Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Sad Professor

Opening crawl:

"General Leia has died…"

Then show her funeral. Poe (who she is grooming in TLJ) takes over leadership. Explore the other consequences of her death. Maybe it threatens to tear apart the reborn Rebellion, doubts about Poe, etc. At the same time, her death causes new doubts to rise up in Kylo, threatening his consolidation of power. Rey is devastated since Leia had become like a mother to her, she goes back to Jakku to find out what happened to her real parents, etc.

I really don't think it's a big deal. TLJ provides a good send-off for Leia. I don't believe that 9 would have been her film no matter what Kennedy says. JJ didn't direct her very well in TFA and her scenes in that film are pretty weak, which I'd attribute to JJ's seat-of-the-pants-style directing and Kasdan never really knowing how to write her (see how badly written Leia is in ROTJ vs TESB which involved a lot of improvisation). Johnson spent the time with her and was able to bring out the old Leia for the first time since Empire.

pixelburp

Yup, I'd be very surprised if that isn't the arc of Episode IX right there from Sad Prof. In many respects Abrams has been given a scriptwriting gift from Johnson, having had the slate cleaned and some pretty simple threads to knit in the wake of Fisher's death. Someone just need to be standing behind Abrams when he's writing to make sure no 11th hour Mystery Boxes get added

david75

I think or hope JJ uses this opportunity to do something different outside what he usually does to prove to everyone he’s not a one trick pony.
He needs to get away from the mystery box thing. It’s fine in a tv setting to set up a series but there’s no place for it at all at the conclusion of a saga.
Sure he can leave a door open here and there for a follow up saga but please god no with the full on mystery box. Please no.

TerrorFirmer

I'm curious as to how they'll end the trilogy. An awful lot has to happen in Ep10, but I'd really rather they didn't rethread ROTJ and have it predictably culminating in Resistance winning the day in a giant 'do or die' battle and outright defeating the First Order (again).

Be nice if there was a mutiny and the First Order turned on it's leaders in the interest of peace, or something just a bit different to conclude the background narrative of this new trilogy, whatever happens with the primary characters themselves.

Just don't want this to end up in an eternal, hollow cycle of "rebels" fighting the "empire" every couple of decades.

Regards the central plot and Kylo/Rey/etc, my only real overwhelming wish is for Abrams to tie up some of the threads he left hanging open in TFA and weren't addressed in TLJ.

Some questions don't need to be answered, eg. Snoke, while frustrating to a degree, his backstory isn't entirely essential to his character as portrayed in the movies, cheap re-thread of The Emperor as it is.

Whereas The Knights of Ren are surely a vital part in the fall (or, is it rise...) of Kylo Ren, whose backstory is still largely unfilled.

david75

It’s probably a safe bet that the KOR are the students when took with him. You’ll see that in a book or comic explained why and how Snoke lured them. Don’t think you’ll get their story onscreen. Too much to do. But I do think we will see them as kylos henchmen for sure.

It can’t be a ROTJ remake. Rian has cut all possibility of that out.

You might possibly see Kylo be redeemed and him and Rey coming to an accord and peace brought to the galaxy. Who knows.

Sad Professor

pixelburp wrote: »

Yup, I'd be very surprised if that isn't the arc of Episode IX right there from Sad Prof. In many respects Abrams has been given a scriptwriting gift from Johnson, having had the slate cleaned and some pretty simple threads to knit in the wake of Fisher's death. Someone just need to be standing behind Abrams when he's writing to make sure no 11th hour Mystery Boxes get added

Yeah, if anyone thinks a writer likes tying up the previous writer's loose plot threads they are nuts. Guaranteed, Abrams is delighted with where TLJ leaves things for him. All the major story problems he had on TFA Johnson resolved for him, while leaving the Knights of Ren (the one thing he could have had fun with) for the third film.

TLJ may not have left the fans with anything substantial to chew on for the next 2 years in the way that TFA and TESB did, but that's good news for the next film. A lot of ROTJ's script problems stemmed from all the loose ends from TESB that it had to hurriedly resolve. But I still think not creating a few new loose ends was probably a misstep - mystery boxes are great distractions from the story and fans enjoy solving puzzles.

JJ's biggest challenge will be trying to top all of TLJ's emotional moments. TESB was somewhat anti-climatic in a way that TLJ isn't. That was price of Johnson clearing the deck for the next film, I guess.

