Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Drumpot

Planes were invented a long time before somebody came up with the idea of flying them into the Twin Towers. Like hyper drive ships, they are invented for long distance travel, speed, their route needs to be mapped out and monitored. They are not intended to be used as a weapon but they could be all the time. Nobody has used a plane in this manner (at least to the same effect) since 2001 as far as I know.

I just think of it like guerrilla warfare where you see the smaller, inferior army/soldiers use alternative tactics to compensate for their limited resources. Like using landscape (forests/canyons) or knowledge of an area or weather (Russia v Germany winter) to even the odds. .

Falthyron

Drumpot wrote: »

Planes were invented a long time before somebody came up with the idea of flying them into the Twin Towers. Like hyper drive ships, they are invented for long distance travel, speed, their route needs to be mapped out and monitored. They are not intended to be used as a weapon but they could be all the time. Nobody has used a plane in this manner (at least to the same effect) since 2001 as far as I know.

I just think of it like guerrilla warfare where you see the smaller, inferior army/soldiers use alternative tactics to compensate for their limited resources.

And given the success of Holdo's suicide jump, we should expect the Resistance to utilise this highly effective and relatively cheap weapon for some time. Until, of course, an effective counter-measure is discovered.

Arne_Saknussem

Drumpot wrote: »

Planes were invented a long time before somebody came up with the idea of flying them into the Twin Towers. Like hyper drive ships, they are invented for long distance travel, speed, their route needs to be mapped out and monitored. They are not intended to be used as a weapon but they could be all the time. Nobody has used a plane in this manner (at least to the same effect) since 2001 as far as I know.

I just think of it like guerrilla warfare where you see the smaller, inferior army/soldiers use alternative tactics to compensate for their limited resources. Like using landscape (forests/canyons) or knowledge of an area (Russia v Germany) to even the odds. .

There is no reason for the people flying planes to fly them into buildings, makes little sense from a business perspective.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

You do know what SJW stands for right? And in real world terms it’s used as a pejorative by Trumptards and alt right loons who throw it at anyone who disagrees with them?

I think I understand why the logical inconsistencies in TLJ don't bother you at all.

Yes, those "Trumptards" using pejoratives all the time. Disgraceful.

To your second point, you then have a problem with Luke. Who first hears about the force on Monday and is using the force capably on Tuesday to blow up the Death Star?

The "what about Hillary's Emails the originals" defense again? Really?

You sure you aren't one of those "Trumptards"?

david75

Nettle Soup wrote: »

David has 25.8% of all posts in this thread. I am sure he will have the answers you seek despite the blinkers and suggestions you move to Twitter.

Nettled more like.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for bringing back George Lucas?

He helped direct a scene in Solo if that’s any use.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

I think I understand why the logical inconsistencies in TLJ don't bother you at all.

Yes, those "Trumptards" using pejoratives all the time. Disgraceful.




The "what about Hillary's Emails the originals" defense again? Really?

You sure you aren't one of those "Trumptards"?

Star Wars is riddled with inconsistencies and plot holes. Loads of them. Shall I find you a list?
(And yes anyone who voted for that guy is mentally retarded, worse, they’re actually brainless)

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

He helped direct a scene in Solo if that’s any use.

He made a suggestion. Besides, who knows if it will make the final cut. Or if the moment even happened in the first place? Could be just another PR stunt to help the crippled 'Solo' out.

I am wondering how long it will before people ask for George to come back and do his own film. It will never happen, but that doesn't mean people won't want it.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

He made a suggestion. Besides, who knows if it will make the final cut. Or if the moment even happened in the first place? Could be just another PR stunt to help the crippled 'Solo' out.

I am wondering how long it will before people ask for George to come back and do his own film. It will never happen, but that doesn't mean people won't want it.

Tinfoil hat time but he was in Belfast a couple of months ago.
I got to thinking maybe he’s at the helm under Disney and they’re actually making the 100 script series 1313 he wrote about the sw underworld and he was checking out the studios up there to see if they’re up to scratch. I mean if the can do GOT they can probably do a Star Wars series.

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

Tinfoil hat time but he was in Belfast a couple of months ago.
I got to thinking maybe he’s at the helm under Disney and they’re actually making the 100 script series 1313 he wrote about the sw underworld and he was checking out the studios up there to see if they’re up to scratch. I mean if the can do GOT they can probably do a Star Wars series.

Maybe you are on to something, but I reckon he was probably meeting with Benioff and Weiss. Perhaps Disney approached them about doing the TV show or films, but they insisted on speaking with Lucas to get a full understanding of the period/story they would be dealing with.

I don't think Disney will ever ask Lucas to do anything, and I reckon they now own all of his works related to Star Wars, as per the terms of the buy-out. So, any shows, films, etc., he had written and put in the 'maybe' pile of the Lucas Vault went to Disney. If, and its a big 'if' Lucas was in Northern Ireland for reasons other than the history of sectarianism or to see the Giant's Causeway, it will have only been to clarify/explain his stories a little more to those who might be in charge of telling them.

Saruhashi

Drumpot wrote: »

Planes were invented a long time before somebody came up with the idea of flying them into the Twin Towers.

