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Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

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Comments

  • #4862
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    Yeah the timing is comical, but there's nothing wrong with that. And I disagree that he's dark and brooding. He's clearly trying to scare Rey off in the early scenes and enjoying it. See also the scene where he tickles her hand, and he makes several lighthearted comments about Jakku being nowhere, Han being Han, etc, etc.
    Nothing wrong with comedy in Star Wars, hell there should be humour in it, but comedy is obviously a very subjective thing. I feel like the TFA and TLJ the humour too often seems forced and out of place (and over abundant). I feel like modern filmmakers might feel a little embarrassed with the mostly straight-faced Star Wars universe and try to undercut with humour, which in my opinion somewhat devalues it.

    Happy others find it funny but unfortunately it takes me out of the films.


  • #4863
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Riddle101 wrote: »
    Wouldn't it have been great if the person that Finn and Rose were looking for in the casino was Lando Calrissian? I mean we haven't seen or heard anything about Lando since Return of the Jedi, and I think it would have been a nice cameo to see him in the casino. Another idea would be to have him be the owner of the casino itself.

    It was bad enough having Han Solo revert back to a life of smuggling after being a general in the Rebellion that destroyed the Empire. All because a poor writer couldn't think of something else for him to be.

    But having Lando also revert back to being a bit dodgy, after also being a general in the Rebellion, would have been another nail in this sequel trilogy's, already nearly closed up, coffin.

    There's far too much stupid going on in these films already.


  • #4864
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    uncleoswald wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with comedy in Star Wars, hell there should be humour in it, but comedy is obviously a very subjective thing. I feel like the TFA and TLJ the humour too often seems forced and out of place (and over abundant). I feel like modern filmmakers might feel a little embarrassed with the mostly straight-faced Star Wars universe and try to undercut with humour, which in my opinion somewhat devalues it.

    Happy others find it funny but unfortunately it takes me out of the films.

    It would have been better if he'd just dropped the light saber and walked off.

    You can almost hear a loony tunes sound effect with the toss over the shoulder.


  • #4865
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,518 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    I thought that Admiral Akbar’s death was glossed over a little too quickly.

    I'm glad someone mentioned this. He could have taken the place of that nobody purple haired one, had his character finished off in the ultimate self sacrifice of lightspeed death rather than the cheap "ps he's dead" bit he got.
    Why bin an established (& loved) character for such a hateful nobody?


  • #4866
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    Tony EH wrote: »
    It was bad enough having Han Solo revert back to a life of smuggling after being a general in the Rebellion that destroyed the Empire. All because a poor writer couldn't think of something else for him to be.

    Not sure I'd dismiss it as bad writing but it does seem like whether intend or not these movies are looking less and less like sequels and more like the soft reboots that are all the rage in Hollywood these days.


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  • #4867
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    uncleoswald wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with comedy in Star Wars, hell there should be humour in it, but comedy is obviously a very subjective thing. I feel like the TFA and TLJ the humour too often seems forced and out of place (and over abundant). I feel like modern filmmakers might feel a little embarrassed with the mostly straight-faced Star Wars universe and try to undercut with humour, which in my opinion somewhat devalues it.

    Happy others find it funny but unfortunately it takes me out of the films.

    The humour is definitely different in TFA and TLJ, and you might be onto something about the filmmakers not being secure with this kind of material. I liked it because, frankly, I've always found SW a bit silly, though not in a bad way. I felt like both JJ and Johnson were saying, "it's okay to laugh" and I like that. But it's not like the humour is making light of everything. With TLJ, it's usually placed early in a scene as a way of knocking you off balance and making you doubt what way things are going to go, which in most cases is very dark.

    However, SW was only straight-faced some of the time. For all of the po-faced (and usually badly acted) scenes in ANH, there was several sequences of pure screwball comedy, such as Luke, Han and Leia's interactions on the Death Star, which contained a lot of very modern sounding dialogue (most of which as discussed earlier wasn't written by Lucas). These Death Star scenes are only part of ANH, but they are the scenes JJ, Rian and Kasdan have cited as their favourite, so unsurprisingly it's variations on that sort of tone that they try to re-create.

    SW is a weird movie and I can understand why fans take different things from it. One minute it's Wizard of Oz, then it's Flash Gordon with cheesy dialogue, then it's Hidden Fortress with people being burned to death, then it's Gunga Din with screwball comedy antics, then it's a po-faced WWII movie. None of the sequels capture just how wild and all over the place the first movie is.


