Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

conorhal

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I would give the film 7/10.

It was perfectly adequate. Miles ahead of the prequels, but still lags behind the classic trilogy.

The throne room scene was almost a 'Copy & Paste' of the Skywalker/Vader/Emperor face-off. You could see the outcome a mile off.

I support inclusiveness in films; however the overt political correctness was completely OTT. Star Wars, whether you like it or not, is essentially a 'Boys Own Adventure'. Like The Great Escape or Indiana Jones.

Almost the entire military hierarchy was female... or Admiral Akbar. The Resistance must have studied Scandinavian gender quotas.

Well.. I did laugh my ass off when I asked my buddy coming out of the cinema, "how did the rebellion go from crushing the empire in ROTJ, to battling with a resurgent First Order in TFA, to being able to pretty much accommodate all the rebels left in the galaxy on the friggin' millennium falcon by the end of TLJ?"
To which he dryly replied, "yeah, well that's what you get I guess when you put your grandma in charge of an army run by purple haired SJWs and a bunch of diversity hires.. I for one will be voting Hux in 2020 and wearing my 'Make the Empire Great Again' hat..."

By all means bring more women into the starwars universe if you want, but you do them no favors by doing so and then making them all Mary Sue's or underwritten incompetents.

johnny_ultimate

Yep, it’s a desperate measure that comes at great cost (the loss of the Resistance’s last major ship). It’s an impulsive, radical move that visibly shocks pretty much everyone who witnesses it. We can hardly fault Johnson for coming up with a good, internally coherent idea that others haven’t before.

And while I have no significant issue with its implementation in story terms, sometimes a great aesthetic choice is the right one. I mean, I can’t really remember the last time I saw a showstopping spectacle moment in a major SFX-heavy blockbuster quite as effective as this one. It’s a moment that just leaps off the screen thanks to the sheer force of it, only enhanced by the inspired directorial choice to isolate the visuals. In purely emotional terms, too, it is an explosive culmination of what’s happening at that point in the narrative - emphasising the utter desperation of the rebels, & the violent clash playing out between Kylo & Rey, in a moment that is as thrillingly cinematic as they come. I’ve been quite vocal in defending the strength of the visual storytelling in the film, and that moment is as viscerally, gloriously space operatic as any this series has ever offered.

david75

Serious upswing at box office it seems. $934 million globally.
Would think New Year’s Eve will stop it passing a billion over the weekend. Who knows.

radonicus

At the end of Rogue One, as Vader arrives to handle the fleet, some of the rebellion ships jump to hyperspace but crash into and are destroyed against his star destroyer.

david75

radonicus wrote: »

At the end of Rogue One, as Vader arrives to handle the fleet, some of the rebellion ships jump to hyperspace but crash into and are destroyed against his star destroyer.

Oh wow! That’s right!
To little or no effect damage wise either

Wibbs

Tony EH wrote: »

So, if light speed can cut a huge spaceship in half. Why didn't the resistance just fly a load of frigates to the Death Star Starkiller base, aim for the main gun and hit the hyperdirve?

Well if light speed were possible, even a fighter would do a huge amount of damage. The kinetic energy released on impact going at three hundred thousand kilometres per second would be truly enormous. I'd imagine there would be some spacetime distortions too.

Sad Professor

Tony EH wrote: »

The ENTIRE rebellion was about to be snuffed out on Yavin by a planet destroying gun. I'd call that pretty desperate.

More desperate then.

radonicus wrote: »

At the end of Rogue One, as Vader arrives to handle the fleet, some of the rebellion ships jump to hyperspace but crash into and are destroyed against his star destroyer.

You mean this?

I haven't done a frame by frame analysis (I'm sure someone will) but they don't look like they are at hyperspace to me. Looks like they just crashed into Vader's ship before they had a chance to make the jump.

radonicus

Sad Professor wrote: »

More desperate then.



You mean this?

I haven't done a frame by frame analysis (I'm sure someone will) but they don't look like they are at hyperspace to me. Looks like they just crashed into Vader's ship before they had a chance to make the jump.

Looking at it I think you're right.

david75

If you’re into the score and music in Star Wars. This is great.

Part one of this three-part podcast miniseries features a (very) brief history of our host's introduction to both Star Wars and John Williams, the way Star Wars has traditionally been scored (and how that approach was changed for the Last Jedi), the difference between a motif and a theme, the series' prior callbacks to its own legacy, and how John Williams' tends to interpret emotion through his music for the saga.

https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/full-of-sith-star-wars-news-discussions-and-interviews/id591644330?mt=2&i=1000398647666

david75

radonicus wrote: »

Looking at it I think you're right.

Either way Im sure they took pains to match up to a new hope. Pretty sure the SD looks undamaged at the start of the chase sequence

Tony EH

The ship that's exploding is hitting the Star Destroyer's shields, I suppose.

