Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

And everyone knows rogue one is an ill begotten whelp of one sentence in the opening crawl of Star Wars. It’s in no way entirely it’s own film.

Of course it is.

Just because it was instigated by the original Star Wars crawl doesn't make it not its own film. By "its own film", I mean that it isn't trying to reboot a franchise in the way that 'The Force Awakens' was.

Of course, as an episode in a series of films and a prequel to boot, it's going to have to blend in with it's immediate follow up. But that can be said for every film in the entire series.

david75 wrote: »

it’s already being totally forgotten and lost in the midst of the new films and will further disappear once Solo arrives.

That's codswallop.

Drumpot

david75 wrote: »

Watch it again closely.
He doesn’t shoot on Leia. Then his two wingmen shoot on her.
He immediately bumps the ship on the right into an oncoming blaster shot and it gets blown up.

Still cares about mamma no matter what.

But he kept it from The snokester. Reminds me of Palps not sensing Vader forceapping Luke!

Also, do you think Luke knew it was Snoke linking Rey/Kylo when he walked in on them spinning the bottle?

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

Of course it is.

Just because it was instigated by the original Star Wars crawl doesn't make it not its own film. By "its own film", I mean that it isn't trying to reboot a franchise in the way that 'The Force Awakens' was.

Of course, as an episode in a series of films and a prequel to boot, it's going to have to blend in with it's immediate follow up. But that can be said for every film in the entire series.



That's codswallop.

Here’s codswallop. Worst most embarrassing line in ALL Star Wars

‘What’s your call sign??’

‘Uuuggghh duuuhhhh uggghuughh ‘

‘Say something!’

‘Rogue One’


Someone please shoot whoever let that abomination near a script never mind allowing it onscreen.

Abysmal unforgiveable crap

JohnFalstaff

Hot take: As the second film in the new Star Wars sandbox, Rogue One = Empire, and, as a corollary, The Last Jedi = Return of the Jedi.
As you were.

david75

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

Hot take: As the second film in the new Star Wars sandbox, Rogue One = Empire, and, as a corollary, The Last Jedi = Return of the Jedi.
As you were.

Eh no. They have no relationship whatsoever even or especially in terms of quality. But as you were.


*Han trailer is dropping next week it seems. It’s a gangster movie apparently. Yay.

tony stark

david75 wrote: »

Here’s codswallop. Worst most embarrassing line in ALL Star Wars

‘What’s your call sign??’

‘Uuuggghh duuuhhhh uggghuughh ‘

‘Say something!’

‘Rogue One’


Someone please shoot whoever let that abomination near a script never mind allowing it onscreen.

Abysmal unforgiveable crap

I think the worst line in any Star Wars movie(in my opinion)may have been the prank call line from Poe to Hux in TLJ. Lovely the way he booked ended it with a 'yo momma' joke.
I hear Roy Schneider was a ghost writer on Poe and Finns lines though so maybe blame him. Also was it Carrie Fishers last request be that they make the the Poe and Finn Coke heads? Just like the two lads at a party that can't handle the gameplay so they make crap wisecracks all night to make up for their emptiness. Two completely empty characters, Finn and Poe. Can't wait for their new spin off "chuckle brothers in space".

PhiloCypher

Only really finding the time to put my thoughts on the film down on paper now a week on. This will be TLDR for the ages

Its a flawed film. I suppose the best way to describe it is I like it about as much as its possible to like a film thats built on status quo I just don't buy. I don't buy that the New Republic, after decisively defeating the Empire and banishing them to backwater planets on the outer rim, would disarm to the degree that one attack on its core system takes out its entire military arm to the point it only has one Mon Cal cruiser and a couple of Frigates to call on. But accepting that thats sadly the premise they are running with it was about as good as could be expected.

I'll start with the bad and end with the good

I have serious issues with Poe in this film. The film opens up with Poe (the real Mary Sue of these films so far), in yet another example of them flogging us on the idea he is a **** hot pilot, taking out every point defence turbolaser on the surface of a First Order dreadnought, opening the way, or so he thinks, for a bombing run from what I assume are B wings. If I remember correctly the character was only meant to play a small part or indeed die in TFA but due to them having an actor of the caliber of Oscar Isaac in the role they decided to expand it, and thats what it feels like, a character promoted beyond his station, cluttering up an already cluttered film. With new and old casts to service in this film the last thing this film needed was another male lead character. He's basically just a character of traits , we know he's a **** hot pilot because they keep on hammering us over the head with it, in a much more egregious manner then anything they've done with Rey imo. We also know he's a trouble maker and a scoundrelly scoundrel because we're told that at least 3 different times in this movie , incase we'd somehow missed it the first time. Another issue I have is the hamminess of Isaac's performance, I haven't seen that much ham on the screen since Babe 2: pig in the city . Its like they told Finn to dial it down a notch and Poe to twist the dial right off.

