Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

1…173174176178179…221

Comments

  • #5252
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I've never read any star wars books. If you had to pick one, which would you recommend?


  • #5253
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I've never read any star wars books. If you had to pick one, which would you recommend?

    Of the new canon? Tough call. They’re nearly all good to great.
    Bloodline or Lost Stars. Lost stars is officially YA but it doesn’t read like it. It’s the events of the OT seen from a totally different angle and you’ll tear through it in no time.

    Bloodline as Star Wars intrigue done right and establishing the set up and political landscape after ROTJ and before TFA from Leias perspective. It’s the best of the new canon.

    Avoid the aftermath trilogy. They’re just not good at all.


  • #5254
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Falthyron wrote: »
    I think the title will allude to 'balance' as I think both Rey and Ren will die in Episode IX. The end of the Skywalker line, the end of tension between good and bad/light and darkness. As long as one survives, there can never be balance in the strictest sense of the word. Then again, it is Disney, so the good guys will win and Rey will survive - most likely.
    I think TLJ pretty much clarified a theme that's been alluded to throughout the series - that the light/dark flip-flopping will never end. Force users will always exist, and as the Dark side gets too powerful, "light" force users will rise to meet it.

    The prophecy of Anakin being the chosen one, "balanced" the force which had become too heavy in favour of the "light" side. One could even say that Anakin's "virgin birth" came about because the Jedi were too powerful; the force conjured up a balancing power.

    Then the dark side took control, Luke arrived and rebalanced it. And Ben rebalanced it back to Dark. And Rey rose in the light side to meet him.

    There are talks of additional trilogies in the making. So it seems unlikely that they will ever "resolve" the Star Wars universe, it'll just be a series of struggles between both sides of the force. But each trilogy may be a relatively self-contained arc, that can be watched in isolation, and just "hands off" the story to the next trilogy which follows a new set of characters.

    One might even suggest there's a pattern; The Dark Side won in the first trilogy, the Light Side won in the second - will Ben defeat Rey and take control of the galaxy at the end of Ep 9?


  • #5255
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    It’s in one of the books somewhere but the Sith took the prophesy about the chosen one to refer to them just as the Jedi did.

    The whole chosen one / balance thing was almost a throwaway line by Lucas. He never wrote any backstory or even fleshed it out anywhere else. It was just to make Anakins story a little deeper, when it didn’t need to be really.


  • #5256
    Saruhashi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Saruhashi


    seamus wrote: »
    One might even suggest there's a pattern; The Dark Side won in the first trilogy, the Light Side won in the second - will Ben defeat Rey and take control of the galaxy at the end of Ep 9?

    While it would be interesting, I don't think it would be a good fit for Star Wars.

    Feels like "good vs evil with good winning in the end" is the Star Wars formula.

    Pretty interesting. I feel like if I go to a pizza place and they try to serve me ramen noodles I am going to say "Oi! I'm here for pizza!". If I like surprises though... *shrugs* ...maybe I'd even accept a tall glass of green space titty milk.


  • Advertisement
  • #5257
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Ever had noodles on a pizza?

    That's what the next Star Wars film will be. :pac:


  • #5258
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    THis is where all our shopping lists of personal demands come in. TFA was a greatest hits mix tape of the OT. TLJ was a plateful of WTF we’d never seen or expected to see. 9 can only be its own beast. So if there’s a lesson it’s probably that we should drop all our demands and expectations cos we’re never ever getting them and we’re only gonna be unhappy with what we do get cos it doesn’t meet our demands and head canon. I think we’ll thank TLJ for this lesson.


  • #5259
    Falthyron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    Saruhashi wrote: »
    The only downside I can see is profits. The difference between having Han and Leia and Luke in the new Star Wars and not having them could be in the region of half a billion dollars.

    I think that tying everything together by making people have connections that simply aren't necessary (like how Kylo Ren just HAD to be related to someone from the OT and it was such a big deal that Rey wasn't) is done because that's what the marketing department says will be most profitable. Yoda is back everyone! 'Member Yoda?

