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Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

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Comments

  • #1952
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    Penn wrote: »
    TFA was very similar to ANH but purposefully so. After the prequels, it brings the story back to being very similar to the original, but the important things aren't how it's similar, but how they're different. They have now set things up to go with sequels completely different to Empire and Jedi.

    What utter fanboy defense! It was lazy and disgraceful that they couldn't come up with a new story. I did like the new characters but essentially re-making ANH is indefensible and IMO they had no excuse.


  • #1953
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    david75 wrote: »
    He has very sarcastically said ‘yeah of course I spent the last three years of my life remaking empire strikes back’.

    It’ll be nothing like empire. Some people are gonna try say it is regardless.

    I'm not so sure, I've only seen the trailers but:

    - Leia looking out of a base blast doors, like Hoth
    - Fighters flying across white sandy planet like Hoth big battle
    - Finn in revival suit like bacta tank
    - Rey spending a lot of the film finding herself and jedi training from master
    - palpatine like person (snoke)

    I really hope 100% it's nothing like Empire but the above wouldn't fill me with confidence, really hope I'm wrong.


  • #1954
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,042 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    david75 wrote: »
    The whole point of TFA was the force awakening in Rey. It’s the main thrust of this one and even in the trailer that’s on show. The Mary Sue thing was really lazy criticism. Kinda sexist too. Nobody questioned a 9 year old boy with super powers in the prequels cos they have his story already. We just don’t have the rest of Reys yet. That much was obvious To everyone except those making the Mary Sue complaints.

    Agreed. We saw in ANH how Luke could deflect the blast shots without being able to see them just by letting the Force work through him, same with how his shot blew up the Death Star without targetting. He had no knowledge of the Force before the events of the film.

    Rey has some knowledge of the Force through stories about Luke etc, and after her visions upon touching the lightsaber and what Maz tells her, she allows the Force to work through her. She doesn't know how, she just knows if the Force is strong in her, it should allow her to do these things, so she lets it. We see it most clearly when fighting Kylo Ren. He says he can show her the ways of the Force, and she pauses, breathes, and lets the Force dictate her actions in order to defeat him (plus how he was wounded).

    We don't know why she's strong with the Force, but Luke went from farmboy bullseye-ing womp rats in his T16 back home to blowing up the Death Star in a X-wing without his targeting system in his first film and no-one really batted an eyelid.


  • #1955
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,447 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    david75 wrote: »
    The whole point of TFA was the force awakening in Rey. It’s the main thrust of this one and even in the trailer that’s on show. The Mary Sue thing was really lazy criticism. Kinda sexist too. Nobody questioned a 9 year old boy with super powers in the prequels cos they have his story already. We just don’t have the rest of Reys yet. That much was obvious To everyone except those making the Mary Sue complaints.

    PLENTY of people questioned what that 9 year old boy could do.

    Rey was just too much and it flt cheap and unearned. That's why a lot of people were turned off by her. Too much stuff came too easy to her. It was ridiculous.


  • #1956
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,042 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Theboinkmaster wrote: »
    What utter fanboy defense! It was lazy and disgraceful that they couldn't come up with a new story. I did like the new characters but essentially re-making ANH is indefensible and IMO they had no excuse.

    Genuinely wouldn't consider myself a Star Wars fanboy. I like the original films, I like Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan, and I liked TFA and Rogue One. But I have no problem saying TFA definitely has its flaws. Phasma was Phucking awful. C3PO should have just been done away with (he's not even worth keeping for fan-service at this point). Some of the dialogue was awful. The monster on Han's ship wasn't necessary at all. Domhnall Gleeson was laughably bad (particularly his great, triumphant speech) and the idea behind Starkiller Base was such utter, utter bullsh*t. I also didn't buy the bromance between Poe and Finn. I think the guy who plays Finn is a great actor, but he was given some of the worst lines in the film.

    But how the film emulates ANH isn't one of the bigger problems I have with the film. I enjoyed the familiarity of it while embracing the differences, and it gave me A New Hope (b'dum tsch) about the saga going forward.


