Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Relikk

VII and VIII are much too different in tone for me to believe that there were specific instructions from the executive producers on what to do and where to go.

david75

Tbh I want to agree but TFA and TLJ actually flow seemlessly into each other and have similar tone . TLJ is totally overstuffed though whereas TFA is pretty much just one storyline, Reys, with brief jumps to kylo.
The pacing is also the same. Whereas TFA Flies but TLJ does too but has sooo much going on it feels slower.

Imo

Falthyron

david75 wrote: »

I dunno. There’s a few hundred pages here of people insisting Disney told JJ and Rian what to do and wouldn’t let them have any creative freedom. Despite all evidence to the contrary.

I'm not talking about creative freedom. I'm talking about the lack of an overarching storyline, an absence of consistency in the purpose and narrative across the trilogy.

There was no grand plan, just different directors coming in to push their own story with very little consideration as to what came before or what will come later.

Relikk

david75 wrote: »

TFA and TLJ actually flow seemlessly into each other and have similar tone.

The time-frame and reasoning of the evacuation and the subsequent chase still makes no sense to me. The only part that makes sense to me is the continuation of the Rey and Luke introduction, and only because they had to do it. Even with the ridiculous resolution of it, if they didn't continue on from that cliffhanger there would have been uproar. From that point on I got no feelings of anything that resembled VII.

Falthyron

Relikk wrote: »

The time-frame and reasoning of the evacuation and the subsequent chase still makes no sense to me.

Deathstar 3.0 or Starkiller base had locked on to the location of the Resistance base in TFA. It was moments away from firing before Poe and Co. blew it up. The First Order knew were the Resistance were hiding so it was only a matter of time before they hopped inside their ships and flew to the location. As for the chase, yeah, lazy story-telling and a far-fetched setup as one of the main lines in the film.

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

I'm not talking about creative freedom. I'm talking about the lack of an overarching storyline, an absence of consistency in the purpose and narrative across the trilogy.

There was no grand plan, just different directors coming in to push their own story with very little consideration as to what came before or what will come later.

George didn’t have a grand plan either making the OT. I agree with you. There wasn’t one in place here.
But the trilogy Johnson’s doing and the GOT lads are doing will have that in place.
Bear in mind 7&8 were totally free of any huge drama during production outside Fords leg being broken by the falcon. That lead to some rewrites and reshoots that worked to the films benefit overall. (And much better performances from Ford upon his return according to Kasdan).

I don’t agree there was no consideration to what came before. Johnson read the TFA script and saw dailies during production. JJ is executive producer on the last Jedi so it’s not like he didn’t know and couldn’t have stopped Johnson in his tracks and asked for rewrites. He could have. As could Kennedy. They didn’t cos they were happy with it.

Johnson was told ‘this is where we left off. This is where we need to end up. Do whatever you want to get us there’. So there is some sort of plan whoever vague in terms of end point. He just went wild with his chapter. Some people aren’t on board with that but some people are.

david75

Relikk wrote: »

The time-frame and reasoning of the evacuation and the subsequent chase still makes no sense to me. The only part that makes sense to me is the continuation of the Rey and Luke introduction, and only because they had to do it. Even with the ridiculous resolution of it, if they didn't continue on from that cliffhanger there would have been uproar. From that point on I got no feelings of anything that resembled VII.

I get you.
You hear at the end of TFA that the starkiller base is recharging its weapon and it’s target is the planet rebel base is on. So it’s been set up in TFA that the first order know where the resistance are. Also they hyperspace tracking would allow them to know and follow the resistance anywhere. So they blow up the SK base and the first orders military turns up to strike back. You have to remember it’s almost immediately and no time jump.
Towards there being a disconnect for you I can only say for me having watched them a few times back to back that it works really well and hope it does for you when you see it again.

david75

I didn’t t see Falthyron had already responded sorry.

david75

Cool.

https://twitter.com/breznican/status/969593288524226560

david75

Falthyron wrote: »

I'm not talking about creative freedom. I'm talking about the lack of an overarching storyline, an absence of consistency in the purpose and narrative across the trilogy.

There was no grand plan, just different directors coming in to push their own story with very little consideration as to what came before or what will come later.

