Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

Well somebody better tell the Russians that they missed Rogue One and The Force Awakens because they both have pretty fresh % ratings on RT from both critics and users.

When you consider how many times we heard "divisive" in the few days before the release of TLJ you don't think the divisive nature of the movie could have had an effect?

Nah. Must be Russians. Couldn't be that a movie people described as divisive is actually divisive. Russians.

both films released pre trump though..its not even tin foil hat to look at america and seeing the machine trying to close down net neutrality while russian bots are still active on that campaign and were present in the election there..

you dont like the film, we get it..can we go back to talking about it though without pulling metrics and utterly flawed data into it? using RT to back a point up is kinda hollow and can be played both ways. i did it a few posts back using data from RT to show how the films would be reviewed pre RT..

david75

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

This thread has taken an odd turn.

they're jukin the stats boss!!

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

not gonna lie i think there's probably something behind it across every single big film and western culture generally and it probably is some sort of interference from russia. There's simply too much of it and repeating to be a coincidence.

Please, could you and the people who liked your post take a quick look at the Review % and User % on RT for Wonder Woman, Thor Ragnarok, GotG 2 and Spiderman Homecoming and tell me that you honestly think these movies are being subjected to some kind of "review bombing" by users?

Synergism

david75 wrote: »

not gonna lie i think there's probably something behind it across every single big film and western culture generally and it probably is some sort of interference from russia. There's simply too much of it and repeating to be a coincidence.

What would be the motive behind it?

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

Please, could you and the people who liked your post take a quick look at the Review % and User % on RT for Wonder Woman, Thor Ragnarok, GotG 2 and Spiderman Homecoming and tell me that you honestly think these movies are being subjected to some kind of "review bombing" by users?

correct me if im wrong

youre saying a figure on the internet is saying this movie is bad, so therefore this movie is bad.. am i with you so far?

if so, what then do you want me or anyone who liked it to say in response?

do we have to think its bad too? when we dont?

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

both films released pre trump though..its not even tin foil hat to look at america and seeing the machine trying to close down net neutrality while russian bots are still active on that campaign and were present in the election there..

Wonder Woman.

Released May 15 2017. Post Trump.

76 Review score on metacritic.
7.8 user score on metacritic.

92% review score on RT.
89% user score on RT.

Maybe the bots had the day off or something?

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

correct me if im wrong

youre saying a figure on the internet is saying this movie is bad, so therefore this movie is bad.. am i with you so far?

if so, what then do you want me or anyone who liked it to say in response?

do we have to think its bad too? when we dont?

Nope.

I am saying that there is no conspiracy here.

david75

Synergism wrote: »

What would be the motive behind it?

look at what russian interference did in america..exposed a divide that was always there but energised the hateful and kinda ignorant element..if they dont end up having a civil war soon it'll be weird..

in terms of why bother with it at all, you can break any culture if you divide it, and by diviing the things it holds onto most, religion down to entertainment..

break america first and you then break its cultural hold over the entire western world. then you step in and take over.
it sounds wacky but its not without basis in the current climate.

server down

The difference in user scores between TFA and TLJ probably does indicate legitimate unhappy fans.

And now that the movie has been out a while it’s probably not just die hard fans who watched at midnight (as I previously thought). Let’s see how that rating performs in the next few days.

bennyl10

Saruhashi wrote: »

Looking at Rogue One and The Force Awakens, this doesn't add up.

RO has 65 from reviewers and 7.6 from viewers on Metacritic.
RO has 85% review score on RT and 87% user score.

TFA has 81 from reviewers and 6.9 from users on Metacritic.
TFA has 93% review score on RT and 88% user score.

So how comeost a bad review? It seems like these two movies were reasonably well received by the public.

Now compare to TLJ.

TLJ has 86 from reviewers and 5.3 from users on Metacritic.
TLJ has 93% review score on RT (same as TFA) but has a 57% user score.

So the theory here is that people mostly upvoted RO and TFA alone for the past 2 years but now that TLJ is out they've decided they irrationally hate Star Wars and want to randomly downvote it.

I've seen many people online over the past view days articulating their dislike of the movie pretty well.

Is it not easier to explain the low scores compared to RO and TFA by saying that people maybe just didn't like

TLJ took a risk that the other movies don't do to begin with..

TLJ has pissed off some of the diehards with its choices, and those are the people most likely to see it in its first few days.. one big choice that seems to have really annoyed people online!

TLJ is nowhere near as bad as some are making it out, it serves as a very good passing of the torch movie..

Yes it has some cheesy humour, but Jesus H what Star Wars movie doesn't apart from rogue one?!

It jas a lot of praise online also, not as always with everything, the negatives are louder..

It really is a decent movie,
Risky, but it's a very solid step in this story..

pixelburp

I'll be honest, this was not what I thought the first full day of discussion about this film would entail...

irishthump

Conspiracy theories aside, the pattern seems to be this:

The overwhelming majority of early reviews are extremely favourable.

But there is an increasing trend on forums (like this one, not just the rabid SW fan sites) and on many threads on Facebook which indicates a roughly 50:50 split on the opinions of those that have seen the movie.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

Nope.

