Poppins, who isn't cool with boys to say the least, but in a trilogy that is clearly trying to tell a story that will also appeal to the other 50 percent of the population, I think it works well. Notice also the change in Leia's costume from TFA, much more regal and feminine, less militaristic.

Is it a bit silly and goofy? Sure, but Star Wars has never been afraid of being accused of either of those things, no reason it should start now. I liked Rogue One's more serious and gritty take on Star Wars, but it's not the Star Wars I grew up with.

It’s totally fine and has in universe basis. Watching it again she senses they’re about to get hit and takes a deep breath then it happens.
The in universe explanation is force users can create a coccoon around themselves to protect from such an attack.
Watching it closely just as she wakes you see motes and Debris around her move suddenly in different directions. It’s either the force coming to save her or her own inate ability saving her as a natural reaction.
And it’s not unreasonable to sssume she’s had some training off Luke at some point.

All that to say the depiction of it is just off. It’s nothing like as shocking and wtf on firther viewings but the choice to depict it that way is just baffling.

david75

This should be a good listen

https://twitter.com/philszostak/status/943305385363906561

oxygen

I liked seeing Lea use the force, we havent see that before.

Also I like seeing the force being used for something else other than slightly moving light objects that probably could have been reached anyway.

Tony EH

Sad Professor wrote: »

I'm guessing I'm all alone in this, but I really liked Leia's "Mary Poppins in space" scene. I mean, dammit, we get to see Leia use the Force! And in a way that makes sense. It's a life and death moment, if ever she's going to use it, this is it. It's also nice to see someone use the Force for something other than attack or throwing things (see also Luke at the end). And it fits in well with TFA and TLJ's theme that the Force isn't just for Jedis, something that got lost post-ANH.

It's also very Gilliam-esque, especially in its willingness to draw on rather unpopular iconography. In this case, Mary Poppins, who isn't cool with boys to say the least, but in a trilogy that is clearly trying to tell a story that will also appeal to the other 50 percent of the population, I think it works well. Notice also the change in Leia's costume from TFA, much more regal and feminine, less militaristic.

Is it a bit silly and goofy? Sure, but Star Wars has never been afraid of being accused of either of those things, no reason it should start now. I liked Rogue One's more serious and gritty take on Star Wars, but it's not the Star Wars I grew up with.

It looks awful though. And why do we need to see Leia use the farce? It's arguably less damaging to the film, if that whole scene isn't there.

Also, 'Rogue One' was much closer to "the Star Wars I grew up with" than anything else I've seen since 1999.

Zubeneschamali

Tony EH wrote: »

'Rogue One' was much closer to "the Star Wars I grew up with" than anything else I've seen since 1999.

Well, yes, but Rogue One is literally a filmed version of the opening crawl from the original Star Wars, made to stop precisely where that movie started, and featuring characters and the iconic original Death Star as well as concepts like Vader's house made for the OT but never used.

Even so, some people complained that it was too dark compared to the OT, and each original touch was disliked by parts of the audience.

Tony EH

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Well, yes, but Rogue One is literally a filmed version of the opening crawl from the original Star Wars, made to stop precisely where that movie started, and featuring characters and the iconic original Death Star as well as concepts like Vader's house made for the OT but never used.

Even so, some people complained that it was too dark compared to the OT, and each original touch was disliked by parts of the audience.

I've never found the OT to be the goofball jokefest that some claim it to though. Sure 'Return of the Jedi' has light moments. But the first two are dramas to me, first and foremost. I've never found them particularly laced with levity. In fact 'Return of the Jedi' can feel a little off when they're watched back to back.

To me Edwards captured the feel of Star Wars perfectly. I'd really like to see him helm another one, particular a Vader film. Never going to happen though.

In any case, I've found 'Rogue One' to be the most rewarding of any Star Wars film since 1983. It gets better on multiple viewings and it actually adds to the OT in a significant way too.

fryup

has anyone mentioned lightspeed yet?

they've ruined the whole concept of lightspeed

lightspeed shouldn't be used as a weapon...it should only be used for emergency transportation.....so what about all the other times they've used lightpeed?? how come that they never crashed into anything on those occasions :cool:

pumpkin4life

Rogue One has its flaws but at the very least it's not a scene for scene remake of a far superior movie (Episode 7) or a subversion lazy rewrite of a whole universe where nothing makes sense anymore; the core ideas and the main characters are butchered (Episode 8) for a few crappy social commentary points to make some people feel smarter than they actually are.

It actually tries its own thing and actually feels like a Star Wars movie. And it's tonally consistent! Probably the best film outside the original trilogy to be honest.

Not that that's saying much though.

Zubeneschamali

Tony EH wrote: »

I've found 'Rogue One' to be the most rewarding of any Star Wars film since 1983.