Tony EH

nix wrote: »

They will CGI, they had the opportunity to do it in this movie but they kept her on, to write her death off, off screen would just be clumsy and take away from her character. Then again if this movie is anything to go by, they have shown how clumsy with the story telling they can be without giving a ****. So anythings possible, nothing will trump super Leia in the WTF department so they can go hog wild.. :rolleyes:

They've painted themselves into a corner by allowing Leia to remain alive. The logical thing to do would have been to kill her off in the space scene and reshoot a small portion of 'The Last Jedi'. She doesn't play any major part afterwards anyway, except for the (kinda bogus) "reunion" with fake Luke. But, there's nothing in there that absolutely essential.

In saying that, I can only imagine the press and fan reaction if, yet again, reshoots were ordered on a Star Wars film. As if reshoots were something that's never been done in the history of cinema.

Kathleen Kennedy comes in for a lot of flak, and to be fair, she's made some really dubious decisions. But, primarily, she's there to return an investment, not to make great films and she's done that. But who'd have her job? The good ship Star Wars is voyaging through some seriously rocky waters, despite the money accrued. But with Ford breaking his leg, the poor writing of 'The Force Awakens' - with associated backlash, the reshoots on 'Rogue One', the disaster from day 1 that is 'Solo', the mixed reception for 'The Last Jedi' and Fisher kicking the bucket while it was still in production, it hasn't been plain sailing to say the least.

Disney (and Kennedy) can't win now in IX. If they CGI Leia, "uncanny valley" will be the phrase of the month again across internetland. If they kill her off in the crawl, people will moan about "disrespect" and all that shite.

Tony EH

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I thought that Admiral Akbar’s death was glossed over a little too quickly.

As far as Disney's concerned, he's just another OT character that needs to be eleminated.

Chewie better watch out.

Sad Professor

I think one of the Knights of Ren will fill Snoke's overtly antagonistic role in 9. So instead of the threat to Kylo coming from above (Snoke/Emperor), it will come from below. One (or perhaps all) of the KOR who sense his weakness and/or wants to be Supreme Leader himself or just think he's wrong.

JJ seemed interested in the KOR's backstory, so maybe he could address Snoke in the process, but explaining where the KOR where during TFA and TLJ will be a problem. As is the fact that they were Luke's students - that's a lot of new characters to have to develop - unless JJ just leaves most of them in masks and suggests they are all brainwashed or something.

Tony EH

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Some questions don't need to be answered, eg. Snoke, while frustrating to a degree, his backstory isn't entirely essential to his character as portrayed in the movies, cheap re-thread of The Emperor as it is.

Whereas The Knights of Ren are surely a vital part in the fall (or, is it rise...) of Kylo Ren, whose backstory is still largely unfilled.

Snoke is actually a big fat gaping hole in the story. We're told that it was Snoke that corrupted Solo. But then in TLA, we see that Solo was probably already "a bit dark" and turned on a dime when Luke switched on a lightsaber. Snoke is nowhere to be seen. Some of that needs a bit of explaining.

That's all be swept under the carpet quietly, like a LOT of things that were thrown into TFA. The political situation is still an absolute mess. So the First Order blow up a couple of planets and all of a sudden the rule the galaxy? WTF? Seriously, NOBODY from anywhere else is prepared to stand up to a creepy man in a bathrobe and his poncy first officer?

None of that makes sense at all.

How did Maz get Anakin's lightsaber? "Ah, who cares? Fuck it." "Look...porgs...hahahahahahaha"

:rolleyes:

Tony EH

Sad Professor wrote: »

I think one of the Knights of Ren will fill Snoke's overtly antagonistic role in 9. So instead of the threat to Kylo coming from above (Snoke/Emperor), it will come from below. One (or perhaps all) of the KOR who sense his weakness and/or wants to be Supreme Leader himself or just think he's wrong.

JJ seemed interested in the KOR's backstory, so maybe he could address Snoke in the process, but explaining where the KOR where during TFA and TLJ will be a problem. As is the fact that they were Luke's students - that's a lot of new characters to have to develop - unless JJ just leaves most of them in masks and suggests they are all brainwashed or something.

The Knights of Ren should have been the main antagonists of this new trilogy, not this First Order shite, which is just the Empire 2.0 because they too cowardly to do anything new in 'The Force Awakens'.

A great angle would have been for the new Jedi order - Luke, Rey and whoever to join forces with the remnants of the Sith and have to battle against Kylo Ren and his KOR who they see as a much worse threat to the stability of the galaxy than anything that came before. The last film could have concluded with the defeat of Ren and the Jedi and Sith becoming one, thus ending thousands of years of conflict between the two sides.

