Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

david75

This isn't exact trailer footage from TFA but the comparison stands
There's obviously a formula to these things.
https://twitter.com/xwithmywoes/status/853427567604445185

Tony EH

faceman wrote: »

Interesting trailer. Full of symbolism and throwbacks to the OT. Multiple echoes of Empire Strikes Back.

Really hope Skywaker's comment about the end of the Jedi marks an evolutionary update to the series in terms of the force and Star Wars religion. Really hope this isn't just ESB remade.

That's what I'm afraid of.





I really hope their not going to just do another cut and paste job.

david75

It'll be grand. Rian Johnson has said it's full of surprise twists we've never seen.

Is perspective bias a real thing? Well probably have people say good it's Empire cos they want to see it as empire.

Only echo of empire we know that is happening is Luke initially refuses to train Rey but goes on to train her. As with Yoda refusing to train him but training him.
He won't be training her as a Jedi though. That's almost confirmed. Johnson said yesterday luke is the last Jedi. And 'the last Jedi' is singular.

david75

He's in here towards the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGlEoIxCrvo

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

It'll be grand. Rian Johnson has said it's full of surprise twists we've never seen.

Is perspective bias a real thing? Well probably have people say good it's Empire cos they want to see it as empire.

Only echo of empire we know that is happening is Luke initially refuses to train Rey but goes on to train her. As with Yoda refusing to train him but training him.
He won't be training her as a Jedi though. That's almost confirmed. Johnson said yesterday luke is the last Jedi. And 'the last Jedi' is singular.

I think most people would much rather NOT see another remake.

Maybe Disney are just fcuking with us, because of the well deserved backlash that TFA got for its lame copypasta effort.

david75

Still convinced the loudest complaints you're gonna hear is from Star Wars fans saying it's just too different for their taste. People are gonna complain either way.
Weird they didn't show Laura Derns character or del Toros though. But I suspect that's where the other curveballs will come from in the story.

They weren't present at the TLJ panel/trailer at celebration this weekend either.
Odd

david75

For example, just based on the trailer-


'good guy ships engaging bad guy walkers

good guys' base attacked and destroyed by bad guys

young jedi training in remote location with old jedi wizard

but enough about empire..'

david75

Closing ceremony for celebration is 9pm tonight.

That's the last hope of any Obi Wan film being announced.
Ewan didn't even make a video for the 40th anniversary panel where liam neeson and Sam Jackson even did. Totally conspicuous by his absence in person or in video. (His uncle Dennis Lawson who played Wedge even appeared and he hates Star Wars)

If no announcement it probably confirms that Obi Wan dies in fact appear in TLJ and they're still using him as part of the saga, as is rumoured.
Let's see.

pixelburp

david75 wrote: »

It'll be grand. Rian Johnson has said it's full of surprise twists we've never seen.

And of course, no director would ever bad mouth his own work, or sabotage its hype.

I think Johnson's hiring was a big statement that Disney wanted at least some semblance of a creative vision and the imprint of the auteur, but that faith will only go so far: the proof of the pudding will be in the eating & a healthy caution is best applied here instead of a breathless "it'll all be amazing". We simply don't know how much leeway Johnson will/has received, or even chooses to apply.

Disney know how to craft a film, lets face it they're masters of the crowd-pleasing craft, but their own Beauty and the Beast remake from this very year should be a sensible cautionary tale that they're more than happy to simply carbon-copy what came before.

david75

pixelburp wrote: »

And of course, no director would ever bad mouth his own work, or sabotage its hype.

I think Johnson's hiring was a big statement that Disney wanted at least some semblance of a creative vision and the imprint of the auteur, but that faith will only go so far: the proof of the pudding will be in the eating & a healthy caution is best applied here instead of a breathless "it'll all be amazing". We simply don't know how much leeway Johnson will/has received, or even chooses to apply.

Disney know how to craft a film, lets face it they're masters of the crowd-pleasing craft, but their own Beauty and the Beast remake from this very year should be a sensible cautionary tale that they're more than happy to simply carbon-copy what came before.

What do you actually want?
From a Star Wars film?
There's millions of us all with our own headcanon.
So do they meet my expectations? Yours?

You're probably about to get the most challenging and difficult Star Wars film ever. Certainly more than Colin treverows will be.
Weird the way rampant personal expectations come in to play. We haven't even seen it.

kirk buttercup

david75 wrote:

What do you actually want? From a Star Wars film? There's millions of us all with our own headcanon. So do they meet my expectations? Yours?

I brought my kids to see the TFA and Rogue one they loved it as much as I loved the originals . So if they keep doing that, fine with me. I enjoyed both too. I often wonder if I watched a new hope for the first time now (As an adult ) would I be as blown away, nostalgia plays a big part I think. Anyhow either way people will complain even if they put out the best one yet .

py2006

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b89T74ToK9E

david75

YouTube breakdown videos are people saying anything to monetise their theories.
Don't ever look up mike Zeroh. That's all he does.

