Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

irishthump

Looper007 wrote: »

You just can't please die hard Star Wars fans, but I'm sure they are getting a ton more fans on board who will fight these films Corners in the future.

That’s not the pattern that’s emerging. It seems to be a 50:50 split right across the viewership. Good and bad reviews from all sides.

Being a “die hard” fan has nothing to do with it, this movie has real flaws.

Wibbs

Sad Professor wrote: »

About the ending:

Everything about Luke..

Indeed. Personally speaking I felt Luke as a character was massively short changed and a bit of a kick in the goolies for the audience.

he goes from the last Jedi in ROTJ, trains new ones, then one new one, his nephew goes bad or potentially goes bad, so he is ready to kill him(major WTF moment there. He was able to turn his own father around in the end, but not some teenaged strop thrower?). Then throws a wobbler and leaves to essentially abandon the galaxy and the Jedi way to the same strop thrower and his ilk? It;s not logical for what we know of him, nor anywhere close to "heroic". He may have been a thundering eejit at times in the original story, but his heart was always in the right place. That's before we get to Yoda showing up. Like WTF? No force ghost vibe either, living breathing old stylee hand up the arse puppet fozzie bear, sorry Yoda. Who agrees and encourages him to burn the Yedi "Bibles", the same texts that have served the Jedi and the galaxy and peace for centuries? Just because a new couple of bad force types shows up for a few years? WTF? Part Two. HIs saving of the few rebels seems grand and I get the redemption part, but IMHO again a cop out. He didn't think feck this I've moped enough there's a new hope(ouch), so I'll go with them a la Ben Kenobi. No I'll stay in my hermitage, like the failed hero/coward I am and do it by remote control. If his power was that strong, even after blocking the force(WTF? Part three) he could have done far more.

Though of course they couldn't really have Luke being a

continuing

hero. There's a new crew in town and they have to carry the franchise for years to come and more cheaply too.

david75

irishthump wrote: »

That’s not the pattern that’s emerging. It seems to be a 50:50 split right across the viewership. Good and bad reviews from all sides.

Being a “die hard” fan has nothing to do with it, this movie has real flaws.

it's not like disney dont care..they arent going to make bad films just to make money..TLJ has the second highest preview night box office after TFA.. they cant maintain that sucess rate by putting out bad movies..
it definitely has flaws as all star wars films do, thats down to our memories of the originals being so flawless as kids though in part and holding these new ones to that standard.

david75

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed. Personally speaking I felt Luke as a character was massively short changed and a bit of a kick in the goolies for the audience.

he goes from the last Jedi in ROTJ, trains new ones, then one new one, his nephew goes bad or potentially goes bad, so he is ready to kill him(major WTF moment there. He was able to turn his own father around in the end, but not some teenaged strop thrower?). Then throws a wobbler and leaves to essentially abandon the galaxy and the Jedi way to the same strop thrower and his ilk? It;s not logical for what we know of him, nor anywhere close to "heroic". He may have been a thundering eejit at times in the original story, but his heart was always in the right place. That's before we get to Yoda showing up. Like WTF? No force ghost vibe either, living breathing old stylee hand up the arse puppet fozzie bear, sorry Yoda. Who agrees and encourages him to burn the Yedi "Bibles", the same texts that have served the Jedi and the galaxy and peace for centuries? Just because a new couple of bad force types shows up for a few years? WTF? Part Two. HIs saving of the few rebels seems grand and I get the redemption part, but IMHO again a cop out. He didn't think feck this I've moped enough there's a new hope(ouch), so I'll go with them a la Ben Kenobi. No I'll stay in my hermitage, like the failed hero/coward I am and do it by remote control. If his power was that strong, even after blocking the force(WTF? Part three) he could have done far more.

Though of course they couldn't really have Luke being a

continuing

hero. There's a new crew in town and they have to carry the franchise for years to come and more cheaply too.

does he notanswer all of that by his actions

as sacrifice at the end?
hes realised everything you said andwent time to man up..no?

Looper007

irishthump wrote: »

That’s not the pattern that’s emerging. It seems to be a 50:50 split right across the viewership. Good and bad reviews from all sides.

Being a “die hard” fan has nothing to do with it, this movie has real flaws.

I agree that film has flaws, but you swear it was one of the worse films of the year and that it crapped over the Star Wars legacy, have most of these fans not seen the prequels.

david75

so soon....

weeeeeird..he wrote this on a piece of toilet paper...star wars is dooooomed!!

https://twitter.com/MakingStarWars/status/941788067165294593

saintsaltynuts

The original Star Wars movies simply cannot be touched.Big improvement on the last movies TFA and TLJ compared to the prequel's.But when these new Star Wars movies come out they can never compare.The original three we're like lightning in a bottle.

