Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Saruhashi

Falthyron wrote: »

If Episode IX features one of the following:

- A super Star Destroyer ship, similar to Vader's or Snoke's.
- A weapon system similar to the Death Star or Starkiller Base.
- A planet inhabited by The First Order, or featuring a large enemy fortress/base.
- A Resistance capital ship.
- A Resistance weapon system.
- A Resistance base or planet.

And if we don't see either side utilising this new weapon (Hyperspace Kamikaze) or DHW (Divine Hyper Wind), as I prefer to call it, then surely the audience will ask: why don't they fire a ship entering hyperspace at the big thing?

Is that not a fair question to ask from now on?

Media: Alt-Right Trolls are asking "why don't they fire a ship entering hyperspace at the big thing" in an attempt to ruin the Star Wars for everyone.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

If Episode IX features one of the following:

- A super Star Destroyer ship, similar to Vader's or Snoke's.
- A weapon system similar to the Death Star or Starkiller Base.
- A planet inhabited by The First Order, or featuring a large enemy fortress/base.
- A Resistance capital ship.
- A Resistance weapon system.
- A Resistance base or planet.

And if we don't see either side utilising this new weapon (Hyperspace Kamikaze) or DHW (Divine Hyper Wind), as I prefer to call it, then surely the audience will ask: why don't they fire a ship entering hyperspace at the big thing?

Is that not a fair question to ask from now on?

They won’t ask. They won’t see the film cos they hated the last Jedi and have quit Star Wars forever.

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

They won’t ask. They won’t see the film cos they hated the last Jedi and have quit Star Wars forever.

As someone who loves the films, David, if my hypothetical situation does occur (a new massive ship for Kylo, or another Death Star), will you not ask the question? Will you not think: "This would be a perfect situation to just hyperspace right through that thing and kill Kylo/whoever"? Or would you prefer they justified the inflated CGI budget to show twenty minutes of little ships dueling it out in space in a vain attempt to blow up 'the big thing'?

david75

IIRC the few ships that jumped to hyperspace in rogue one exploded on impact against Vaders Star destroyers shields as it was coming out of hyperspace.
Must watch that again n see.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

As someone who loves the films, David, if my hypothetical situation does occur (a new massive ship for Kylo, or another Death Star), will you not ask the question? Will you not think: "This would be a perfect situation to just hyperspace right through that thing and kill Kylo/whoever"?

Well, no tbh. It’s sposed to be fun space fantasy not physics and war crimes

Mitch Connor

how the feck do they travel in hyperspace if it possible to slice through a ship?

Surely it would be impossible to fly in any direction, for any significant amount of time, without going through another ship, asteroid, moon, planet, star etc.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

Well, no tbh. It’s sposed to be fun space fantasy not physics and war crimes

What sets Star Wars apart from other movies that are just supposed to be a bit of fun? Films like Justice League or the Transformers movies.

I think you prefer Star Wars over most of the big movie franchises, right? That's my impression anyway.

So what sets it apart from the others?

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

Well, no tbh. It’s sposed to be fun space fantasy not physics and war crimes

There's no such thing as war crimes until the victorious side tells the defeated they committed them.

Fair enough. I wish I had your talent for just taking things as they come, but I can't get past the idea that a weapon almost as powerful as the Death Star has existed for decades and is far more prolific and accessible than anything that has come before it and that it won't now be used to maximum effect.

If I was in charge of the Resistance right now I would be locating the most remote planet featuring some of the most dense minerals possible to exploit. I would then be building moderately sized ships from said mineral and strapping Hyperspace engines to them in preparation for any First Order fleets. Think of a smaller Borg Cube from Star Trek with a massive fúck off hyperspace engine on the back. A couple of those lads going into First Order fleets and this war is over in no time.

david75

Mitch Connor wrote: »

how the feck do they travel in hyperspace if it possible to slice through a ship?

Surely it would be impossible to fly in any direction, for any significant amount of time, without going through another ship, asteroid, moon, planet, star etc.

