Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

david75

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Ah right . Well they still could have put a human on stilts and pulled off with Prosthetics imo.

THEY actually did have Andy Serkis on stilts. The movement was a little off at one point.
The cgi on the face though was flawless I thought. He looked completely real to me.

conorhal

david75 wrote: »

One of the new visual dictionaries says that Snoke has another apprentice. Could be that’s who we see come to tackle kylo for leadership. Let’s see

Oh great.. another Snoke like, 'insert bad guy here --->' With background information critical to the plot that's only provided in some ancillary appendix that nobody's ever read.

One of my major problems with the film was Snoke. Yes, I can already hear the critisism of 'but Palpatine' is no better developed!', but I don't consider that a valid critique. He wasn't well developed in the original trilogy, but he's as developed as he needs to be, even if it's minimal. He isn't integral to the story because you need to know little more then the fact that he exists.
Integral to the plot of TFA is the fact that Ben Solo has been corrupted by Snoke. It would have made far more sense for TLJ to have made finding out that fact would be Luke's motivation to consider killing Kylo Ren. He's integral to Ren's motivation and Luke's actions, but we know nothing about what happened. That's just bad storytelling.

Hector Savage

david75 wrote: »

Over two years in fairness. And I’m still waiting for my prize. But this is what havibg no mates does to you. Impenetrable Star Wars nerd bubble.

Hey I can relate !
But im only on ~70 odd, im failing at something

Hector Savage

sonic85 wrote: »

I'm thinking of going to see this tonight. Haven't read through the thread though - just want to know if it's any good? Is it worth paying to see or wait?

Absolutely it is , I was dissapointed at first viewing but as a standalone movie its still a great movie, the disappointment was due to unrealistic expectations with the Star Wars extended universe - for me personally anyway .. and im sure it's the same with all the hate its getting - it will settle down and even these lads will admit it's decent in a few months.

Hector Savage

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Some very sad bastards trying to petition this out of the Star Wars lore. There are more important things to petition surely.

Yeah I heard it got ~ 13k signatures -- I mean if they want to petition that out of the canon, why not go for the phantom menace !! and Jar Jar Binks in particular - I'd sign that!

conorhal

Hector Savage wrote: »

Absolutely it is , I was dissapointed at first viewing but as a standalone movie its still a great movie, the disappointment was due to unrealistic expectations with the Star Wars extended universe - for me personally anyway .. and im sure it's the same with all the hate its getting - it will settle down and even these lads will admit it's decent in a few months.

The problem with that is the fact that it's not a stand-alone movie, it's episode 8, and in that regard, it's the Pam Ewing wakes up and finds Bobby Ewing in the shower of Starwars epidodes....

david75

conorhal wrote: »

The problem with that is the fact that it's not a stand-alone movie, it's episode 8, and in that regard, it's the Pam Ewing wakes up and finds Bobby Ewing in the shower of Starwars epidodes....

This film seems to have a much broader appeal to people not invested in Star Wars though. They just want to see the blockbuster of the season. It’s some of the people even remotely tuned into Star Wars have the problems with are the most vocal complaining about it. And in a minority yet shouting loudest it seems.

conorhal

david75 wrote: »

This film seems to have a much broader appeal to people not invested in Star Wars though. They just want to see the blockbuster of the season. It’s some of the people even remotely tuned into Star Wars have the problems with are the most vocal complaining about it. And in a minority yet shouting loudest it seems.

You could say the same about Ghostbusters 2016. That feels like a poor excuse for a bad movie. 'If you didn't give a $h1t about episodes 1-7 then this might be the movie for you!' is hardly an endorsement you want on your poster.

david75

conorhal wrote: »

You could say the same about Ghostbusters 2016. That feels like a poor excuse for a bad movie. 'If you didn't give a $h1t about episodes 1-7 then this might be the movie for you!' is hardly an endorsement you want on your poster.

How do you grow a franchise that’s 40 years old? Make the same story over and over for the same middle aged men that will find fault no matter what?