  • #4868
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    uncleoswald wrote: »
    Not sure I'd dismiss it as bad writing but it does seem like whether intend or not these movies are looking less and less like sequels and more like the soft reboots that are all the rage in Hollywood these days.

    'The Force Awakens' was a complete reboot. Disney was too scared to do an outright sequel, in case nobody went, due to ten years of the franchise being dead, thanks to the prequels. But, it's indicative of Disney not really understanding Star Wars in general, or its fans.

    But did they really have to use the 1977 template so vigorously?

    And yes, I would call it bad writing. Solo is only a smuggler because that's what he was in 1977. They, literally, were unable to think of an occupation to give him, so they just memberberried it. That's just awful, there's no other word for it.


  • #4869
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    He simply reverted to type. As did Leia. They had a whole life together and broke up and Just went back to what they know. That’s not bad writing. That’s just character arcs and a little real world.

    Be far less believable if they were both exactly where we left the 30 years ago. Happy couple leading the new republic. He has no interest in the political side of it either. He’s off running a racing team and mentoring young drivers. She’s part of the new republic senate and uncovering a rising movement supporting what emerges to be the first order.
    All in bloodline. Really good book about them pre TFA


  • #4870
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Sorry, no, that's just dumb.

    Solo was a GENERAL in the armed force that destroyed the fucking Empire. Why the hell would go back to a life of crime?

    Ridiculous bullshit altogether and no amount of excuses can change that.

    Would it have been that difficult to make him a legit trader or something?


  • #4871
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    Tony EH wrote: »
    They, literally, were unable to think of an occupation to give him
    What were they meant to do, make him a plumber?

    But I think this just show the narrative limitations of the Star Wars universe. I don't know why anyone, bar the money men at Disney, would want endless Star Wars. No matter how much TLJ tries to subvert Star Wars, it's always going to be the same old stories.


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  • #4872
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    uncleoswald wrote: »
    What were they meant to do, make him a plumber?

    Given the poor writing of this trilogy so far, it wouldn't have surprised me.


  • #4873
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    I agree about TFA resetting the status quo, etc, but I like Han going back to being a smuggler as it seems consistent with his character in the OT. It's implied in TESB that he was never really in with the rebels. He went back at the end of ANH to save Luke, not because he believed in the cause. And the only reason he hung around was for Leia (a bit like Finn at the start of TLJ who only cares about Rey). Leaving because of Jabba was just an excuse to force Leia to tell him how she felt. It makes sense that once Han lost Leia he would go back to doing what he did before.


  • #4874
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    It's still ridiculous though.

    Solo's face would have been known everywhere. He helped blow up DS1, was known throughout the Empire as an enemy of that Empire, helped blow up DS2 and was a General, for gods sake. Is there no monetary reward for rank in the rebellion or subsequently the New Republic?

    The idea that he'd just go back to a life of crime, is absurd. Nobody would hire him and there'd be thousands of ex Empire service men and officials out to get him, not to mention the law enforcmement that prevails in the GFFA.

    It's just, almost, insulting TBH.


  • #4875
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Sorry, no, that's just dumb.

    Solo was a GENERAL in the armed force that destroyed the fucking Empire. Why the hell would go back to a life of crime?

    Ridiculous bullshit altogether and no amount of excuses can change that.

    Would it have been that difficult to make him a legit trader or something?


    It really doesn’t matter at all what he was doing. It’s not his story at all. The only point of having him in the film was to give him a fitting end. And I can’t think of a better way to do it than his son killing him.


  • #4876
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    I agree about TFA reseting the status quo, etc, but I like Han going back to being a smuggler as it seems consistent with his character in the OT. It's implied in TESB that he was never really in with the rebels. He went back at the end of ANH to save Luke, not because he believed in the cause. And the only reason he hung around was for Leia (a bit like Finn at the start of TLJ who only cares about Rey). Leaving because of Jabba was just an excuse to force Leia to tell him how she felt. It makes sense that once Han lost Leia he would go back to doing what he did before.

    Exactly, it's the general Han who was off... A typical example of how you try to change yourself to please the person you love, but if it's not internalised you'll turn when the wind changes.


  • #4877
    Falthyron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    david75 wrote: »
    The only point of having him in the film was to give him a fitting end. And I can’t think of a better way to do it than his son killing him.