    I think you are sort of on the money (no pun intended) here. My viewing is that Disney wanted the old guard in the new films because they needed the fans of the past to come and see the new film, but more importantly, bring their children along - much like how they were introduced to the original Star Wars. Disney used nostalgia to introduce the next generation to Star Wars; they had no interest in satisfying the needs of the original fans.


  • #5260
    Falthyron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    david75 wrote: »
    THis is where all our shopping lists of personal demands come in. TFA was a greatest hits mix tape of the OT. TLJ was a plateful of WTF we’d never seen or expected to see. 9 can only be its own beast. So if there’s a lesson it’s probably that we should drop all our demands and expectations cos we’re never ever getting them and we’re only gonna be unhappy with what we do get cos it doesn’t meet our demands and head canon. I think we’ll thank TLJ for this lesson.

    Shut up and put up then? The reason why so many people on this thread can produce interesting concepts and ideas about where the trilogy should have went, or what should have been done differently is because nobody here has a financial interest. We aren't the only ones to come up interesting concepts, you can bet that the Hollywood writers came up with these ideas too, but didn't run with it. The only reason being: there is a much bigger plan in place over the Star Wars product than we realise. Far greater than a two hour feature film. So, I don't think we need to drop our demands and expectations, rather we need to re-align them and focus them through a Disney corporate strategy lens. You can start by asking: "If the new kids of today are our target audience, what can we put in the film/what kind of a message can we convey, that will lead to box office success, and more importantly, a boost to our merchandise and other product range?"


  • #5261
    Sabre0001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Sabre0001


    Rather than cutting Leia from the rest of the movie, should they have cut the space walk instead? That moment had many people thinking, "Ah, so this is it for Carrie; that's really sad" and then she went and did her Superman, which detracted from the emotional impact. She could have been injured in the explosion and carried on with the rest of the film from there.

    🤪



  • Advertisement
  • #5262
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Falthyron wrote: »
    I think you are sort of on the money (no pun intended) here. My viewing is that Disney wanted the old guard in the new films because they needed the fans of the past to come and see the new film, but more importantly, bring their children along - much like how they were introduced to the original Star Wars. Disney used nostalgia to introduce the next generation to Star Wars; they had no interest in satisfying the needs of the original fans.

    Which is why this stuff is dying a death in China. Theatres have already pulled it after a week or so, which is mad and a serious loss of revenue for the mouse.

    Disney's Star Wars is so reliant on "member", that it just has no legs over there and the public just thought it was shite and didn't go.

    In America, it has solely relied on 30 and 40 somethings bringing their sprogs.

    Maybe, when they get all of that out of their system, they might start making original films. But, that still doesn't eliminate the other problems with Disney's Star Wars, which are legion.


  • #5263
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Sabre0001 wrote: »
    Rather than cutting Leia from the rest of the movie, should they have cut the space walk instead? That moment had many people thinking, "Ah, so this is it for Carrie; that's really sad" and then she went and did her Superman, which detracted from the emotional impact. She could have been injured in the explosion and carried on with the rest of the film from there.

    Absolutely. That would have worked too.

    That scene should have been seen for what it was...laughable.

    A better idea would have her sensing through Kylo what was about to happen and getting everybody off the bridge before it blew, but she gets caught in the blast, so the (pointless) coma section can still play out.

    It's still her using the force, but it's subtler and not so farcical.

    But, I've heard that it was Kathleen Kennedy's idea to have her Mary Poppins back into the ship...so, make up your own mind who's to blame for that silliness. Another director might have said "feck off".


  • #5264
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Which is why this stuff is dying a death in China. Theatres have already pulled it after a week or so, which is mad and a serious loss of revenue for the mouse.

    No. It's dying a death in China because the Chinese don't like Star Wars and never have.


  • #5265
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,429 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    No. It's dying a death in China because the Chinese don't like Star Wars and never have.

    That's what I'm saying. It has no legs over there, cos they never had any relation to the original films.

    In the US, it's almost totally reliant on such factors.


  • #5266
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Tony EH wrote: »
    That's what I'm saying. It has no legs over there, cos they never had any relation to the original films.