Acosta

Not seen such a mass level of delusion since May 99. I was waiting for a Paul Feig writing credit at the end. Surprised there wasn't few fart jokes.

Didn't help that the cinema seemed to be full of Cork's society of Big Bang Theory fans. They laughed at EVERY.****ING.CRINGE WORTHY one liner.

Loved Rogue One and really enjoyed TFA but this was utter rubbish, an absolute mess.

It's not the end of the world either. My childhood isn't ruined or anything. Two out of three isn't bad for Disney, but my immediate reaction walking out of the cinema was utter confusion as to how they could have ****ed this up so badly. The length of it just made it worse.

I don't get all this talk of risk taking and a bold new direction and massive twists etc? WTF? It still was very much a Star Wars movie, just a terrible one

It didn't help that they picked up the story directly after TFA ended. There was no room for a bit of off screen development of the characters like there was between ANH and Empire.
Meaning Poe and Finn were still turned up to ****ing 11. Seriously, is Poe on on the space dust? He really needs to calm the hell down for a few minutes and have a cup of tea. Thought Rose was fine, if for anything else because she was a little chilled out. Give me those Rogue One characters any day over this new lot.

Osmosis Jones

Is it really that hard for people to talk about a movie without insulting everyone who disagrees with them?

Slydice

now lower than The Phantom Menace:

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/

Wibbs

Looper007 wrote: »

I can't believe some of the hate this film is getting, I thought it was a enjoyable 2hrs 30mins and was better then the rubbish we got with the prequels.

The prequels... yep a mess. Though for my money a mess with its heart and storytelling in the right place. Lucas tried(and mostly failed) to get what he was after up on screen, but he did try. The Disney flics are much more about marketing and getting the returns on the payout for the franchise. They try to be all things to all men. TBH I feel for the director/writers. There was certainly a feeling for me of a background committee in play with this film. That certain bits and bobs, the parts that dragged were pushed for by this committee. I suspect that the directors unalloyed script and final film might have had me going WTF, but it would have made more sense, would have been shorter by 30 minutes and would have been a more cohesive story. Or maybe not as it was very clear, again to me, that much of his writing was a) throwing away continuation from TFA(and the original trilogy) and b) throwing away any of the interim fan theories on different characters for the sake of it. Almost out of spite.

Snoke being offed an example. Built up in TFA as the new superbaddy/emperor with some likely cool backstory and wicked dark powahs. Kylo bows to him and sees him as a near diety. After all this guy resurrected the old empire, built up an army and Death Star, sorry Star Killer Base and was grooming new Sith on the sly behind the Republic's back. But no, he was apparently a throwaway red shirt taken out by Kylo. That he was taken out so easily jarred. Never mind the Kylo/Rey fight with his bodyguards. We have seen that Jedi/Sith make utter mincemeat of normal non force people with barely a thought. QV Darth Vader in Rogue One, where he fcuks up trained troops like he's walking to the shops. Or Yoda in ROTS, where he walks into the Emperor's office and knocks out his Imperial bodyguards with a mere wave of his hand. But here it runs like they're fighting near equals. Cool scene yes, but more for the fans wanting a fight IMHO. So yeah it looked like a clearing of the decks by the director/writers, almost for the sake of it. TBH I am surprised they got that passed by the "committee".

saintsaltynuts wrote:

The original Star Wars movies simply cannot be touched.Big improvement on the last movies TFA and TLJ compared to the prequel's.But when these new Star Wars movies come out they can never compare.The original three we're like lightning in a bottle.

I dunno SSN. There can be an element of nostalgia going on too. Now just my humble; Star Wars was great and made a whole new world to play around in. Empire was bloody fantastic and like the Godfather, the sequel was better, but Return of the Jedi was a bit weak. For my money Revenge of the Sith was(with reservations) the better film and story. Take about 20 minutes from the first two in the sequel and jam them into ROTS(while taking 20 minutes out of it) and you'd have one very good SW flic. Again in my humble. The Farce Awakens was piss poor and a retcon of the first Star Wars, with added Mary Sue and nods for fans. Though I would feel Rogue One, being a "side project" and had its flaws, but was the better story than the main Farce Awakens/TLJ.