The Luke Rey stuff was decent but turning such a potentially potent moment as Luke having his fathers old lightsaber returned to him used for a cheap laugh was absolutely criminal and one of many tone deaf comedy interludes in this film. As for the rest of the island scenes , while bizarre on first viewing Lukes eccentric behaviour I can just about buy if we're meant to believe he is testing Rey's temperament and patience like Yoda did with him . Still its one thing to see a strange little alien jedi master acting the bollix and another to see Luke milk a sea cow.

The slowest chase scene ever, so slow Finn and Rose can slink off to a casino planet for a night and still get back in time(made the universe seem tiny imo). I know they couldn't throw an astroid belt in there to make it more interesting as the franchise has been there and done that .. twice, but I think they should have done a BSG "33" and have them be able to make a series of jumps losing a few more ships every time the First order catch up , just to make it more visually interesting then what we got.

The Canto bright Interlude :I can see what they are trying to do with here but its just too long and doesn't service the right characters. As I've posted previously here, the film would have been better served by having Poe join Finn on Canto instead of Rose, the everyman(&woman) wisdom she drops on Finn about how the rich profit from war while the poor suffer could just as easily have been espoused by Finn(who for all we know comes from just as humble beginnings as Rose). Having them together would have served to earn the bromance the writers are so keen to push (despite them only knowing eachother a week at most in in universe time), while also allowing Haldo and Leia to do more with their scenes then swoon at what a dashing troublemaker Poe is as he conspires to f**k up all their plans.

The strongest scenes in the movie by far are the Kylo/Rey force skype scenes and the Throne room scene they lead too. One of the few subversions I like in this film is that in this film we essentially see Rey taking the road not taken by Luke in ESB in joining Kylo/Vader in confronting and destroying the emperor/Snoke. Whether that was the plan going in or not, that was the result and certainly a parallel the writers were aiming for. The way Kylo used Snokes Hubris to camoflauge his treasonous moves was the best part of the movie for me. It does however leave the First Order in a fairly precarious position imo. Neither Hux or Kylo strike me as strategic thinkers . The former is emasculated in the films opening scene and the latter is far too unstable to lead an empire. Maybe if they introduced a Grand Admiral Thrawn type character I could believe the First Order could consolidate its gains but as things stand I have no faith in their command structure.

Finally we have the siege of Crait. A few things, I was expecting a cannon that size to blow a hole an AT AT could walk through not something the size of a hall door. Also what was Rians reasoning behind not having Luke actually physically turn up on Crait. He could have served the exact same function. Touching scene with Leia, takes out an AT AT with the force, tries to reason with Kylo(something he sadly doesn't do in the film) and eventually sacrifices himself Obi wan style when he see's the falcon fly off . As it stands it just seems like a twist for a twist sake to have the reveal that he in fact never left the island.

Overall its about a 6.5-7 for me

py2006

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SsTZGffE8A

IncognitoMan

Seen it today and I can understand the audience split. I'm probably not going to be saying anything new at this point from reading through the thread.

It's very dull in around the middle. I was flat out bored for decent amounts of it after what I thought was a great opening.

Bad:
Didn't like the way Luke died.

Didn't like the way Snoke died. (seriously wasted)

Didn't like that Leia spends a large chunk of the movie in a coma. Unless there's some other reason this was done that I'm not aware of.

Had absolutely no interest in the Finn and Rose story and then it just amounted to nothing.

Thought Benicio Del Toro's character was terrible. He said some interesting stuff about there being no real good or bad side but it was dragged down by a ham fisted performance.

Good:
Some of the scenes where they are actually fighting in space are unbelievable.

The sequence with Rey and Kylo fighting all the guards in the room.

The scene where the ship is driven through the main First Order ship at lightspeed is jaw dropping.