Pulled that JJ quote above straight from his appearance on Colbert but doesn't cite the source. Ace reporting there.

Also, Daisy's quote is a translation. I'd love to see footage of what she actually says.

Also, I think it's a good thing that each director is allowed to do his own thing with these movies. If it's true, it helps pull back on some of the things people having been thinking/saying about Lucasfilm having too much control and not allowing directors to do their own work (much more the Marvel model).

Also, Daisy's pretty careful to say "I think" a lot. She could be wrong about all of it. If this is an accurate translation, it's pretty clear that she's trying to assemble all the things she's heard into something like a coherent timeline/narrative. There's a strong chance when she says "draft" she means "outline" or "treatment." I definitely remember multiple reports back before TFA dropped that said JJ was writing trilogy outlines and that he would even be overseeing all of the Star Wars films going forward as a creative producer. So...

Point of all this? I don't see how this is a bomb. And if any of it is accurate, and I hope it is, I like that Rian and JJ worked together through a lot of the process. I think that's really cool. Hopefully, the same is true of 9. But either way, we have two excellent new films in the main saga that I adore. I have extremely high hopes for a third.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

George didn’t have a grand plan either making the OT.

That's not necessarily true. He did have ideas on where it was going and what he wanted from it, even though he made constant tweaks to the storyline here and there. He also had years of character and backstory preceding the actual filming. So, things had been in his head for a long time. That's why the world of Lucas' Star Wars feels weighted and full, as opposed to the empty boxes of the Disney sequels.

Diz Warz is, literally, being made up as it goes along and the sheer lack of any joined up threads, logical throughputs and completely vacuous characters is testament to that.

Johnson scraped every single thing from 'The Force Awakens' (bar Abram's dumb ending which hamstrung Johnson into a timeframe) and there was nothing in the way of continuation laid down after filming wrapped from 'The Last Jedi'.

So, now we have a situation where Abrams has to make shit up again, almost entrely, for the last film in this so called trilogy.

It's a crazy way to make something like this and I don't think posterity is going to be too kind to these films when they're revised.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

That's not necessarily true. He did have ideas on where it was going and what he wanted from it, even though he made constant tweaks to the storyline here and there. He also had years of character and backstory preceding the actual filming. So, things had been in his head for a long time. That's why the world of Lucas' Star Wars feels weighted and full, as opposed to the empty boxes of the Disney sequels.

Diz Warz is, literally, being made up as it goes along and the sheer lack of any joined up threads, logical throughputs and completely vacuous characters is testament to that.

Johnson scraped every single thing from 'The Force Awakens' (bar Abram's dumb ending which hamstrung Johnson into a timeframe) and there was nothing in the way of continuation laid down after filming wrapped from 'The Last Jedi'.

So, now we have a situation where Abrams has to make shit up again, almost entrely, for the last film in this so called trilogy.

It's a crazy way to make something like this and I don't think posterity is going to be too kind to these films when they're revised.

Tony! I’ve missed you!
Once again though you’re misinformed though. TFA in a small degree and TLJ to a great degree follows George’s plan for his sequel trilogy. If this continues you’re going to see Them mine Lucas’ ideas for the final chapter. As they have mined his Underworld scripts for the contents of the Solo movie.

There will be a knock out blow with 9 as the finale. It has to be done and finished yet at the same time leave some sort of gateway to a new saga trilogy in ten years (episode 10!) cos it’s just how this will go. But like anything you can’t judge the whole play having only seen the first two acts.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

Tony! I’ve missed you!
Once again though you’re misinformed though. TFA in a small degree and TLJ to a great degree follows George’s plan for his sequel trilogy. If this continues you’re going to see Them mine Lucas’ ideas for the final chapter. As they have mined his Underworld scripts for the contents of the Solo movie.

I don't believe this.

There may be some elements "mined" and placed here and there. But there hasn't been any throughline with these sequels at all.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

I don't believe this.

There may be some elements "mined" and placed here and there. But there hasn't been any throughline with these sequels at all.