Maybe that's where better stories will be told in this universe, in the side projects? Mainly because both expectation and stood oversight may be lesser? Though the Han Solo flic is mired in production poo. Writers, directors etc are coming and going like musical chairs as is the script. I have hopes that they'll do the Obi Wan/Ben Kenobi story with McGregor on Dune, sorry Tatooine. That could be interesting as it would be harder to screw with the established mythology. I'd near pray for a mid budget TV spot as TV is more where its at now for more considered storytelling.

thegreengoblin

Looper007 wrote: »

I agree that film has flaws, but you swear it was one of the worse films of the year and that it crapped over the Star Wars legacy, have most of these fans not seen the prequels.

I can't get my head around this at all. Any time the prequels came up for discussion on here in the run-up to TLJ most people, rightly, dismissed them as the rubbish films they are. Now it's suddenly 'oh actually you know what, they're not so bad after all'. Laughable stuff.

People seem to forgive and forget very easily.

A Little Pony

I enjoyed it, probably should have cut the jokes out but I thought it was a lead way into his new trilogy more than anything with the ending. Star Wars is so big that you can't please everyone, it's almost too big for it's own good.

bennyl10

Slydice wrote: »

now lower than The Phantom Menace:

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/

2 days after release on RT.. better take it away from cinemas, RT has spoken!

Well that's that then, it's the worst movie of all time..

Realistically it's nowhere near as bad as TPM, come on..

It's a solid 7-8/10..

geecee

I absolutely loathed the movie... *snip*

However having watched this (admittedly long) review by the Jedi Council on Collider video... I have decided maybe it wasn't a 5/10 and not a 3/10!

Warning - link below contains spoilers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r946-NCi4U

Wibbs

david75 wrote: »

does he notanswer all of that by his actions

as sacrifice at the end?
hes realised everything you said andwent time to man up..no?

Not really D. It jars that

he went so far as to bugger off in the first place,

especially after his very real travels and travails through the power of redemption in his story arc. That's near all of what he and his journey is about. Even in his very last moments with his Da, after all his Da has been and done, he still tries to save him and bring him home. It's his Da who tells him he already has(which hit me in the feelz at the time). It just doesn't fit what we know of his character.

That he would try and rebuild the Jedi Order and succeed, only for one who goes rogue. And one always does. That he thinks of killing him, rather than fight to redeem him, just makes no sense after all he's done and who he is and how he redeemed the nephews own grandfather.

bennyl10

geecee wrote: »

I absolutely loathed the movie... and reading the lunatic & pompous rantings of SWs no.1 Irish fanboy above have made me hate it even more...

Someone disagrees with you on the movie and is a "lunatic and pompous".. yup I hated the prequels and thought TFA was overhyped and liked.. but fanboy..

Alrighty then.. this is the stage of debate we've reached..

buried

lol Good sufferin Jayzus. I have to go see this thing now. Sounds like Werner Herzog or Kenneth Anger might have directed this thing with the entertaining speil's coming out here after the initial aftermath! Might go see it monday. Will definitely see it a biteen drunky drunk whatever day it is

Wibbs

david75 wrote: »

boards own professional fvckwit and self professed font of knowledge of everything no matter the topic has even blessed us with his presence.. oh the joy!

Hey!! Fcuk you D. I'm Boards.ie's own professional fvckwit and self professed font of knowledge of everything no matter the topic and I'll suffer no pretenders goddammit! Jesus, the absolute cheek. Kidz these days...

david75

Wibbs wrote: »

Not really D. It jars that

he went so far as to bugger off in the first place,

especially after his very real travels and travails through the power of redemption in his story arc. That's near all of what he and his journey is about. Even in his very last moments with his Da, after all his Da has been and done, he still tries to save him and bring him home. It's his Da who tells him he already has(which hit me in the feelz at the time). It just doesn't fit what we know of his character.

That he would try and rebuild the Jedi Order and succeed, only for one who goes rogue. And one always does. That he thinks of killing him, rather than fight to redeem him, just makes no sense after all he's done and who he is and how he redeemed the nephews own grandfather.

he didnt try to kill kylo though..he flirted with it and didnt but got caught flirting with it..thats the moment and impetus for running away into exile i think

david75

Wibbs wrote: »

Hey!! Fcuk you D. I'm Boards.ie's own professional fvckwit and self professed font of knowledge of everything no matter the topic and I'll suffer no pretenders goddammit! Jesus, the absolute cheek. Kidz these days...

your earlier work was far better.,

johnny_ultimate

Mod note: Have unfortunately had to issue a few cards and delete a few posts. If some posters can't discuss the film without getting personal, then we'll reluctantly have to issue more.