Really liked Luke's fight with Kylo and even the twist. Most of the stuff on that planet is great.

Overall though I'll go 6/10.

If the middle of the movie had been tighter I think I'd have been much more forgiving but it just drags for way too long.

Oh and I'm predicting now that there will be another twist in the "who Rey's parents are" story.

Victor

Saw it again today.

When you watch it again, watch the salt underfoot.

McDermotX

FWIW, I think Johnson played it waaaay to obvious with Luke's Force reflection.
It was immediately obvious that it wasn't the flesh and blood man from the haircut, to the Just for Men advert, to the lightsaber, to the conscious X-Wing reminder etc.....that's before going into the Crait salt interaction (or lack thereof) or the build up of the AT-AT barrage

Little bit more nuance there would have improved the scene IMO. Not sure of the thinking there, other than trying to project a 'familiar' Luke to Kylo (other than the lightsaber of course).
Still think it's a fine moment all in all, leaving aside people's understandable objections with it, with his final words to Kylo being wonderfully thought out.

Slydice

Victor wrote: »

Saw it again today.

When you watch it again, watch the salt underfoot.

ye know though a bunch more times and then its all wondering how the salt got back there so quick where yer man blasted the several shades of... AT-AT.. outta the ground and it all turned red.

Zubeneschamali

david75 wrote: »

Go and see it make up my own mind and enjoy it or not for myself.

Every movie? Really?

Not me, I prioritize. After Man of Steel, I decided to skip BvS at the cinema, and I am not sorry.

kerplun k

david75 wrote: »

And everyone knows rogue one is an ill begotten whelp of one sentence in the opening crawl of Star Wars. It’s in no way entirely it’s own film. It depends entirely on a new hope and exists outside of any necessity like an unwanted child and it’s already being totally forgotten and lost in the midst of the new films and will further disappear once Solo arrives.

I think your being very harsh on Rogue One. It’s a well crafted film with some great characters and some groundbreaking technology. It also added nuance to A New Hope.
There’s not many prequels that can accomplish something like that.

Drumpot

david75 wrote: »

That I just don’t get. Some of the greatest films ever made were slated by critics and audiences upon release and later emerged to be seen as classics. Screw what anyone else thinks I wouldn’t let myself be lead at all. Go and see it make up my own mind and enjoy it or not for myself. If I don’t enjoy something I don’t spend weeks on forums running it down. Don’t see the point by in that other than feeding some insecurity or something weirder. If you love it though celebrate it and hopefully(feeding a similar weird insecurity) find a forum to kick around about what you liked.

Yeh, allowing other people convince you to go or not go to a movie is not my way of deciding what to see in the movies. Big blockbusters are made for the big screen so not to see them there is simply depriving yourself of a chance of seeing them In all their glory (good or bad)

That aside, people do seem to take their movies and themselves very seriously. Critical analysis of what is primarily a family movie made for families to enjoy together is over rated. I feel a bit sorry for people who can’t enjoy these movies because they might be staying true to their high standards and expectations but there is a cost for that rigid way of viewing movies.

Didn’t Yoda say something like “fear of new movie being bad leads to hate , hate of movie leads to pain, pain of movie leads to suffering”.

Hector Savage

This thread :

I loved it
- You idiot how dare you have a positive opinion, true SW fans hated it.

repeat.

I think TFA set the bar so high that a lot of these people that "hated" it are just really disappointed.

TFA had no expectations because it came after the prequels and I think when first announced everyone expected it to be pure sh1te..
hence people were blown away.

SnakePlissken

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

If you watch a movie and question the casting decisions every time a non-white person shows up on screen then you've got bigger issues than not liking the new Star Wars movie.

Also when two MALE Chinese actors were cast in large supporting roles in Rogue One I don't recall seeing a single post about "quotas", this isn't just racism at play here, it's blatant mysoginy.

Drumpot

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Also when two MALE Chinese actors were cast in large supporting roles in Rogue One I don't recall seeing a single post about "quotas", this isn't just racism at play here, it's blatant mysoginy.

Somebody posted something like “I preferred the way the empire only had white males ” . In all fairness to some I don’t know if people are as upset with there being more diversity as they are with changes being made to the universe they grew up with. This is the point I keep making (“no... really I keep making the same point????!!!), people don’t like deviations from “their universe” or “their Luke” ..