I was delighted coming out of Rogue One, i thought is was terrific, especially the second half. Even the muddled first half had some brilliant scenes.

There was some WTF stuff in there like the mind reading slimetapus, but nothing jumped off the screen and yelled WRONG at me.

RotJ did that several times first time I saw it in the cinema. I was pretty disgusted with it, but over time, the things it got right made me like it better, and I just mentally sigh at the missteps.

Osmosis Jones

Idk how people can say TFA is a lazy remake but Rogue One is a new and original story when everything that happens in that movie is already known to have happened before the movie was made. Also the characters are so ridiculously forgettable.

Sad Professor

Tony EH wrote: »

I've never found the OT to be the goofball jokefest that some claim it to though. Sure 'Return of the Jedi' has light moments. But the first two are dramas to me, first and foremost. I've never found them particularly laced with levity. In fact 'Return of the Jedi' can feel a little off when they're watched back to back.

To me Edwards captured the feel of Star Wars perfectly. I'd really like to see him helm another one, particular a Vader film. Never going to happen though.

In any case, I've found 'Rogue One' to be the most rewarding of any Star Wars film since 1983. It gets better on multiple viewings and it actually adds to the OT in a significant way too.

The OT are dramas? I don't agree. They were always lighthearted, poppy adventures to me. Empire is darker but without sacrificing the fun or the humour. It's easily the funniest film of the OT, none of which were as gritty and serious as Rogue One, which again I really liked. I think there's room for different takes on Star Wars.

Sad Professor

fryup wrote: »

has anyone mentioned lightspeed yet?

they've ruined the whole concept of lightspeed

lightspeed shouldn't be used as a weapon...it should only be used for emergency transportation.....so what about all the other times they've used lightpeed?? how come that they never crashed into anything on those occasions :cool:

Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! :pac:

kerplun k

Sad Professor wrote: »

I'm guessing I'm all alone in this, but I really liked Leia's "Mary Poppins in space" scene. I mean, dammit, we get to see Leia use the Force! And in a way that makes sense. It's a life and death moment, if ever she's going to use it, this is it. It's also nice to see someone use the Force for something other than attack or throwing things (see also Luke at the end). And it fits in well with TFA and TLJ's theme that the Force isn't just for Jedis, something that got lost post-ANH.

It's also very Gilliam-esque, especially in its willingness to draw on rather unpopular iconography. In this case, Mary Poppins, who isn't cool with boys to say the least, but in a trilogy that is clearly trying to tell a story that will also appeal to the other 50 percent of the population, I think it works well. Notice also the change in Leia's costume from TFA, much more regal and feminine, less militaristic.

Is it a bit silly and goofy? Sure, but Star Wars has never been afraid of being accused of either of those things, no reason it should start now. I liked Rogue One's more serious and gritty take on Star Wars, but it's not the Star Wars I grew up with.

In the words of Han Solo,
"that's not how the force works"

But seriously, I didn't actually mind it too much either, I just felt at that point the film was struggling a bit, but boy, did it recover well.

Osmosis Jones

At worst the Leia moment is an ugly 10 second long scene, it doesn't ruin the movie.

fluke

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

At worst the Leia moment is an ugly 10 second long scene, it doesn't ruin the movie.

No...there are many 10 second blips in the movie, that compounded, ruin the movie.

Osmosis Jones

not for me i guess

server down

Saruhashi wrote: »

I'm actually a bit confused as I've seen a few articles speculating that the negative reviews are due to trolls or bots etc but there's a really, really easy way to check this for yourself.

The Force Awakens
93% from 378 critics.
88% from 224,235 users.

The Last Jedi
93% from 313 critics.
55% from 114,675 users.

A 3.5 rating is required for a ""liked it" user review by the way.

As it stands the idea that the audience irrationally hates Star Wars just because it's Star Wars doesn't stand up because the audience score for Episode VII is very good. People seemed to love that movie.

It's also worth noting that TFA has almost twice as many individual user reviews. If there was some kind of "review bombing" campaign in process you'd expect to see unusually massive numbers of reviews for TLJ.

(for reference, Justice League currently has 117,402 user reviews @ 79% and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 has 103,836 user reviews @88%, Batman v Superman has 230,003 user reviews @63% and Captain America; Civil War has 175,030 user reviews @89%)

Maybe it is just trolls and I am missing some huge thing when I look at these figures. Out of those 114,675 user scores you'd need 25 to 30% of them to be troll scores to bring the overall rating down significantly (assuming that non trolls are giving it a 3.5 rating 80+% of the time).

I saw people citing Cinemascore and pointing out The Last Jedi has an "A" on there and that is a better gauge of audience reactions.

Cinemascore for Transformers - Dark of the Moon = A
Cinemascore for Tyler Perrys Boo 2, A Madea Halloween = A-
Cinemascore for Jurassic World = A

Note: This is not intended as "proof" that the movie is bad. If you think it's good then it's good. Fine.