    Yeah but it’s not due to some nostalgic approach adopted by Disney. Nostalgia, no nostalgia, the Chinese just aren’t interested. It’s a marketing problem created by the fact that the movie has “Star Wars” in the title and looks like a Star Wars movie.


  • #5267
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Falthyron wrote: »
    Shut up and put up then? The reason why so many people on this thread can produce interesting concepts and ideas about where the trilogy should have went, or what should have been done differently is because nobody here has a financial interest. We aren't the only ones to come up interesting concepts, you can bet that the Hollywood writers came up with these ideas too, but didn't run with it. The only reason being: there is a much bigger plan in place over the Star Wars product than we realise. Far greater than a two hour feature film. So, I don't think we need to drop our demands and expectations, rather we need to re-align them and focus them through a Disney corporate strategy lens. You can start by asking: "If the new kids of today are our target audience, what can we put in the film/what kind of a message can we convey, that will lead to box office success, and more importantly, a boost to our merchandise and other product range?"


    And again I’ll say they only possible at all you can make them take notice of your demands or expectations is not to go see it. We don’t have an input to the creative process we only have a choice to give them our money or not. There’s a huge amount of people saying they’re now done with Star Wars after the last Jedi. A lot of them lifelong fans. I din believe them but that’s beside the point.
    But if enough people do that they’ll take notice.
    People didn’t like the severe changes in the recipe and meeting every single persons notion of what Star Wars is, is impossible. But let’s not delude ourselves by saying if we demand things to be a certain way it will affect what happens creatively. It won’t.
    If enough people back away and don’t spend they might possibly walk back on taking creative risks in future but that’s all and that would be a real shame.
    Cos then as with TFA the complaints would start that they’re playing it safe again.
    It’s a lose lose situation so the only thing they can do is carry on with it.

    Read somewhere They’ve now made $9billion in total on Star Wars. So they’re doing something right whether we like it or not.


  • #5268
    Falthyron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    david75 wrote: »
    And again I’ll say they only possible at all you can make them take notice of your demands or expectations is not to go see it. We don’t have an input to the creative process we only have a choice to give them our money or not. There’s a huge amount of people saying they’re now done with Star Wars after the last Jedi. A lot of them lifelong fans. I din believe them but that’s beside the point.
    But if enough people do that they’ll take notice.
    People didn’t like the severe changes in the recipe and meeting every single persons notion of what Star Wars is, is impossible. But let’s not delude ourselves by saying if we demand things to be a certain way it will affect what happens creatively. It won’t.
    If enough people back away and don’t spend they might possibly walk back on taking creative risks in future but that’s all and that would be a real shame.
    Cos then as with TFA the complaints would start that they’re playing it safe again.
    It’s a lose lose situation so the only thing they can do is carry on with it.

    Read somewhere They’ve now made $9billion in total on Star Wars. So they’re doing something right whether we like it or not.

    Yeah, a marketing budget of $200 million. As I said before, if you bombard someone with enough of the same message, it will (at the very least) pique their interest.

    Besides, money made should never be considered a component in deciding what is right and what is wrong. Twilight made a lot of money too. Doesn't make it a good franchise.


  • #5269
    Slydice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Storytime by Rian Johnson on twitter today...

    Tweet 1:
    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954398041598918656

    Tweet 2:
    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954398119185256449

    Tweet 3:
    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954398199694770176

    Tweet 4:
    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954398249346936833

    Tweet 5:
    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954398324760563712

    Tweet 6:
    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954398403986731008

    Tweet 7:
    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954398483112275969


  • #5270
    Vladimir Poontang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Vladimir Poontang


    He hasn't a clue.


  • #5271
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    ABout what?
    At this point he just seems to be taking his cock out and rubbin it in all the butthurt manbabies faces. And he’s succeeding. Read some of the replies.
    It’s amazing seeing grown men respond and carry on like that. Laughable actually.


