Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Mickeroo

bennyl10 wrote: »

^ this is a very fair point.

Also the movie is out, spoiler tags shouldn't be overly necessary anymore..

Surely thread carefully should be the prevailing thought..

As has been the case for about a decade the mods will edit the thread title when it's ok to stop using spoiler tags. Some people like to read the reactions of their fellow boardsies when a film comes out even if they haven't had a chance to see it yet and this one hasn't even been out for 12 hours yet.....

I'm not a mod here btw, that's just the way this forum has always worked!

Tony EH

bennyl10 wrote: »

Also the movie is out, spoiler tags shouldn't be overly necessary anymore..

It's been out a day and the majority of us haven't seen it, but would like to judge some reactions without the whole plot being given away.

So yes the tags are necessary.

uck51js9zml2yt

Mickeroo wrote: »

As has been the case for about a decade the mods will edit the thread title when it's ok to stop using spoiler tags. Some people like to read the reactions of their fellow boardsies when a film comes out even if they haven't had a chance to see it yet and this one hasn't even been out for 12 hours yet.....

I'm not a mod here btw, that's just the way this forum has always worked!

I think 2 threads are needed. One for discussion of those who've seen it. Has happened in the past iirc.

johnny_ultimate

Mod note: Folks, the film has been out for less than 12 hours. Please keep to the spoiler tags until more people have gotten to see it. We'll add an overall spoiler warning in a few days. We're generally against splitting discussion off across multiple threads because it splits the debate, so if you could stick with tags for a little bit longer it'd be appreciated.

Additionally, please keep it civil. Regardless of how strong your opinion is, no need to be hostile about it.

homerun_homer

Maia Breezy Headphones wrote: »

I think 2 threads are needed. One for discussion of those who've seen it. Has happened in the past iirc.

Or people who have seen it adhere to the rules and use spoiler tags until the mod declares it open season, and updates the thread title to say spoilers from post xxxx. Or.... if you've not seen the movie, avoid the thread. It's too risky now.

david75

homerun_homer wrote: »

After a real crap three hour sleep, I woke to feel worse. I'm seeing the film again tomorrow, I hope I enjoy it more but I've a bad feeling I won't. We'll see.

Forgot to mention in my original post that I hated that

they turned the amazing Skellig Michael final shot in TFA into a joke as soon as they return to that moment. I know Luke is cynical and recluse for his reasons but throwing away the lightsabre and walking off for added humour was a mis-step. I also hated Luke calling it a "laser sword" later in conversation. Feck sake.

And what the f*ck with him milking the alien and drinking like a freak in front of Rey? I want a cut of this movie with this bit and Leia in space removed before I can begin to think about liking the film more.

It near broke me replying to me nephew who texted me before school to ask what I thought of it.

Lazer sword was a nod to George. He always wrote them as lazer swords and still refers to them thusly. It was also a bit of self referential humour. Star Wars laughing at itself the way it’s detractors do. Space wizards with laser swords.

david75

IT left everyone I was with confused until I explained it so it’s not a spoiler to let people know, the golden dice you see? (Twice)

They’re Hans. From the cockpit of the falcon.

They for some reason cut the scene in TFA when you see him back in the cockpit the first time and he hangs them up. But they’re in the OT if you look hard.

McDermotX

From initial first viewing yesterday

, but also :mad:, with some , and then some

Bit of a mixed reaction to this one I have say.....which might not please everyone a bit let down by TFA.
Always hard to be subjective with Star Wars films, as I always want and find stuff to love, and tend to let a lot of the weaknesses slip by, but FWIW, I think it's safe to take all those one line 'spectacular' and 'amazing' reviews with massive doses of salt.
Haven't bothered reading any of the 'proper' reviews, but will take a pop at them over the next few days - I would hope and suspect they may be a more mixed evaluation of the film as a whole.
Quite hard to go into it without going into spoiler territory - but it's quite a simplistic plot which takes a number of wrong turns in order to flesh out things, all the while making you impatient at times to go back to certain story threads. Some elements show a break away from traditional 'Star Wars' tropes, which can be welcome, but ultimately this is a universe more in line with TFA than some companion to TESB.