Listowel Man

the trailer was amazing

pixelburp

david75 wrote: »

What do you actually want?
From a Star Wars film?
There's millions of us all with our own headcanon.
So do they meet my expectations? Yours?

You're probably about to get the most challenging and difficult Star Wars film ever. Certainly more than Colin treverows will be.
Weird the way rampant personal expectations come in to play. We haven't even seen it.

No none of us have seen it, so do you include your own 'rampant personal expectations' here David, because respectfully, you're just as guilty of speculation as I am

It's obvious to anyone reading these Star Wars threads that you're something of a super-fan of the franchise, and good luck to you; there's nothing wrong with that, and you'll find my own happy obsession over on the Dr. Who forum so I'm not judging But confidently exclaiming how 'challenging and difficult' a Disney film is going to be without so much as a clip to go by is letting your hype get the better of you a tad.

Rian Johnson's output so far has been that of a director with a supremely confident and signature style, but not necessarily that of someone 'challenging' the audience. I don't think 'The Brothers Bloom' could be accused as being 'difficult', as zippy & whimsical a film as it is. 'Looper' came as close to a certain level of ... maturity? I suppose, but it was more of a Hitchcock-style mystery to baffle the audience than something complex to rattle the viewer.

I'm a big fan of his work and certainly would far prefer an auteur like him at the helm than... say, John Moore - lordy, could you imagine the trainwreck - but he will be on a creative leash - a longer one probably than most blockbusters - but still a leash none the less. I suspect, for all his fandom of the series, this will be his 'one for them & one for me' contract.

Similarly, Disney have showed ZERO sign of being willingly to shake up its own tone or formulae, and the last time it tried that IMO was in 1979 with The Black Hole & that was a total disaster. They keep things safe, whether it be with those IPs they own such as the Marvel universe, or the direct franchises; I'm merely expressing a little caution that in light of the verbatim remake of Beauty and The Beast, Disney do not challenge the audience, they coddle it.

AND THAT'S FINE. They do what they do and do it well, but I would caution the total hyperventilation that Episode VIII will be some tremendous oeuvre that shatters what we know as 'Star Wars'. I suspect the speculation over the 'Grey Jedi' is probably on the mark & long overdue in the official canon, but ultimately Episode VII will be about keeping a family franchise profitable (No more than it did when at Lucasarts).

david75

I'm chewing that over.
What I meant by challenging was the hardcore Star Wars fans are gonna get a film that upends their expectations of Star Wars. In the story and thematically. Not just with the evident disruption of the established canon/format. Luke abandoning Jedi teaching for a new model has already divided the fanbase severely into those up for it and those in uproar about it.
I don't know where I land. Right now I'm up for new takes and interpretations though as a hardcore fan. When I see it I may be appalled.
Rogue one did that to me. It threw me completely cos it didn't fit my view of Star Wars. I'll come around. It was a powerful opening salvo by LFL letting us know the game is about to change in a big way.

They won't follow a film like R1 which was broadly divisive with a 'safe' film. They've set a course thematically across all the platforms, films books and comics, and it's up to us to adjust.

It sounds silly maybe but the thinking may well be 'we have them. They're gonna come see it anyways. Let's be brave and make some decisions that are alarming to the fan base'.

TLJ already feels like a weird incongruous follow up to TFA to me. Just hope it is and as I said, people are gonna complain no matter what it does. So it might as well be totally a different beast with that in mind. It definitely won't be empire II. That I do know. But because it's dark and Rey is being trained, that's what you're gonna hear. Ad nauseum.

Jan_de_Bakker

That smashed mask was Kylo Rens right ?

A colleague of mine is insisting it's Vaders ... but it looks more like Rens ..

Lithium93_

Jan_de_Bakker wrote: »

That smashed mask was Kylo Rens right ?

A colleague of mine is insisting it's Vaders ... but it looks more like Rens ..

It's Kylo's helmet.

david75

Definitely kylos. We hear Vader breathing over it. This is leading people to think it's Vaders. It's not.

Wedwood

It's good that they're shaking everything up with Luke's changed view of the Jedi. It makes the prospect of the new movies far more interesting as they could go in unexpected directions rather than a tick box sequence leading to a pre determined restoration of the Jedi.

When Return of the Jedi was released in 1983, I thought the title referred to Luke alone and not a full restoration of the Jedi order. Bear in mind the original title 'Revenge of the Jedi' clearly pointed to Luke avenging the losses they had suffered in Empire Strikes Back. (They changed the title to 'Return' to avoid clashing with the then titled 'Vengeance of Khan')

Interestingly, at no point in the original trilogy does anyone explicitly state they want to fully restore the Jedi Order as it subsequently appeared in the Prequels, rather its a far more subdued 'pass on what you have learned'.

