Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

That's not really true.

It is true Tony. among fans and critics. it had nothing like the repeat business ANH did and critics panned it as a murky load of mystic waffle that doesnt actually have an ending.

on original releases it is* the lowest earning of all SW movies, prequels included.

Drumpot

Thinking about the

Leia scene in space. If you think about it, she has force abilities. She
obviously never became a Jedi but learned some skills. Its kind of cool that she
doesn't fight but has some sort of Jedi ability because there is no Jedi order,
no training and no real order to the force on that side of things. As such, her
being able to do what she does is ok.

It felt cringey on first watch, but its actually a nice unknown Ark for the character if you think about it.
I am going to try and focus on the positive and be forgiving on the negatives. I will see the movie again in 2 hours and want to enjoy it.

Its clear some people are desperately disappointed but I was more tired then anything.

Luke died and by that stage I just wanted to get to bed. I felt nothing for that
moment (certainly not like when Han was killed) and I am not sure it was because
of how it played out or because I was shattered.

Some of the funny moments were hit and miss but again I am not sure if I was just exhausted and "grumpy" as somebody said. I really don't think the midnight shows suit me!

branie2

There must be people here who really enjoyed it. I hope to when I see it tomorrow.

Saruhashi

murpho999 wrote: »

I really can't believe all the negative posters in here and don't believe it's as bad as people are saying considering how well it's being reviewed.

I think some people should not go to midnight showings as it makes them kranky.

I think you'd have to judge for yourself.

I'm not trying to convince anyone it's a bad movie.

Actually, I feel like I'm really trying to reconcile the fact that I genuinely disliked it, the more I think about it the more I dislike it, and the fact that the reviews are so good.

Specifically trying to think of things that are obvious flaws like too much exposition, on the nose political commentary, tonal shifts where the film seems to lurch from one tone to the next (sometimes even in the same scene) and side plots that take us away from the more interesting main plot (and don't really do much for the film).

Maybe "the originals had all these problems too" could be seen as a defense for the new movies but I don't feel like it's valid.

Jokes that don't "land" are a subjective thing and scenes that feel "off" in terms visuals and plot are the same. So I am OK if someone loved a particular element that made me cringe a bit. Some folks like pineapple on pizza.

I don't hate the film and I'm not mad that I didn't enjoy it. I don't feel entitled to a good Star Wars movie tailored to my specific tastes but I do feel entitled to an opinion on the film.

In my opinion this one isn't good and that's based on a combination of the flaws I felt were present and the subjective elements that just felt unappealing to me. I don't think there's much more I can say until spoilers are fully allowed.

Drumpot

david75 wrote: »

It is true Tony. among fans and critics. it had nothing like the repeat business ANH did and critics panned it as a murky load of mystic waffle that doesnt actually have an ending.

on original releases it is* the lowest earning of all SW movies, prequels included.

Yeh, I would not equate box office success with quality of movie. If that was the case, Michael Bay would be a name nobody would know!

I think a point made (that perhaps Ep9 will enhance this on reflection) might be the case.

johnny_ultimate

branie2 wrote: »

There must be people here who really enjoyed it. I hope to when I see it tomorrow.

I enjoyed the heck out of it - sometimes in spite of and sometimes because of its goofiness, weirdness and meandering nature. I mean there's plenty of moments and sequences that didn't work for me at all, but it's the grandest, most distinctive, and best directed (this cannot be neglected - Johnson directs the **** out of it) take on Star Wars yet: loyal to the series while being its own (corporate-sanctioned) crazy thing. That's not saying it's the 'best Star Wars yet' necessarily (it is up there), but it's amped up to 11 for sure.

david75

Drumpot wrote: »

Yeh, I would not equate box office success with quality of movie. If that was the case, Michael Bay would be a name nobody would know!