There’s established hyperspace lanes all over the galaxy so like a road network basically. Navi computers have the map stored and compute the route necessary.
It’s like the kessel run he found the shortest way to get between the two points using the fewest lanes.

Falthyron

Mitch Connor wrote: »

how the feck do they travel in hyperspace if it possible to slice through a ship?

Surely it would be impossible to fly in any direction, for any significant amount of time, without going through another ship, asteroid, moon, planet, star etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcX8mDRIhYE

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

What sets Star Wars apart from other movies that are just supposed to be a bit of fun? Films like Justice League or the Transformers movies.

I think you prefer Star Wars over most of the big movie franchises, right? That's my impression anyway.

So what sets it apart from the others?

It’s like anything. You’re introduced to it at the right time and it becomes part of your life. Like football or playing music. Same thing.
I’d say Star Wars is more important to our culture and has a broader reach and a more lasting one than the others you mentioned but a comic book fan might disagree.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

There's no such thing as war crimes until the victorious side tells the defeated they committed them.

Fair enough. I wish I had your talent for just taking things as they come, but I can't get past the idea that a weapon almost as powerful as the Death Star has existed for decades and is far more prolific and accessible than anything that has come before it and that it won't now be used to maximum effect.

If I was in charge of the Resistance right now I would be locating the most remote planet featuring some of the most dense minerals possible to exploit. I would then be building moderately sized ships from said mineral and strapping Hyperspace engines to them in preparation for any First Order fleets. Think of a smaller Borg Cube from Star Trek with a massive fúck off hyperspace engine on the back. A couple of those lads going into First Order fleets and this war is over in no time.

If you want to go down that road the force is the most powerful thing in the galaxy why doesn’t Vader just pull all the rebel ships out of the sky? Size matters not n all that.
The first order is basically a huge militia that has staged a coup, wiped out the republic fleet (one could ask what was it all doing in one place) and destroyed the govt.

Someone in TLJ says the Rebels have allies all throughout the galaxy so presuming we get a heslthy time jump, say five or ten years, they’ll be back on their feet and fighting I think. If they go that way in 9. They might not.

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

If you want to go down that road the force is the most powerful thing in the galaxy why doesn’t Vader just pull all the rebel ships out of the sky? Size matters not n all that.
The first order is basically a huge militia that has staged a coup, wiped out the republic fleet (one could ask what was it all doing in one place) and destroyed the govt.

Someone in TLJ says the Rebels have allies all throughout the galaxy so presuming we get a heslthy time jump, say five or ten years, they’ll be back on their feet and fighting I think. If they go that way in 9. They might not.

Stop moving the goal posts. We are talking about conventional armies and non-force sensitive leaders in war. If I was a General, I would be demanding RnD start weaponising this hyperspace weapon immediately. Being on the cutting edge of tactics, strategy, and technology wins you wars, not individuals. Any General worth their salt would be weaponising this technology now and, simultaneously, trying to think of ways of negating the tactic on your own forces. For example, I would start developing a weapon system similar to an EMP that could be detonated in a large area which would disable Hyperdrive systems.

The most frustrating part about all of this is that I am probably putting more thought into all of this than Rian Johnson. JJ will probably ignore the event ever took place, but in terms of consistency and logic, Star Wars has a problem in Episode IX. There is no weapon or ship too big now that can't be resolved with the most common technology available.

david75

They’ve a map for everything.
All the major hyperspace lanes

Keyzer

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would.

I found Rose to be annoying and could see issues around her. I probably had an issue with every scene she was in - but that's probably more a story issue for me.

Beyond that, what? I get that most of the leads are female (Lieia, Rey, Holdo) but I don't really remember any around them other than being strong characters.

That said, I will pretty much always cringe when I see SJW and Fememinism called out in an argument like this because I fear it will result in an argument that doesn't go far beyond 'That main character is female, being a female, looking female, while talking.'.