That certainly would have made for a far more interesting enemy and a much better trilogy over all. The First Order is one of the worst things about Star Wars at the moment.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

Snoke is actually a big fat gaping hole in the story. We're told that it was Snoke that corrupted Solo. But then in TLA, we see that Solo was probably already "a bit dark" and turned on a dime when Luke switched on a lightsaber. Snoke is nowhere to be seen. Some of that needs a bit of explaining.

That's all be swept under the carpet quietly, like a LOT of things that were thrown into TFA. The political situation is still an absolute mess. So the First Order blow up a couple of planets and all of a sudden the rule the galaxy? WTF? Seriously, NOBODY from anywhere else is prepared to stand up to a creepy man in a bathrobe and his poncy first officer?

None of that makes sense at all.

How did Maz get Anakin's lightsaber? "Ah, who cares? Fuck it." "Look...porgs...hahahahahahaha"

:rolleyes:

An unanswered question isn’t a plot hole Tony. They’re two very different things. Especially in the middle of saga without the benefit of seeing the final act. We don’t need to know anything about Snoke outside of how he came to lure Ben and the KOR. That I think we will get in 9 to some degree. And certainly in other formats like books.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

An unanswered question isn’t a plot hole Tony. They’re two very different things. Especially in the middle of saga without the benefit of seeing the final act. We don’t need to know anything about Snoke outside of how he came to lure Ben and the KOR. That I think we will get in 9 to some degree. And certainly in other formats like books.

I didn't say it was a "plot hole".

I said it's a "hole" as in something that's currently missing.

TerrorFirmer

david75 wrote: »

An unanswered question isn’t a plot hole Tony. They’re two very different things. Especially in the middle of saga without the benefit of seeing the final act.

Well, this is just it. Ep10 can't remedy the questionable or divisive creative decisions taken but it can fix the majority of the so-called 'problems' or considerable gaps within TFA and TLJ.

I've now seen TFA more than any other Star Wars film (and initially did not like it so much), and TLJ twice in the cinema, and I do feel there's the potential for JJ to knock the trilogy out of the park with a finely crafted final act.

Very different to the OT, where despite a (relatively) poorer effort in ROTJ, it nicely concluded the saga all the same and didn't diminish ANH or TESB.

david75

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Well, this is just it. Ep10 can't remedy the questionable or divisive creative decisions taken but it can fix the majority of the so-called 'problems' or considerable gaps within TFA and TLJ.

I've now seen TFA more than any other Star Wars film (and initially did not like it so much), and TLJ twice in the cinema, and I do feel there's the potential for JJ to knock the trilogy out of the park with a finely crafted final act.

Very different to the OT, where despite a (relatively) poorer effort in ROTJ, it nicely concluded the saga all the same and didn't diminish ANH or TESB.

The original ending for ROTJ had Yoda and Obi wans force ghosts helping Luke in s big duel against Palpatine and Vader. I could see something like that being used in 9.
He’s got a totally blank slate. That’s both exciting and a bit terrifying. If we don’t get force ghost Obi wan talking to Rey (set up for the Kenobi film) and Force ghost Anakin pulling Kylo up on his bvll****, I’m fvckin out.

Canis Lupus

Just back from seeing it. Didn't enjoy it at all. Bit bored by it all.

I'm also left being irrationally annoyed by laser blasts with 'bullet drop' in space...

david75

Has anyone tried to watch the OT since they’ve seen it? I haven’t. Kinda intrigued. Did watch TFA and it changed it in weird ways and it would now that we have more info.

Can’t wait til we have the last one and then we can see the whole triptych of trilogies and see how they play together. And of course Rogue one Solo and presumably / hopefully Kenobi.

Gbear

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I ended up going to the cinema again today to watch The Last Jedi. Ironically the only other film I've ever seen twice in the cinema is The Phantom Menance, though even at that there was ten whole years between those two showings...and yes, even that was better on a second viewing (though partly I suspect it's because Attack of the Clones ended up being what it was, which made me appreciate it's few strengths in a new light).

As for TLJ....I enjoyed it a lot more on the second viewing. I'm not one of those people who outright disliked it first time around either, but what I had considered significant problems suddenly became far less critical and in many cases, even non-issues entirely when I watched it this evening. And, conversely, the best bits of the film stood out even more - not to mention I noticed an absolute mountain of subtle and not-so-subtle stuff I missed entirely first time around.

I've already poured my thoughts into this thread previously so I'm not going to rehash all that stuff about what was right, wrong, off or mishandled. But I do personally feel much better about the whole thing now, to be honest. It's not a perfect movie by any means and does have some problems but it's a great experience all the same.

Having seen it again the other night as well I'd generally agree with this.

The phone call thing, Superleia and any other little bits and pieces I wasn't sold on the first time around didn't bother me at all this time.