Slydice

Tony EH wrote: »

The ship that's exploding is hitting the Star Destroyer's shields, I suppose.

looks like it's just a strong material.. like tin foil crinkling off of steel

Tony EH

Theoretically, isn't that what shields are in sci fi? A strong defence, albeit on that wears down gradually?

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

The ship that's exploding is hitting the Star Destroyer's shields, I suppose.

Would make you wonder why shields aren’t up in that scene in rogue one when the hammerhead ship pushes the star destroyer into the other one.

A great example of Star Wars inconsistencies not mattering when something is just too f*ckin awesome lets just do it. It’ll be an amazing shot.

I’m gonna watch rogue one tonight

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

Would make you wonder why shields aren’t up in that scene in rogue one when the hammerhead ship pushes the star destroyer into the other one.

A great example of Star Wars inconsistencies not mattering when something is just too f*ckin awesome lets just do it. It’ll be an amazing shot.

I’m gonna watch rogue one tonight

I was just going to post that.

Thinking on that further. The Holo manoeuvre makes that ramming equipment seem even more silly. Just populate them with droids and hyperspace through the Star Destroyer.

Job done.

#fuckstarwarsforwastingmytime :pac:



Edit: My problem is not really the physics of Holdo's act, it's the fact that weaponising something like hyperspace to such a devastating effect would have been done before and done often. It wouldn't have been the revelation that it was portrayed as.

Manach

About a D rating. Watched it to-day and if just judging it as a stand alone un-related to other movies, I found it an enjoyable SFX viewing. Looking through the lens of the other films in the series, then it becomes more problematic. The handling of the threads of the Force Awakens (Snook's origins and Rey's parentage) were botched while the grander canon, that focusing on the key driver of Luke Skywalker was inconsistant with his development in the earliest films. The introduction of current politics ( the diatribe against the Capitalist system at the casino planets is a bit rich considering the power of Disney) was jarring as well as the seeming year-zero purge of existing Jedi Lore.

As for the Rebel Cruiser's ramming of the Dreadnought, if using blue water analogies (as the bombing scene was pure WWII not much of stretch) the chances of this happening is effectively nil.

Cantona's Collars

Watched it again, never copped the close up when Ren faces Luke and moves his foot to set up his stance and the salt is moved showing the red ground and when Luke does it we see no movement of the ground. Just a clue that Luke was merely a Force projection and one I missed on the first viewing.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

I was just going to post that.

Thinking on that further. The Holo manoeuvre makes that ramming equipment seem even more silly. Just populate them with droids and hyperspace through the Star Destroyer.

Job done.

#fuckstarwarsforwastingmytime :pac:



Edit: My problem is not really the physics of Holdo's act, it's the fact that weaponising something like hyperspace to such a devastating effect would have been done before and done often. It wouldn't have been the revelation that it was portrayed as.

The simple answer is always best.
The rebellion are a rag tag fleet. They don’t have anything like the amount of ships they’d need to do this effectively And often. They just don’t. The imperial fleet and later first order fleet are beyond massive. They’d just build tech to counter it anyways. They have tech that can pull rebel ships out of hyperspace already (in Rebels)

Also in real world terms I think our history and 9/11 I guess has brought this up as an idea. There’s no comfortable way to retcon it so that they’ve always done it.

They can’t have anyways they just don’t have the ships needed to do so.

She made a personal sacrifice and I think that’s being glossed over. Not the first suicide run we’ve seen in Star Wars but definitely the most effective.

Andrew Beef

I watched Rogue One again on Sky Movies earlier today. The scene where Vader kills the rebels on their ship is one of the best in all of the movies.

Saruhashi

Wibbs wrote: »

Well if light speed were possible, even a fighter would do a huge amount of damage. The kinetic energy released on impact going at three hundred thousand kilometres per second would be truly enormous. I'd imagine there would be some spacetime distortions too.

I wonder if the Empire would even need to build a Death Star when you could probably point a Star Destroyer at a planet, hit it at light speed and cause an mass extinction event at the very least.

People are obviously willing to sacrifice their lives for the Empire and I'm sure Palpatine wouldn't have been above manipulation or coercion or maybe he would have had some kind of cult followers who would get the job done.

The hyperspace thing looked nice sure but does it fit into the world?

I'm thinking about world building specifically and how people seem to be praising something that actually kind of "breaks" the world that has been built up.

The fact that lightspeed kamikaze runs are not only possible but are shown to do massive damage to an entire fleet of starships and a mega star destroyer has implications for future stories while casting a shadow over previous stories.

Sure the rebels may have been too noble to resort to those tactics but the Empire?

david75

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I watched Rogue One again on Sky Movies earlier today. The scene where Vader kills the rebels on their ship is one of the best in all of the movies.