Forget Rose, lets look at one of the lead characters, Rey.

Absolutely no problem or issue with her being a female, let me just get that clear from the get go.

What I do have an issue with is she has to go through zero hardship and virtually no training to get to where she is now. She's pulling off Jedi mind tricks without ever witnessing someone do that or being taught how to do it. She's barely touched a light saber in the first movie yet kicks Kylo's ass in the finale of TFA. She puts a Jedi Master on his ass with ease in TLJ. She can move dozens of rocks and boulders by the end of the movie. She win's everytime with remarkable ease having never worked for it. She earned nothing through hardship, it was handed to her on a plate. SJW propaganda.

On a more general note, every man in this movie is either an idiot, a complete idiot, evil or just utterly pathetic (Luke, Finn & Poe to name a few). Luke's "death" was such a cop out, such a crap way for an iconic character to bow out. Hell, the bomber girl at the start of the movie got a better send off. The entire leadership of the resistance is female. Almost every female character is characterised as a strong leader in a position of power. Feminist propaganda.

Again, nothing wrong with strong female characters. I loved Rogue One and its strong female lead. The Last Jedi though, feminist/SJW agenda rammed down the audiences throat at almost every opportunity.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

Stop moving the goal posts. We are talking about conventional armies and non-force sensitive leaders in war. If I was a General, I would be demanding RnD start weaponising this hyperspace weapon immediately. Being on the cutting edge of tactics, strategy, and technology wins you wars, not individuals. Any General worth their salt would be weaponising this technology now and, simultaneously, trying to think of ways of negating the tactic on your own forces. For example, I would start developing a weapon system similar to an EMP that could be detonated in a large area which would disable Hyperdrive systems.

The most frustrating part about all of this is that I am probably putting more thought into all of this than Rian Johnson. JJ will probably ignore the event ever took place, but in terms of consistency and logic, Star Wars has a problem in Episode IX. There is no weapon or ship too big now that can't be resolved with the most common technology available.

Death Star II ,couldn’t be attacked cos it’s shields were up, starkiller had a shield you couldn’t get through unless you were travelling at light speed so I dunno.
Are you gonna be annoyed if we don’t see it used again? Assuming the rebellion has all the resources to sacrifice ships or just make giant drones would it not be really boring if they did it all the time? And you don’t think the first order wouldn’t be miles ahead of them technologically and inventing defensive measures against it? If they can drain a sun and store it in a planet, sorting out some tech to stop these sorts of attacks wouldn’t be a problem for them.

david75

Keyzer wrote: »

Forget Rose, lets look at one of the lead characters, Rey.

Absolutely no problem or issue with her being a female, let me just get that clear from the get go.

What I do have an issue with is she has to go through zero hardship and virtually no training to get to where she is now. She's pulling off Jedi mind tricks without ever witnessing someone do that or being taught how to do it. She's barely touched a light saber in the first movie yet kicks Kylo's ass in the finale of TFA. She puts a Jedi Master on his ass with ease in TLJ. She can move dozens of rocks and boulders by the end of the movie. She win's everytime with remarkable ease having never worked for it. She earned nothing through hardship, it was handed to her on a plate. SJW propaganda.

On a more general note, every man in this movie is either an idiot, a complete idiot, evil or just utterly pathetic (Luke, Finn & Poe to name a few). Luke's "death" was such a cop out, such a crap way for an iconic character to bow out. Hell, the bomber girl at the start of the movie got a better send off. The entire leadership of the resistance is female. Almost every female character is characterised as a strong leader in a position of power. Feminist propaganda.

Again, nothing wrong with strong female characters. I loved Rogue One and its strong female lead. The Last Jedi though, feminist/SJW agenda rammed down the audiences throat at almost every opportunity.

Once again Star Wars is literally about social justice warriors fighting an evil empire.

And yeah it does sound like you have a real problem with women.
So what, ‘make Star Wars all white male!’ again?