Positives - Space battle sequences, Luke (for the most part), Rey and Kylo (Driver was particularly good), Crait planet design, Snoke's ship, the good visual effects bits
Negatives - too much humour (not solely down to the Porgs BTW), lack of gravitas, lazy narrative threads don't just don't come together (Casino planet), underwhelming plot, the poor visual effects bits

While not the remake that TFA tended (perhaps needed) to be, it will still echo a lot of moments from Empire and Jedi for viewers IMO, which is probably not that much of a surprise (or a downside I might add) given the somewhat cyclical nature of things in Star Wars.
Don't want to appear to focus on the underwhelming parts as it's still ****ing Star Wars, but it probably shines in moments as opposed to overall.
Decent 7/10 on first viewing

JohnFalstaff

Having enjoyed The Force Awakens and, to a lesser extent, Rogue One, I was underwhelmed by The Last Jedi. It's a structurally weak story with some good moments, but many of these were marred by the need to insert a gag for comedy relief. Visually it's great - some of the best cinematography, editing, and production design in the entire series.

Most of my issues have to do with the basic stuff - storyline and characters. Too many characters ended up doing things because the writers wanted them to, so they could move on to the next planet/set-piece, not because of proper motivations.

The writers don't know what to do with Finn, one of my favourite characters from The Force Awakens, so send him off on a pointless mission. The chemistry between Finn and Rey is sorely lacking this time round, keeping them separated for the entire film was a misstep. John Boyega really brings this world alive, as does Daisy Ridley. Both of them buy into the story they are telling, in a way that some of the other cast don't. The entire arc between Finn and Captain Phasma was a letdown. Gwendoline Christie's a terrific actress, they could have done so much more with her character.

I think the new films are suffering from having to cram too much in to them. The writers have introduced a raft of new characters that need to be developed, but they also have to satisfy audience and story demands relating to the characters from the original trilogy. Hammill and Fisher looked to be going through the motions a couple of times, but overall Hamill was great.

Kelly Marie Tran's character felt like an unnecessary addition inserted to appeal to Asian markets.

Unfortunately for Domhnall Gleeson, his General Hux has been entirely reduced to a pantomime villain. They even felt it necessary to explain his incompetence with a line in the script.

Drumpot

Just waking up and going again around 5.

My initial feelings are now

- too long (side stories we didn’t need)
- Kylo and Rey superb (absolutely loved Kylo ark)
- Luke - Hmmm - not sure I know I feel about luke. Now I know why Hamill said what he said about his feelings on the character. But “everything that was just said there was wrong”!
- surprises? If there were any I was too tired to enjoy
- I’m not chomping at the bit to see this again but with Star Wars I want it to work so hope a second viewing will be more enjoyable.

Did anybody spot the books at the end? I missed that but my friend saw it!

gct

Loved it! Great film! I wouldn't normally go to a midnight cinema show (a bit star wars geek for me) but I'm glad I did. We first see Luke at the point where we left off at TFA. What he did next made me lol. I loved the humour throughout the film. It was a real rollercoaster with lots of action. There are 3 or 4 stories running simultaneously, the battle and fight scenes are cool with lots of twists and turns and a lot of stuff that I did not expect to happen. Adam Driver was EXCELLENT! His bad guy is now as villainous as Darth Vader (is that blasphemy?).
I liked the ending although its hard to guess what will happen in the next instalment.
I even loved the cheesy scene at the end with the little boy.
Highly recommended.

Sin City

I can see why Mark Hamill was giving out about the writing of Luke

Really didnt like the way Luke turned away from the force or trying to burn down the force tree. More of a cranky old man rather than a Jedi ,master

Mixed feelings that he pushed Ben to the dark side too

Still massively underwhelmed by Snokes demise too

In saying all these negatives I did however enjoy the movie
Visually spectacular

david75

The Hux thing was also transparent commentary.

He’s a Nazi leader giving big speeches at a hate rally in TFA. Days later in TLJ he’s exposed as a whiny little spineless b!tch

johnny_ultimate

I don't think the casino stuff always works by any stretch - the

CG alien feeding BB8 coins

is pure 'deleted scenes' fodder if ever there was any - but generally I really appreciated what it did. It adds colour & depth to the universe, and more importantly is surprisingly well integrated with some of the narrative's broader concerns. The film is frequently curious about exploring the shades of grey present in characters and their fantastical philosophies,

and thus presenting this apparently vibrant place only to 'look closer' and reveal the darker corners works well. A later punchline also implicates the Resistance in some of the unpleasantness - (star) war, as they say, is hell, and it's nice to see some of what's happening away from the frontlines. It's not subtle, but I don't come to Star Wars for subtlety

. Helps that Boyega and Tran are a likable pair.

