Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

judeboy101

david75 wrote: »

Haha. This is funny. And true.

Woman in space surviving for 20 seconds and using her latent force abilities to save herself

TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Guy with legs chopped off and one arm chopped off and on fire *in lava* survives

Yeah that’s fine

Lots of lads survive worst in IED explosions in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Tipsy McSwagger

strandroad wrote: »

I completely agree. He is still a hero, just a wiser, self-aware and efficient one. In fact you could complain that his sacrifice tracked Obi-Wan Kenobi's a little too closely and there was nothing wrong with the latter.

A genuine question for those who feel that Luke's character was mistreated in TLJ: what would you like to see instead? What kind of send off would satisfy you?

He should have become a tour rep on Skellig Michael.

Pete Moss

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

He should have become a tour rep on Skellig Michael.

Rebrand the character as 'Luke Skelligwalker'.

david75

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

He should have become a tour rep on Skellig Michael.

Ive met the tour guide that lives on Skellig. Luke isn’t far off

(*hes a wonderful eccentric old man full to the brim of the history and knowledge of the islands and a wonderful story teller)

Earthhorse

david75 wrote: »

(*hes a wonderful eccentric old man full to the brim of the history and knowledge of the islands and a wonderful story teller)

Maybe he should write the next one so.

david75

Earthhorse wrote: »

Maybe he should write the next one so.

The monks that originally went there and pre chritisans before them did so for much the same reason luke and the Early Jedi did it seems.

There is some sort of energy on that island. Never felt anything like it anywhere.

strandroad

Does anyone else think that it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing to recast Leia for the final instalment? I of course felt it would be blasphemous after Carrie Fisher died, but with the passage of time the thought kind of becomes bearable.

On the one hand she's already passed the torch to Poe like Luke has to Rey, but then we now know that Leia is a Force user, and also that Kylo Ren is unable to directly kill her (although he's happy to let others do it). With the right actress I'd like to see it explored, before Leia goes after Han and Luke. I'd like her to have a proper send off, even if in another form.

nix

strandroad wrote: »

Does anyone else think that it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing to recast Leia for the final instalment? I of course felt it would be blasphemous after Carrie Fisher died, but with the passage of time the thought kind of becomes bearable.

On the one hand she's already passed the torch to Poe like Luke has to Rey, but then we now know that Leia is a Force user, and also that Kylo Ren is unable to directly kill her (although he's happy to let others do it). With the right actress I'd like to see it explored, before Leia goes after Han and Luke. I'd like her to have a proper send off, even if in another form.

The other reason why she shouldnt have flown through space and just died :rolleyes:

I don't know why people mock the fast paced sabre fights in the prequels, imo its one of the welcome additions, their speed a result of using the force to predict their enemies attacks/defenses. Thats what it is and to me people just highlight their own ignorance by labeling it "too choreographed" :rolleyes:

But yeah, flying through and breathing in space is grand! :rolleyes:

david75

strandroad wrote: »

Does anyone else think that it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing to recast Leia for the final instalment? I of course felt it would be blasphemous after Carrie Fisher died, but with the passage of time the thought kind of becomes bearable.

On the one hand she's already passed the torch to Poe like Luke has to Rey, but then we now know that Leia is a Force user, and also that Kylo Ren is unable to directly kill her (although he's happy to let others do it). With the right actress I'd like to see it explored, before Leia goes after Han and Luke. I'd like her to have a proper send off, even if in another form.

Recasting isn’t a terrible idea. Get Kate Mullgrew to do it. She’s quite similar and ha a similar bearing.

Will they though? I think Leia will be written out as having passed and that’s the spark that ignites the allies to come to the rebel cause against the first order.
There’s no satisfactory way out of this. Only a least worst option. And I reckon that is writing her out.

I don't really get the hate towards the Leia scene. I had no problem with in fact I quite enjoyed. I was nice seeing Leia finally proving herself to be the force badass that she always had the potential to be.

I think there's around 25 individual moments (e.g gravity in space, the humour, Luke force projecting etc.) like that throughout the film that divides everyone. If you are lucky you enjoyed them all.

david75

nix wrote: »

The other reason why she shouldnt have flown through space and just died :rolleyes:

I don't know why people mock the fast paced sabre fights in the prequels, imo its one of the welcome additions, their speed a result of using the force to predict their enemies attacks/defenses. Thats what it is and to me people just highlight their own ignorance by labeling it "too choreographed" :rolleyes:

But yeah, flying through and breathing in space is grand! :rolleyes:

People arent ignorant if they think the prequel duels are over choreographed.
They are plainly over choreographed. I get that and many people get that the point is to show this is Jedi at the height of their abilities.

The excecuion of it piss poor though. All of them. . It’s too obviously rehearsed to death and all stakes are lost and it’s takes you out of the film.