People need to be more like Kevin smith and chill the F*ck out.

pixelburp

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

One scene I was iffy about first time around was the Yoda one: this time it was oddly affecting. Two old friends talking about rejecting the 'sacred texts' and looking forward - the film's metatextual, analytical nature rising from 'subtext' to a more surface text. I can see why some are cynical about the film's willingness to disregard the past, in a franchise Disney seem eager to cash in on until the end of the time - that's a fair reading. But I read something more personal in it: a filmmaker acknowledging a fondness for the past while urging a new generation of directors & audience to look beyond it. The film is purposely cruel with its dismissal of Star Wars lore & rules at first, but I think by the end it has found more of a 'balance' - echoing, of course, what the characters go through here.

I think this scene had the themes truly laid bare, not to mention showings its full hand to the intended audience (Kylo's speech about killing the past notwithstanding) and encapsulated a broader success of the film in that it WASN'T as cruel as it could have been: we had first and second acts that laboured on the notion that perhaps an obsession with legend, nostalgia & lineage is a poison and we should look to our own horizons instead of trying to wallow in past glories or myths.

Dunno about others, but to me that felt incredibly pertinent in a current culture that champions nostalgia as its entertainment comfort blankets (and that's speaking as someone who loved Strangers Things I should add); equally, it came off as being aimed towards the hardcore Star Wars fans who might have been rooted into this notion of what Star Wars IS, should & always be. Johnson wanted to move on from all this, burn it all down, but I think he wanted us to welcome the match instead of anger at it.

There were a half-dozen ways any other writer or director could have torn up the continuity of Star Wars, and all of them about 10 times more obnoxious and insulting to fandom. Personally, Star Trek 2009 remains the sh*tty gold standard in taking a cherished continuity and borderline laughing at it; sure the actual movie was ostensibly entertaining, but the script fell over itself in trying to subvert tonal / character continuity in a fairly mean-spirited fashion IMO.

Divorcing the knowledge of the studio who owns the Star Wars franchise, this was about the kindest way a Star Wars movie could purposely jettison its own history and move into the future, all the while asking its audience to come along with it; after all, who else to hold out a hand but Yoda - a 1980s, puppet Yoda at that?

Moist Bread

Drumpot wrote: »

Somebody posted something like “I preferred the way the empire only had white males ” . In all fairness to some I don’t know if people are as upset with there being more diversity as they are with changes being made to the universe they grew up with. This is the point I keep making (“no... really I keep making the same point????!!!), people don’t like deviations from “their universe” or “their Luke” ..

People need to be more like Kevin smith and chill the F*ck out.

Kevin Smith, the pinnacle of humanity. This thread is amazing.

I am not too fond of racists or misogyny, nor am I fond of self righteous blowhards. A blockbuster movie becomes the political battleground for the bored and idle both pushing their agendas on everyone. The current year, ****ing A.

Drumpot

pixelburp wrote: »

I think this scene had the themes truly laid bare, not to mention showings its full hand to the intended audience (Kylo's speech about killing the past notwithstanding) and encapsulated a broader success of the film in that it WASN'T as cruel as it could have been: we had first and second acts that laboured on the notion that perhaps an obsession with legend, nostalgia & lineage is a poison and we should look to our own horizons instead of trying to wallow in past glories or myths.

Dunno about others, but to me that felt incredibly pertinent in a current culture that champions nostalgia as its entertainment comfort blankets (and that's speaking as someone who loved Strangers Things I should add); equally, it came off as being aimed towards the hardcore Star Wars fans who might have been rooted into this notion of what Star Wars IS, should & always be. Johnson wanted to move on from all this, burn it all down, but I think he wanted us to welcome the match instead of anger at it.

There were a half-dozen ways any other writer or director could have torn up the continuity of Star Wars, and all of them about 10 times more obnoxious and insulting to fandom. Personally, Star Trek 2009 remains the sh*tty gold standard in taking a cherished continuity and borderline laughing at it; sure the actual movie was ostensibly entertaining, but the script fell over itself in trying to subvert tonal / character continuity in a fairly mean-spirited fashion IMO.

Divorcing the knowledge of the studio who owns the Star Wars franchise, this was about the kindest way a Star Wars movie could purposely jettison its own history and move into the future, all the while asking its audience to come along with it; after all, who else to hold out a hand but Yoda - a 1980s, puppet Yoda at that?

