Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

goose2005

expectationlost wrote: »

isn't it funny that they have such advanced ships but not remote piloting tech

a legacy of being first made in the 70's which is why the technology is all buttons and switches and primitive line displays instead of touchscreens and full-colour images

expectationlost

goose2005 wrote: »

a legacy of being first made in the 70's which is why the technology is all buttons and switches and primitive line displays instead of touchscreens and full-colour images

doesn't explain why they have no remote piloting tech

conorhal

expectationlost wrote: »

doesn't explain why they have no remote piloting tech

They do, in ANH Han altered the logs on the Falcon to indicate that they had bailed out shortly after take off in escape pods and that the Falcon had approached Alderaan on autopilot, then they went and hid in his smuggling compartments.

They only lack autopilot when a nobody character needs to have a big sacrifice moment it seems, in much the same way that star destroyers have shields when you have invent a pointless subplot to give pointless characters something to do, like find a hacker to circumvent them, but not when Poe is on a solo run blowing them up.
Whatever about jettisoning the baggage of the past (that TLJ is being heaped with praise for doing) the film can't even maintain basic logical consistancy from scene to scene within a single film.

Andrew Beef

Maybe the autopilot function can’t be set to ram another ship?

Hardly beyond the realms of possibility.

When driverless cars become the norm, I very much doubt that it’ll be possible to ask your car to drive off a cliff.

Memnoch

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Maybe the autopilot function can’t be set to ram another ship?

Hardly beyond the realms of possibility.

When driverless cars become the norm, I very much doubt that it’ll be possible to ask your car to drive off a cliff.

There's a difference between a driverless car made for consumers and a warship.

It should be easy/standard practise to override any protections like that, if they are built in in the first place.

conorhal

Memnoch wrote: »

There's a difference between a driverless car made for consumers and a warship.

It should be easy/standard practise to override any protections like that, if they are built in in the first place.

I think the whole 'weaponization' of hyperspace was yet another in the long line of bad choices made by Johnson, that seem to have been made purely for asthetic or plot mgguffin reasons. Doing that completely changes the nature of space battles in the Starwars universe, after all, if you can do that then why can't you obliterate and entire fleet of star destroyers with just a handful of droid piloted x-wings?

Arne_Saknussem

conorhal wrote: »

I think the whole 'weaponization' of hyperspace was yet another in the long line of bad choices made by Johnson, that seem to have been made purely for asthetic or plot mgguffin reasons. Doing that completely changes the nature of space battles in the Starwars universe, after all, if you can do that then why can't you obliterate and entire fleet of star destroyers with just a handful of droid piloted x-wings?

Or why build a Death Star, just smash a Star Destroyer into a planet at light speed.

Andrew Beef

Memnoch wrote: »

There's a difference between a driverless car made for consumers and a warship.

It should be easy/standard practise to override any protections like that, if they are built in in the first place.

It’s not a warship.

Infini

conorhal wrote: »

I think the whole 'weaponization' of hyperspace was yet another in the long line of bad choices made by Johnson, that seem to have been made purely for asthetic or plot mgguffin reasons. Doing that completely changes the nature of space battles in the Starwars universe, after all, if you can do that then why can't you obliterate and entire fleet of star destroyers with just a handful of droid piloted x-wings?

Its not a bad point when you really about it. In TFA they have a planet lazer destroy a few planets and everyone sees it even though that isnt possible under any real physics and that seemed ridiculous however when the rebel ship kamikaze runs snokes flagship it makes ALOT more sense as more speed means more energy and the faster you go the more damage anything in the way suffers.

irishman86

So now were all sexist because we didnt like the movie :pac:
Stay tuned for how were all racist because we felt Finns love angle was forced
Any chance that perhaps the superfans are the ones wrong

Saruhashi

conorhal wrote: »

I think the whole 'weaponization' of hyperspace was yet another in the long line of bad choices made by Johnson, that seem to have been made purely for asthetic or plot mgguffin reasons. Doing that completely changes the nature of space battles in the Starwars universe, after all, if you can do that then why can't you obliterate and entire fleet of star destroyers with just a handful of droid piloted x-wings?

I think it could work if it was set up as a crazy plan that has about a 56 billion, 3 million and 25 thousand to one chance of being successful.

Then a few minutes of characters putting all the components in place for the plan to work.