The point of this is not to comment on the movie. It is to show how the, apparently quite popular, idea that the user score is so low because of some coordinated troll attack simply does not add up.

Not so fast.

Firstly the number of user reviews for this movie is clearly fairly high given the fewer days it has been out.

Secondly it does look like there’s a disconnect between most users and the antis. In fact there’s a lot of 4-5 stars and then 30% are 1/2 [half] stars (the minimum) by people who clearly don’t like the direction of the movie. Most of these comments are not criticising the movie as a movie but the “killed my childhood”, “not really Star Wars” changes in it.

Meanwhile the cinemascore rankings do tend to be favourable for many movies because the people leaving already did choose to see those movies. However for a very large blockbuster which attracts the multitudes then it’s going to be more accurate because there will be plenty of casual fans or occasional movie goers. What we get from this is that critics and normal movie goers like the movie and there’s a few who hate it and are over represented on RT.

fluke

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

not for me i guess

I'm sorry. Sincerely. That was a bit too snarky of me for my liking.

Just conflicted on this one...didn't think I still cared about Star Wars as much as I do

I just hope contextually (post Ep 9) that my view of TLJ will soften...

Sad Professor

fluke wrote: »

I'm sorry. Sincerely. That was a bit too snarky of me for my liking.

Just conflicted on this one...didn't think I still cared about Star Wars as much as I do

I just hope contextually (post Ep 9) that my view of TLJ will soften...

I'm sure it will. Just look at how much people's view of TFA has softened. I recall having to defend that one as well...

A Little Pony

The Rose character is getting a pasting all over the internet. Was she just put in for some quota for PC reasons or something? Far too many characters in the name who brought nothing or had no context to them.

py2006

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Rose character is getting a pasting all over the internet. Was she just put in for some quota for PC reasons or something?.

Yes

Osmosis Jones

Yeah they included one Asian character in the movie there must be an A G E N D A

david75

I really liked Rose just for being an ordinary person caught up in the madness around her. It’s exactly what happens to Luke in a way and Finn too.

It’s appallihg the abuse and vitriol the actress is being sent for it. Really disgusting.

Grayditch

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Rose character is getting a pasting all over the internet. Was she just put in for some quota for PC reasons or something? Far too many characters in the name who brought nothing or had no context to them.

These posts are painful.

Saruhashi

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Rose character is getting a pasting all over the internet. Was she just put in for some quota for PC reasons or something? Far too many characters in the name who brought nothing or had no context to them.

Nah. I am sure the character was written before they did any casting.

It's not really fair on the actress that this "PC" angle gets brought up. It's really kind of sad.

I could think of worse performances in Star Wars by more established actors.

I think articles like this do not help anyone though - https://www.wired.com/story/star-wars-last-jedi-inclusion/

That's basically waving a red rag in front of trolls.

Nevermind about low RT scores, this is the actual worst of the worst when it comes to fandom.

Sad Professor

The ‘Alt-Right’ Claims Credit For ‘Last Jedi’ Backlash

If you are Disney, these are not the “Last Jedi” ratings you’re looking for.

A Facebook page called Down With Disney’s Treatment of Franchises and its Fanboys is claiming responsibility for tanking the Rotten Tomatoes audience score for the latest “Star Wars” film, alleging that it used bots in a concerted attack against the Rian Johnson-directed movie.

On Tuesday, we sent a direct message to the page, whose moderator responded almost immediately. He explained that he’s upset with “Star Wars” producers for, “among other things,” introducing more female characters into the franchise’s universe.

Throughout the course of our conversation, the self-identified member of the “alt-right” claimed that Poe Dameron (played by Oscar Isaac) is a “victim of the anti-mansplaining movement,” that Poe and Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) are in danger of being “turn[ed]” gay, and that men should be reinstated as rulers of “society.”

Osmosis Jones

If you watch a movie and question the casting decisions every time a non-white person shows up on screen then you've got bigger issues than not liking the new Star Wars movie.

pixelburp

david75 wrote: »

I really liked Rose just for being an ordinary person caught up in the madness around her. It’s exactly what happens to Luke in a way and Finn too.

It’s appallihg the abuse and vitriol the actress is being sent for it. Really disgusting.

Precisely: it was crazy to think that EIGHT movies into Star Wars and we've only just got our first 'ordinary' person as a main character. She desperately needed better writing next time around though, but coasted by on charisma and energy.

And yes, the abuse being sent her way is ludicrous; for all the cries of 'PC' this & that, I've never once seen a single, coherent reason why this is a bad thing. As in an actual quantifiable explanation why some token diversity - however cynical or deliberate it might be - in a fictional drama affects the story or consumer in a negative fashion. Just seems like a knee-jerk reaction over something different from the norm.