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  • #1957
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    Penn wrote: »
    Genuinely wouldn't consider myself a Star Wars fanboy. I like the original films, I like Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan, and I liked TFA and Rogue One. But I have no problem saying TFA definitely has its flaws. Phasma was Phucking awful. C3PO should have just been done away with (he's not even worth keeping for fan-service at this point). Some of the dialogue was awful. The monster on Han's ship wasn't necessary at all. Domhnall Gleeson was laughably bad (particularly his great, triumphant speech) and the idea behind Starkiller Base was such utter, utter bullsh*t. I also didn't buy the bromance between Poe and Finn. I think the guy who plays Finn is a great actor, but he was given some of the worst lines in the film.

    But how the film emulates ANH isn't one of the bigger problems I have with the film. I enjoyed the familiarity of it while embracing the differences, and it gave me A New Hope (b'dum tsch) about the saga going forward.

    Fair comments, couldn't argue with any of that! I was just really disappointed with the overall story and unoriginality of it - I was willing to overlook some of the flaws you had issue with but that was my main gripe.

    It did set things up well and obliterate the prequels, I've high hopes for the last jedi.

    Was disappointed Rian wasn't allowed do ep 9 as really like him, not happy with JJ being back.


  • #1958
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,447 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Penn wrote: »
    Genuinely wouldn't consider myself a Star Wars fanboy. I like the original films, I like Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan, and I liked TFA and Rogue One. But I have no problem saying TFA definitely has its flaws. Phasma was Phucking awful. C3PO should have just been done away with (he's not even worth keeping for fan-service at this point). Some of the dialogue was awful. The monster on Han's ship wasn't necessary at all. Domhnall Gleeson was laughably bad (particularly his great, triumphant speech) and the idea behind Starkiller Base was such utter, utter bullsh*t. I also didn't buy the bromance between Poe and Finn. I think the guy who plays Finn is a great actor, but he was given some of the worst lines in the film.

    But how the film emulates ANH isn't one of the bigger problems I have with the film. I enjoyed the familiarity of it while embracing the differences, and it gave me A New Hope (b'dum tsch) about the saga going forward.

    Agree with most of that, except the last part (obviously). That's where I have to differ. I found it a let down that it was so close. But anyway...


  • #1959
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,042 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    And I can see why people do have an issue with it and how similar it was to the plot of ANH, but my hope is that The Last Jedi will be where we see those minor differences really come to fruition and get a brand new Star Wars experience, unburdened by the need for nostalgia and bringing the series back to its roots as a palette cleanser for how disappointing the prequels were.


  • #1960
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,447 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Well, I hope so. We all do really.

    But, I have a feeling that a lot of Abram's mystery boxes are just going to be left unanswered.


  • #1961
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Well, I hope so. We all do really.

    But, I have a feeling that a lot of Abram's mystery boxes are just going to be left unanswered.

    Once they don't leave the Max Von Sydow back story unanswered I'll be ok with the rest


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  • #1962
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Peatys wrote: »
    Once they don't leave the Max Von Sydow back story unanswered I'll be ok with the rest

    They’re doing that already in the comics. He’s a Jedi relic hunter who has worked with Luke to find out lost Jedi lore and he’s head of the church of the force.
    It’s in the poe dameron comics. It’s looking likely that Luke left info on wher he was going to pass on at the right time.

    The big question is to who? Why is he and his church on Jakku same as Rey?
    Theory is they’re kinda watching over her and would have given her the map at the right time but the resistance comes looking for it first.

    Who knows?


    See this one tiny little thing alone is totally unlike anything in ANH yet people ignore it. There’s loads of this stuff. How did maz get Luke’s saber for example?


  • #1963
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    david75 wrote: »
    See this one tiny little thing alone is totally unlike anything in ANH yet people ignore it. There’s loads of this stuff. How did maz get Luke’s saber for example?

    The story of how the lightsaber got to Maz was scripted, some of it possibly shot, but ultimately cut out. You can still find the outline of the scenes from the TFA leak online. However, that outline suggests other things that might be considered a major spoiler depending on whether Johnson kept Abrams's ideas.


  • #1964
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Theboinkmaster wrote: »
    I'm not so sure, I've only seen the trailers but:

    - Leia looking out of a base blast doors, like Hoth
    - Fighters flying across white sandy planet like Hoth big battle
    - Finn in revival suit like bacta tank
    - Rey spending a lot of the film finding herself and jedi training from master
    - palpatine like person (snoke)

    I really hope 100% it's nothing like Empire but the above wouldn't fill me with confidence, really hope I'm wrong.


