Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

To be honest I am already over that.

From day one there was a narrative that this movie was hated by trolls and "MRAs" because it has "too many women and minorities".

Pretty much every outlet I visit for movie news or opinions had some variation of "bad people hate Star Wars and that's great".

Even outlets that do not normally cover movies had some kind of "angry fanboys hate the new Star Wars but that's OK cos fanboys are terrible" article.

If you didn't like the movie you are put into one of the categories.

1. - Alt-Right, MRA, Trump supporter. Basically you don't like the movie because you are a bad and stupid person.

2. - Nitpickers. You don't like the movie because it wasn't 100% perfect and you are a pedantic and stupid person.

3. - Fan Theory Losers. You had loads of theories about the upcoming movie and they were all wrong. You are an angry and stupid person.

I would say that several movies in the past couple of years have flirted with a marketing approach that is essentially "people who don't like this movie are either stupid nerds or evil sexists and racists" in an effort to almost shame the public into at least not criticizing their product.

With the new Star Wars especially it feels like many outlets are embracing this kind of approach and I am not sure to what extent Disney approves of that.

Industry critics are invited to a high profile event where they watch the film. They give the film glowing reviews. Audience reaction to the movie is not as positive. The outlets that published the reviews then proceed to publish attacks on the fans who dislike the film.

The "Alt-Right" stuff doesn't sit well with me because, as I understand it, they are legitimately bad people and it feels very much that this whole thing is being done to make people hesitate before speaking ill of the newest popular thing.

I'd prefer to see passionate fans arguing back and forth over the new Star Wars than see people cowed into silence because if you didn't like the movie then maybe you are one of those Alt-Right Nazis we've been hearing so much about.

But You just said on the previous page you thought that fan edit was funny and the reaction to it funny. It wasn’t created to be funny at all. It was created by some weird insecure manbabies who hate women.
That’s you putting yourself in a category, nobody else. One you claim to be wary of too.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

But You just said on the previous page you thought that fan edit was funny and the reaction to it funny. It wasn’t created to be funny at all. It was created by some weird insecure manbabies who hate women.
That’s you putting yourself in a category, nobody else. One you claim to be wary of too.

I thought it was just created by one guy? One guy I don't know anything at all about tbh.

The fact that the end credits on his edit reads "Written and Direct by YOUR MOMMA" tells me all I need to know about how seriously it was intended to be taken.

It was clearly created to be funny. Whether it was funny or not is a whole other conversation.

So my reaction is "haha that's funny" and your reaction is "this was created by insecure manbabies who hate women". Now what? You insist that I am wrong?

Reati

Sad Professor wrote: »

It wasn't intended that way, but I think TLJ works really well as a send-off for Leia. We see her pass the torch to Poe when she tells everyone to follow him. We see her use the Force for the first time.

erm? She uses the force throughout the OT and in TFA?

She just doesn't float through space while dead use the force...

seamus

Saruhashi wrote: »

It was clearly created to be funny. Whether it was funny or not is a whole other conversation.

I appreciate that possibility.

It's a *lot* of effort though for a bad joke.

Even good editing jokes (see the BrokeBack to the Future trailer) are only a couple of minutes long and take a serious amount of effort. Roughly chopping out 80+ minutes of footage and producing the result is several days worth of work.

Granted, not having watched it, it could just be a 46 minute rick roll.

Reati wrote: »

erm? She uses the force throughout the OT and in TFA?

She just doesn't float through space while dead use the force...

She instinctually uses it, she feels it and she's aware of it. This is the first time she intentionally uses it though.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

I thought it was just created by one guy? One guy I don't know anything at all about tbh.

The fact that the end credits on his edit reads "Written and Direct by YOUR MOMMA" tells me all I need to know about how seriously it was intended to be taken.

It was clearly created to be funny. Whether it was funny or not is a whole other conversation.

So my reaction is "haha that's funny" and your reaction is "this was created by insecure manbabies who hate women". Now what? You insist that I am wrong?

You’re not wrong if you found it funny. Go for it. I don’t think it was created to be funny though.

david75

seamus wrote: »

I appreciate that possibility.
It's a *lot* of effort though for a joke.