  • Advertisement
  • #5272
    Saruhashi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Saruhashi


    david75 wrote: »
    ABout what?
    At this point he just seems to be taking his cock out and rubbin it in all the butthurt manbabies faces. And he’s succeeding. Read some of the replies.
    It’s amazing seeing grown men respond and carry on like that. Laughable actually.

    https://twitter.com/carlotreviso/status/954419310230999041


  • #5273
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    We use forks and knives since childhood. Probably haven’t stabbed ourselves at any point.

    That thread is gold.

    https://twitter.com/heathdwilliams/status/954426946930212864


  • #5274
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Very satisfying to see Johnson out-nerd all the nerds at their own game.

    Anyway, interesting thing to consider about Luke’s Force projection: it has no effect whatsoever on the plot. If Luke had lifted his X-Wing out of the sea, flown to Crait in person, faced Kylo and died while providing a distraction for his friends to get away, the outcome (at least in terms of plot) would have been the same.

    So why did Johnson do the Force projection? The answer lies in the story rather than the plot. There are a few things you get from Luke’s Force projection that you wouldn’t have got otherwise:

    - Luke dies peacefully rather than violently. He goes out on his own terms just like Obi-wan but you also get the final moment of closure of him seeing the twin suns again. This was obviously a creative choice but also one intended to reflect character.
    - Luke demonstrates his immense power but in a non-violent way consistent with Yoda’s teaching that he use the Force for "knowledge and defence, never attack".
    - Luke wins despite technically losing, echoing his "I am a Jedi" moment in ROTJ. As with the Emperor who was struck dumb by Luke's act, Kylo is left looking foolish, all his powers and skills useless against Luke's pacifist refusal to play his game.

    This is all very much in keeping with the spirit of Obi-wan’s sacrifice in ANH. Lucas was very keen to show that Obi-wan was already gone before Vader’s lightsaber struck him. I mean, he would have been killed anyway but Lucas went out of his way to show that Obi-wan choose to sacrifice himself. Johnson does the same thing with Luke and, like Lucas, for story rather than plot-based reasons.


  • #5275
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    david75 wrote: »
    We use forks and knives since childhood. Probably haven’t stabbed ourselves at any point.

    That thread is gold.

    https://twitter.com/heathdwilliams/status/954426946930212864

    That's not a great analogy. I played with fire and burned myself many, many times.


  • #5276
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    https://twitter.com/hackswithhaggs/status/954444772105768960

    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954446559814430721

    https://twitter.com/achisling/status/954449036769218561

    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954449841957957632

    https://twitter.com/achisling/status/954450600674123776

    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954450836964306944


  • #5277
    Vladimir Poontang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Vladimir Poontang


    Delusional Star Wars fans remind me of the very worst Guns N'Roses fans that defended the atrocity that was Chinese Democracy and NUGNR.

    They have SOOO MUCH in common it is hilarious :D


  • #5278
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That's not a great analogy. I played with fire and burned myself many, many times.

    It’s a particularly stupid knit to pick as the guy did in his comment. Anyone can use a lightsaber without training. In universe you’re going to know it’s a dangerous weapon. So is a knife. So you’re careful with it. Not everyone would last long in a fight against someone who is trained but that’s another story.


  • #5279
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Vladimir Poontang wrote: »
    Delusional Star Wars fans remind me of the very worst Guns N'Roses fans that defended the atrocity that was Chinese Democracy and NUGNR.

    They have SOOO MUCH in common it is hilarious :D


    Grown men Shrieking that Rian Johnson ruined Star Wars and raped their childhood is way funnier in fairness.
    And him schooling them on twitter while telling them to go fvck themselves, and they don’t even realise it? is funnier again


  • #5280
    Vladimir Poontang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Vladimir Poontang


    david75 wrote: »
    Grown men Shrieking that Rian Johnson ruined Star Wars and raped their childhood is way funnier in fairness.
    And him schooling them on twitter while telling them to go fvck themselves, and they don’t even realise it? is funnier again

    Actually he comes across as a thin-skinned hyper sensitive sad sack.

    You'd think he'd have better things to be doing. Clearly all the criticism bothers him greatly.


  • Advertisement
  • #5281
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Having a civil, lighthearted and respectful conversation with critics about the film he spent several years of his life working on. What a sad sack!

    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954434176790360064


Advertisement