Not to mention it pays off

in that final scene before credits. It'd be easy to cut away on the remaining Resistance members celebrating their fleeting victory & escape, but Star Wars in its main incarnation has always been ideas of legacy and myth-making. Finishing up by showing a new hope, the neglected kids inspired by their heroes, feels fitting in that sense.

david75

The entire Finn and rose storyline on that planet drags the whole film down. It’s utterly pointless adds nothing and doesn’t even serve the story. Total waste of time.
Time that could have been better spent on just about anything else.

johnny_ultimate

david75 wrote: »

It’s utterly pointless adds nothing and doesn’t even serve the story.

It's one thing not liking the subplot, or thinking it drags down the pace - perfectly fair criticisms. But as I suggested above, it's IMO not pointless and does significantly contribute to what Johnson is exploring in the story. I mean:

he opted to end the film with an explicit callback to the events on the casino planet. Making the IMO safe assumption he had a pretty solid grasp of the story he was trying to tell, the fact that he uses it as the film's punctuation mark - forcibly cutting away from the protagonists to do so, when he has a perfectly good final shot as the heroes gather on the Falcon - very much suggests to me he wanted to emphasise it for a reason

DrWu

I'm really shocked at the negative feedback from fans. I'd love to know what people were expecting from the movie and where they would have preferred it to go. I loved it and can't wait to see it again this weekend.

Saruhashi

Would it be fair to say that TFA and TLJ were created with the success of the Marvel Comics movies in mind?

I feel like a lot of the humor etc is very much in the style of what we would see in the Marvel films.

My main take-away from episodes 7 & 8 is that they have tried to inject a lot more humor than we ever saw in the previous 6.

I also feel that post 2019 we'll be saying that the prequel trilogy was awful, the sequel trilogy was just OK and the originals are still the best.

It'll be SO weird for anyone watching all 12 back to back as they lurch between all the different styles and "takes" on the Star Wars Universe.

Once we add in the Star Wars Anthology movies (Rogue One, Solo, Kenobi) I wonder what the Star Wars cinematic universe will look like.

I'm actually pondering right now if The Last Jedi is actually my least liked Star Wars film. The prequels were bad but at least the represented Lucas' creative vision. This movie feels like a total mess and maybe even a basic misunderstanding of what Star Wars is about.

Will it stand the test of time or will the jokes be annoying on the 3rd or 4th (or more) viewings down through the years?

SharpshooterTom

Early days but TLJ is still hanging around at 8.3 with imdb.

david75

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It's one thing not liking the subplot, or thinking it drags down the pace - perfectly fair criticisms. But as I suggested above, it's IMO not pointless and does significantly contribute to what Johnson is exploring in the story. I mean:

he opted to end the film with an explicit callback to the events on the casino planet. Making the IMO safe assumption he had a pretty solid grasp of the story he was trying to tell, the fact that he uses it as the film's punctuation mark - forcibly cutting away from the protagonists to do so, when he has a perfectly good final shot as the heroes gather on the Falcon - very much suggests to me he wanted to emphasise it for a reason

THe reason possibly being that little kid with the brush might well be the focus of the new trilogy he’s overseeing.

py2006

Completely different tone and feel to TFA, I think I was mistaken watching TFA just before heading to cinema last night. I don't think they blend together seamlessly.

Saruhashi

DrWu wrote: »

I'm really shocked at the negative feedback from fans. I'd love to know what people were expecting from the movie and where they would have preferred it to go. I loved it and can't wait to see it again this weekend.

I don't know what I expected, tbh.

I think a lot of the moments in the movie felt out of place. Like not part of the Star Wars universe.

It seemed like a spoof of a Star Wars movie. Like a Star Wars movie that was maybe a little too self aware? A lot of the dialogue felt like it was winking at the audience TOO obviously and there were 2 or 3 moments that seemed like ridiculous exposition dumps.