She instinctually uses it, she feels it and she's aware of it. This is the first time she intentionally uses it though.

I think it’s instinct and the most basic survival instinct in the space scene. I don’t think it’s intentional. Rian Johnson said in that empire podcast interview it’s purely instinctual in that moment the force acting through her rather than her manipulating it intentionally but we don’t know that luke hasn’t shown her some basics outside ‘survival’ also.
It’s confusing people miss her using the force throughout the films. Empathically yeah but it’s there for sure.

nix

Reati wrote: »

erm? She uses the force throughout the OT and in TFA?

She just doesn't float through space while dead use the force...

I wouldnt say Leia "used" the force at all in the OT, more so Luke used it to commune with her, whether he was able to do it with just her because shes force sensitive or if he can do it with anybody is up to speculation.

Now I've no problem with Leia being taught the ways of the force and pulling out force powers in the movie, but to survive the vaccum of space and fly through space is absurd, and from what i can see the majority agree.

I think a better way of her showing off the extent of how far her force powers had grown since the OT, instead of her reviving and flying through space, maybe show her still alive in space but then fade away/disappear. And then have her appear to Luke as a force ghost, have the touching final scene and convince him to help the rebellion, and then have him do what he had done, and that would have been a great send off to both of them.. Too much? cant be worse than breathing and flying through space :mad:

Mickeroo

nix wrote: »

I wouldnt say Leia "used" the force at all in the OT, more so Luke used it to commune with her, whether he was able to do it with just her because shes force sensitive or if he can do it with anybody is up to speculation.

Now I've no problem with Leia being taught the ways of the force and pulling out force powers in the movie, but to survive the vaccum of space and fly through space is absurd, and from what i can see the majority agree.

I think a better way of her showing off the extent of how far her force powers had grown since the OT, instead of her reviving and flying through space, maybe show her still alive in space but then fade away/disappear. And then have her appear to Luke as a force ghost, have the touching final scene and convince him to help the rebellion, and then have him do what he had done, and that would have been a great send off to both of them.. Too much? cant be worse than breathing and flying through space :mad:

That would have caused even more uproar because I'm pretty sure the force ghost/evaporating thing is something only masters of the force have ever managed to do. She would have needed very little force power to move herself in a vacuum so even though it was a bit daft it's more plausible than force ghost stuff I would have thought. I would think her surviving the explosion in the first place was the less believable aspect of that scene rather than the force stuff anyway tbh.

david75

‘Show me again grandfather, the power of the dark side’

So knowing what we do about Snoke, is it safe to assume he was putting visions of Vader into kylos mind to mislead and control him? Snoke as Vader lecturing or even teaching him dark side stuff or even rewiring and warping his mind like some mk ultra stuff to make him more pliable and subservient?

Sad Professor

david75 wrote: »

‘Show me again grandfather, the power of the dark side’

So knowing what we do about Snoke, is it safe to assume he was putting visions of Vader into kylos mind to mislead and control him? Snoke as Vader lecturing or even teaching him dark side stuff or even rewiring and warping his mind like some mk ultra stuff to make him more pliable and subservient?

Or maybe it really was Vader or rather the Vader side of Anakin's personality.

You know this already from the art of book, but Sith ghosts were part of George's plan for the Luke/Jedi temple storyline. It would be an interesting thing to return to, especially with Luke in the spiritual realm now too.

Anakin going to Jedi heaven at the end of ROTJ for killing someone who he already wanted to kill really bothers me. They can't retcon that now, but they could suggest that part of him went somewhere else.

Mickeroo

Sad Professor wrote: »

Or maybe it really was Vader or rather the Vader side of Anakin's personality.

You know this already from the art of book, but Sith ghosts were part of George's plan for the Luke/Jedi temple storyline. It would be an interesting thing to return to, especially with Luke in the spiritual realm now too.

Anakin going to Jedi heaven at the end of ROTJ for killing someone who he already wanted to kill really bothers me. They can't retcon that now, but they could suggest that part of him went somewhere else.

Would it not ruin his redemption in ROTJ a bit if it turned out his force ghost was grooming his grandson to the dark side though?

david75

YEah it kinda would undo the whole thing about his redemption.