It's a bloomin' Star Wars film folks, not even remotely worth attacking each other over.

A Little Pony

Maybe the weak minded didn't understand what was happening, it's understandable as they aren't one with the force. 

Be interesting to see what he does with the new trilogy and if he will go back in time or to the future after the Skywalker saga is over. The skill difference between the prequels and these movies is night and day. You would think they hadn't picked up a lightsaber before in these movies. It's something which it lacks imo.

A Little Pony

bennyl10 wrote: »

Slydice wrote: »

now lower than The Phantom Menace:

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/

2 days after release on RT.. better take it away from cinemas, RT has spoken!

Well that's that then, it's the worst movie of all time..

Realistically it's nowhere near as bad as TPM, come on..

It's a solid 7-8/10..

TPM has it's moments too. TLJ is a much better movie but for me when I think of Star Wars I think of Jedi when I think of Jedi I think of fight sequences and nothing in this movie matches the fighting in the TPM.

Osmosis Jones

A Little Pony wrote: »

TPM has it's moments too. TLJ is a much better movie but for me when I think of Star Wars I think of Jedi when I think of Jedi I think of fight sequences and nothing in this movie matches the fighting in the TPM.

Am I really reading this?

AnneFrank

Just back from the film with my teenage kids, we all loved the movie, Luke was really good and Ben was much better in this one

david75

A Little Pony wrote: »

TPM has it's moments too. TLJ is a much better movie but for me when I think of Star Wars I think of Jedi when I think of Jedi I think of fight sequences and nothing in this movie matches the fighting in the TPM.

big argument to be said that a lot of this film is taking the tone from the prequels and bringing into now...

finn and rose on the favier/horsething as an en example

could be rian had a mission to try bond it all..

were coming to the end of the story even jj said the prequels will be an influence on the final chapter. so maybe?

A Little Pony

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

TPM has it's moments too. TLJ is a much better movie but for me when I think of Star Wars I think of Jedi when I think of Jedi I think of fight sequences and nothing in this movie matches the fighting in the TPM.

Am I really reading this?

Yes.The fight sequences  are better in TPM with the lightsaber.

FutureGuy

There is so much wrong with a movie, I could spend an hour going over it. Im stunned by people defending it. The plot is absolute garbage, the script is poor and it's easily 45 mins too long.

It looks like it could pay off in a number of places but it completely flubs it again and again.

There are some great moments but they are just lost in the garbage that is TLJ. After TFAs strong opening, this is a huge disappointment.

Kylo Ren. Jesus H Christ, what on earth were they doing there. They set up his struggle in the last movie and double-downed on it when he chose NOT to kill his mother here - at a time when no one was looking - it was just him in his tie. Then he looks to maybe side with Rey. Then what happens? They fcuk it all out the window.

Snoke. Double Jesus H. Christ, what was the point at all? He was a complete non entity. Like any interest in Kylo's development, it fell off the cliff. Why even bother with him in TFA when is is nothing more than a pawn to to set up something (Rey and Kylo uniting) that fizzles out 5 minutes later. So much potential.

Finn. Wasted. In fact, as much as I liked the character and his interaction with Rose, it was an utter waste. Again. It was like they needed something for his character to do but his whole mission had zero impact. The Casino city was pointless. In fact, if we took out Finn, Rose, the horse aliens and their mission, you mightn't even miss it. It hurt the pacing. Awful ending of their story by Rose taking him out. Silly writing.

The script. Dear lord. The whole idea that the First Order fleet couldn't catch up with the rebels was laughably bad. Laughably. It was so dumb, it ruined every interaction between fleets. And as for the purple-haired character staying on the ship to pilot it (FFS, pilot it where), it's almost as if she knew she was going to kamikaze into the main FO ship so stayed on board. And don't get me started about the cloaking. Look out the window.

There is easily an hour of film on the cutting room floor, much of which I am sure would have helped the movie and its flow. Did we really have to see Rey clicking her fingers in a cave? Did we really have to see as much of Luke and Rey on the island? Too many times, we had to infer things - Rey getting on board the falcon for example.

I felt I was being preached at - animal abuse is bad, greed is bad, women are strong and capable (no ****, I know that by living life).