If you like them, fine. But Nobody’s ignorant for having the opinion that they’re crap.

Wibbs

radonicus wrote: »

The music and crawl.

Ren in his Tie fighter.

Luke & R2D2, and the hologram of Leia - the best use of OT/ canon stuff ever. And possibly more evocative than when originally used.

When Holdo crashes into the star destroyer.

Luke walking out to face them down.

The final scene with the young kid.

Save for the edits, the above list of Rad's works for me. And it was beautifully photographed in general.

david75 wrote: »

Haha. This is funny. And true.

Woman in space surviving for 20 seconds and using her latent force abilities to save herself

TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Guy with legs chopped off and one arm chopped off and on fire *in lava* survives

Yeah that’s fine

Well technically D... Unlike what popular fiction tells us you could have useful consciousness in vacuum for about 10 to 15 seconds. And you don't freeze over(you'd look cyanotic and bloated). Technically(again) your exposed bodily fluids boil. If and going against common sense and nature, you breathed out before you were exposed to space. If you took in a lungful then your useful consciousness would drop right off and lung rupture wouldn't be beyond the bounds. Force abilities are another boiling vessel of finned creatures.

Legs chopped off and one arm chopped off and on fire by lava? Physiologically more believable. If anything the searing heat of lava would cauterise and sterilise the wounds quite well. The lungs would be fooked breathing in all that superheated air. If you survived all that and were brought to a current medical facility, you could well survive it. You'd need skin grafts and physiotherapy and supplemental oxygen and prosthetics. So basically this...


With added cool factor and impossible energy sword.

TL;DR Darth is a little more "realistic" than Superleia. *went full nerdlinger there*

nix

david75 wrote: »

People arent ignorant if they think the prequel duels are over choreographed.
They are plainly over choreographed. I get that and many people get that the point is to show this is Jedi at the height of their abilities.

The excecuion of it piss poor though. All of them. . It’s too obviously rehearsed to death and all stakes are lost and it’s takes you out of the film.

If you like them, fine. But Nobody’s ignorant for having the opinion that they’re crap.

I've no problem with people thinking their crap, I'm just highlighting its silly to call them too choreographed when they needed to be fast and accurate, slow and sloppy would be amateur and unbefitting of a jedi/sith master in their prime.

nix

Wibbs wrote: »

Save for the edits, the above list of Rad's works for me. And it was beautifully photographed in general.

Well technically D... Unlike what popular fiction tells us you could have useful consciousness in vacuum for about 10 to 15 seconds. And you don't freeze over(you'd look cyanotic and bloated). Technically(again) your exposed bodily fluids boil. If and going against common sense and nature, you breathed out before you were exposed to space. If you took in a lungful then your useful consciousness would drop right off and lung rupture wouldn't be beyond the bounds. Force abilities are another boiling vessel of finned creatures.

Legs chopped off and one arm chopped off and on fire by lava? Physiologically more believable. If anything the searing heat of lava would cauterise and sterilise the wounds quite well. The lungs would be fooked breathing in all that superheated air. If you survived all that and were brought to a current medical facility, you could well survive it. You'd need skin grafts and physiotherapy and supplemental oxygen and prosthetics. So basically this...


With added cool factor and impossible energy sword.

TL;DR Darth is a little more "realistic" than Superleia. *went full nerdlinger there*

Yeah all Leia needed to help her recover the vaccum of space was a bed and then a walking stick :pac:

Vladimir Poontang

david75 wrote: »

Haha. This is funny. And true.

Woman in space surviving for 20 seconds and using her latent force abilities to save herself

TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Guy with legs chopped off and one arm chopped off and on fire *in lava* survives

Yeah that’s fine

It has nothing to do with gender for fcuk sake. It has everything to do with presentation and storytelling.

This bollocks that criticism of the new film is due to gender and not just plain old ****e storytelling, writing and direction speaks volumes about the kind of daft imported SJW view of the world that instantaneously marks out that person as someone whose opinion should not be taken seriously.

Wibbs

david75 wrote: »

Ive met the tour guide that lives on Skellig. Luke isn’t far off

Random interlude: I spent the night on Skellig Michael way back in the day. It felt very precarious to me until I got to the Monk's cells part. That felt like home. A cleft in a rock caressed and pummelled by wind and sea. And looking back, I agree D, it is one of those rare places with an "energy". Very much so. The sunsets are fcuking amazing. Well the one I saw was. The sunrise I missed, cos I overslept by half an hour. The Monk cells are remarkably good at blocking the weather and feeling comfy. Though that was my 20th century, I can leave here at any time, take on things. To actually live there, would make for men of much sterner stuff than I could ever muster. I was fascinated by their rain collecting mechanism cut into the living rock. And of what were once their tilled "fields". And the narrowed points in the landscape they used and added to in case of viking raids. And all the books and crannies they forged and adapted to their faith. A sea mountain of dreams and myth. So yeah, an ideal place for the Jedi mythos to inhabit.

irishthump

david75 wrote: »

Expecting not many responses to this

I rest my case.....

irishthump

david75 wrote: »

People arent ignorant if they think the prequel duels are over choreographed.
They are plainly over choreographed. I get that and many people get that the point is to show this is Jedi at the height of their abilities.