The Vader we always wanted to see. After seeing it I don’t think anyone would complain about a standalone Vader film of him hunting down Jedi and just doing this scene on repeat killing the scaredy hippy Jedi hiding in the hills around the galaxy.

Earthhorse

Sad Professor wrote: »

It would be interesting to see Abrams follow up on the implications of Holdo's actions in Episode 9. Like maybe the Resistance splits between those favouring more kamikaze-style measures, allowing the First Order to paint them as terrorists, and those trying to stay more honourable even as the First Order pushes them into a corner.

No it wouldn't. That honestly sounds boring as all f*ck. If it were a TV series you might have the time to develop that without heavy exposition or at the cost of developing the characters. All I hope from the next installment is for Abrams to deliver something more lively and focused to eclipse this non event of a film.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

I wonder if the Empire would even need to build a Death Star when you could probably point a Star Destroyer at a planet, hit it at light speed and cause an mass extinction event at the very least.

People are obviously willing to sacrifice their lives for the Empire and I'm sure Palpatine wouldn't have been above manipulation or coercion or maybe he would have had some kind of cult followers who would get the job done.

The hyperspace thing looked nice sure but does it fit into the world?

I'm thinking about world building specifically and how people seem to be praising something that actually kind of "breaks" the world that has been built up.

The fact that lightspeed kamikaze runs are not only possible but are shown to do massive damage to an entire fleet of starships and a mega star destroyer has implications for future stories while casting a shadow over previous stories.

Sure the rebels may have been too noble to resort to those tactics but the Empire?

The empire are raping the resource rich planets of the galaxy to fuel their war machine. Lothal, wobani etc. They protect these planets to the teeth with the fleet but all while destroying them on the surface until they leave it a burned wasteland.
They can’t go hitting planets with star destroyer missles cos they’re running a we are the good guys propaganda campaign a la nazis, to the citizens of the empire. And the rebellion portrayed as terrorists. And cos they never know where the rebellion is. It has countless different cells all dispersed around the galaxy.

Even the fleet you see at the end of ROTJ isn’t the entire rebellion fleet. It’s just it’s main force.

This is all in the expanded universe new canon and mainly the series Rebels.

david75

Earthhorse wrote: »

No it wouldn't. That honestly sounds boring as all f*ck. If it were a TV series you might have the time to develop that without heavy exposition or at the cost of developing the characters. All I hope from the next installment is for Abrams to deliver something more lively and focused to eclipse this non event of a film.

Lucky you. There’s a Star Wars live action series coming in 2019 with a bigger budget than anything on tv yet seen. You might just get Vader doing this

And the rebellion are already broken into factions in rogue one. Saws people are proper take no prisoners kill your own terrorists. The rebellion under mon mothma is all Noble and play by the rules.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

The Vader we always wanted to see. After seeing it I don’t think anyone would complain about a standalone Vader film of him hunting down Jedi and just doing this scene on repeat killing the scaredy hippy Jedi hiding in the hills around the galaxy.

Actually one of the earliest ideas for Episode 7 was that there would be a group of "Jedi Hunters" doing essentially that. I think they even had early concept art for this and that's what Kylo Ren was initially supposed to be.

I would love to see a Darth Vader movie but The Last Jedi has taught me to be careful what I wish for...

Earthhorse

david75 wrote: »

Lucky you. There’s a Star Wars live action series coming in 2019 with a bigger budget than anything on tv yet seen. You might just get Vader doing this

Vader's directing the new series? This I gotta see!

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

They can’t go hitting planets with star destroyer missles cos they’re running a we are the good guys propaganda campaign a la nazis, to the citizens of the empire.

You know they had this thing called the "Death Star", right?

I think the Imperials themselves (and even Vader himself in RotJ?) call it the Death Star.

They weren't exactly going around calling it the "Laser Moon Entertainment Complex".

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

You know they had this thing called the "Death Star", right?

I think the Imperials themselves (and even Vader himself in RotJ?) call it the Death Star.

They weren't exactly going around calling it the "Laser Moon Entertainment Complex".

I was responding to your idea of just using Star destroyers as missles to hit planets. It’s on the same page. It’s just up there. And trying to give you an in universe reason why that doesn’t happen.

Andrew Beef

In The Last Jedi, it’s mentioned that Kylo Ren took six of Luke’s students with him; I wonder when we’re gonna see them?

I’m guessing that they’re “the Knights of Ren” who Snoke refers to in The Force Awakens; I think that we see them with Kylo Ren when Rey has her vision.

david75

Earthhorse wrote: »

Vader's directing the new series? This I gotta see!

It’ll die in the first season and Kathleen Kennedy will be standing over Vader’s corpse saying ‘apology accepted director vader’
And that’ll be in the extras on the box set.