Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

david75

That’s could explain one nonsensical decision in that sequence. Kylo had two guards about to skewer him and for some reason he stabs his lightsaber into the floor and Rey is forced to dance around him to stab them.

Makes sense.

david75

Can kylo ren be redeemed in episode 9? I don’t know. Screenrant doesnt Think he can be
https://screenrant.com/kylo-ren-redemption-episode-9-last-jedi/

david75

Cool interview with Rian. On Rey Snoke and the backlash especially
http://www.slashfilm.com/rian-johnson-interview-highlights/


You can find the whole interview here
https://dcs.megaphone.fm/PPY2742138537.mp3?key=9f697a4f8e96e1a1f8b1e26a1a264fbb

Falthyron

Rian and the many options for Rey's parents.

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2018/01/26/the-last-jedi-director-reveals-options-he-considered-for-reys-parents

I guess this proves that JJ never told Rian who her intended parents were, or Rian chose not to go along with it. Either way, it pretty much negates the significance of this piece of information. If Rey had links to Skywalker, Kylo, Obi-Wan, or even Qui-Gonn then this would have broader implications to the overall plot and Skywalker saga. However, as it would now seem to be an open ended question JJ was happy to tease us with and leave for whoever came next to resolve, I guess it never really had any significant meaning to begin with.

Furthermore, if JJ decides to shít all over Rian's answer (as could be the case) by making her related to Obi-Wan (let's say) and that Kylo was just messing with her, then we know its all a load of bollox.

To summarise:
TFA: JJ didn't decide Rey's parents / JJ decided who her parents were but Rian didn't like it.
TLJ: Rian knew who her parents were, but changed it to nobody / Rian didn't know who Rey's parents were because JJ didn't decide this.

This will all play out pretty badly within the context of the trilogy (after Episode IX). If JJ stays with Rian's answer then the whole mystery of who is Rey, who are her parents loses all resonance as being a bit of a damp squib or non-event. So why have it in TFA to begin with? If JJ decides Kylo was lying then it will come across as even more of 'making it up as they go along' presentation. We know Rian had to come up with an answer so he did, and then JJ goes and says: "A-ha! Gotcha!".

Personally, I hope they just leave it as it is. To go back now and say "well, actually..." would be a massive eye-rolling moment, particularly as we know Rey's parentage had never been decided from day one.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

Rian and the many options for Rey's parents.

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2018/01/26/the-last-jedi-director-reveals-options-he-considered-for-reys-parents

I guess this proves that JJ never told Rian who her intended parents were, or Rian chose not to go along with it. Either way, it pretty much negates the significance of this piece of information. If Rey had links to Skywalker, Kylo, Obi-Wan, or even Qui-Gonn then this would have broader implications to the overall plot and Skywalker saga. However, as it would now seem to be an open ended question JJ was happy to tease us with and leave for whoever came next to resolve, I guess it never really had any significant meaning to begin with.

Furthermore, if JJ decides to shít all over Rian's answer (as could be the case) by making her related to Obi-Wan (let's say) and that Kylo was just messing with her, then we know its all a load of bollox.

To summarise:
TFA: JJ didn't decide Rey's parents / JJ decided who her parents were but Rian didn't like it.
TLJ: Rian knew who her parents were, but changed it to nobody / Rian didn't know who Rey's parents were because JJ didn't decide this.

This will all play out pretty badly within the context of the trilogy (after Episode IX). If JJ stays with Rian's answer then the whole mystery of who is Rey, who are her parents loses all resonance as being a bit of a damp squib or non-event. So why have it in TFA to begin with? If JJ decides Kylo was lying then it will come across as even more of 'making it up as they go along' presentation. We know Rian had to come up with an answer so he did, and then JJ goes and says: "A-ha! Gotcha!".

Personally, I hope they just leave it as it is. To go back now and say "well, actually..." would be a massive eye-rolling moment, particularly as we know Rey's parentage had never been decided from day one.

Don’t know how you can take that from it. Johnson repeatedly is saying the hardest thing she could be told is she’s nobody and writing the script as TFA was being made nobody knew Who is Rey would be the big thing everyone would be going on about.
So fandom worked itself up into this lather, way more than it should have. It really doesn’t matter to me if she’s nobody but it would be cool to give her an answer as to why they left her or had to. That’s a subject every orphaned child in the whole world struggles with in their lives. Rejection and abandonment issues are way more real and interesting to let play than giving her a ‘royal’ lineage.

That said I hope she is given an answer and I hope it’s just that they’re were nobody’s but had to leave her for her own protection.
It would indeed be eye roll at this point if JJ makes her a Kenobi or Skywalker in 9.