I am saying that there is no conspiracy here.

there probably isnt.. my question stands..why are you wasting your time trying to tell us were wrong for liking something simply cos you dont?

its your loss at the end of the day. i can still enjoy this regardless of your thoughts. so theres no point trying.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

look at what russian interference did in america..exposed a divide that was always there but energised the hateful and kinda ignorant element..if they dont end up having a civil war soon it'll be weird..

in terms of why bother with it at all, you can break any culture if you divide it, and by diviing the things it holds onto most, religion down to entertainment..

break america first and you then break its cultural hold over the entire western world. then you step in and take over.
it sounds wacky but its not without basis in the current climate.

It absolutely is without basis in the context of movie reviews.

A browse through the big releases on RT and MC shows that audiences tend to be much more forgiving of movies that get really low critic scores. Movies that get high critic scores seem to be mostly in alignment with the user scores.

TLJ is a bit of an exception to the rule but I feel like many of the criticisms have been explained well and so we don't need to go looking for some kind of dark conspiracy to explain why reviewers and audiences are in opposition here.

Osmosis Jones

I liked it a lot, everything past the first 40 minutes was great, some of the performances were incredible.

The less said about that one scene the better.

EagererBeaver

Thought it was good, but a tad too long and there were some disappointing/underwhelming bits in it. I'd put it on a par with TFA though.

Rogue One is the best of all of them by a considerable distance for me.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

there probably isnt.. my question stands..why are you wasting your time trying to tell us were wrong for liking something simply cos you dont?

its your loss at the end of the day. i can still enjoy this regardless of your thoughts. so theres no point trying.

I'm not wasting my time. I actually enjoyed the research when the review scores were brought up. I thought it would be helpful to be honest.

I don't think you are wrong for liking the movie.

60+% of people seem to like the movie. I am OK with that. Hell, maybe I just don't "get it". That's fine.

I didn't like it but there is no right or wrong here.

Where I think you are wrong is trying to find a way to objectively prove that the movie is good.

You've shared snarky tweets about the hypocrisy of Star Wars fans by creating a false dichotomy between "playing it safe" and "taking risks".

You've implied that the low user scores are down to Trump or Russians or something.

I think that part of this whole thing is wrong.

I suggest we agree to disagree for everyone's sake?

Sad Professor

About the ending:

Everything about Luke

walking out to face the AT-ATs was masterful. I was really worried that Luke was going to pull a Yoda in Episode 2/3 on the walkers, totally undoing that great moment in RotJ when he throws away his lightsaber, a scene that had a profound impact on me as a child. Once I realised he wasn't trying to fight Kylo and was just buying time for everyone to escape I was delighted. And then when it was revealed that he wasn't really there and was just performing a massive Jedi mind trick or whatever on everyone - such a great send-off for Luke, that shows both his power and his goodness.

And as in the rest of the film, Johnson is saying so much here about what it means to be a hero. Being a hero isn't about fighting and killing the bad guys, it's about saving your friends from the bad guys.

The final scene with

the kid came out of left-field, but the more I think about it the more perfect it seems. I mean, thematically that's what the whole movie is about. I also assume it was a reference to the Star Wars Kid meme. The fact that Johnson would make that the final scene of the film knowing the negative reaction it would receive from some quarters just makes me admire him even more.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

I'm not wasting my time. I actually enjoyed the research when the review scores were brought up. I thought it would be helpful to be honest.

I don't think you are wrong for liking the movie.

60+% of people seem to like the movie. I am OK with that. Hell, maybe I just don't "get it". That's fine.

I didn't like it but there is no right or wrong here.

Where I think you are wrong is trying to find a way to objectively prove that the movie is good.

You've shared snarky tweets about the hypocrisy of Star Wars fans by creating a false dichotomy between "playing it safe" and "taking risks".

You've implied that the low user scores are down to Trump or Russians or something.

I think that part of this whole thing is wrong.

I suggest we agree to disagree for everyone's sake?

you dont get it..ansd that is totally fine. youre gonna have to take my word for it but theres far more true star wars to unpack in this film than anything to date..TFA gave us a million questions, TLJ gives us a million star wars questions..you might not see the difference right now but its there and you hopefully will.

im not trying to 'prove the movie was good'..youve spent many posts trying to prove it's bad though, with statistics. and further, using a breakdown ofmy posts as statistics to add to your point?

i dont think star wars is for you...

we had 6 to 10 regular posters of differing opinion in this thread in the two years run up to the release of this film but suddenly we're overrun by your 'expertise' and i'm still lost as to your overall point..we heard you didnt like the film, and yet you keep throwing numbers at it and trying to convince otherwise..

personally, if i dont like something i just leave it there and never do it again. i dont actively engage with people who do like it just to be heard.

nix

david75 wrote: »

i dont think star wars is for you...