I think a point made (that perhaps Ep9 will enhance this on reflection) might be the case.

its well documnted ESB wasnt anything like as well received as ANH though..its a feature of every SW book written on it..shall i go find you some reviews?

nuttyboy79

I've been thinking about this all day and the more I look back on it the more I enjoyed it the meh bits were very meh but were a good way to get all the strands in place by end of the movie , the awesome bits were very awesome, the new main characters Rey, Po, Kylo, BB8 and Finn were great, the old ones were great too ,Kylo being the stand out for me I didn't like him much in TFA. The comedy while some will find it forced and unnecessary I loved. Overall a great Star Wars film but Empire is still the best one of them all.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

It is true Tony. among fans and critics. it had nothing like the repeat business ANH did and critics panned it as a murky load of mystic waffle that doesnt actually have an ending.

on original releases it is* the lowest earning of all SW movies, prequels included.

No, it's not David.

The open ended nature of the film left some feeling a bit lost and some reviewers felt it wasn't as fresh as 'Star Wars'. Other reviewers who didn't like it also didn't like the 1977 film either. But on the whole it was relatively well received. Many reviews felt that it was a good sequel that was obviously going to be followed by another entry.

It certainly wasn't "loathed".

And BO take doesn't mean shit.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

No, it's not David.

The open ended nature of the film left some feeling a bit lost and some reviewers felt it wasn't as fresh as 'Star Wars'. Other reviewers who didn't like it also didn't like the 1977 film either. But on the whole it was relatively well received. Many reviews felt that it was a good sequel that was obviously going to be followed by another entry.

It certainly wasn't "loathed".

And BO take doesn't mean shit.

youve read a very different bunch of star wars history books than i have.
so BO doesnt matter in this case but it does when youre alleging money is all disney care about? pick one
semantics aside, i can see TLJ taking a hit money wise..not sure people will go back for a second viewing in SW numbers like we saw R1 and TFA had

JohnFalstaff

david75 wrote: »

its well documnted ESB wasnt anything like as well received as ANH though..its a feature of every SW book written on it..shall i go find you some reviews?

Empire was not as critically panned as you might like to think.

There's a fairly comprehensive rundown of contemporary reviews here:
http://www.starwars.com/news/critical-opinion-the-empire-strikes-back-original-reviews

Quote: "The Empire Strikes Back covered the spectrum of critical opinion back in the early ’80s, from deep disdain to casual indifference, from mild appreciation to high praise."

Pauline Kael in particular had a lot of time for the film.

david75

havent seen one complaint about the porgs theyre used well and just enough, not too much at all

chewie eating the roast porg and his family standing there crying was brilliant ...the shot with four or five of them in the falcons cockpit and the little one is tearing the fabric on the chair and the other ones got a metal tool round its hgead was mad funny poor chewie overrun with them..

chrislad

I enjoyed it. Certainly, there were faults, and at times it felt like they deliberately went a different way than expected. The whole Resistance side story was a bit like this Austin Powers scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdctnPIR5kA

But overall, a solid follow up for me. I don't want to go into too much else until there's been enough time from release.

david75

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

Empire was not as critically panned as you might like to think.

There's a fairly comprehensive rundown of contemporary reviews here:
http://www.starwars.com/news/critical-opinion-the-empire-strikes-back-original-reviews

Quote: "The Empire Strikes Back covered the spectrum of critical opinion back in the early ’80s, from deep disdain to casual indifference, from mild appreciation to high praise."

Pauline Kael in particular had a lot of time for the film.

its the bad reviews that stuck with people though..it wasnt loved among the general public or even fanbase at all.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

youve read a very different bunch of star wars history books than i have.

No, I've read the reviews and I was alive then. 'The Empire Strikes Back' was THE film to see in the summer of 1980 - although I didn't get to see it in the cinema myself.

Reactions were not "loathing" or "dismissal" in the main. It was largely well received, even if it wasn't being hailed as the greatest film of the series (revealed to be 9 films by Lucas) back then.

Sure, there were some bad reviews. But then, there are always bad reviews for film of this type. I'd wager that the bad reviews were written by people who didn't care for 'Star Wars' either, which also wasn't universally well talked about.

david75 wrote: »

so BO doesnt matter in this case but it does when youre alleging money is all disney care about? pick one

This sentence doesn't make sense.

