Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

FunLover18

david75 wrote:

It's the skywalker story. That's the point. First line in the crawl is 'Luke skywalker has vanished!' So they're still following that line. A story needs a through line and central focus. They're obviously continuing that.

It's called Star Wars, not Skwalker Wars. Wars tend to affect more than one family.

david75

First trilogy was about Anakin and his fall to the dark side and becoming Vader.
Second trilogy was about Luke being shown his destiny as a Jedi and discovering he's anakins son and having to face his father and try redeem him.

Third trilogy sees Rey going to find Luke and remind him of his duties as Jedi...now I wonder where that could go outside him being her father??

Mickeroo

david75 wrote: »

It's the skywalker story. That's the point. First line in the crawl is 'Luke skywalker has vanished!' So they're still following that line. A story needs a through line and central focus. They're obviously continuing that.

I would have thought Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Princess Leia, C3PO and R2D2 actually being in the film and the main antagonist being Darth Vader's grandson is enough to link the new films to the old ones without having Rey be another Skywalker. I loved TFA but I hope enough old ground has been re-tread at this stage.

david75

The whole point of the story was everyone trying to find Luke. You really think the second act will just jump off onto something unrelated? And it's not old ground. He's the axel of this whole chapter and Rey is the engine. We're going to see him die if not in 8 then in 9. At either Kylos hands or maybe even Reys.
Keep in my mind the first subtitle of all of this was the adventures of Luke Starkiller. Luke was always the draw. And remains so.

Mickeroo

david75 wrote: »

The whole point of the story was everyone trying to find Luke. You really think the second act will just jump off onto something unrelated? And it's not old ground. He's the axel of this whole chapter and Rey is the engine. We're going to see him die if not in 8 then in 9. At either Kylos hands or maybe even Reys.
Keep in my mind the first subtitle of all of this was the adventures of Luke Starkiller. Luke was always the draw. And remains so.

How would him not being her father cause the story to jump off into something unrelated to what happened in TFA? Having an "I am your father..." type revelation in the second film of the new trilogy is very much re-treading old ground. She probably is his daughter but I don't think it's necessary from a story point of view at the moment, I don't even think we have to find out who her parents are full stop for her character to work though they probably won't go down that route now since it's all the internet are talking about.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

The whole point of the story was everyone trying to find Luke. You really think the second act will just jump off onto something unrelated? And it's not old ground. He's the axel of this whole chapter and Rey is the engine. We're going to see him die if not in 8 then in 9. At either Kylos hands or maybe even Reys.
Keep in my mind the first subtitle of all of this was the adventures of Luke Starkiller. Luke was always the draw. And remains so.

Yes.

But Rey not being related to him or anyone else from the previous films wouldn't affect any of that and actually add something to the series in the shape of new independent characters.

In fact, the more efforts the producers go through to "link" everybody, the lesser the series becomes.

Vader built C3P0.

He and Kenobi knew both golden rod and R2 just 20 years before 'Star Wars'.

Owen Lars knew C3P0.

Boba Fett's dad is the "father" of all the clones and subsequently Stormtroopers (or at least some of them).

Kylo Ren is Han and Leia's kid.

Rey is Luke's kid (more than likely)

It's bloody awful and completely unnecessary. It's like a stupid child wrote it.

I read somewhere a line that is bang on:

"It's like going upstairs to your room and finding your kid sister or cousin playing with your Star Wars men, and now Zuckuss and 2-1B are married and they adopted an AT-AT Driver."

OwaynOTT

Most of European history involved one of two families that were closely related to each other. Medieval Europe and early modern Europe, would have been as vast for them as the universe in Star Wars is to the Skywalkers, kenobis and Solos families.

So it's not necessarily childish, there is historical precedent for it.

dreamers75

Lucas reckons the entire story is seen tru the eyes of R2D2, which actually makes perfect sense.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/george-lucas-wild-theory-about-the-narrator-of-star-war-1772296162

Tony EH

European history (which is actually a quite complex series of affairs) can be limited to a mere continent on a single planet, even if it still retains it complexity.

Star Wars takes place in a GALAXY consisting of many planets and many, many people.

Having everything connected, where there really shouldn't be ANY connection is just plain bad writing.

Really...did Darth Vader HAVE to build C3P0?

Really?

I think not.

Wedwood

Lucas mentioned in the 70's that R2D2 and C3PO were going to be the constants through the whole saga with the story seen from their view. He took the idea from Kurosawa's samurai movies, where the epic battles were seen from the view of two simple peasant farmers who get caught up in the action.

Much of Star Wars is taken from those Kurosawa movies, such as the Jedi Knights subbing for samurai warriors, the Force subbing for the samurai Zen/Buddhism/Martial Arts. Even Darth Vader's costume is reminiscent of a samurai warrior.