So, because someone doesnt like this particular star wars movie, you think star wars isnt for them?

david75

Sad Professor wrote: »

About the ending:

Everything about Luke

walking out to the face the AT-ATs was masterful. I was really worried that Luke was going to pull a Yoda in Episode 2/3 on the walkers, totally undoing that great moment in RotJ when he throws away his lightsaber, a scene that had a profound impact on me as a child. Once I realised he wasn't trying to fight Kylo and was just buying time for everyone to escape I was delighted. And then when it was revealed that he wasn't really there and was just performing a massive Jedi mind trick or whatever on everyone - such a great send-off for Luke, that shows both his power and his goodness.

And as in the rest of the film, Johnson is saying so much here about what it means to be a hero. Being a hero isn't about fighting and killing the bad guys, it's about saving your friends from the bad guys.

The final scene with

the kid came out of left-field, but the more I think about it the more perfect it seems. I mean, thematically that's what the whole movie is about. I also assume it was a reference to the Star Wars Kid meme. The fact that Johnson would make that the final scene of the film knowing the negative reaction it would receive from some quarters just makes me admire him even more.

completely loved that

its got deeper layers too cos i think he feels this is his redemption..he failed with ben who became kylo and put the galaxy at risk as a result but he can keep the spark alive by distracting kylo and allowing the rebels left to flee by sacrificing himself to go on and grow to take up the fight.
and i LOVED how he did it..hes THAT powerful he can focus his force power to such a point across the galaxy and the way we get to see him broken and depleted afterwards just added that bitter price that has to be paid elemnt,
we have to suffer so the next generation can be better than us..echoes yodas though too, we do this so they can outgrow us..>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>i think the kid at the end was either a metaphor for all this..the rebellion and the jedi will survive and grow...or its a very on the nose link to rians new trilogy unrelated to the skywalkers...lets see!!

irishthump

david75 wrote: »

you dont get it..ansd that is totally fine. youre gonna have to take my word for it but theres far more true star wars to unpack in this film than anything to date..TFA gave us a million questions, TLJ gives us a million star wars questions..you might not see the difference right now but its there and you hopefully will.

im not trying to 'prove the movie was good'..youve spent many posts trying to prove it's bad though, with statistics. and further, using a breakdown ofmy posts as statistics to add to your point?

i dont think star wars is for you...

.

That is the most pompous reply I have ever read.

You don’t get to decide if Star Wars is “for” him or not. It’s quite possible to love the Star Wars movies and to think this one is bad at the same time.
I know this because I am of the same opinion. I don’t think it’s up to scratch, simple as that. I will give it a second look next week but I can’t see my opinion changing. I would defend this film to anybody if I thought it was worthy of it but the sad truth is that it’s not. There are fans who will defend everything no matter how bad but I’m afraid I’m not one of them.

david75

nix wrote: »

So, because someone doesnt like this particular star wars movie, you think star wars isnt for them?

i dont have the energy right now tbh..of course not..just wasnt a fan of using bs data from a flawed website and measurement of value as the sole basis of discussion rather than talk about the film at hand and its merits and flaws.

nix

david75 wrote: »

i dont have the energy right now tbh..of course not..just wasnt a fan of using bs data from a flawed website and measurement of value as the sole basis of discussion rather than talk about the film at hand and its merits and flaws.

No thats cool, it wasnt clear to me and it seemed outrageous so just making sure :pac:

gambithh

Havent read any of the above but here are my two cents..

I Really like Rogue one and The Force Awakens, but come away quiet let down by this.

Too many annoying characters particurally the overweights asian one (so utterly forgettable i cant recall here name)
The scene when she crashed into Finns speeder to save him,kissed him and apparently dies was the worst in any star wars film and drew a cringe from the entire cinema.Finns role in this movie was also wasted.Those two really let the movie down for me.The whole casino scene shouldnt have been in the movie.

I also wasnt feeling the humour in this,a darker tone like in Rogur one would have been more welcome.
The skelligs,any scene with Luke,Kylo, Ray, Lightsaber battle was excellent however.

irishthump

Spoilers man, spoilers!!!

david75

irishthump wrote: »

That is the most pompous reply I have ever read.

You don’t get to decide if Star Wars is “for” him or not. It’s quite possible to love the Star Wars movies and to think this one is bad at the same time.
I know this because I am of the same opinion. I don’t think it’s up to scratch, simple as that. I will give it a second look next week but I can’t see my opinion changing. I would defend this film to anybody if I thought it was worthy of it but the sad truth is that it’s not. There are fans who will defend everything no matter how bad but I’m afraid I’m not one of them.

pompous i say!!
i hope you banged your hand on the table..

good for you.

id rather just talk about the film than bullsh!t statistics..he seemed more into statistics..read his posts.

brianregan09

Russia ...influencing ......Star Wars......film......reviews.......................ok.

Looper007

I can't believe some of the hate this film is getting, I thought it was a enjoyable 2hrs 30mins and was better then the rubbish we got with the prequels. It's No Rogue One (really underrated film, probably the third best Star Wars film). You just can't please die hard Star Wars fans, but I'm sure they are getting a ton more fans on board who will fight these films Corners in the future.

irishthump

david75 wrote: »

pompous i say!!
i hope you banged your hand on the table..

good for you.

id rather just talk about the film than bullsh!t statistics..he seemed more into statistics..read his posts.

I thought you were too tired.