The only foible that I felt more negatively about was that I was more bored on Canto Bight, but that was more a function of wanting to get back to the parts of the film that I really enjoyed than thinking it was any worse in itself.

Acosta

david75 wrote: »

Has anyone tried to watch the OT since they’ve seen it? I haven’t. Kinda intrigued. Did watch TFA and it changed it in weird ways and it would now that we have more info.

Can’t wait til we have the last one and then we can see the whole triptych of trilogies and see how they play together. And of course Rogue one Solo and presumably / hopefully Kenobi.

I liked most of the characters introduced in TFA and was looking forward to seeing what they did with them. But all TLJ did for me was make me dislike all of them and as a consequence has taken away much of what i liked about TFA. Can't see myself re-watching it anytime soon.

david75

Acosta wrote: »

I liked most of the characters introduced in TFA and was looking forward to seeing what they did with them. But all TLJ did for me was make me dislike all of them and as a consequence has taken away much of what i liked about TFA. Can't see myself re-watching it anytime soon.

Could be cos they all fail in their respective tasks. Every single one of them. Except Rose and her sister. Even Rey fails. Shock horror.

Acosta

david75 wrote: »

Could be cos they all fail in their respective tasks. Every single one of them. Except Rose and her sister. Even Rey fails. Shock horror.

I just felt they were very badly written, are all fairly superficial and are quite annoying most of the time. It was all very predictable. Have no issue with them failing. As others have said plenty of times the entire thing was terribly executed.

david75

Acosta wrote: »

I just felt they were very badly written, are all fairly superficial and are quite annoying most of the time. It was all very predictable. Have no issue with them failing. As others have said plenty of times the entire thing was terribly executed.

I can see that. I left my first viewing seething and furious. Hated it. Took two more to make me see what it was doing and to love it. Hope it comes round for you at some point.

Acosta

david75 wrote: »

I can see that. I left my first viewing seething and furious. Hated it. Took two more to make me see what it was doing and to love it. Hope it comes round for you at some point.

Fair play but don't think I could do it to myself again. Not in the cinema anyway. I will of course watch it again when it comes out on dvd

david75

Acosta wrote: »

Fair play but don't think I could do it to myself again. Not in the cinema anyway. I will of course watch it again when it comes out on dvd

It might. Most people seem to be enjoying much more second go. Even on this page.

ziggyman17

It was like a parody of a Star Wars movie, why did they feel the need to try and have a lot of slapstick comedy in it ? The floating through space thing was toe curling....

david75

ziggyman17 wrote: »

It was like a parody of a Star Wars movie, why did they feel the need to try and have a lot of slapstick comedy in it ? The floating through space thing was toe curling....

Star Wars is pure dad comedy when it does comedy. We just don’t see it anymore cos we know it. Han in the Death Star ‘everything’s fine here. We’re all fine here. How are you?’
The Poe/Hux joke is at least as bad as that but at least as funny. We won’t even notice it eventually

nix

david75 wrote: »

Star Wars is pure dad comedy when it does comedy. We just don’t see it anymore cos we know it. Han in the Death Star ‘everything’s fine here. We’re all fine here. How are you?’
The Poe/Hux joke is at least as bad as that but at least as funny. We won’t even notice it eventually

Sorry but no, one of them is fluid and funny and always will be (Solo) the other isnt funny or ever will be (Poe) :rolleyes:

david75

nix wrote: »

Sorry but no, one of them is fluid and funny and always will be (Solo) the other isnt funny or ever will be (Poe) :rolleyes:

You didn’t find it funny, fine. Like me You’re probably not who the humour in TLJ appeals to. There’s kids now that can’t even watch the OT cos it looks old and when it’s meant to be funny they’re doing the same eye roll you are. But it’s pretty much the same joke and it’s definitely the same smart arse humour.

Tony EH

The comedy is vastly different.

The older films had slight moments humour. Things that could happen naturally. For the most part anyway.

These ones have gags. Which are set ups for a punchline.

One doesn't intrude. The other destroys the atmosphere completely, because it doesn't belong in the film.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

The comedy is vastly different.

The older films had slight moments humour. Things that could happen naturally. For the most part anyway.

These ones have gags. Which are set ups for a punchline.

One doesn't intrude. The other destroys the atmosphere completely, because it doesn't belong in the film.

It’s the same joke tho. Will say it’s overplayed in TLJ but it’s the same humour from the same place. Both cases Cocky arrogant pilot being cocky and arrogant, ahoy.

The humour in TLJ is for now. It’ll date just as the ot humour did soon after its release. Enough to be forgettable. Unless it’s Yoda. Who is always funny.