Sad Professor

Mickeroo wrote: »

Would it not ruin his redemption in ROTJ a bit if it turned out his force ghost was grooming his grandson to the dark side though?

Yes, so they would have to explain it as some part of him wasn't redeemed, that there was a split in his spirit or something like that. Or that he wasn't fully redeemed despite briefly being seen next Obi-wan and Yoda. It would be very clunky and unlikely to happen since they'd probably have to involve Hayden and nobody wants that.

It's an attractive idea to me simply because I don't buy his redemption arc in ROTJ. If George had just left out ghost Anakin I would have been fine with everything else.

nix

Mickeroo wrote: »

That would have caused even more uproar because I'm pretty sure the force ghost/evaporating thing is something only masters of the force have ever managed to do. She would have needed very little force power to move herself in a vacuum so even though it was a bit daft it's more plausible than force ghost stuff I would have thought. I would think her surviving the explosion in the first place was the less believable aspect of that scene rather than the force stuff anyway tbh.

Well its something that can be taught, which is something they have been emphasising on since the prequels, and given the time since the OT and NT, im sure she could have mastered a lot. A stretch no doubt from what we've known/seen from her, but flying 50 feet through space after being blown up is more of a stretch if you ask me

nix

Sad Professor wrote: »

they'd probably have to involve Hayden and nobody wants that.

Haha poor Hayden, his portrayal of Anakin really ruined him.. He had shown some good acting chops prior to the prequels, from what ive heard anyway. Georges directing really done a number on his future acting career :pac:

david75

nix wrote: »

Well its something that can be taught, which is something they have been emphasising on since the prequels, and given the time since the OT and NT, im sure she could have mastered a lot. A stretch no doubt from what we've known/seen from her, but flying 50 feet through space after being blown up is more of a stretch if you ask me

Well it took Obi wan 20 years to master it it seems so doubtful Leia has learned it and it wouldn’t work if they’d gone that way with her cos it undoes everything they’ve done with the tiny few surviving Jedi we have in the OT & ST up to this point.

nix

david75 wrote: »

Well it took Obi wan 20 years to master it it seems so doubtful Leia has learned it and it wouldn’t work if they’d gone that way with her cos it undoes everything they’ve done with the tiny few surviving Jedi we have in the OT & ST up to this point.

No it just took Obi 20 years to have the chance to try it out, it requiring one to be deceased and all

david75

I’d 100% be up for Hayden coming back as force ghost Anakin. If they did it it would round out the decision to put him in at the end of Jedi perfectly and you could give him an important storyline, trying to get Kylo to snap out of it.

david75

nix wrote: »

No it just took Obi 20 years to have the chance to try it out, it requiring one to be deceased and all

It wasn’t just the ability to choose your moment to join the force though. He was lead in how to commune with Qui Gon and later to manifest with Yoda and Luke so it seems there’s a lot more to it.
How much screen time do you want to give to show Leia knows all this? If they went that way with her there’s be an equally huge backlash as with the space Mary poppins decision.

It would break the established in universe rules of how the force works whereas the space moment actually operates within those rules, it’s just executed really really really bizarrely

nix

david75 wrote: »

It would break the established in universe rules of how the force works whereas the space moment actually operates within those rules, it’s just executed really really really bizarrely

If she was in a protective suit of some kind i would agree with you, but being out in space that long would kill anybody after 15 seconds, force powers or not

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

I’d 100% be up for Hayden coming back as force ghost Anakin. If they did it it would round out the decision to put him in at the end of Jedi perfectly and you could give him an important storyline, trying to get Kylo to snap out of it.