Or do new things and reach a new audience?

I think over the course of TFA and TLJ we’ve seen both markets catered to quite well. There’s more true Star Wars elements and call backs in TLJ than there are TFA. All of them subtle and almost buried. But they are there. The story is causing so much upset cos it simply isn’t how we think about Star Wars and how it should be. The whole message in the movie is burn the past. Kill it and move on. In Yodas case set fire to it and move on. It’s not our story anymore. It’s their story. You don’t see kids dressed up as Luke anymore. They’re turning up at the cinema dressed as rey and kylo and BB8.
It’s done it’s job.
I personally love that about it that it can evolve and move on and I’m onboard for that. If we have problems with it it probably can be boiled down to our own expectations and demands are no longer relevant and are no longer applicable to the story being told

conorhal

david75 wrote: »

How do you grow a franchise that’s 40 years old? Make the same story over and over for the same middle aged men that will find fault no matter what?

Or do new things and reach a new audience?

I think over the course of TFA and TLJ we’ve seen both markets catered to quite well. There’s more true Star Wars elements and call backs in TLJ than there are TFA. All of them subtle and almost buried. But they are there. The story is causing so much upset cos it simply isn’t how we think about Star Wars and how it should be. The whole message in the movie is burn the past. Kill it and move on. In Yodas case set fire to it and move on. It’s not our story anymore. It’s their story. You don’t see kids dressed up as Luke anymore. They’re turning up at the cinema dressed as rey and kylo and BB8.
It’s done it’s job.
I personally love that about it that it can evolve and move on and I’m onboard for that. If we have problems with it it probably can be boiled down to our own expectations and demands are no longer relevant and are no longer applicable to the story being told

You sound like a marketing department, and as we all know, marketing department's make really great movies!

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

The story is causing so much upset cos it simply isn’t how we think about Star Wars and how it should be.

I disagree. There was nothing about the story that was wildly out of line with the concept of "Star Wars". At best you could argue that people were upset because Luke wasn't what they expected.

It's definitely a Star Wars movie. It just isn't a very good Star Wars movie.

For example, the logistics of the space chase between the First Order and the Resistance is so clunky and kind of nonsensical when you think about it.

Or even the humor. People are saying they hated the use of humor here. That's not because Star Wars shouldn't be funny it's because the attempts at humor in this Star Wars aren't funny.

I think Star Wars should be good. I thought this Star Wars was a boring, messy, over-long, unfunny and ultimately pointless slog that left me with no enthusiasm for episode 9.

When you say "it isn't how you think Star Wars should be" you are saying to me that because I expected a good movie but I got a bad movie then that's a win for the movie because it defied expectations.

It really isn't.

Folks went into the prequels expecting big things but the prequels defied expectations and redefined Star Wars.

How would you rate the prequels?

I see so many folk complaining about "angry fanboys" but it seems like a convenient tactic to dismiss valid criticisms.

"But the Originals!" has pretty much become the "But Hillary's emails" defense of this movie.

david75

conorhal wrote: »

You sound like a marketing department, and as we all know, marketing department's make really great movies!

And you sound like someone who really thinks being angry because other people are enjoying something that you don’t, is a healthy and worthwhile approach.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

I disagree. There was nothing about the story that was wildly out of line with the concept of "Star Wars". At best you could argue that people were upset because Luke wasn't what they expected.

It's definitely a Star Wars movie. It just isn't a very good Star Wars movie.

For example, the logistics of the space chase between the First Order and the Resistance is so clunky and kind of nonsensical when you think about it.

Or even the humor. People are saying they hated the use of humor here. That's not because Star Wars shouldn't be funny it's because the attempts at humor in this Star Wars aren't funny.

I think Star Wars should be good. I thought this Star Wars was a boring, messy, over-long, unfunny and ultimately pointless slog that left me with no enthusiasm for episode 9.

When you say "it isn't how you think Star Wars should be" you are saying to me that because I expected a good movie but I got a bad movie then that's a win for the movie because it defied expectations.