It’s a fact. There’s tons of articles out there about it after the release of the art of the last Jedi book (which I have ) in which it tells you George’s plans for his sequels and what was to happen. It’s prety much exactly what happens in TLJ with relation to luke the academy a Jedi killer that then turns out to be han and leias son who luke was teaching but went rogue and a darker power behind him.

david75

Link. And they only cover some of it.

http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-sequel-trilogy/

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

It’s a fact. There’s tons of articles out there about it after the release of the art of the last Jedi book (which I have ) in which it tells you George’s plans for his sequels and what was to happen. It’s prety much exactly what happens in TLJ with relation to luke the academy a Jedi killer that then turns out to be han and leias son who luke was teaching but went rogue and a darker power behind him.

That's a couple of basic ideas.

That's not a story.

There's been no overarching story developed for the sequels or the characters.

david75

A start point and end point as well as in universe framework and characters implemented. Don’t know what more you’d ask for. You were one among many complaining about Disney micro managing the whole thing, so now, they’re not and haven’t been?
Which is it?

Tony EH

Pointless.

david75

Absolutely pointless to argue while Ill informed from both ends of an extreme and making contradictory points the whole way.

Tony EH

From your quote below, David, it's clear you're not even reading the points.

You were one among many complaining about Disney micro managing the whole thing

I've said no such thing.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

From your quote below, David, it's clear you're not even reading the points.



I've said no such thing.

You have though. Many many times. And I’ll point out you weren’t alone at all, there were many saying the same thing.

Tony EH

No David. I haven't EVER said that Disney are micro managing Star Wars.

I have stated that they have a say in how things progress, which is only natural after paying billions of dollars. It's, frankly, stupid to think otherwise.

Stop trying to assign your strawmen to other other people. We are well capable of making our own points.

If you aren't willing to listen or understand those points, there's no point in discussing anything with you.

david75

I’m in mourning.
John Williams has said episode 9 will be his final Star Wars film.

Somebody hold me.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

No David. I haven't EVER said that Disney are micro managing Star Wars.

I have stated that they have a say in how things progress, which is only natural after paying billions of dollars. It's, frankly, stupid to think otherwise.

Stop trying to assign your strawmen to other other people. We are well capable of making our own points.

If you aren't willing to listen or understand those points, there's no point in discussing anything with you.

Its not worth getting shouty about it but The thread and your posts speak for themselves. And your calling yourself a liar with the above. But hey. Let’s not.
I don’t give a flying puck eitherway it doesn’t affect my enjoyment one way or another. It just makes me wonder about yours. Hate watching films just to be able to complain seems pointless to me. But if that’s your jam go for it. Thank god for the Internet.

david75

If someone does do a fan edit it would be cool if they put this one in

https://twitter.com/futureotforce/status/969917867432046593?s=21

david75

Nobody is gonna like it Spoiler for TLJ audiobook.

Luke has trained Leia. She’s been trained enough to reach out and sense different peoples thoughts and emotions. And sense their presence. Also well enough to be able to sense Luke anytime and from across the galaxy. She senses ‘when he was betrayed’ and he was like a storm in the force(this presumably about Bens turning). Then he was suddenly gone and she hasn’t been able to reach him in years.

.ak

david75 wrote: »

I’m in mourning.
John Williams has said episode 9 will be his final Star Wars film.

Somebody hold me.

Probably an unpopular opinion but I thought his work in TFA/TLJ to be fairly weak compared to the OT and prequels. No real stand out movements for me except for Kylo's theme.

david75

.ak wrote: »

Probably an unpopular opinion but I thought his work in TFA/TLJ to be fairly weak compared to the OT and prequels. No real stand out movements for me except for Kylo's theme.

TFA has reys theme and Jedi steps And kylos theme. Those are truly worthy additions to his sw works. The rest of TFA was forgettable.

TLJ was a greatest hits mix tape. It’s all the very best themes from the OT but reworked here and there and tweaked and changed to be played in the minor rather than the major. It’s up there with his best just for being all the hits but different.

He is still the master. He always will be. Star Wars would be nothing and have none of its magic if his music wasn’t involved. It is the secret sauce I really believe that.


I just hope whoever they get in after can elaborate and not repeat. I think we need to keep the main fanfare Star Wars theme obviously. But after that go wild.

Vladimir Poontang

david75

That’s probably the best gif ever