Lets not accept one fúck-up by making another. Luke remembers Anakin as Sebastian Shaw, not as Hayden. The same would apply to Obi-Wan. Any use of Obi-Wan in Episode IX should only be in the form of Alec Guinness - which, I hope, is a road they don't go down.

david75

nix wrote: »

If she was in a protective suit of some kind i would agree with you, but being out in space that long would kill anybody after 15 seconds, force powers or not

I’d agree except there’s an in universe precedent somewhere about the force cocooning someone to save them in the same situation. I don’t know if it’s in a book or comic or something. Also kanan in Rebels was pushed into space by Maul and he too survived. So it’s not a new thing.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

Lets not accept one fúck-up by making another. Luke remembers Anakin as Sebastian Shaw, not as Hayden. The same would apply to Obi-Wan. Any use of Obi-Wan in Episode IX should only be in the form of Alec Guinness - which, I hope, is a road they don't go down.

Well not anymore. Luke seeing Hayden’s Anakin is the official canon now if we like it or not. Interesting idea about Obi wan though. They don’t have to make it Old obi wan at all. If he was appearing to luke yeah. But Luke is dead.

If he was appearing to Rey they could have him be a younger Obi wan. Ewan aged up a bit. She’s never seen him and doesn’t know what he’s supposed to look like. That would also be your link to the Kenobi film.

seamus

nix wrote: »

If she was in a protective suit of some kind i would agree with you, but being out in space that long would kill anybody after 15 seconds, force powers or not

With all due respect to the fact that physics has always been optional in Star Wars, being exposed to the vacuum of space is not generally regarded as particularly dangerous. You'll die of suffocation long before anything else. Any notion of popping eyes, boiling blood, or spontaneous freezing is overplayed. It's not that much of a vacuum to cause serious damage and heat doesn't travel very well in a vacuum. So provided you can get back to oxygen before brain damage sets in, you should be fine.

david75

seamus wrote: »

With all due respect to the fact that physics has always been optional in Star Wars, being exposed to the vacuum of space is not generally regarded as particularly dangerous. You'll die of suffocation long before anything else. Any notion of popping eyes, boiling blood, or spontaneous freezing is overplayed. It's not that much of a vacuum to cause serious damage and heat doesn't travel very well in a vacuum. So provided you can get back to oxygen before brain damage sets in, you should be fine.

There’s been a lot of debate about that here for sure. She does sense the attack coming and seems to take a deep breath. Whether or not she knows what’s about to happen to her personally is more interesting given kylo doesn’t fire, his wingmen do.

And he definitely shoots one of them for doing it. Which is cool.

nix

seamus wrote: »

With all due respect to the fact that physics has always been optional in Star Wars, being exposed to the vacuum of space is not generally regarded as particularly dangerous. You'll die of suffocation long before anything else. Any notion of popping eyes, boiling blood, or spontaneous freezing is overplayed. It's not that much of a vacuum to cause serious damage and heat doesn't travel very well in a vacuum. So provided you can get back to oxygen before brain damage sets in, you should be fine.

Well they try to stick to real physics, going by the movies, Leia is the only person we see in space, and she just happens to take a nap in it and then wake up and fly through it.. And thats the only real "someone outside in space" scene we get in the movies, though all evidence up until the point leads us to believe space operates the same as it does for us.. Excluding the odd gravity oversights, which i boil down to mistakes by the director :P

I do have memories of people getting sucked out into space after an explosion and looking immediately dead floating in space, but that could be from battlestar... or anything..

I'd say the reason they dont show it more in star wars is because its a kids film, and any deaths in it seem to be swift and quick and then the camera changes back to whats going on elsewhere pretty fast, someone floating dead in space might be deemed crude and upset some "younglings" :pac:

david75

The sad thing is the music playing during that scene is amongst the best in all Star Wars and it’s been missed completely given what’s happening on screen.

david75

Disney’s big release for this coming Christmas is the reboot of Mary Poppins.

Draw your own conclusions

Mickeroo

nix wrote: »

Well they try to stick to real physics, going by the movies, Leia is the only person we see in space, and she just happens to take a nap in it and then wake up and fly through it.. And thats the only real "someone outside in space" scene we get in the movies, though all evidence up until the point leads us to believe space operates the same as it does for us.. Excluding the odd gravity oversights, which i boil down to mistakes by the director :P

Don't forget the millennium falcon banks when it turns in space and there's sound too so I'm not even sure it's actually a vacuum :pac:

david75

It is a weird thing to focus on when you have lightsabers, sound In space, force superpowers and ghosts n all that.