It really isn't.

Folks went into the prequels expecting big things but the prequels defied expectations and redefined Star Wars.

How would you rate the prequels?

I see so many folk complaining about "angry fanboys" but it seems like a convenient tactic to dismiss valid criticisms.

"But the Originals!" has pretty much become the "But Hillary's emails" defense of this movie.

You could probably read lord of the rings cover to cover in the time it takes to make sense of your posts. Regardless of them being the same post. Every. Single. Time.

conorhal

david75 wrote: »

And you sound like someone who really thinks being angry because other people are enjoying something that you don’t, is a healthy and worthwhile approach.

I'm angry at a film I don't like, you are angry at people's reaction to a film that you like, I really have no investment in other peoples view of TLJ, merely expressing my own view of it and explaining why I think it's a valid view..

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

You could probably read lord of the rings cover to cover in the time it takes to make sense of your posts. Regardless of them being the same post. Every. Single. Time.

Haha.

Sure, you just need to read my posts 2 or 3 or 4 times. They get better after repeat readings.

Why do you have so much hate for people who don't like the movie?

Would you prefer if I stopped posting?

david75

conorhal wrote: »

I'm angry at a film I don't like, you are angry at people's reaction to a film that you like.

??? What’s the point being angry at something you don’t like?
And you shouldn’t assume I like it either. I don’t entkrely at all. I have probably the same problems with it you do. They just become irrelevant when you see it without being angry and lol at what *is* in there that’s brilliant.
Luke. Luke and R2 reunion. Luke and Leia reuinion. Throne room sequence and battle. Luke and Yoda. Luke’s stand-off. Luke’s sacrifice. That’s just too of my head.

That’s all I needed on my wish list and I got it. and like every other Star Wars film you eventually absorb the nonsense and it lets the gold shine through. I don’t get posting about something you don’t like. Just move it out of your head why bother keep going on about it? It won’t change the film or how you feel to do it. It’s a challenging film. But it’s the film we needed right now to let Star Wars grow new legs and do different Things.

conorhal

david75 wrote: »

??? What’s the point being angry at something you don’t like?
And you shouldn’t assume I like it either. I don’t entkrely at all. I have probably the same problems with it you do. They just become irrelevant when you see it without being angry and lol at what *is* in there that’s brilliant.
Luke. Luke and R2 reunion. Luke and Leia reuinion. Throne room sequence and battle. Luke and Yoda. Luke’s stand-off. Luke’s sacrifice. That’s just too of my head.

That’s all I needed on my wish list and I got it. and like every other Star Wars film you eventually absorb the nonsense and it lets the gold shine through. I don’t get posting about something you don’t like. Just move it out of your head why bother keep going on about it? It won’t change the film or how you feel to do it. It’s a challenging film. But it’s the film we needed right now to let Star Wars grow new legs and do different Things.

Ugh.. I can't really make any sense of that post.

The point of being angry about something you like that gets ruined it pretty subjective, but there you go, that's all. I like something, Ryan Johnson and Disney took a steaming dump on it. In the scheme of things it doesn't mean that much, but welcome to the internet!

As for the rest. It's a challenging film? No, it really isn't. Irreversible is a challenging film, Come and See is a challenging film, TLJ is just a poor film that rehashes plot points from ESB and ROTJ and is a lame Starwars film. personally I love Starwars and that pisses me off, because it didn't have to be a lame Starwars film.

thegreengoblin

Anyone catch that documentary on BBC4 last night called 'The Galaxy Britain Built'? Interviews with some of the UK artists and technicians who were involved in the production at Elstree Studios. Really enjoyable, old school feel to it. Nice chat with Gary Kurtz too. I think it's on the BBC iPlayer.

conorhal

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Anyone catch that documentary on BBC4 last night called 'The Galaxy Britain Built'? Interviews with some of the UK artists and technicians who were involved in the production at Elstree Studios. Really enjoyable, old school feel to it. Nice chat with Gary Kurtz too. I think it's on the BBC iPlayer.