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

It’s like anything. You’re introduced to it at the right time and it becomes part of your life. Like football or playing music. Same thing.
I’d say Star Wars is more important to our culture and has a broader reach and a more lasting one than the others you mentioned but a comic book fan might disagree.

Right, so if you understand that then you can surely see why hand-waving it away as just supposed to be mindless fun is not satisfying for people who feel that "connection".

On one hand we want to hold up Star Wars as being important to our culture but on the other hand we're going to slag off people who care too much about stupid stuff.

Mitch Connor

Keyzer wrote: »

Forget Rose, lets look at one of the lead characters, Rey.

Absolutely no problem or issue with her being a female, let me just get that clear from the get go.

What I do have an issue with is she has to go through zero hardship and virtually no training to get to where she is now. She's pulling off Jedi mind tricks without ever witnessing someone do that or being taught how to do it. She's barely touched a light saber in the first movie yet kicks Kylo's ass in the finale of TFA. She puts a Jedi Master on his ass with ease in TLJ. She can move dozens of rocks and boulders by the end of the movie. She win's everytime with remarkable ease having never worked for it. She earned nothing through hardship, it was handed to her on a plate. SJW propaganda.

I can see the Mary Sueness of it - but that doesn't ammount to SJW propoganda, just bad writing. As for having never suffered. Guess being abandoned to a slaver (?) by her parents and having to grow up alone and learn to fend for herself was easy.

Keyzer wrote: »

On a more general note, every man in this movie is either an idiot, a complete idiot, evil or just utterly pathetic (Luke, Finn & Poe to name a few). Luke's "death" was such a cop out, such a crap way for an iconic character to bow out. Hell, the bomber girl at the start of the movie got a better send off. The entire leadership of the resistance is female. Almost every female character is characterised as a strong leader in a position of power. Feminist propaganda.

Finn I don't like, and I agree.

Poe I think starts as teh brash, flamboyant and charasmatic leader of the fighters, and by the end has seen he needs to be more thoughtful, more aware, more patient to be an actual leader - and is made leader at the end of the movie. No issue there, imo.

By every leader of the resistence do you mean two? Leia and Holdo? Why shouldn't they be female? I'm gonna assume you have no issue with Leia so lets move on to Holdo. From the perspective we are given throughout the movie (until the plan is revealed) she is a coward with no plan of action, no means to escape, just trying to bide time. She is forceful, but through the movie we side with Poe (a male) against her.

At the end of the movie, Leia has passed the leadership to Poe - her plan all along (imo) once he learned how to be a leader and not just a fighter pilot.

Kylo is also in this movie, and is brilliant in it imo. a male.

Keyzer wrote: »

Again, nothing wrong with strong female characters. I loved Rogue One and its strong female lead. The Last Jedi though, feminist/SJW agenda rammed down the audiences throat at almost every opportunity.

I can only see it as SJW/feminist if you simply can't accept female leads in a good number of roles. I don't see propoganda, or any sort of SJWness to the movie.

I see good actors in good roles.

I would also say Hux's character is fecking awful in the movie, but again I don't think that is an agenda against men, i think it is just poor writing/directing/decsions.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

Right, so if you understand that then you can surely see why hand-waving it away as just supposed to be mindless fun is not satisfying for people who feel that "connection".

On one hand we want to hold up Star Wars as being important to our culture but on the other hand we're going to slag off people who care too much about stupid stuff.

I didn’t slag anyone off? It’s a galaxy full of ridiculous elements. There’s no point applying too much real world thinking into pretty much any of it. ‘So why didn’t _______’ could be affixed to anything in it especially when it comes to stuff like the force and force users or tactics used in x battle.
It’s tiring reading having people bang on any possible thing they can to find fault with any film they didn’t like.
@rianjohnson on twitter if you want answers to this stuff. I didn’t write the film I just enjoyed it.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

@rianjohnson on twitter if you want answers to this stuff. I didn’t write the film I just enjoyed it.

Nope. I think I'll continue posting on here about it, thanks.