Box office is no gauge of a quality film.

Besides, BO take for most of the hollywood product was down in 1980. It was generally a poor time for cinema as a whole.

Disney are largely concerned about making money on the back of a franchise they paid billions for.

There's no need to pick "one".

david75 wrote: »

semantics aside, i can see TLJ taking a hit money wise..not sure people will go back for a second viewing in SW numbers like we saw R1 and TFA had

Judging by some of the reactions I've seen on the web, I think there may be a lot of reevaluation going on about Star Wars in general and where this sequel trilogy, and the whole thing, is going.

david75

the big main role Positives
Hamill brings it. It's exactly how a broken man would be and he portrays it perfectly and has a brilliant chemistry in his arc with Rey and his reluctance to take part in it all.

Snoke was just pure badass..flawless CGI and incredibly good performance from Serkis

Driver nails Kylo..in his darker moments and his lighter moreso when you see his true self coming through

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

No, I've read the reviews and I was alive then. 'The Empire Strikes Back' was THE film to see in the summer of 1980 - although I didn't get to see it in the cinema myself.

Reactions were not "loathing" or "dismissal" in the main. It was largely well received, even if it wasn't being hailed as the greatest film of the series (revealed to be 9 films by Lucas) back then.

Sure, there were some bad reviews. But then, there are always bad reviews for film of this type. I'd wager that the bad reviews were written by people who didn't care for 'Star Wars' either, which also wasn't universally well talked about.



This sentence doesn't make sense.

Box office is no gauge of a quality film.

Besides, BO take for most of the hollywood product was down in 1980. It was generally a poor time for cinema as a whole.

Disney are largely concerned about making money on the back of a franchise they paid billions for.

There's no need to pick "one".



Judging by some of the reactions I've seen on the web, I think there may be a lot of reevaluation going on about Star Wars in general and where this sequel trilogy, and the whole thing, is going.

man youre gonna hate this film.

murpho999

Tony EH wrote: »

No, it's not David.

The open ended nature of the film left some feeling a bit lost and some reviewers felt it wasn't as fresh as 'Star Wars'. Other reviewers who didn't like it also didn't like the 1977 film either. But on the whole it was relatively well received. Many reviews felt that it was a good sequel that was obviously going to be followed by another entry.

It certainly wasn't "loathed".

And BO take doesn't mean shit.

Link about original TESB reviews

Agent Coulson

Enjoyable but it felt in places like they let Lucas write the script and it had some awful attempts at comedy as well.


Overall I was disappointed.


Empire still rules as the best of the bunch.

mloc123

Disappointing... I went to see it at 9am this morning (too old for midnight).

I feel deflated after it... not terrible, not great.. just okay. The final 20-30 mins saved it somewhat.

david75

murpho999 wrote: »

Link about original TESB reviews

ouch..* hang on..is that on starwars.com??

PTH2009

7/10 enjoyed it thought the time went really fast. Im not really familar with the whole star wars story but getting the hang of it now

Is Luke Dead ???? Is he hautning Kylo Ren ???.

Dissapointing reveal for Reys Parents but is that the real truth and they will reveal it in the next movie ???

Could they bring Vadar back, surly they could make another one of his suits ???

How will they put Leia into the next movie, would it be better if they killed her off ???. Is Yoda coming back a one time deal ???

0ph0rce0

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Enjoyable but it felt in places like they let Lucas write the script and it had some awful attempts at comedy as well.


Overall I was disappointed.


Empire still rules as the best of the bunch.

Why do all movies now days always try add that ****e comedy part and one liners when it's not needed?

No matter the genre you'll see it in there somewhere.

Going tonight can't wait.

david75

PTH2009 wrote: »

7/10 enjoyed it thought the time went really fast. Im not really familar with the whole star wars story but getting the hang of it now

Is Luke Dead ???? Is he hautning Kylo Ren ???.

Dissapointing reveal for Reys Parents but is that the real truth and they will reveal it in the next movie ???