Instead it's played out as if you wanted to take down a ship as large as the supremacy then you aim an object at it and use a hyperdrive engine to ram the enemy ship. Done.

Surely it's better to have the plot revolve around doing something that would allow the hyperdrive plot to work.

Even if it was along the lines of all hope being lost but Leia can't stop thinking about this crazy scheme Han had that involved hitting another ship while travelling at lightspeed.

The problem too is that the empire is shown as being ruthless towards even it's own troops. So it's a bit daft to think that they wouldn't just order those big pointy starships to lightspeed ram a resistance ship containing all of their top people.

Throw in the fact that you give one of the most glorious and selfless deaths in the Star Wars movies to someone we just met an hour ago in episode EIGHT OF NINE, who we know almost nothing about.

It's just one massive illogical excuse to have a fancy special effect on screen. One of the main criticisms of Lucas' prequel movies was this exact thing. Dumb plot points that only exist to put special effects on screen.

Sad Professor

Re: the Japanese influence, Johnson said he modelled Luke's flashbacks on Rashomon:

“The three flashbacks were a late addition – one of the last things that went into the script before we started shooting. It’s similar to Rashomon, but the actual story motivation was that I wanted some harder kick to Rey’s turn: ‘You didn’t tell me this.’ I wanted some harder line that was crossed – a more defined thing that we could actually see – between Luke and Kylo. I didn’t want to do a big flashback. So one flashback that you repeat three times but that’s just one moment seemed more right. Ultimately, the only one who lies is Luke, in the very first flashback, where he omits the fact that he had a lightsaber in his hand. Kylo is basically telling the truth about his perception of the moment.”

Saruhashi

irishman86 wrote: »

So now were all sexist because we didnt like the movie :pac:
Stay tuned for how were all racist because we felt Finns love angle was forced
Any chance that perhaps the superfans are the ones wrong

Now that you mention it I am pretty sure that Finn didn't consent to that kiss so I don't know what message the movie is getting across there?

If you do something major to help someone then you are entitled to kiss them without consent?

That does seem like the Hollywood philosophy of the last few decades though!

Given that Finn 100% did not consent to that kiss I am now saying that anyone who likes the movie is supporting Rape Culture in Hollywood. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for supporting this movie and paying to see it multiple times. Shame!

david75

I think it’s an A wing crashing into the super star destroyer bridge that makes it go crashing into the Death Star in ROTJ. Hera goes to hyperspace through a double sided docking bay in Rebels and Han goes to hyperspace through a Rathtar(?) and out of a docking bay in TFA.

The first one is definitely a thing so there is precedent.

david75

I Love his honesty here but it also sounds like he’s bummed he’s never been asked. He’s always honest about Star Wars being an inspiration for him

Ridley Scott Thinks Disney Should Hire More Experienced Directors for Star Wars

http://io9.gizmodo.com/ridley-scott-thinks-disney-should-hire-more-experienced-1821625671?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=io9_facebook

Jimbob1977

I would give the film 7/10.

It was perfectly adequate. Miles ahead of the prequels, but still lags behind the classic trilogy.

The throne room scene was almost a 'Copy & Paste' of the Skywalker/Vader/Emperor face-off. You could see the outcome a mile off.

I support inclusiveness in films; however the overt political correctness was completely OTT. Star Wars, whether you like it or not, is essentially a 'Boys Own Adventure'. Like The Great Escape or Indiana Jones.

Almost the entire military hierarchy was female... or Admiral Akbar. The Resistance must have studied Scandinavian gender quotas.

Earthhorse

Oh man. What a pity. After TFA steadied the ship and gave us a Star Wars film that felt like a Star Wars film we get this stale two and a half hour mess. Almost nothing was developed despite the long running time and it felt like Johnson was throwing everything and the kitchen sink at us but nothing really stuck.

Rylo and Rey are the only interesting characters for me (well, BB8 is charming) but the rest are kind of tedious and annoying.

Still, it was nice see Hugh Hefner in his final role as Admiral Snoke.

Sad Professor

david75 wrote: »

I Love his honesty here but it also sounds like he’s bummed he’s never been asked. He’s always honest about Star Wars being an inspiration for him

Ridley Scott Thinks Disney Should Hire More Experienced Directors for Star Wars

http://io9.gizmodo.com/ridley-scott-thinks-disney-should-hire-more-experienced-1821625671?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=io9_facebook

Read the full interview, it's very entertaining.