Tony EH

Yes, but in the 70's the first film was 'Star Wars' and it was always supposed to be, despite Lucas' bullshit. It was only later, after the unprecedented success of that film that 'Star Wars' became bastardised as "episode IV A New Hope". But that film was originally the first film of a series of films.

Lucas has merely retconned the entire series as he saw fit. Unfortunately, by doing so he's diluted the series down to a ridiculous level. If one chooses to view the prequels as canon, of course. Star Wars can work perfectly well (and much, much better) without them.

Look, C3P0, R2D2, Chewbacca or even Boba Fett simply shouldn't have been in the prequels. Not that that would have saved them by any means, of course. But, by putting them in there, it actively fucks up the original trilogy to an absurd, and wholly unnecessary, degree.

Watching them back to back makes for a terrible, terrible story that's full of the most basic plot holes, that even a 10 year old would frown at.

Falthyron

Star Wars is about the Skywalker family. A family that existed during a period of conflict in the universe and how they had a role to play in the events of those wars. Besides, Kathleen Kennedy confirmed that the new trilogy is about continuing the story of the Skywalker family.

"The Saga films focus on the Skywalker family saga," she explains. "The stories follow a linear narrative that connects to the previous six films. The Force Awakens follows Return of the Jedi and continues that generational story. The Anthology films offer opportunities to explore fresh characters, new storylines and a variety of genres inside the Star Wars universe."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-force-awakens-kathleen-828680

FunLover18

Falthyron wrote:

Star Wars is about the Skywalker family. A family that existed during a period of conflict in the universe and how they had a role to play in the events of those wars. Besides, Kathleen Kennedy confirmed that the new trilogy is about continuing the story of the Skywalker family.

That's disappointing, but Kylo Ren already fulfils that quota as Luke's nephew. Having Rey also be a Skywalker would be unnecessary.

py2006

FunLover18 wrote: »

That's disappointing, but Kylo Ren already fulfils that quota as Luke's nephew. Having Rey also be a Skywalker would be unnecessary.

There will be a twist there. Its too easy/obvious for her to simply be Lukes daughter.

Mickeroo

py2006 wrote: »

There will be a twist there. Its too easy/obvious for her to simply be Lukes daughter.

The identity of her parents might not be important at all, it could just be character building to facilitate a surrogate father daughter relationship between her and Luke (they were already kind of doing that with her and Han in TFA). Similar to Ripley and Newt in Aliens, we don't need to know anything about Ripley's daughter or Newt's parents other than the fact they aren't around anymore but it still forms the main character motivation behind how strong their relationship is (obviously it's a different situation but I think it's a good example of a common enough trope for surrogate type relationships in film).

faceman

I've no doubt that regardless of what Rey's lineage is, this trilogy will be about the redemption of Kylo Ren who is a Skywalker

.ak

FunLover18 wrote: »

It's called Star Wars, not Skwalker Wars. Wars tend to affect more than one family.

The 9 movies were always intended to follow the Skywalker saga. The skywalkers were the prophecy fulfillers.

FunLover18

.ak wrote: »

The 9 movies were always intended to follow the Skywalker saga. The skywalkers were the prophecy fulfillers.

Fair enough, I think it's been established at this point that the series does intend to follow the Skywalkers but I don't have to like it and it doesn't change the fact that narratively it is unnecessary. You could argue it adds drama what with families divided between sides but it's not the only way of creating drama. As mentioned, Kylo Ren is a Skywalker so he fulfills the quota in this new saga, not to mention Luke and Leia are still around. Rey turning out to be a Skywalker as well adds nothing.

Also, wasn't the prophecy only introduced in the prequels? Has it not been fulfilled yet?

.ak

Rey's background or parents will play a big part in the trilogy. Why else keep referencing it in TFA? For me her parents are imperials/bad guys. Why does she have a British accent? Why was she left with a scummy trash dealer? Then the story Will be about nobody is born with bad blood. I don't think we'll know until we see the movie. They kept the kylo ren thing under wraps very well, and everyone was convinced ren was luke. I haven't read the leaks but I've no doubt they're not genuine.

The other concept is she could Kylo's twin. Taking some inspiration from the books.

.ak

FunLover18 wrote: »

Fair enough, I think it's been established at this point that the series does intend to follow the Skywalkers but I don't have to like it and it doesn't change the fact that narratively it is unnecessary. You could argue it adds drama what with families divided between sides but it's not the only way of creating drama. As mentioned, Kylo Ren is a Skywalker so he fulfills the quota in this new saga, not to mention Luke and Leia are still around. Rey turning out to be a Skywalker as well adds nothing.