Kylo “Bury the past” , Luke “This is not going to go how you think” . Yoda “f*ck the Jedi gospel books”.....

Some people aren’t ready....

Drumpot

Moist Bread wrote: »

Kevin Smith, the pinnacle of humanity. This thread is amazing.

I am not too fond of racists or misogyny, nor am I fond of self righteous blowhards. A blockbuster movie becomes the political battleground for the bored and idle both pushing their agendas on everyone. The current year, ****ing A.

Thanks for showing us what the opposite to being self righteous is by pointing our the folly of our ways.

Moist Bread

Drumpot wrote: »

Thanks for showing us what the opposite to being self righteous is by pointing our the folly of our ways.

Sorry, I need to be more like Kevin smith and chill the F*ck out.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

Here’s codswallop. Worst most embarrassing line in ALL Star Wars

‘What’s your call sign??’

‘Uuuggghh duuuhhhh uggghuughh ‘

‘Say something!’

‘Rogue One’


Someone please shoot whoever let that abomination near a script never mind allowing it onscreen.

Abysmal unforgiveable crap

In a series of films that includes the prequels and most of Finn's awful dialogue. You find very few people who will agree with you on this.




Now, THAT'S "Abysmal unforgiveable crap".

Drumpot

Moist Bread wrote: »

Sorry, I need to be more like Kevin smith and chill the F*ck out.

I mentioned Kevin smith more in the context that I value being around people who choose to focus on the positives of things they love. I share his “this movie wasn’t perfect and there are things I wouldn’t do but” approach to these movies.

Drumpot

Tony EH wrote: »

In a series of films that includes the prequels and most of Finn's awful dialogue. You find very few people who will agree with you on this.




Now, THAT'S "Abysmal unforgiveable crap".

I would look forward to watching rogue one more, this could be one thing we actually agree on!

Moist Bread

I enjoyed Rogue One a lot. It's not perfect, but I liked that it was a self contained story in the larger universe. Also it had a telepathic tenticle monster.

Tony EH

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Also when two MALE Chinese actors were cast in large supporting roles in Rogue One I don't recall seeing a single post about "quotas", this isn't just racism at play here, it's blatant mysoginy.

Actually, there was.

Criticism was leveled at Disney for trying appeal to Asian markets, particularly China.

But, 'Rogue One' didn't do to well over there, because old school 'Star Wars' simply wasn't a thing.

SpaceCowb0y

Late to the bashing brigade, but...


If this movie was not tied to the Star Wars franchise it would be thoroughly enjoyable watch. I left the cinema thinking it was good, it was visually great, the soundtrack was great and a sci-fi movie ticked all the boxes. However given time to think about everything that happened in the movie this is Star Wars but it did not feel like Star Wars. Disney have taken over and have tried to pump it full of gags to appeal to the younger audience when in reality the OT captured the minds of children and adults alike without the need for it.

The Luke Skywalker we got in this film is NOT Luke Skywalker as we know it. Rian Johnson tried something and in my opinion it hasn't worked out.

Far too many characters and not enough character development, the

killing off of Snoke

has made that character irrelevant. I read Johnson's comments on this and he is wrong... just wrong! He cant reference the OT as we are so passed that now and with all the years of stories and the universe that has been built around Star Wars that a character as big as that needed to be fleshed out following the end of the Empire to bridge the gap between the old and the new.

Domnhall Gleeson is awful (and I say that as a fan of his work usually). his character is awful. His performances in this franchise are awful. Yet... as much as i despised him in the first movie, Kylo Ren has proven to be one of the best if not THE best character in this film so kudos there.

Fuck the casino scene... that is all about that.

The battles both in space and between individuals were awesome, good work there.

Overall I enjoyed the watch but i am horribly disappointed with the movie and how it has gone. Rian has been given the green light for his own original trilogy, he should have kept his ideas and intuitions for how Star Wars should go for that. Mark Hamill isn't happy and neither am I! Star Wars will alway be the Skywalker story, I hope JJ knows how to fix this. We are one movie away from the finale, why did it have to be about the new guys? it should have went out with the bang we all wanted.

david75

Did anyone else think it was going to end with Luke walking out through the fire was going to face the first order?

Would have been a hell of a cliff hanger

Given everything else that’s thrown the fandom into a war setting I think it ending that way would have seen this reaction but tenfold