J Mysterio

Luke is gonna be a badass mothafooker in this.

Sad Professor

I don't think we should read too much into Luke's line that "the Jedi must end". Remember Sydow's line in TFA about there being no balance without Jedi. Also, consider that we see Rey training using a Jedi weapon. Luke can get back to a purer version of the Jedi without ending them entirely. Baby with the bathwater, etc.

I think Luke is just despondent when Rey finds him. After what happened with Kylo Ben, he decided he had done more harm than good, which is the easiest explanation for why he sat out TFA. I expect him to be in pretty bad shape. Picture a washed up old samurai, maybe even a drunk. The opposite in every way to the older, wiser Han Solo in TFA. So when Rey turns up, Luke is indifferent to her plight and tells her to go away and that the Jedi are over and will end when he dies. No plan, no nothing, just a broken old man. But... our protagonist Rey convinces him to train her.

david75

George was already setting down a break from the binary of light and dark and was moving into exploring the force outside the Jedi/sith dogma as early as the clone wars. (Anakin and Obi Wan get taken to a place outside like a temporal conduit that force comes through and there they meet the father son and daughter. The son is the dark side the daughter is the light and the father maintains balance but he's dying and wants Anakin to replace him as he's the chosen one. He refuses.).

Also cool arc with Yoda going to dagobah and having a sort of force vision quest and force beings that make him go through a series of tests to broaden his understanding of the living and cosmic force.

All this was George's stuff and remains canon.

Be interesting to how it will apply to Luke given he's found an early Jedi temple (a massive force tree-that's where you see the books on the altar)
Looks like he's found a new path and the Jedi way is redundant to him.

Blazer

Tony EH wrote: »

That's what I'm afraid of.





I really hope their not going to just do another cut and paste job.

It's Abrams... cope and paste all the way. And lens flare

pjohnson

If this film is actually original it'd be great. If its like the Force Awakens and very similar to the previous trilogy it will be anticlimactic.

I found Rogue One an amazing movie. And great example of how making new content in this verse can be great success.

J Mysterio

Sad Professor wrote: »

I don't think we should read too much into Luke's line that "the Jedi must end". Remember Sydow's line in TFA about there being no balance without Jedi. Also, consider that we see Rey training using a Jedi weapon. Luke can get back to a purer version of the Jedi without ending them entirely. Baby with the bathwater, etc.

I think Luke is just despondent when Rey finds him. After what happened with Kylo Ben, he decided he had done more harm than good, which is the easiest explanation for why he sat out TFA. I expect him to be in pretty bad shape. Picture a washed up old samurai, maybe even a drunk. The opposite in every way to the older, wiser Han Solo in TFA. So when Rey turns up, Luke is indifferent to her plight and tells her to go away and that the Jedi are over and will end when he dies. No plan, no nothing, just a broken old man. But... our protagonist Rey convinces him to train her.

Agree 100%

Falthyron

Sad Professor wrote: »

I don't think we should read too much into Luke's line that "the Jedi must end". Remember Sydow's line in TFA about there being no balance without Jedi. Also, consider that we see Rey training using a Jedi weapon. Luke can get back to a purer version of the Jedi without ending them entirely. Baby with the bathwater, etc.

I think Luke is just despondent when Rey finds him. After what happened with Kylo Ben, he decided he had done more harm than good, which is the easiest explanation for why he sat out TFA. I expect him to be in pretty bad shape. Picture a washed up old samurai, maybe even a drunk. The opposite in every way to the older, wiser Han Solo in TFA. So when Rey turns up, Luke is indifferent to her plight and tells her to go away and that the Jedi are over and will end when he dies. No plan, no nothing, just a broken old man. But... our protagonist Rey convinces him to train her.

During the Last Jedi panel at Star Wars Celebration, Daisy Ridley said something along the lines of not wanting to meet your hero because they can end up being a disappointment or not what you expected. This certainly fits into your theory that he is a broken man who has given up. Clearly, Rey has gone to Luke for training/guidance/answers and considering everyone's opinion of him and the need to find him, she is expecting a great hero, so I guess she finds something very far removed from that.

J Mysterio

I can't believe how well received Rogue One was (and continues to be). I found it so flat, the characters so insipid.

Blazer

J Mysterio wrote: »

I can't believe how well received Rogue One was (and continues to be). I found it so flat, the characters so insipid.

Probably because it was a lot darker than the rest and no stupid annoying creatures or robots. I enjoyed it immensely compared to the god awful prequels.

pjohnson

J Mysterio wrote: »

I can't believe how well received Rogue One was (and continues to be). I found it so flat, the characters so insipid.

I found it super enjoyable. I guess part of that could be the sheer uniqueness of a movie fitting into a universe without having 3-4 tie in/sequels in the work. Such a great breath of fresh air. I did like most characters aswell (Baze, Cassian were meh's)