But what he says about being "too dangerous" for Star Wars really isn't true. Scott has consistently rolled over for studios. Compare what happened with Blade Runner with what happened with Brazil. Now that's a dangerous filmmaker. Scott is very studio friendly. He's just too expensive as he admits himself.

Arne_Saknussem

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I would give the film 7/10.

It was perfectly adequate. Miles ahead of the prequels, but still lags behind the classic trilogy.

The throne room scene was almost a 'Copy & Paste' of the Skywalker/Vader/Emperor face-off. You could see the outcome a mile off.

I support inclusiveness in films; however the overt political correctness was completely OTT. Star Wars, whether you like it or not, is essentially a 'Boys Own Adventure'. Like The Great Escape or Indiana Jones.

Almost the entire military hierarchy was female... or Admiral Akbar. The Resistance must have studied Scandinavian gender quotas.

Did you just assume Admiral Akbar's gender? Shame on you

Andrew Beef

It’s wrong to rubbish all of the prequels; Revenge of the Sith is an exceptional Star Wars movie.

conorhal

conorhal wrote: »

I think the whole 'weaponization' of hyperspace was yet another in the long line of bad choices made by Johnson, that seem to have been made purely for asthetic or plot mgguffin reasons. Doing that completely changes the nature of space battles in the Starwars universe, after all, if you can do that then why can't you obliterate and entire fleet of star destroyers with just a handful of droid piloted x-wings?

Why throw a rock at someone's head when you can just throw some pebbles?

david75

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why throw a rock at someone's head when you can just throw some pebbles?

The in universe explanation seems to be when a hull is breached a containment field automatically goes up. So something as small as an xwing wouldn’t make a dent in something like an SD. Rogue one showed us X wings bouncing and crashing into shields also.
Must be the case along the enormous split in Snokes ship. How else are Rey and Kylo and Hux and Finn and Rose still running around inside? Could just be closed bulkheads like we see when Poes ship gets blown up and the doors lock. presumably they drop the field to smother the fire in the vacuum of space. It’s weird they don’t show Rey escaping but we don’t need everything’s explained either I guess.

Tony EH

conorhal wrote: »

I'd imagine that fighting with a lightsaber would definately be more like Kendo TBH, there are no little jabs or light tips with a lightsaber, it's a devastating single strke weapon. A single nick and that's your arm off! so I'd say it would be more likely you don't want to be close in with one and instead would want to stick to short sharp clashes and single strikes.

Rememeber Kenobi and Vader's fight in 'Star Wars'.

That's the way you'd fighting with these things. Except perhaps for Ben's slo mo turn around move. :pac:

Tony EH

conorhal wrote: »

I think the whole 'weaponization' of hyperspace was yet another in the long line of bad choices made by Johnson, that seem to have been made purely for asthetic or plot mgguffin reasons. Doing that completely changes the nature of space battles in the Starwars universe, after all, if you can do that then why can't you obliterate and entire fleet of star destroyers with just a handful of droid piloted x-wings?

It's just a nother dumb move, put on the screen cus it looked kewl - a huge problem with cinema. Never mind that it renders every other last ditch figter attack in every Star Wars film ever as an anomaly

So, if light speed can cut a huge spaceship in half. Why didn't the resistance just fly a load of frigates to the Death Star Starkiller base, aim for the main gun and hit the hyperdirve?

Fuck you Empire First Order.

TerrorFirmer

Andrew Beef wrote: »

It’s wrong to rubbish all of the prequels; Revenge of the Sith is an exceptional Star Wars movie.

Really? I'd be the first to admit it's hugely entertaining but it has some of the worst dialogue going and the entire narrative is beyond terrible thanks to the creative output of George Lucas.

Kylo Ren is what Anakin could have been in ROTS if Lucas had let go of his ego and hired a script writer to deliver on his treatments.

The bones of a truly great film (and trilogy in general) is present, but it needed a lot of help that Lucas was not prepared to admit that he needed.

So instead we got a pretty laughable 'descent' into darkness adorned with dialogue you wouldn't find in a children's Ladybird book and performances to match.

I like the prequels to various degrees, they've a good Star Wars feel to them thanks to some brilliant visuals, amazing soundtracks, incredible scale and really, Lucas was always great at bringing a universe to life...

But they're still pretty bad movies laden by incredibly bad scripting, terrible dialogue and z-grade performances from a-list actors.