Cheers for the tip. I'll check that out. From Bond to Starwars to the Alien films UK artisans have rally punched above their weight in world (and universe) conquering cinema in that space.

pumpkin4life

conorhal wrote: »

Ugh.. I can't really make any sense of that post.

The point of being angry about something you like that gets ruined it pretty subjective, but there you go, that's all. I like something, Ryan Johnson and Disney took a steaming dump on it. In the scheme of things it doesn't mean that much, but welcome to the internet!

As for the rest. It's a challenging film? No, it really isn't. Irreversible is a challenging film, Come and See is a challenging film, TLJ is just a poor film that rehashes plot points from ESB and ROTJ and is a lame Starwars film. personally I love Starwars and that pisses me off, because it didn't have to be a lame Starwars film.

Yeah thats the thing.

There are users here going on about how subversive the film is and how brilliant that is because edgy and progressive.

But here's the thing: ignoring and overwriting the rules and laws laid down by the previous universe/movies and not talking about massive plot-holes isn't subversive; its merely really bad writing and you can't recognize that?

If you like the movie, then great, fair deuce to you.

But I'm seeing a lot of praise for it for being subversive or challenging, just for glancing over massive plot holes or for casting obese asian wans and Mary Sue characters who are brilliant at everything.

Guess what? It ain't.

david75

conorhal wrote: »

Ugh.. I can't really make any sense of that post.

The point of being angry about something you like that gets ruined it pretty subjective, but there you go, that's all. I like something, Ryan Johnson and Disney took a steaming dump on it. In the scheme of things it doesn't mean that much, but welcome to the internet!

As for the rest. It's a challenging film? No, it really isn't. Irreversible is a challenging film, Come and See is a challenging film, TLJ is just a poor film that rehashes plot points from ESB and ROTJ and is a lame Starwars film. personally I love Starwars and that pisses me off, because it didn't have to be a lame Starwars film.

You love Star Wars and don’t like it though therefore you’ve been challenged. It’s challenged your understanding of and demands of Star Wars. And I’m with you. I’m not happy about some of it either. Are we gonna whit and never watch them again? No. Are we gonna boycott 9? No. So..

david75

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Anyone catch that documentary on BBC4 last night called 'The Galaxy Britain Built'? Interviews with some of the UK artists and technicians who were involved in the production at Elstree Studios. Really enjoyable, old school feel to it. Nice chat with Gary Kurtz too. I think it's on the BBC iPlayer.

Elstree 76 is well worth looking up too. Weird but interesting film about the many extras that are now on the convention circuit and the politics and experiences involved.

conorhal

david75 wrote: »

You love Star Wars and don’t like it though therefore you’ve been challenged. It’s challenged your understanding of and demands of Star Wars. And I’m with you. I’m not happy about some of it either. Are we gonna whit and never watch them again? No. Are we gonna boycott 9? No. So..

Uh, no. It's challenged my understanding of what constitutes good character development and a coherent plot.
That's like saying The Godfather 3 is a challenging film because Coppola made the movie for $$$'s to save Zoetrope and also cast his daughter who couldn't act.
I can and will avoid 9 because I've no investment or interest in the film now (that one will wait for a decent torrent at best). I'll always still love the original trilogy though, I just won't invest any more in what they are currently doing with the series. I was meh/ok with TFA because, despite it's flaws, it was clearly made by somebody that loved and respected the original films also, even if they honored them in a ham-fisted manner and I REALLY hoped that Johnson (as a film maker I admired) would elevate/redeem the series in the sequel. Unfortunately, TLJ felt like a film made by somebody that actively hated Starwars.

david75

conorhal wrote: »

Uh, no. It's challenged my understanding of what constitutes good character development and a coherent plot.
That's like saying The Godfather 3 is a challenging film because Coppola made the movie because he needed the $$$'s to save Zoetrope and also cast his daughter who couldn't act.
I can and will avoid 9 because I've no got in investment or interest in the film (that one will wait for a decent torrent at best). I'll always still love the original trilogy though, I just won't invest any more in what they are currently doing with the series. I was meh/ok with TFA because, despite it's flaws, it was clearly made by somebody that loved and respected it also, TLJ felt like a film made by somebody that actively hated it.