The excecuion of it piss poor though. All of them. . It’s too obviously rehearsed to death and all stakes are lost and it’s takes you out of the film.

If you like them, fine. But Nobody’s ignorant for having the opinion that they’re crap.

I suggest you watch the interviews with Nick Gillard explaining why he choreographed the saber battles the way he did. You might grasp it a little better then......

Wedwood

Just on the Force projection:
I remember in 1977, 5 minutes after Obi Wan was killed, he's back spirit guiding Luke how to blow up the Death Star. In 1980, Luke and Vader were conversing with each other at the end of ESB using the Force. In 1983, the famous deleted scene with Luke and Vader doing the same again across the galaxy, plus more again when the shuttle was sneaking down to Endor.

I thought Luke's trick was cool and was a much better way to show off his Jedi master power rather than 'doing a Dooko' and CGIing Hamill's face onto a younger acrobat with a lightsaber. Hamill is older now than Alec Guinness was in Star Wars, so Johnson was actually quite brilliant in giving those fans the imagery of Luke at his peak and at the same time giving Luke his heroic sacrifice exit, not dissimilar to Obi Wan in Star Wars.

johnny_ultimate

I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say the new trilogy has not exactly packed the memorable themes of the earlier films (Rey’s Theme and a few others are strong, if not as instantly iconic The Imperial March or Duel of the Fates). But here’s a really interesting look at the nuances of Williams’ score. Heavy enough on the music theory, but probably needs to be https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/a-field-guide-to-the-musical-leitmotifs-of-star-wars?mbid=social_twitter

Sometimes, the music does all of the work of explaining what is going on. In one scene, Leia, Luke’s Force-capable sister, communicates telepathically with her son Kylo Ren, who has gone over to the dark side and is training his guns on her vessel. Leia’s theme is briefly heard against a dissonant cluster chord. Earlier in the saga, we might have been subjected to dialogue along the lines of “Don’t do this! I’m your mother!” Williams’s musical paraphrase is more elegant.

Tony EH

Saruhashi wrote: »

Clearly they will go the way that market research tells them to go. They will do whatever makes the most money.

God be with the days when hollywood films were free of such drivel.

Tony EH

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I challenge any Star Wars fan to deny that their pulse raced when:

To a point, but it quickly settled when the poor nature of the scene let itself be known.


- Poe took on the Dreadnought

Fine, but wrecked by a terribly unfunny setup for a gag.

- Snoke was killed

Telegraphed and then made everyone wonder what the point of Snoke was in the first place.

- Kylo Ren and Rey battled the Imperial Guards

Grand. But did either of them use their Force skills and one of the guards took an inordinate amount of time slit Kylo's throat. Comes off as a bit odd. Probably the best scene in the film though.

- Yoda showed up

And then stunk the place up in "funny" Yoda mode that didn't make a lick of sense.

- Luke Skywalker walked out to face the First Order army alone

As a hologram...then keeled over. Weak.

- The Millenium Falcon battled the Tie Fighters

Don't even remember that part.

david75

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

It has nothing to do with gender for fcuk sake. It has everything to do with presentation and storytelling.

This bollocks that criticism of the new film is due to gender and not just plain old ****e storytelling, writing and direction speaks volumes about the kind of daft imported SJW view of the world that instantaneously marks out that person as someone whose opinion should not be taken seriously.

Eeehhhh you’re responding to totally the wrong post I reckon. But we’ve heard you I’m sure. There are people complaining in this thread a few pages back and currently in the Solo thread about women and ‘coloureds’ being the problem with these films and Hollywood and fvck anyone who disagrees.

No interest in arguing that with you or anyone. Youve clearly been looking for that since you joined us and personally I find it a bit sad that posters like yourself are so threatened by someone simply not falling into line with how you demand we think. There’s nothin wrong with criticism. Back it up as it regards to the film though and without blaming women or different ethnicities.

david75

irishthump wrote: »

I suggest you watch the interviews with Nick Gillard explaining why he choreographed the saber battles the way he did. You might grasp it a little better then......

Wow. Can anyone in this thread make a point without sounding like a condescending twat? I want in.

I’ve seen all the supplementary material to the prequels. Including that on the lightsaber duels. And yes. They’re still over choreographed crap.