There are reports of pilots in WW1 using the planes as weapons when everything else failed.

This was happening in 1914 in the first major warfare to ever involve aircraft and only 9 years after the first ever flight in 1903.

From August 1944 until the end of WW2 the Japanese were training pilots to deliberately fly into military targets and almost 4,000 pilots died doing exactly that. Less than half a decade after the first ever flight and in the 3rd major conflict involving aircraft (after WW1 and the Spanish Civil War).

The truth is that bombs and missiles in our world do way more damage than aircraft so it's not a viable tactic.

How much damage can a single plane do compared to a single nuclear bomb?

In the Star Wars universe light-speed travel has been around for millennia and the damage caused by object travelling at light-speed is massive as seen in The Last Jedi. A single ship can cripple an entire fleet.

A single object travelling at lightspeed can do more damage that anything we've seen before with the exception of Death Stars and StarKillers and armies have had the technology for 1000s of years.

Seems bizarre it would only be used as a once off tactic.

Falthyron

Saruhashi wrote: »

There are reports of pilots in WW1 using the planes as weapons when everything else failed.

This was happening in 1914 in the first major warfare to ever involve aircraft and only 9 years after the first ever flight in 1903.

From August 1944 until the end of WW2 the Japanese were training pilots to deliberately fly into military targets and almost 4,000 pilots died doing exactly that. Less than half a decade after the first ever flight and in the 3rd major conflict involving aircraft (after WW1 and the Spanish Civil War).

The truth is that bombs and missiles in our world do way more damage than aircraft so it's not a viable tactic.

How much damage can a single plane do compared to a single nuclear bomb?

In the Star Wars universe light-speed travel has been around for millennia and the damage caused by object travelling at light-speed is massive as seen in The Last Jedi. A single ship can cripple an entire fleet.

A single object travelling at lightspeed can do more damage that anything we've seen before with the exception of Death Stars and StarKillers and armies have had the technology for 1000s of years.

Seems bizarre it would only be used as a once off tactic.

An easier comparison would be this:

When the U.S. detonated their first atomic bomb, followed by its use in war against Japan, what did other powerful states do? They copied the U.S. and started building their own bombs. They continued to develop bigger and more powerful stockpiles. Then they found ways to deploy the bombs in different ways (Air, ground, and sea). They also thought of ways to prevent being bombed - deterrence theory, anti-ballistic missiles, etc. As I said previously, considering the resounding success of what Holdo achieved, it would be absolutely baffling if both sides don't start developing this as a viable tactic and ways for countering it.

Then again, AT-ATs still have their key design flaw 30 years later... :rolleyes:

david75

Then as in real world terms there’s only a safe peace even though everyone has nukes, nobody uses them.

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

Then as in real world terms there’s only a safe peace even though everyone has nukes, nobody uses them.

Yes, but if there was a war and both sides in that war have nuclear weapons, its not a matter of who would use them, but who would be the first to use them.
The Resistance and the First Order are at war. Both have access to this technology. Both can utilise this technology. The Resistance was the first to use it, so that line in the sand has been crossed. Considering the First Order's economic strength, it should now be creating weapon systems that utilise this tactic and coming up with a counter-measure should it be used against them again.

Drumpot

Saruhashi wrote: »

There are reports of pilots in WW1 using the planes as weapons when everything else failed.

This was happening in 1914 in the first major warfare to ever involve aircraft and only 9 years after the first ever flight in 1903.

From August 1944 until the end of WW2 the Japanese were training pilots to deliberately fly into military targets and almost 4,000 pilots died doing exactly that. Less than half a decade after the first ever flight and in the 3rd major conflict involving aircraft (after WW1 and the Spanish Civil War).

The truth is that bombs and missiles in our world do way more damage than aircraft so it's not a viable tactic.

How much damage can a single plane do compared to a single nuclear bomb?

In the Star Wars universe light-speed travel has been around for millennia and the damage caused by object travelling at light-speed is massive as seen in The Last Jedi. A single ship can cripple an entire fleet.

A single object travelling at lightspeed can do more damage that anything we've seen before with the exception of Death Stars and StarKillers and armies have had the technology for 1000s of years.

Seems bizarre it would only be used as a once off tactic.

It seems bizarre but there are plenty of bizarre things in the SW universe that require a suspension of disbelief. Things happen in wars that can seem odd or stupid ways for armies to get caught out but it happens.

The visual impact of crashing two planes into The twin towers has arguably had way more of a damaging impact on the US then any bomb, possibly since Pearl harbour. Its not necessarily the same as Kamikazee pilots but I am still curious as to why no enemy of the US (there are many) thought of this before. I mean they tried the more complicated way by putting a bomb in the car park, it sort of seems like a no brainer now!

Ok, I have moved off the point that is crazy sh*t happens in wars and something that works once wont always be copied for numerous reasons. One being, like you said, that counter measures are introduced.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

Yes, but if there was a war and both sides in that war have nuclear weapons, its not a matter of who would use them, but who would be the first to use them.
The Resistance and the First Order are at war. Both have access to this technology. Both can utilise this technology. The Resistance was the first to use it, so that line in the sand has been crossed. Considering the First Order's economic strength, it should now be creating weapon systems that utilise this tactic and coming up with a counter-measure should it be used against them again.

