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Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*
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johnny_ultimate wrote: »Classy. Can we please be adults and stop making crass comments of this ilk?
I didn't say anything about her appearance.
You're the one making crass comments johnny!
Obesity is a falsifiable (in the Popperian sense) quantifiable fact (BMI + 30) as is to a lesser extent, race. She is Asian-American after all.
I never said she was ugly or unattractive, did I?
Maybe I like wans with big arses?0 -
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Osmosis Jones wrote: »This is a series where the main character kisses his sister, it was weird long before now
She kisses him! Girls! Sickos! Haha0 -
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59091
I'm quite fascinated by how easily people seem to think this is any sort of good example of character, never mind complexity. Maybe for soap operas and kids comics of the past. For a start he is daftly inconsistent from scene to scene. Secondly the character has no choice over his path. He's just "evil" out of the box. The script and the actor heavy-handedly pushes this point with every gurn and grimace and tantrum. Going for the obvious cursed by destiny but may be redeemed because of his internal conflict angle(QV he ran his da through, but can't pull the trigger on his ma). Rey is similarly born not made, blessed by destiny but may waver before resolution, though at least Ridley doesn't chew the scenery.It was glorious and elevated Kylo Ren into a truly complex, fascinating villain through his own choices.
AKA storytelling that has been around and honed since the days of Babylon. The Epic of Gilgamesh has it and it's over 4000 years old.old fashioned stories Star Wars originally aped
Indeed. If one can make a better hash of the present and future in the telling. I'm seeing little evidence of that in this film, more a case of kill the past(for good marketing reasons) and for the sake of it. It even killed what we got from TFA.Let the past die. Kill it if you have to.
I caught it again so Disney got my beer tokens
and to see if it resonated more second time around. Like I said before it pushes some buttons and I have buttons that can be pushed and that's cool. Some scenes worked better the second time around. The throne room for a start. As a standalone scene anyway. Though I thought Kylo's fighting choreography was a bit leaden in spots. Ridley felt more "real". That these two greatest force users alive both nearly get done in by non force users still jarred. Del Toro was watchable as ever even with the script he had. Though the casino scene was jarring and could be snipped. I'd think similar of the whole side story TBH. Felt like we have to get the Finn dude screen time and spark up a love story angle and deal with the (sadly)loose end that was Phasma(such a bloody waste of a character IMHO and not just in TLJ).
The starship chase seemed even dafter a plot idea second time around(ditto for the opening bombing run). The hyperspace suicide run was fantastic though. Standout image sequence for me. Great cinema. Mind you Dern's character I could easily have done without. Though she is the only woman character that wasn't shown as "perfect" and "invincible", so there's that. Though they weren't to know of poor Carrie's end, it would have been the ideal scene for her to go out on. Princess Leia says fcuk you empire!
Luke on the Skelligs? Hamill and Ridley played it well, but again as a standalone scene not quite in the SW universe but wearing all the familiar clothes of it. Which would be my overarching feeling on this and TFA, especially this. Yoda was inexplicable in his performance and actions. Playing the fool for laughs. Which he only did once before in his very first appearance and for good reasons. He was serious business after that. More of the "burn the past" while pushing nostalgia for the sake of it. Luke with the breastfeeding and fishing wasn't as bad for me as some seem to feel. Initially I thought, hang on, maybe he's doing a first appearance Yoda to Rey's Luke. Playing the cranky old fool to gauge her reaction and worthiness as an apprentice. That would have made more sense and the story could have still had him gone by the end, but nope. Luke had to be the non hero with feet of clay to make way for the new. Burn the past Luke Skywalker.
The Leia superwoman bit was beyond embarrassing.
The removal of Snoke was daft from a story basis. Oh sure it pushed the easily pushed buttons when he got offed, but another utterly wasted pointless character like Phasma. No backstory, no reasons given for who he is, what he came from, how he ended up creating a new empire, or how he's about the most powerful force user we've seen so far, or how he influenced Kylo. Nope, let's throwaway all of that for a button pushing exercise for the popcorn rows. It's really bloody awful storytelling. More like a level in a video game to be won and onto the next.
TL;DR? For me it was a badly written, simplistic, button pushing retcon of the SW universe going forward.
It looked bloody brilliant though. Hats off to the FX and cinematographer guys and gals on that score. The soundtrack was better too.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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I'm quite fascinated by how easily people seem to think this is any sort of good example of character, never mind complexity. Maybe for soap operas and kids comics of the past. For a start he is daftly inconsistent from scene to scene. Secondly the character has no choice over his path. He's just "evil" out of the box. The script and the actor heavy-handedly pushes this point with every gurn and grimace and tantrum. Going for the obvious cursed by destiny but may be redeemed because of his internal conflict angle(QV he ran his da through, but can't pull the trigger on his ma). Rey is similarly born not made, blessed by destiny but may waver before resolution, though at least Ridley doesn't chew the scenery.