Could they bring Vadar back, surly they could make another one of his suits ???

How will they put Leia into the next movie, would it be better if they killed her off ???. Is Yoda coming back a one time deal ???

yes luke is dead. you see him dissolve into the force on his meditation rock..and rey says luke is gone.

i doubt thats the real truth of reys parents but who knows?

did you see return of the jedi? vader was anakin skywalker,
luke and leias father..he died saving luke. vader is no more.

nobody knows how theyre gonna have leia in the next one...Luke and yoda both could reappear as force ghosts

Agent Coulson

Also

Snoke

was absolutely terrible and in no way a

Big Bad or frightening

The amount of marketing of toys in it that play no part in the film only to advertise them as toys for sale was just crazy.

wingnut32

I read a few of the reviews in here today and coupled with the fact I thought TFA was kind of Meh ( thought rouge one was a much better film) I really didnt have high hopes for this.

Glad to say I really really enjoyed it! I can see where people might have a few gripes but I genuinely enjoyed everything about it.

Best one of outside the OT for me.

Shakey_jake

Haven't seen it yet but im surprised by some of the reactions, like wow

Surely mega star wars geek Rian Johnson can't have messed this up, no way man!

ROTJ is my favourite so have a feeling reading some of the comments that it might be for me, here's hoping!

Tony EH

murpho999 wrote: »

Link about original TESB reviews

They're not full reviews. They're critical sections of reviews. And seriously, the likes of Vincent Canby is never going to call any Star Wars film brilliant.

For instance the Kael quote on that site is terribly misleading:

There is no sense that this ebullient, youthful saga is running thin in imagination or that it has begun to depend excessively in its marvelous special effects — that it is in any danger, in short, of stiffening into mannerism or mere billion-dollar style.

Pauline Kael also had this to say about the film:

By far the most imaginative part of the STAR WARS trilogy. This middle, bridging film is chained to an unresolved plot and doesn't have the leaping comic-book hedonism of the 1977 STAR WARS, but you can feel the love of movie magic that went into its cascading imagery. George Lucas kept the first movie hopping by cutting it into short, choppy scenes; Irvin Kershner, who directed this one, is a master of visual flow, and, joining his own kinks and obsessions to Lucas's, he gave EMPIRE a splendiferousness that may even have transcended what Lucas had in mind. When Han Solo (Harrison Ford) is frozen into sculpture-his face protruding from a bas-relief, the mouth open as if calling out in pain-the scene has a terrifying grandeur. The characters in this fairy-tale cliff-hanger show more depth of feeling than they had in the first film, and the music-John Williams' variations on the STAR WARS theme-seems to saturate and enrich the intensely clear images. Scenes linger in the mind: the light playing on Darth Vader's gleaming surfaces as this metal man, who's like a giant armored insect, fills the screen; Han Solo saving Luke's life on the ice planet Hoth by slashing open a snow camel and warming him inside; Luke's hand being lopped off, and his seemingly endless fall through space; Chewbacca, the Wookie, yowling in grief or in comic fear, his sounds so hyper-human you couldn't help laughing at them; the big-eared green elf Yoda, with shining ancient eyes, who pontifically instructs Luke in how to grow up wise-Yoda looks like a wonton and talks like a fortune cookie. With Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, Billy Dee Williams, and Alec Guinness.

Not what one would call a bad review.

However, do a search for The Empire Strikes Back review 1980 and read the full texts of the reviews from around the globe. They are hardly loathing and dismissive about the film.

Just because there's some critical elements within reviews, it doesn't mean that the reviewer hated the film.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

man youre gonna hate this film.

Maybe.

It's not sounding too good.

titan18

I'm just back from it and read the opinions since last night, and I think some of ye are very nitpicky. It's not great by any means but it's a solid 7/8 out of 10. As for those who went to see it at midnight said they didn't like it as they were tired and need to rewatch. How about just not going at midnight or when you're tired next time, and try to enjoy it properly the first time.

Few weak moments in it, but it's overall a strong film imo.