Rey. How did she develop as a character? That's right. She didn't. She can do in a few days/weeks what it took Luke three films (and more) to do. And don't get me started on her lineage. I have no problem with her not being a Skywalker/Kenobi/Palpatine/whatever since I'm sure many Jedi were the same - they were just kids who developed abilities. But Star Wars told the story of lineage and family. Her lineage was teased in TFA and again here. It was built up. But in the end, it was build up to nothingness. Like Snoke. Like Kylo. Again. I get the point that is being made here - anyone can be a Jedi if they are strong with the force, but we KNOW that already.

Luke. What an utterly stupid decision to have his hair and beard brown during the final scenes. It was completely clear it wasn't him and it ruined any suspense. Again, I could start picking at it for a few seconds and the whole thing comes apart (how did droids see him, how did the dice disappear out of Leia's hand later). Again, I get the message, Luke was able to defeat them by NOT fighting, but the execution was horrid.

Leia in space. Poe. BB8 randomly saving the day and getting to places he shouldn't be able to get (ATATs), making such unnatural changes to tone 8 films into a series of 9. Chronic misuse of Phasma. I could go on.

There are some good parts, and when it is good, it is absolutely great. However, they are diamonds set in a bracelet made of tinfoil. I know the more I think about it, the more I'll find wrong.

So utterly disappointing. 4/10.

Acosta

FutureGuy wrote: »

There is so much wrong with a movie, I could spend an hour going over it. Im stunned by people defending it. The plot is absolute garbage, the script is poor and it's easily 45 mins too long.

It looks like it could pay off in a number of places but it completely flubs it again and again.

There are some great moments but they are just lost in the garbage that is TLJ. After TFAs strong opening, this is a huge disappointment.

Kylo Ren. Jesus H Christ, what on earth were they doing there. They set up his struggle in the last movie and double-downed on it when he chose NOT to kill his mother here - at a time when no one was looking - it was just him in his tie. Then he looks to maybe side with Rey. Then what happens? They fcuk it all out the window.

Snoke. Double Jesus H. Christ, what was the point at all? He was a complete non entity. Like any interest in Kylo's development, it fell off the cliff. Why even bother with him in TFA when is is nothing more than a pawn to to set up something (Rey and Kylo uniting) that fizzles out 5 minutes later. So much potential.

Finn. Wasted. In fact, as much as I liked the character and his interaction with Rose, it was an utter waste. Again. It was like they needed something for his character to do but his whole mission had zero impact. The Casino city was pointless. In fact, if we took out Finn, Rose, the horse aliens and their mission, you mightn't even miss it. It hurt the pacing. Awful ending of their story by Rose taking him out. Silly writing.

The script. Dear lord. The whole idea that the First Order fleet couldn't catch up with the rebels was laughably bad. Laughably. It was so dumb, it ruined every interaction between fleets. And as for the purple-haired character staying on the ship to pilot it (FFS, pilot it where), it's almost as if she knew she was going to kamikaze into the main FO ship so stayed on board. And don't get me started about the cloaking. Look out the window.

There is easily an hour of film on the cutting room floor, much of which I am sure would have helped the movie and its flow. Did we really have to see Rey clicking her fingers in a cave? Did we really have to see as much of Luke and Rey on the island? Too many times, we had to infer things - Rey getting on board the falcon for example.

I felt I was being preached at - animal abuse is bad, greed is bad, women are strong and capable (no ****, I know that by living life).

Rey. How did she develop as a character? That's right. She didn't. She can do in a few days/weeks what it took Luke three films (and more) to do. And don't get me started on her lineage. I have no problem with her not being a Skywalker/Kenobi/Palpatine/whatever since I'm sure many Jedi were the same - they were just kids who developed abilities. But Star Wars told the story of lineage and family. Her lineage was teased in TFA and again here. It was built up. But in the end, it was build up to nothingness. Like Snoke. Like Kylo. Again. I get the point that is being made here - anyone can be a Jedi if they are strong with the force, but we KNOW that already.

Luke. What an utterly stupid decision to have his hair and beard brown during the final scenes. It was completely clear it wasn't him and it ruined any suspense. Again, I could start picking at it for a few seconds and the whole thing comes apart (how did droids see him, how did the dice disappear out of Leia's hand later). Again, I get the message, Luke was able to defeat them by NOT fighting, but the execution was horrid.

Leia in space. Poe. BB8 randomly saving the day and getting to places he shouldn't be able to get (ATATs), making such unnatural changes to tone 8 films into a series of 9. Chronic misuse of Phasma. I could go on.

There are some good parts, and when it is good, it is absolutely great. However, they are diamonds set in a bracelet made of tinfoil. I know the more I think about it, the more I'll find wrong.

So utterly disappointing. 4/10.

Well said