They already have the tech to stop it happening. Interdictor class Star destroyers. Can stop ships going to hyperspace and can pull ships out of hyperspace l.
They just have to make sure each deployment of First order ships now has to include an interdictor in each deployment. They look a bit mental.

Drumpot

Falthyron wrote: »

Yes, but if there was a war and both sides in that war have nuclear weapons, its not a matter of who would use them, but who would be the first to use them.
The Resistance and the First Order are at war. Both have access to this technology. Both can utilise this technology. The Resistance was the first to use it, so that line in the sand has been crossed. Considering the First Order's economic strength, it should now be creating weapon systems that utilise this tactic and coming up with a counter-measure should it be used against them again.

Or maybe, like many big armies, the resistance don't feel a need to use such tactics. They are confident of winning and view the act of Holdo as guerrilla warfare from a desperate enemy. Wouldn't be the first villians to underestimate the resistance in the SW universe . .

david75

so Indy is in Star Wars Phantom menace.

https://twitter.com/sw_holocron/status/962850461815623680

Falthyron

This is very on-point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV9m8frtGHg

There is a gloss now and Disney keep reinforcing that gloss. There was some honesty to the prequels and it can be seen in the making-of documentaries. Sure, the final message from George is that he believes in his films, but we see the 'kicking and screaming' to get there. Star Wars is, in many ways, a political entity now and it must follow the 'Everything is Awesome' mantra advocated for by Disney.

david75

I think people miss the point with those guys. Their whole thing is comedy (supposedly) dressed up as film criticism. They’re really no good at either. I find them nauseating tbh.

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

I think people miss the point with those guys. Their whole thing is comedy (supposedly) dressed up as film criticism. They’re really no good at either. I find them nauseating tbh.

I posted at 20:36. You commented at 20:38. The video is 3 minutes and 50 seconds long. You should watch the video, David. You might find it interesting.

Owryan

Finally got to watch this with my kids. My 9yo is a huge sw fan and this was the first time he was bored watching one of the films.

They introduce a dreadnought and do nothing with it, the whole Finn arc was stupid. One thing he pointed out was that the star destroyers/dreadnought seem to have hardly any air defence systems, they lost a death star to this flaw. he enjoyed the battle on Krait but i think i little part of me died when he said he thought sw was gone silly.

david75

Rogue one - everybody dies
TFA- Han Dies & film causes civil war online
TLJ - Luke dies and film causes civil war 2 only worse
Rebels ends- everybody is probably going to die

man that’s some ‘everything is awesome’ gloss they’re going for.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

I posted at 20:36. You commented at 20:38. The video is 3 minutes and 50 seconds long. You should watch the video, David. You might find it interesting.

I watched their entire TLJ review. It was enough

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

I watched their entire TLJ review. It was enough

This isn't about TLJ. Its about Star Wars, the franchise.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

Rogue one - everybody dies
TFA- Han Dies & film causes civil war online
TLJ - Luke dies and film causes civil war 2 only worse
Rebels ends- everybody is probably going to die

man that’s some ‘everything is awesome’ gloss they’re going for.

I think the RLM guys really don't like fandom in general. That could be the good fans or the bad fans.

The "gloss" they are talking about is the Disney PR spin on everything.

They are basically saying that the originals, and the prequels to a lesser extent, feel more authentic but the new stuff feels like it's expertly marketed but not very genuine.

I thought they made some good points here.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

This isn't about TLJ. Its about Star Wars, the franchise.

I’ll give it a spin. Full disclosure I did love their TFA review. That was genuinely funny.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

I think the RLM guys really don't like fandom in general. That could be the good fans or the bad fans.

The "gloss" they are talking about is the Disney PR spin on everything.

They are basically saying that the originals, and the prequels to a lesser extent, feel more authentic but the new stuff feels like it's expertly marketed but not very genuine.

I thought they made some good points here.

I’m getting worried about twitter and fb tracking my conversations. This popped up directly after your post (I don’t at all think it was an irrelevant franchise but it was headed that way). Some good points within.

How Disney revolutionized an irrelevant Star Wars franchise
https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2018/02/12/disney-revolutionized-star-wars/

Wheeliebin30

Yeah I dont understand how the star destroyer at the start and the one leia was blown out of didnt have shields when every other ship does?????

david75

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Yeah I dont understand how the star destroyer at the start and the one leia was blown out of didnt have shields when every other ship does?????

Ooh that’s a good one. The Dreadnought (I think that’s what you’re referring to? With the deadly commander that says ‘five bloody minutes ago) it’s basically nothing but a weapons platform. They obviously don’t think a single x wing is a threat at all. And he takes out all their surface canons quite quickly allowing the resistance bombers to roll in and try hit it. So just first order being arrogant basically.

The shields on Leias is a good question. No idea. Think kylo took the shields out when he goes through the tunnel inside it maybe?