    Getting to that point could have been done in a much better fashion...


  • #4878
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Tony EH wrote: »
    It's still ridiculous though.

    Solo's face would have been known everywhere. He helped blow up DS1, was known throughout the Empire as an enemy of that Empire, helped blow up DS2 and was a General, for gods sake. Is there no monetary reward for rank in the rebellion or subsequently the New Republic?

    The idea that he'd just go back to a life of crime, is absurd. Nobody would hire him and there'd be thousands of ex Empire service men and officials out to get him, not to mention the law enforcmement that prevails in the GFFA.

    It's just, almost, insulting TBH.

    This is probably the pot calling the kettle black, but you might be over thinking this, Tony. :P


  • #4879
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    david75 wrote: »
    It really doesn’t matter at all what he was doing.

    That's was Disney thought too.

    The old characters are written into this crap to get old bums on seats, because Disney knows that their new characters are shite.


  • #4880
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    strandroad wrote: »
    Exactly, it's the general Han who was off... A typical example of how you try to change yourself to please the person you love, but if it's not internalised you'll turn when the wind changes.

    Yeah, it makes sense to me. And its the only way I can make sense of his arc in ROTJ.


  • #4881
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    This is probably the pot calling the kettle black, but you might be over thinking this, Tony. :P

    Not really. There's just poor writing all over these new films. It's one portion of it, that's all.


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  • #4882
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Look who’s in training. Wonder what that’s for :)


  • #4883
    nix
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,917 ✭✭✭nix


    david75 wrote: »
    Look who’s in training. Wonder what that’s for :)

    Yeah becoming a CGI ghost takes alot of training :rolleyes:


  • #4884
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I really hope it's not for that.


  • #4885
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    nix wrote: »
    Yeah becoming a CGI ghost takes alot of training :rolleyes:

    I meant the Kenobi standalone but him being in 9 as a force ghost would be good.


  • #4886
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    That would be awful. He's Alec Guinness in OT.

    It would be another thing that would just look dumb.


  • #4887
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    You’re a hard man to please Tony :)


  • #4888
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Though if they did put him in 9 as a force ghost they’d age him up. It wouldn’t just be him as he is now. And I Hinn he has a role to play in 9. Remembering obi wan speaks to rey twice in that vision in TFA. Why would Obi wan tell her these are your first steps?
    Gotta be something there.


  • #4889
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    david75 wrote: »
    You’re a hard man to please Tony

    Not really. I just like a bit logic and consistency.

    But Disney are just throwing shite up on the screen and hoping enough people will make excuses for it.

    It's not good enough.

    In saying that, that pic may well show McGregor getting ready for pre-production on the Kenobi film.

    But, if he is in IX, I'm out. I'm already not too bothered about it after 'The Last Jedi' and hearing that Jar Jar is directing again.

    I've better things to do with my money.


  • #4890
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    I think you have unrealistic expectations. Star Wars has to entertain people of all ages. Five to fifty. It’s not some high minded Werzog arty think piece nor should it be.


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  • #4891
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Tony's suggestion that Han's face would have been known everywhere got me thinking: Are there newspapers or television news channels in the SW universe? I did a quick google and it seems it's not even clear if the characters can read or not. Even Luke's myth-making act in TLJ seems to have spread orally.

    Interesting blog post I found:

    How 'The Last Jedi' Books Changed 'Star Wars' Forever: Maybe Luke Skywalker can read:
    In The Last Jedi, Luke Skywalker becomes a folk hero, not merely the subject of a fairy tale. The distinction is important. In Breaking the Magic Spell: Radical Theories of Folk & Fairy Tales, Jack Zipes argues that the difference between a folk tale and a fairy tale is that folk tales are created and disseminated orally by “the people” while fairy tales are the things printed, sold and homogenized by the aristocracy in order to keep the people down.

    “Once folklore is mediated it loses the folk aspect,” Zipes writes. “In the case of the folk tale, its mediate form is the fairy tale, and its context is the culture industry.”

    And yet, The Last Jedi pushes back against some of the bourgeois trappings of the other films. The truth at the center of the movie reveals itself when Luke Skywalker actively employs the oral tradition of storytelling as his primary weapon against the First Order.

    When I asked Johnson how news travels in the Star Wars galaxy, he described it as a “game of telephone,” in which people orally tell each other stories which become legends. (So, again, no journalists, not even state-run media.)


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