TerrorFirmer

On the subject of the lightspeed attack, I don't see why it has to be illogical, surely it can just be taken that the use of a capital ship by the rebels was a desperate last ditch measure when there were no more cards to play.

They couldn't afford to be regularly sacrificing capital ships in space battles when they're already heavily outnumbered with very few capital vessels compared to the First Order (same goes for rebels in the OT).

It seems logical to me that smaller ships wouldn't be able to breach the shielding of major capital ships. If anything I still find the 'easy-peasy' convenient destruction of the Executor in ROTJ far more grating.

david75

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

On the subject of the lightspeed attack, I don't see why it has to be illogical, surely it can just be taken that the use of a capital ship by the rebels was a desperate last ditch measure when there were no more cards to play.

They couldn't afford to be regularly sacrificing capital ships in space battles when they're already heavily outnumbered with very few capital vessels compared to the First Order (same goes for rebels in the OT).

It seems logical to me that smaller ships wouldn't be able to breach the shielding of major capital ships. If anything I still find the 'easy-peasy' convenient destruction of the Executor in ROTJ far more grating.

I’d agree. It’s not like they sat down and planned it as a last resort, she just reacted as the only option left!

Tony EH

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

On the subject of the lightspeed attack, I don't see why it has to be illogical, surely it can just be taken that the use of a capital ship by the rebels was a desperate last ditch measure when there were no more cards to play.

They couldn't afford to be regularly sacrificing capital ships in space battles when they're already heavily outnumbered with very few capital vessels compared to the First Order (same goes for rebels in the OT).

It seems logical to me that smaller ships wouldn't be able to breach the shielding of major capital ships. If anything I still find the 'easy-peasy' convenient destruction of the Executor in ROTJ far more grating.

Then why send a load of x wings to tackle the likes of the Death Star? And end up sacrificing a bunch of much needed pilots too? Just send up a few of those transport thingys, aim it at the big gun and Bob's yer uncle.

And obviously shielding isn't an issue for light speed suicide runs. And only one person is need to actually fly capital ships.

As for the destruction of the Executor, the bridge was destroyed and the ship went out of control. That kind of thing actually happens IRL.

Sad Professor

On the Holdo manoeuvre:

I haven't really been following the plot nitpicking, nor do I care whether the science of it makes sense or not. I was a Star Trek fan before I was a Star Wars fan and I always found SW very unsatisfying and inconsistent in this regard. It seems to me like it was well established in the original film that it was possible to collide with another object while in hyperspace: "Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"

Why didn't they do this before? Well, the way I see it the Rebels in the OT were like 19th century soldiers, i.e. very honourable despite the Empire's tactics against them. Nobody ever used the Holo manoeuvre before because they were never that desperate. I mean, how many rebels die in TESB? A dozen? In TLJ they are almost totally wiped out. Desperate times, desperate measures, etc.

It would be interesting to see Abrams follow up on the implications of Holdo's actions in Episode 9. Like maybe the Resistance splits between those favouring more kamikaze-style measures, allowing the First Order to paint them as terrorists, and those trying to stay more honourable even as the First Order pushes them into a corner. I would hope that they have a different ending in mind than just re-hashing ROTJ's big battle leading to a crushing defeat plot-line. Like maybe the rebels lose militarily in 9 and have to find a different way. Or they realise that by fighting all they are doing is making the rich pricks on Canto Bight richer. Something different will be necessary if they are leave the audience with any sense that the exact same cycle won't just start all over again. Certainly TLJ suggests there's more to winning than blowing up the bad guys.

Tony EH

Sad Professor wrote: »

On the Holdo manoeuvre:

I haven't really been following the plot nitpicking, nor do I care whether the science of it makes sense or not. I was a Star Trek fan before I was a Star Wars fan and I always found SW very unsatisfying and inconsistent in this regard. It seems to me like it was well established in the original film that it was possible to collide with another object while in hyperspace: "Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"

Why didn't they do this before? Well, the way I see it the Rebels in the OT were like 19th century soldiers, i.e. very honourable despite the Empire's tactics against them. Nobody ever used the Holo manoeuvre before because they were never that desperate. I mean, how many rebels die in TESB? A dozen? In TLJ they are almost totally wiped out. Desperate times, desperate measures, etc.

The ENTIRE rebellion was about to be snuffed out on Yavin by a planet destroying gun. I'd call that pretty desperate.