A lot of movies would be panned for these things. Too much exposition. Too much on the nose political commentary. Tonal shifts where the film seems to lurch from one tone to the next, sometimes even in the same scene. Side plots that take us away from the more interesting main plot and don't really do much for the film. I don't "get" how this is a 85/100 movie. It seemed more like a 5 or 6 to me. So many things that just didn't work.

I cringed a lot and I actually felt it was embarrassing at points. I don't even think I'd need to post spoilers as if you've seen the movie you'd know which parts were real "WTF?" moments even if you loved or hated them. I kind of hated them.

The only think I knew about it going in was that I liked TFA, ANH and ESB in that order (with ESB being the best), I am ok with RotJ and I am not a fan of the prequel story. I think the back to back stories of A New Hope and Empire is the best segment of the 8 episodes so far.

I also knew this one had an 85 rating on Metacritic and, as I am sure you can tell, I am really stuck on that.

Please don't take this as confrontational or looking for an argument but can you elucidate exactly how you loved the movie without giving spoilers?

Was it just viscerally satisfying? Did it seem to have some deep connection to Star Wars as a whole? Did it move the story forward much and add to the Star Wars mythos or is it more of a "standalone" episode?

david75

py2006 wrote: »

Completely different tone and feel to TFA, I think I was mistaken watching TFA just before heading to cinema last night. I don't think they blend together seamlessly.

Well tonally Empire is utterly different than a new hope.
This is similar to that.

The confused shock and awe WTF reaction to TLJ is echoing exactly the reaction Empire got upon its release.


So maybe there’s hope in a few years once we have the final episode we can recontextualise it and hopefully see it as wonderful.

I love in hope. Right now I’m reeling from it.

david75

Just to add to that this film is in a different galaxy altogether than empire strikes back. They bare no relation to each other in any meaningful way whatsoever.
And that’s great at least.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

I hated this last night after seeing it and I hate it even more now as things are coming back to me.

Luke milking the sea cow and drinking the milk followed by an elaborate spear fishing scene is just Phantom Menace levels of SHYYYTE.

homerun_homer

Anyone worry that

all this force projection business is dangerous territory to introduce into the movies and can lead to terrible plot twists or Deus Ex Machinas in future films?

Saruhashi

homerun_homer wrote: »

Anyone worry that

all this force projection business is dangerous territory to introduce into the movies and can lead to terrible plot twists or Deus Ex Machinas in future films?

On a similar note, if a ship can now ram another ship at light-speed and annihilate it then why didn't the First Order just pop a droid in a massive ship and fire it into the Resistance fleet? Why use rockets and torpedoes at all against massive ships that take hundreds of hits to bring down when you can just build a
giant metal brick with a hyperdrive engine and aim it at whatever you want to blow up? Also if you must insist on doing that scene then it should have been Admiral Ackbars last hurrah and not some nobody we just met and learned nothing about over the 2 hours or so.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

On a similar note, if a ship can now ram another ship at light-speed and annihilate it then why didn't the First Order just pop a droid in a massive ship and fire it into the Resistance fleet? Why use rockets and torpedoes at all against massive ships that take hundreds of hits to bring down when you can just build a
giant metal brick with a hyperdrive engine and aim it at whatever you want to blow up? Also if you must insist on doing that scene then it should have been Admiral Ackbars last hurrah and not some nobody we just met and learned nothing about over the 2 hours or so.

I think you missed the point there. She was sacrificing herself. The rest is just nit picking.

gct

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I hated this last night after seeing it and I hate it even more now as things are coming back to me.

Luke milking the sea cow and drinking the milk followed by an elaborate spear fishing scene is just Phantom Menace levels of SHYYYTE.

Luke had been in solitude for God knows how many years and I think the director was trying to show
that Luke had gone a little bit La-La like Yoda in Empire strikes back.

david75

homerun_homer wrote: »

Anyone worry that

all this force projection business is dangerous territory to introduce into the movies and can lead to terrible plot twists or Deus Ex Machinas in future films?

It’s nit ‘just’ bing infroudcued to the movies. It was always there. Palpating did exactly the same to Anakin in the prequels to put visions and bad dreams in his head.
Luke reaches out to Leia in Empire. And Vader contacts him too.
They absolutely needed to show new force abilities. It’s alwyas just been Jedi can move stuff. End.

It was time to show more.