Ps at no point in TFA do we see her wondering who she is. She knows. We don’t know. We just ran with speculations on it.

Tony EH

All of this "who's Rey" stuff bring sup a question.

How did Kylo Ren know that she's a nobody. He hadn't a bloody clue who she was when he met her a day or two before.

Mickeroo

Tony EH wrote: »

All of this "who's Rey" stuff bring sup a question.

How did Kylo Ren know that she's a nobody. He hadn't a bloody clue who she was when he met her a day or two before.

Maybe I imagine it but didn't he say he knew because she really knew it herself as he saw it in her mind?

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

All of this "who's Rey" stuff bring sup a question.

How did Kylo Ren know that she's a nobody. He hadn't a bloody clue who she was when he met her a day or two before.

This is what I’ve been saying. Her biggest fear is that they just abandoned her. He’s been in her mind and found that fear and is using it against her.
It doesn’t mean it’s fact at all.
It’s baffling everyone is believing the bad guy

But it is set up in TFA that he’s heard of her. What girl?/the girl I’ve heard so much about.

My pet theory is her folks were first order officers that his her to protect her from Snoke as she was force capable and her take her and presumably ruin her.

There is a potential for JJ to go there but he may not at all.

9 will be all about Rey and Kylo if he has any sense.

Earthhorse

The problem isn't whether she's a nobody or a somebody; but that her internal motivation comes from finding out and in this movie that wasn't explored one jot. The only reference to it was in Kylo's confrontation with her. That's poor character development right there.

david75

Earthhorse wrote: »

The problem isn't whether she's a nobody or a somebody; but that her internal motivation comes from finding out and in this movie that wasn't explored one jot. The only reference to it was in Kylo's confrontation with her. That's poor character development right there.

But it’s not a huge motivation for her. It’s a demand from us the audience projecting it. She gets pulled into that cave and it’s a dark side place and it gives her an answer. It doesn’t matter who they were. You are the answer to your question. I like that it went that way.

Imagine the mirror had shown her the parents?

Would any of us be happy with that? I seriously doubt it.

Falthyron

Tony EH wrote: »

All of this "who's Rey" stuff bring sup a question.

How did Kylo Ren know that she's a nobody. He hadn't a bloody clue who she was when he met her a day or two before.

Yeah, Rey made some reference to the fact that she saw Kylo's future and that he would not kneel to Snoke. He retorts by saying "I, too, saw something. I know who your parents are", or something to that effect.

Earthhorse

Isn't it? I would have said it's the main thing that makes her question her self worth and was a big factor in the first film. But like most things Rian just ignored it and made his own movie.

The point here is that I'm not invested in the answer being something mindblowing but she clearly is interested in the answer but it's like she's a different person in the second movie even though no time has elapsed between the two.

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

But it’s not a huge motivation for her. It’s a demand from us the audience projecting it. She gets pulled into that cave and it’s a dark side place and it gives her an answer. It doesn’t matter who they were. You are the answer to your question. I like that it went that way.

Imagine the mirror had shown her the parents?

Would any of us be happy with that? I seriously doubt it.

But she clearly wasn't happy with that answer as per her reaction to Kylo when he tells her that he knows who her parents are and how she breaks down telling him they were nobodies.

Yes, she wants to take control of this force that has always been inside of her, but she has spent just as much time wondering about her parents and when they will return for her.

In the end, Rian failed in his job in this issue. Before TLJ we were told that we would learn who Rey's parents are - that question would be answered. In reality, post-TLJ, we are just as confused as before. Was Kylo lying? Was he honest? What does the mirror in the cave imply? Does it really matter, anyway? Nothing was answered and yet everything was answered. A total cop-out, imo.

Mickeroo

I didn't think her parents were her motivation at all. I've been saying it since I first watched TFA that it would be completely unnecessary for it to turn out that her parents were someone important.

Earthhorse

What do you think her motivation is then?

Tony EH

Mickeroo wrote: »

Maybe I imagine it but didn't he say he knew because she really knew it herself as he saw it in her mind?

Falthyron wrote: »

Yeah, Rey made some reference to the fact that she saw Kylo's future and that he would not kneel to Snoke. He retorts by saying "I, too, saw something. I know who your parents are", or something to that effect.

Um, right. Don't recall TBH.

It's all a bit handy.

I seem to recall, though, that Kylo was sort of familiar with her anyway in TFA. Wasn't there guff floating around that she might have been a student of Luke's at his school and was the only survivor after Kylo went apeshit? So Luke hid her on Jakku. But when Kylo hears of her, he's like "What girl???" - as in I hope it's not that girl.

I suppose that's scuppered by TLJ though.

I kind of like that angle though. It would certainly explain her "get up one morning and do Jedi stuff" nonsense.