Also, wasn't the prophecy only introduced in the prequels? Has it not been fulfilled yet?

Yeah the prophecy was only introduced in the prequels. But it's one of the few things from the prequels that works. The idea was that anakin brought balance to the force by purging and cleansing all the force users, the Jedi order and the emperor.

However we see in TFA that was not the end of it, with skywalkers involved in the raise and fall of a new Jedi order. So the prophecy appears to be still in play.

Personally I'm excited to see where they take it.

david75

Where do you come from?

Bb8 beeps

Classified? Me too.


Big secret

BrookieD

With a massive grain of salt I read recently somewhere that Rey's background is.... will spoiler just in case

When Vader was killed he was reborn as Rey and in fact Luke mentions to Rey that She is his father, messed up huh! Luke has to battle inner demons to train Rey as she will bring balance to the force but may indeed goto the dark side again...

py2006

BrookieD wrote: »

With a massive grain of salt I read recently somewhere that Rey's background is.... will spoiler just in case

When Vader was killed he was reborn as Rey and in fact Luke mentions to Rey that She is his father, messed up huh! Luke has to battle inner demons to train Rey as she will bring balance to the force but may indeed goto the dark side again...

Heard that a few times recently. Sounds kinda meh! But it would explain expression on Lukes face on Skellig and I did notice Rey looking a bit ragey like I wanna kill you when dueling with Ren. Anger leads to hate etc...

homerun_homer

The rumours/leaked script twist that

Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin

has to be BS. This was floating around for months as a lengthy theory but I won't believe it until I see it unfolding on screen.


And I really hope that doesn't happen.

TerrorFirmer

That would rank up there with Anakin's conception as explained so biblically in The Phantom Menance.

I refuse to believe they would entertain even a whisper of something like that.

Red King

.ak wrote: »

They kept the kylo ren thing under wraps very well, and everyone was convinced ren was luke. I haven't read the leaks but I've no doubt they're not genuine.

The other concept is she could Kylo's twin. Taking some inspiration from the books.

Ok first off, it was abundantly clear to anyone paying attention weeks if not months in advance that there was no way that Luke was Kylo Ren for any number of reasons not least the massive difference in stature of the respective actors. And weeks in advance it was confirmed by Disney themselves that Ren was played by Adam Driver.

As for your second point, again you are not paying attention. Rey is 19 and Ren is ten years older and that is canon.

pixelburp

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

That would rank up there with Anakin's conception as explained so biblically in The Phantom Menance.

I refuse to believe they would entertain even a whisper of something like that.

I'm sure if we went back and reviewed all the various rumours & apparent 'leaks' that occurred prior to the release of Episode VII, we'd find a similar standard.

Episode VII went a long way in reestablishing some goodwill for Star Wars, paring its story back to basics & what worked in this franchise; I can't honestly see Disney squandering a reinvigorated fanbase with some needlessly convoluted, mythological plots. Say what you will about Disney, they know how to manufacture a good narrative that works.

johnny_ultimate

Yeah at this stage I really can't imagine Disney signing off on anything super wacky - I still think they're at the point where they know they can't **** up royally in order to help guarantee another decade or so of sequels and spin-offs.

Although I'd also suggest that in some cases something that comes across as silly on paper could be executed confidently on screen. Can you imagine how hard a sell some of the zanier ideas in the original Star Wars script were to communicate effectively to a studio executive? Sure, some bad ideas will be bad ideas regardless, and as the prequels show crappy dialogue can't be saved by good actors :pac: But it's that whole thing of a synopsis or an emotionless description not capturing the nuances of how something is ultimately directed, acted etc... Even in the extreme case that the leak is accurate - and, let's be honest, who the **** knows if it is or not - I'd give a talented director like Rian Johnson the time to at least see what he puts up on screen in 20 months time (even if I remain a weird mix of optimistic and pessimistic about what he'll be able to do with the confines of Disney's uber-franchise).

Tony EH

homerun_homer wrote: »

The rumours/leaked script twist that

Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin

has to be BS.

If they do that nonsense, then I'm done.

As far as I'm concerned Star Wars is a busted franchise, destroyed by the sheer mind numbing stupidity of the prequels. It's clawed back some respectability with 'The Force Awakens' and that film still left a lot to be desired. Frankly, there's an awful lot left to do to regain its former status and hokey baloney like the above will just tip a lot of people over.

And yes, I know Star Wars is full of hokey baloney as it is. But there's limits.

homerun_homer

It's not worth getting up in arms over the franchise over something that hasn't happened yet and more than likely won't happen. It's not that the twist is so out there, it's just not a good twist.