Riddle101

Watched the Last Jedi today and thought it was a bit underwhelming. I mean there were some good parts but it felt like a rehash of Empire Strikes Back in the same way that The Force Awakens felt like a rehash of A New Hope. They just seemed to be reminiscent of the older movies.

I thought Snoke and Captain Phasma were completely wasted in this movie. I mean is Captain Phasma supposed to be a running gag? She turned up late in the movie, and her death was pretty lame. Perhaps if Phasma had a bigger role in the movie like maybe if she had been ordered to capture Finn and Rose when they went on their mission to disable the tracking device it would have meant something, but her presence didn't feel all that important. Also Snoke getting killed like that was silly. Of all the villains in Star Wars, Snoke has to be the worst. All that mystery about him in The Force Awakens and he turns out to be nothing in the end, just gets killed off in a very anti climatic way.

I enjoyed Luke Skywalker's scenes the most, but what was up with the ending? He just dies and vanishes or something? After everything they went through in TFA to find Luke, and all the talk about Luke helping the Resistance he goes out like that. I think most were expecting something more. I guess he did save the Resistance but whatever, I guess he's going to be a force ghost or something in the next movie.

Anyway, I think I need more time to reflect on the movie and maybe watch it again some day, but it just didn't settle well with me.

irishthump

david75 wrote: »

Wow. Can anyone in this thread make a point without sounding like a condescending twat? I want in.

I’ve seen all the supplementary material to the prequels. Including that on the lightsaber duels. And yes. They’re still over choreographed crap.

I think previous form would preclude your involvement in said thread.....

david75

david75 wrote: »

Wow. Can anyone in this thread make a point without sounding like a condescending twat? I want in.

I’ve seen all the supplementary material to the prequels. Including that on the lightsaber duels. And yes. They’re still over choreographed crap.

You can say that about any fight scene in the series, they are all over choreographed given that all involved spend weeks practicing. I find that in a lot of films like Star Wars and most Hollywood fare the more traditional fight scenes lack a fluidity and grounded feel. There's no real spark to them, no sense that anyone could get hurt doing this.

There's no really impressive fight scene in The Last Jedi, sure they are at time thrilling and look good but they lack a visceral edge.

If you are looking for great fight scenes then Star Wars would not be where I would go looking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE1M3mS77W4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2piDs9HMn4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7d_UacumGk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Lkl6HX19o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03vo7ggVGsE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvc1Ae-YCU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H-3NKj8yO8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOBTFfHJjV8

judeboy101

Deleted User wrote: »

david75 wrote: »

Wow. Can anyone in this thread make a point without sounding like a condescending twat? I want in.

I’ve seen all the supplementary material to the prequels. Including that on the lightsaber duels. And yes. They’re still over choreographed crap.

You can say that about any fight scene in the series, they are all over choreographed given that all involved spend weeks practicing. I find that in a lot of films like Star Wars and most Hollywood fare the more traditional fight scenes lack a fluidity and grounded feel. There's no real spark to them, no sense that anyone could get hurt doing this.

There's no really impressive fight scene in The Last Jedi, sure they are at time thrilling and look good but they lack a visceral edge.

If you are looking for great fight scenes then Star Wars would not be where I would go looking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE1M3mS77W4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2piDs9HMn4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7d_UacumGk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Lkl6HX19o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03vo7ggVGsE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvc1Ae-YCU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H-3NKj8yO8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOBTFfHJjV8

Ben v Vader in ANH is over choreographed ???

Tony EH

There's "choreographed" as in "You hit here and you hit there", so the actors don't batter themselves black and blue.

And then there's "choreographed" dance moves.

The prequel "fighting" is more like the latter and never feels like any fighting or danger is involved.

In saying that, the Duel of the Fates scene in the prequels is probably the best scene in the whole prequel trilogy and is, largely, responsible for any goodwill that 'The Phantom Menace' receives.

The best light saber fight in the whole series though belongs to 'Return of the Jedi'. It really does look like Luke wants to beat ten shades out of Vader and it feels like a fight where there are serious odds at stake.

david75

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say the new trilogy has not exactly packed the memorable themes of the earlier films (Rey’s Theme and a few others are strong, if not as instantly iconic The Imperial March or Duel of the Fates). But here’s a really interesting look at the nuances of Williams’ score. Heavy enough on the music theory, but probably needs to be https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/a-field-guide-to-the-musical-leitmotifs-of-star-wars?mbid=social_twitter

Cool article. I dunno about no familiar themes in TLJ. I counted the force theme, Luke’s theme, leais theme, han and leais theme, luke and leias theme, yodas theme, the falcon/asteroid theme from ESB (note for note when the falcon is on Crait being chased). There’s a few more.
Also some nods/similarities to Indy, superman and Harry Potter in the new themes too. It’s a way more interesting score than TFA for sure.