Mickeroo

Earthhorse wrote: »

What do you think her motivation is then?

To prove to herself she wasn't worthless and didn't deserve to be abandoned by her waster parents. Standard Disney princess stuff.

Mickeroo

Tony EH wrote: »

Um, right. Don't recall TBH.

It's all a bit handy.

I seem to recall, though, that Kylo was sort of familiar with her anyway in TFA. Wasn't there guff floating around that she might have been a student of Luke's at his school and was the only survivor after Kylo went apeshit? So Luke hid her on Jakku. But when Kylo hears of her, he's like "What girl???" - as in I hope it's not that girl.

I suppose that's scuppered by TLJ though.

I kind of like that angle though. It would certainly explain her "get up one morning and do Jedi stuff" nonsense.

Would have been an alright direction for sure but I don't think it was ever anything more than an internet fan theory.

Tony EH

Mickeroo wrote: »

Would have been an alright direction for sure but I don't think it was ever anything more than an internet fan theory.

Unfortunately, you're probably right.

It's a pity that a lot of the fan theories out there for this sequel trilogy are better and more coherent that what's appearing on the screen.

Falthyron

Mickeroo wrote: »

I didn't think her parents were her motivation at all. I've been saying it since I first watched TFA that it would be completely unnecessary for it to turn out that her parents were someone important.

This is where the old trilogy and new trilogy differ. Nobody ever wondered about Luke's parents. In fact, his mother isn't even mentioned until Return of the Jedi. We (as the audience) are satisfied that Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen are the family Luke needs, even though they are his aunt and uncle. When Luke asks Ben about his father we learn that he died during the Clone Wars.

That's pretty much the end of it for Luke's ancestry until the end of Empire. Then it becomes an issue, a serious implication for the central character, and ultimately becomes the main reason for the outcome of the Skywalker storyline in those films.

In TFA, a mystery is created for us from the outset. Rey spending much of her time telling people she needs to get back to Jakku because her parents are coming to get her. We see a flashback and we are deliberately not told who her parents are. The mystery continues. Then, she has a very obscure talent at, a lot of things, flying, shooting, dueling, and can use the Force. Surely, as much as the audience, the character would like to know where she comes from and if her lineage can offer a reason as to why she has these abilities - some of them unconventional and unnatural. TFA deliberately builds up this mystery, it can't help itself, especially with one of the best twists in film history being about parentage.

Then comes TLJ to pretty much say: "You are a nobody". Ok, sure. If that's the route you want to go down, then that's fine. A bit underwhelming given all the mystery set up in the previous film. I guess you 'got us'? An inversion of the infamous twist. Ok.

But, wait. Post-release, the director and writer says: "Well, actually... that could all change with JJ". Really?! Why bother? If you were unsure about your answer, you could have just ignored it and left Episode IX solve that particular quandary.

This is just one problem with never having written a trilogy from the outset.

Falthyron

Tony EH wrote: »

Wasn't there guff floating around that she might have been a student of Luke's at his school and was the only survivor after Kylo went apeshit? So Luke hid her on Jakku. But when Kylo hears of her, he's like "What girl???" - as in I hope it's not that girl.

A far better theory and storyline for Rey, imo. That would have been pretty cool. Maybe Kylo learned of one survivor from the school, a girl, but she got away.

Mickeroo

Falthyron wrote: »

This is where the old trilogy and new trilogy differ. Nobody ever wondered about Luke's parents. In fact, his mother isn't even mentioned until Return of the Jedi. We (as the audience) are satisfied that Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen are the family Luke needs, even though they are his aunt and uncle. When Luke asks Ben about his father we learn that he died during the Clone Wars.

That's pretty much the end of it for Luke's ancestry until the end of Empire. Then it becomes an issue, a serious implication for the central character, and ultimately becomes the main reason for the outcome of the Skywalker storyline in those films.

In TFA, a mystery is created for us from the outset. Rey spending much of her time telling people she needs to get back to Jakku because her parents are coming to get her. We see a flashback and we are deliberately not told who her parents are. The mystery continues. Then, she has a very obscure talent at, a lot of things, flying, shooting, dueling, and can use the Force. Surely, as much as the audience, the character would like to know where she comes from and if her lineage can offer a reason as to why she has these abilities - some of them unconventional and unnatural. TFA deliberately builds up this mystery, it can't help itself, especially with one of the best twists in film history being about parentage.

Then comes TLJ to pretty much say: "You are a nobody". Ok, sure. If that's the route you want to go down, then that's fine. A bit underwhelming given all the mystery set up in the previous film. I guess you 'got us'? An inversion of the infamous twist. Ok.