    I think if these are the kind of things that bother you you’re probably already predisposed to have problems with it. Each of those things are just images not story points with the exception of Rey which is an actually important story point. It’s the main story in fact.

    She doesn’t go to find Luke to be trained, her mission is to get him to come back. That much is known. He might not even train her. Looks like he refuses to.
    The emperor had one scene in Empire. He’s barely even a background character at that point. Snoke has a far more developed role in this than The emperor had in Empire.


  • #1965
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    The story of how the lightsaber got to Maz was scripted, some of it possibly shot, but ultimately cut out. You can still find the outline of the scenes from the TFA leak online. However, that outline suggests other things that might be considered a major spoiler depending on whether Johnson kept Abrams's ideas.

    Yeah I’d say that’s all been jettisoned and we’ll never know how she got it unless in a book or comic. They won’t go near it in the films, maz herself only has a couple of scenes if that in TLJ. Unless we learn luke went and found it and left it with her to give to Rey at the right time. The complete locations book sorta suggests that much. As does the convo in TFA. Who’s the girl?/ that lightsaber is calling to you/ take it ie go find Skywalker


  • #1966
    py2006
    Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    carrie fisher dog Gary

    https://twitter.com/irishgeekgirl/status/938303373161517056

    https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/938314810290302977


  • #1967
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    david75 wrote: »
    Yeah I’d say that’s all been jettisoned and we’ll never know how she got it unless in a book or comic. They won’t go near it in the films, maz herself only has a couple of scenes if that in TLJ. Unless we learn luke went and found it and left it with her to give to Rey at the right time. The complete locations book sorta suggests that much. As does the convo in TFA. Who’s the girl?/ that lightsaber is calling to you/ take it ie go find Skywalker

    How do you mean Luke went and found it? He has his light saber at the end of rotj..

    Or is the one Mas has Anakins one from Bespin?


  • #1968
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Peatys wrote: »
    How do you mean Luke went and found it? He has his light saber at the end of rotj..

    Or is the one Mas has Anakins one from Bespin?

    From Bespin. The one that was in Luke's hand when it was cut off. Originally that's how TFA opened - with the saber floating through space and landing on a planet. Then later there was a flashback from the saber's POV explaining how Maz got it. Most of it was cut but bits of it survived into Rey's flashback in the final cut.


  • #1969
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Peatys wrote: »
    How do you mean Luke went and found it? He has his light saber at the end of rotj..

    Or is the one Mas has Anakins one from Bespin?


    They are two different lightsabers. The one he lost in Bespin is his and his fathers. It’s gone. Until the force awakens. So how did maz come by it years later?
    The one he has in ROTJ is a new one he made. Totally different hilt and the blade is green. Not blue like the first one.

    Deleted scene from ROTJ I still maintain should have been in the film. It’s deadly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyreW6l9PLY


  • #1970
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Star Wars A new hope is coming home

    https://twitter.com/cnbc/status/938054641136340992


  • #1971
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    If true it’s a brilliant move. Hunt for the wilderpeople was one of the most touching funny brilliant films in years.

    https://twitter.com/starwarstuff/status/938588676975742976


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  • #1972
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,447 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    david75 wrote: »
    They’re doing that already in the comics. He’s a Jedi relic hunter who has worked with Luke to find out lost Jedi lore and he’s head of the church of the force.
    It’s in the poe dameron comics. It’s looking likely that Luke left info on wher he was going to pass on at the right time

    That alone, would have made for a better film than TFA.


  • #1973
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Tony EH wrote: »
    That alone, would have made for a better film than TFA.

    Indiana Jones basically. Could be fun.


  • #1974
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Reading the art of the force awakens book and it would actually make you wonder and make you sad. Some of the concepts and designs are just amazing and most didn’t make it through. Some of it while awesome too sci if but still Star Wars. It’s unusual they went so hard on doubling down on the etablished design language of Star Wars in TFA when they clearly had mountains of material that could have made it look completely different.

    You can see where certain ones were adapted and evolved into on screen stuff. I do think the over familiarity people noticed came from that established design. This is somewhere I think TLJ will break off for the most part. The small hints of new ship designs and creature designs we’ve already seen seem to suggest as much.