AKA storytelling that has been around and honed since the days of Babylon. The Epic of Gilgamesh has it and it's over 4000 years old.
Indeed. If one can make a better hash of the present and future in the telling. I'm seeing little evidence of that in this film, more a case of kill the past(for good marketing reasons) and for the sake of it. It even killed what we got from TFA.
I caught it again so Disney got my beer tokens and to see if it resonated more second time around. Like I said before it pushes some buttons and I have buttons that can be pushed and that's cool. Some scenes worked better the second time around. The throne room for a start. As a standalone scene anyway. Though I thought Kylo's fighting choreography was a bit leaden in spots. Ridley felt more "real". That these two greatest force users alive both nearly get done in by non force users still jarred. Del Toro was watchable as ever even with the script he had. Though the casino scene was jarring and could be snipped. I'd think similar of the whole side story TBH. Felt like we have to get the Finn dude screen time and spark up a love story angle and deal with the (sadly)loose end that was Phasma(such a bloody waste of a character IMHO and not just in TLJ).
The starship chase seemed even dafter a plot idea second time around(ditto for the opening bombing run). The hyperspace suicide run was fantastic though. Standout image sequence for me. Great cinema. Mind you Dern's character I could easily have done without. Though she is the only woman character that wasn't shown as "perfect" and "invincible", so there's that. Though they weren't to know of poor Carrie's end, it would have been the ideal scene for her to go out on. Princess Leia says fcuk you empire!
Luke on the Skelligs? Hamill and Ridley played it well, but again as a standalone scene not quite in the SW universe but wearing all the familiar clothes of it. Which would be my overarching feeling on this and TFA, especially this. Yoda was inexplicable in his performance and actions. Playing the fool for laughs. Which he only did once before in his very first appearance and for good reasons. He was serious business after that. More of the "burn the past" while pushing nostalgia for the sake of it. Luke with the breastfeeding and fishing wasn't as bad for me as some seem to feel. Initially I thought, hang on, maybe he's doing a first appearance Yoda to Rey's Luke. Playing the cranky old fool to gauge her reaction and worthiness as an apprentice. That would have made more sense and the story could have still had him gone by the end, but nope. Luke had to be the non hero with feet of clay to make way for the new. Burn the past Luke Skywalker.
The Leia superwoman bit was beyond embarrassing.
The removal of Snoke was daft from a story basis. Oh sure it pushed the easily pushed buttons when he got offed, but another utterly wasted pointless character like Phasma. No backstory, no reasons given for who he is, what he came from, how he ended up creating a new empire, or how he's about the most powerful force user we've seen so far, or how he influenced Kylo. Nope, let's throwaway all of that for a button pushing exercise for the popcorn rows. It's really bloody awful storytelling. More like a level in a video game to be won and onto the next.
TL;DR? For me it was a badly written, simplistic, button pushing retcon of the SW universe going forward.
It looked bloody brilliant though. Hats off to the FX and cinematographer guys and gals on that score. The soundtrack was better too.
I don’t really agree about kylo. He’s definitely not out of the box villain.
He’s conflicted and switching mor to the light as he gets to know rey more throughout the film. She can sense that too. He’s talking to her the whole time as Ben Solo. Not kylo ren. And that’s the part she’s managing to bring out of him.
He doesn’t fully make the switch until after the battle. She says to him we have to save the fleet and he pauses for a beat and he could go either way in that moment right there and then he goes full bad and demands she let go and join him. Into pleading with her to join him. So maybe even then he’s not totally there.
He’s far more complex and interesting than any villain we’ve had in Star Wars. This is how we should have gotten Anakin in the ugly rot of turning to Vader.0 -
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Now that it's all profit, I'd say they are less worried about many box office issues.
The focus would probably be on making money. KK probably has to demonstrate the type of successful decision making that Feige has over in the MCU ... which so far she has... maybe even more so (all primary films > 1bn, all secondary @ 1bn).
Solo would probably be important internally to demonstrate she can consistently deliver. I can't imagine there not being folks who'd love a chance to step up on the inside... though I know very little of the inside hierarchy over there for SW. Just that it's BI -> KK -> (probably more people) -> Directors
I'm looking forward to Rebels return anyway (ssshhh "Ahsoka lives" pass-it-on) 0 -
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Now that it's all profit, I'd say they are less worried about many box office issues.
The focus would probably be on making money. KK probably has to demonstrate the type of successful decision making that Feige has over in the MCU ... which so far she has... maybe even more so (all primary films > 1bn, all secondary @ 1bn).
Solo would probably be important internally to demonstrate she can consistently deliver. I can't imagine there not being folks who'd love a chance to step up on the inside... though I know very little of the inside hierarchy over there for SW. Just that it's BI -> KK -> (probably more people) -> Directors
I'm looking forward to Rebels return anyway (ssshhh "Ahsoka lives" pass-it-on)
Ahsoka has to make an appearance before the end of the season right?
Really hope the new animated series is about her but it’s a reach.0
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