Again. I’m with you. I’ll never make peace with some of the decisions in this film. Mainly Luke just chucking the saber like it’s of no matter. It’s ****ing is. That’s the symbol or headpiece for what’s wrong with this film. Possibly space Mary Poppins as it’s depicted as well.
Same time I can ignore it and enjoy when it does work. And when it does it hits big. As good as any Star Wars ever. And a development on themes and outside our even perirpheral hardcore view. It is actually challenging us saying this isn’t going to go the way you think. Literally upends all our demands.

Closest analogy I can think of is the outraged hysterical meltdown u2 faced when they released achtung baby. Total fan melt down.
Then soon all that turned into people realising it’s a piece of genius as a move to make that and as a recorded piece of art.

This will be that. And if it’s not, no big deal. It probably won’t make sense for those that do love it until they see 9 and it makes sense of TLJ or they wish it was as good as TLJ.

conorhal

david75 wrote: »

Again. I’m with you. I’ll never make peace with some of the decisions in this film. Mainly Luke just chucking the saber like it’s of no matter. It’s ****ing is. That’s the symbol or headpiece for what’s wrong with this film. Possibly space Mary Poppins as it’s depicted as well.
Same time I can ignore it and enjoy when it does work. And when it does it hits big. As good as any Star Wars ever. And a development on themes and outside our even perirpheral hardcore view. It is actually challenging us saying this isn’t going to go the way you think. Literally upends all our demands.

Closest analogy I can think of is the outraged hysterical meltdown u2 faced when they released achtung baby. Total fan melt down.
Then soon all that turned into people realising it’s a piece of genius as a move to make that and as a recorded piece of art.

This will be that. And if it’s not, no big deal. It probably won’t make sense for those that do love it until they see 9 and it makes sense of TLJ or they wish it was as good as TLJ.

We already know that there was no plan or story after the first film of this trilogy, a fact laid bare by this awful farce, expecting a plan now is just foolhardy and far too late, especially from the studio and director that had no plan in the first place (because JJ does third act's so well.. *cough*'Lost*cough*). We've all seen what sense Johnson made of the setup of the last film.
With all due respect, that sounds like the justification of a battered wife returning home because 'he loves me really and this time it will be different'. I for one am out and heading to the battered Starwars fans shelter to seek help!

Hector Savage

Jaysus lads rent a boxing ring and have a bare knuckle or something .. :D

conorhal

Hector Savage wrote: »

Jaysus lads rent a boxing ring and have a bare knuckle or something .. :D

This is Sparta! Boards! What else are we doing here on a Friday night? :P

johnny_ultimate

pumpkin4life wrote:

obese asian wans

Classy. Can we please be adults and stop making crass comments of this ilk?

david75

conorhal wrote: »

We already know that there was no plan or story after the first film of this trilogy, a fact laid bare by this awful farce, expecting a plan now is just foolhardy and far too late, especially from the studio and director that had no plan in the first place (because JJ does third act's so well.. *cough*'Lost*cough*). We've all seen what sense Johnson made of the setup of the last film.
With all due respect, that sounds like the justification of a battered wife returning home because 'he loves me really and this time it will be different'. I for one am out and heading to the battered Starwars fans shelter to seek help!

So you’re saying guy won’t go see TLJ again? And you won’t go see 9 at all ?

While we’re talking battered wives , find a better analogy. Seriously.

conorhal

david75 wrote: »

So you’re saying guy won’t go see TLJ again? And you won’t go see 9 at all ?

While we’re talking battered wives , find a better analogy. Seriously.

Denial, that's what keeps 'em coming back...