  • #1975
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Genuinely funny interviews with the cast, particularly Adam Driver. He’s a really funny guy under it all :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA01xwFl61c


  • #1976
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    david75 wrote: »
    it’s unusual they went so hard on doubling down on the etablished design language of Star Wars in TFA when they clearly had mountains of material that could have made it look completely different.

    Easy to forget just how big a mountain they had to climb after the prequels and the endless special (cgi) editions to get bums back in seats for TFA.

    I remember a short was released prior to the film which was basically saying, look, real sets, real miniatures, real puppets.


  • #1977
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Yeah they pushed that hard and I’m glad they did. Really needed to get the message out that this wasn’t a CGI fest. Even though TFA actually has more cgi. Elements than all the prequels combined. It just was better at it given the tech has come so far.

    Still can’t believe that very first shot of BB8 is all CGI. He looks 100% real.


  • #1978
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Was watching a bit of rogue one earlier with the kids, its a superb addition to the series. I remember hearing about it being made and thought it was a bad idea, but its one of my favourites!

    I know many people are not crazy on the prequels but I would be interested in an emperor movie with Maul and Vader as his apprentice . Even back as far as Plageus would be cool. If nothing else but to explore more of the schemes of the emperor and gratuitous carnage from his apprentices. . How they could tie that into one movie I don't know, but I loved the Emperor in ROTS. On a side note, ROTS was a very enjoyable movie on its own, I reckon the prequels before had left people bitter and fed up, but it does have a decent 7.6 out of 10 rating on IMDB so not everybody disliked it!


  • #1979
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Drumpot wrote: »
    Was watching a bit of rogue one earlier with the kids, its a superb addition to the series. I remember hearing about it being made and thought it was a bad idea, but its one of my favourites!

    I know many people are not crazy on the prequels but I would be interested in an emperor movie with Maul and Vader as his apprentice . Even back as far as Plageus would be cool. If nothing else but to explore more of the schemes of the emperor and gratuitous carnage from his apprentices. . How they could tie that into one movie I don't know, but I loved the Emperor in ROTS. On a side note, ROTS was a very enjoyable movie on its own, I reckon the prequels before had left people bitter and fed up, but it does have a decent 7.6 out of 10 rating on IMDB so not everybody disliked it!

    There’s always the clone wars and rebels for that stuff. The emperor mail and Vader turn up all the way though.

    That season finale Twlight of the apprentice , with Ashokafacibg off against her old master Anakin but now he’s vader, is up there with anything on screen in Star Wars. You’ve gotta get through all clone wars and Rebels to get to it but boy is it worth it.


  • #1980
    py2006
    Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6fEpn_lzmw


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  • #1981
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Drumpot wrote: »
    Was watching a bit of rogue one earlier with the kids, its a superb addition to the series. I remember hearing about it being made and thought it was a bad idea, but its one of my favourites!

    I know many people are not crazy on the prequels but I would be interested in an emperor movie with Maul and Vader as his apprentice . Even back as far as Plageus would be cool. If nothing else but to explore more of the schemes of the emperor and gratuitous carnage from his apprentices. . How they could tie that into one movie I don't know, but I loved the Emperor in ROTS. On a side note, ROTS was a very enjoyable movie on its own, I reckon the prequels before had left people bitter and fed up, but it does have a decent 7.6 out of 10 rating on IMDB so not everybody disliked it!

    I too would like to see a story centred on the Sith and the Jedi purge but, this is Disney and they want to get as many seats filled and toys sold, so they're not going to show gratuitous violence or deal with dark subject matter. the director of R1 intended on making it a lot darker; blurring the lines of the rebels being only good and the Empire being only evil. Disney made him reshoot about 50% of the film after seeing his finished product. (His first flick was "Monsters", which he made for about 40k and was very good)

    Sadly, the chances of a Sith story that shows their ruthlessness and contempt for others will have to have a U-rating...which is like white-washing Hitler. That said, on youtube, you will find SW:the clone wars (2003), an animated tale based between AOTC and ROTS. It is darker than the films (and better imo) and shows Sidious' contempt for others; Dooku is dignified, wise and dangerous and Grievous is seriously badass, fully-deserving of the tag "jedi killer" (and voiced by billy west aka philip j fry.) Dooku training Grievous is my particular favourite!
    Such a shame that Lucas then took a steaming sh*t on the fine work done but that's par for course with him.


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