Keyzer

david75 wrote: »

Once again Star Wars is literally about social justice warriors fighting an evil empire.

I thought the rebels were fighting the tyrannical empire for freedom? Is that what SJW's are now? Fighting the empire?

david75 wrote: »

And yeah it does sound like you have a real problem with women.
So what, ‘make Star Wars all white male!’ again?

Stated twice I don't have a problem at all with female characters.

I'd have the same issue if Rey's character was male.

david75

There’s a cool read explaining all about the Holdo maneuver
https://medium.com/@awilliamhorne/the-holdo-maneuver-an-idiots-guide-to-hyperspace-32aa4cdc0d9a

And apparently such a maneuver is banned in the galaxy so presumably it has happened before.

‘’Rian Johnson addressed the issue. “First of all, has this been done before, period?” he asked. “I’ve got to reserve the right for [Lucasfilm Story Group member] Pablo [Hidalgo] to build it back into canon if he’s like, ‘Yeah, this is a thing and they outlawed it.’ I think there’s various ways you can go with it. But it’s not like it was the plan to do this.”

Johnson continued, “It’s a spur of the moment thing. It’s this idea that she gets and she sits down and f*cking does, and it obviously takes everybody completely by surprise. It takes Hux by surprise. The fact that Hux doesn’t see it coming means it’s probably not a standard military maneuver. I think it was something that Holdo [laughs] pulled out of her butt in the moment.”

Arne_Saknussem

david75 wrote: »

There’s a cool read explaining all about the Holdo maneuver
https://medium.com/@awilliamhorne/the-holdo-maneuver-an-idiots-guide-to-hyperspace-32aa4cdc0d9a

And apparently such a maneuver is banned in the galaxy so presumably it has happened before.

‘’Rian Johnson addressed the issue. “First of all, has this been done before, period?” he asked. “I’ve got to reserve the right for [Lucasfilm Story Group member] Pablo [Hidalgo] to build it back into canon if he’s like, ‘Yeah, this is a thing and they outlawed it.’ I think there’s various ways you can go with it. But it’s not like it was the plan to do this.”

Johnson continued, “It’s a spur of the moment thing. It’s this idea that she gets and she sits down and f*cking does, and it obviously takes everybody completely by surprise. It takes Hux by surprise. The fact that Hux doesn’t see it coming means it’s probably not a standard military maneuver. I think it was something that Holdo [laughs] pulled out of her butt in the moment.”

Sounds like an explanation he pulled out of his butt in the moment.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

IIRC the few ships that jumped to hyperspace in rogue one exploded on impact against Vaders Star destroyers shields as it was coming out of hyperspace.
Must watch that again n see.

One ship hits Vader's SD because it hadn't jumped. The rest get to hyperspace.

david75

Keyzer wrote: »

I thought the rebels were fighting the tyrannical empire for freedom? Is that what SJW's are now? Fighting the empire?



Stated twice I don't have a problem at all with female characters.

I'd have the same issue if Rey's character was male.

You do know what SJW stands for right? And in real world terms it’s used as a pejorative by Trumptards and alt right loons who throw it at anyone who disagrees with them?


To your second point, you then have a problem with Luke. Who first hears about the force on Monday and is using the force capably on Tuesday to blow up the Death Star?

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

Well, no tbh. It’s sposed to be fun space fantasy not physics and war crimes

It's not a question of physics, war crimes, or fun.

It's just a matter of logical continuity.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

It's not a question of physics, war crimes, or fun.

It's just a matter of logical continuity.

I really don’t care about it tbh. It’s a weird thing to get hung up on to me.
Again. @rianjohnson on twitter if you’re really bothered that much.

Nettle Soup

Saruhashi wrote: »

Nope. I think I'll continue posting on here about it, thanks.

David has 25.8% of all posts in this thread. I am sure he will have the answers you seek despite the blinkers and suggestions you move to Twitter.

Falthyron

Is there anything to be said for bringing back George Lucas?