But, wait. Post-release, the director and writer says: "Well, actually... that could all change with JJ". Really?! Why bother? If you were unsure about your answer, you could have just ignored it and left Episode IX solve that particular quandary.

This is just one problem with never having written a trilogy from the outset.

I don't think there was a mystery about her parents other than we don't know who they are and she doesn't talk about them. We see a ship flying away after they've abondoned her thats it. Her not wanting to tell anyone about them to them because she doesn't want anyone to find out she was just tossed away makes her a more interesting character imo. The stuff about her having all these talents is just a case of her being able to do what the story requires her to do at any given time/mary sue/whatever.

Also don't forget Vader wasn't Luke's father and Leia wasn't his sister until after Star Wars was a success and they greenlit a sequel. :pac: You have a fair point though, they have no excuse to not have it planned out this time around and I'd be very disappointed if they retcon her lineage in the next film.

Tony EH

Falthyron wrote: »

A far better theory and storyline for Rey, imo. That would have been pretty cool. Maybe Kylo learned of one survivor from the school, a girl, but she got away.

I suppose that it can still be hammered into IX. Luke can Force ghost :rolleyes: himself to her and explain that he found her in the ruins of his school and decided to hide her, once Kylo and the Knights of Ren killed everyone and buggered off.

He didn't really know who Unkar Plutt was, but was planning to come back and get her later? Things didn't work out though and he just gave up.

There's, obviously, huge problems with all of that, especially with further assassination of Luke's character and the fact that these Knights of Ren have turned out to be an empty and utterly pointless add on that has gone nowhere - symptomatic of the issues you run into when you make shit up on the spot.

But it would go some way to explaining how we ended up at the entry point of TFA.

Mickeroo

Wouldn't she have known Luke and Kylo if that was the case though? unless they wanted to go down a PTSD/suppressed memory route.

Falthyron

Mickeroo wrote: »

Wouldn't she have known Luke and Kylo if that was the case though? unless they wanted to go down a PTSD/suppressed memory route.

Unless she was in Jedi Kindergarden - a separate school to test children before they 'get promoted' to the real school.

Tony EH

Mickeroo wrote: »

Wouldn't she have known Luke and Kylo if that was the case though? unless they wanted to go down a PTSD/suppressed memory route.

Well, I reckon that would be part of it. Luke wipes her mind when she's 5, leaving her with an impression that she's waiting for her family to return and she has to wait patiently - which she does (quite bizarrely IMO) for the next 15 years.

But, perhaps her parents are dead and have been since birth or something. That would also explain why she's no real memory of them or why she can't see them in the mirror scene.

Or maybe they were actually bums and they left her with Luke and not Unkar Plutt - so Kylo was telling the truth - from a certain point of view.

seamus

It's a bit naive to assume that what Kylo told Rey was the truth though. Kylo got the "nobodies" information from Rey, using her own feelings against her.

That doesn't require J.J. to stick to that in the next one; it can be easily explained away as Kylo simply using her own feelings against her to try and turn her.

Remember that Empire explained the discrepancy away with, "What I told you was true....from a certain point of view". Which everyone happily accepted.

uncleoswald

Mickeroo wrote: »

To prove to herself she wasn't worthless and didn't deserve to be abandoned by her waster parents. Standard Disney princess stuff.

Doesn't she turn Han down when offered a job because she wants to go back to Jakku and wait for her parents to come back for her? Her dream of exploring the galaxy is superceded by her naive belief that she was abandoned for a reason and her parents would come back for her.

Mickeroo

uncleoswald wrote: »

Doesn't she turn Han down when offered a job because she wants to go back to Jakku and wait for her parents to come back for her? Her dream of exploring the galaxy is superceded by her naive belief that she was abandoned for a reason and her parents would come back for her.

She doesn't want to believe they just abandoned her so she has difficulty letting go and accepting that.

uncleoswald

Mickeroo wrote: »

I didn't think her parents were her motivation at all. I've been saying it since I first watched TFA that it would be completely unnecessary for it to turn out that her parents were someone important.

Mickeroo wrote: »

She doesn't want to believe they just abandoned her so she has difficulty letting go and accepting that.

Yes, so her parents were her motivation all along. And her ties to the lightsaber etc... cemented that belief in her and us the viewer. It's why the scene in TLJ where she finds out the truth is so effective as it shatters her/our preconceptions and ties in with the film's themes of heroes been made and not born.

For me this is one example of the new trilogy succeeding in telling a long game story arc. It may not have been planned out from the beginning but Abrams set it up and Johnson successfully carried it on. I just find the rest of the film lacking in that regard and don't think it sets up any other great narrative threads for the next film either.

Also I just think any fan theories I've heard about Ray's parents to be boring and lacking in sense.