Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Gbear

With hindsight I don't think much of VII and liked Rogue 1 and this an awful lot more.

They go in far more interesting places than a retreading of previous films, full of plot holes, bad jokes that fall flat and only a smattering of quality to keep it afloat.

This is far more it's own thing.

Rey going from 0-Space Jesus is a bit jarring but leaving that aside,
I really like her arc and those that intersect with it. Most of the rest of the film is kind of a waste of time, but it's mostly a colourful, well acted, well scripted waste of time.

I get Luke's arc in this film. He saved the galaxy and probably did lose himself to hubris of the Master of the new Jedi Order only to get his kids killed, destroy his nephew, plunge the galaxy into war again and I can see how that would drive him to the edge. It's one thing to experience loss. It's another to instigate it.

His actions bespoke not only a titanic display of the power of the force,
doing something we've never seen before, but also it redeemed his character in as much as he needed it. It's a shame that he's gone but it's a good ending, I thought.

Finn and Rose's plot, got most of the Rebels killed as an outcome. They literally would've been better off shooting themselves in the face.
In general, the whole star destroyers chasing them down had a more plodding feel than a tense one IMO.

The suicide-hyperspace run was the greatest thing I've ever seen in film?
Maybe? Best explosion, maybe? It was phenomenal. I think I actually let a gasp escape involuntarily when it did the sort of black and white, soundless,
burnt trail through the fleet of star destroyers thing.

I teared up a little when R2 played the old video of Leia.

Osmosis Jones

One of Finn or Rose should have

died. I like Finn and want to see more of him but the way they set up his near-death was perfect and either he should have died, or Rose should have died saving him.

Wibbs

kdevitt wrote: »

Random semi-spoilerish thought

Surely with Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin all floating around in the force somewhere, one of them would have popped up and explained to Luke that going in to murder his nephew was a bad idea?

Yeah, the though kinda occurred. A bit a little too late going on. And again made no sense.

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

One of Finn or Rose should have

died. I like Finn and want to see more of him but the way they set up his near-death was perfect and either he should have died, or Rose should have died saving him.

Gotta think of the Asian market...

furiousox

Sigh....did we really have to sit through a small plucky band of rebels poring over some plans, sneaking aboard an imperial vessel, borrowing some uniforms and attempting to disable a dastardly empire device against all the odds, with predictable results, AGAIN?

Gbear

Sad Professor wrote: »

Kylo isn't a villain. He's an anti-hero. This was made pretty clear in TFA. A movie doesn't need a villain, just conflict.

He's definitely a villain.

He's a psychotic nutcase who's murdered his father, master, guards, beats people up and chokes them when he doesn't get his way and wants dominion over the entire galaxy.

An anti-hero is Han Solo. He shoots first, he's a smuggler, he ****-talks royalty,
and legs it for a pay day, but ultimately pulls through for the good guys.

He still has to be a hero after he does all the bad ****.

Kylo Ren has believeable motivations, pretty much for the first time of any villainous character in a Star Wars film, but he's certainly not an anti-hero.

Further, he's now the main bad guy. It would be apalling at this point to bring in some new bad guy or make a spineless underling like Hux be the main threat.
It must be Kylo Ren. It doesn't mean he can't have any redemption, but it can't be the same kind as Vader because now that Snoke is gone, he has nobody to be less evil than in comparison to.

In some respects I think it's actually a shame this is Episode 8.
This would've been far better as Episode 7, with a few tweaks, with two more episodes to go from here. This feels like more of a beginning.

If they'd started the new trilogy with the Dreadnought blowing up the new Republic, and killing it off with that bombing run and blending in the finding of Rey on Jakku or something it might've worked better.

It would've skipped the generally pointless TFA whose sole purpose was to introduce the new characters and skim a few of the old off. They could've done that and had this more interesting film at the same time.

Gbear

david75 wrote: »

I reckon Bens lying to her on the parents thing in order to weaken her in that moment and try and knock her confidence but he’s going about it the wrong way. It’s exactly the abusive treatment he’s gotten from Snoke.

I don't think so. At this point there's nobody for her parents to be.
The line they're going with is that she's a product of fate, destiny and the Force bringing itself into alignment, as per Snoke.

DrWu

Gbear wrote: »

In some respects I think it's actually a shame this is Episode 8.
This would've been far better as Episode 7, with a few tweaks, with two more episodes to go from here. This feels like more of a beginning.

If they'd started the new trilogy with the Dreadnought blowing up the new Republic, and killing it off with that bombing run and blending in the finding of Rey on Jakku or something it might've worked better.

It would've skipped the generally pointless TFA whose sole purpose was to introduce the new characters and skim a few of the old off. They could've done that and had this more interesting film at the same time.

Its the lack of an overall vision for the trilogy that will be it's biggest failing in years to come.

I love TLJ. I really liked TFA as well but bits of it really bother me: Solo's death felt weird and pointless, the opening scene with Poe and Ren looked way too sound-stagey (even though it wasn't) and JJ's direction always bothered me (he cant keep the camera still or resist the urge to cut every half second).

I just wish someone sat down and worked out an overall story for the trilogy and then let the directors bring their own flair to each project.

tunguska

Saw it tonight......... a couple of days ago someone posted a 4 word review:
Long, Boring and ****e.
Agree 100%. And Id be the kind to defend star wars but this was just a souless exercise in printing money. It'll probably end up as the most financially successful film of all time but its an empty film that lacks the one thing that made the original 3 movies by George lucas: Heart.
Someday someone will make a great star wars movie again this just wasnt it. Made the force awakens look like Citizen Kane

Gbear

Also, the score was phenomenal.

Better than TFA I think.

I liked it in Rogue 1 but it wasn't a patch on this.

The original trilogy are burnt in my mind for all time and they're the best music in any film, IMO, but the tactical bringing back of old themes and the use of the new ones were just brilliant.

Gbear

I have a soft spot for Darth Maul and the acrobatics on show in that film, not to mention the soundtrack behind it, elevating it further.
I think it has it's place in these films, particularly if it's compared to other actions.

The travesty is turning Yoda into a bouncing gob****e.
You can do that with young peons who've just discovrered this force yoke and they like jumpin around.

It should absolutely be about the hare and the tortoise sort of thing.
Young whippersnappers running around chasing each other while the more wise know that that's not what this Force lark is about.

That was beautifully encapsulated in this film where we never see Luke wield a lightsaber other than in a form intented to trick Kylo Ren. Instead he uses the Force, as Yoda and Sidious should have used it in the prequels and as Obi-Wan should've had to use it to defeat Darth Maul when being a dab hand with a lightsaber couldn't cut it. He used his brain to pretty much pull a fast one because he has a calm head and knows all the tricks, while Kylo Ren is running around thinking with his dick. And it also so massively dwarfs anything you can do with the "laser sword" that Luke is so happy to deride.

Edit: Another thing on this; I'm not certain about the exact lines but I think what Luke was doing wasn't writing Kylo Ren off at all. I think he said that he could be saved or something like that? And that's what this scene is. He spent his life (they alluded to this in passing when Kylo Ren said Rey should've been killed with the effort of them communicating, although I didn't peg it at the time), in order to save his friends and not kill Kylo Ren, which he possibly could have if he had a mind to.
Instead, he intrusted it to the actual Last Jedi - Rey. He thinks she can still do it.

It's just that I don't know what she can save him from at this point.

Also, she had no character development, so I don't get why anyone believes in her, other than she's really powerful. I don't understand what she learned from her training, or from her scene in the Throne room. So while I think Luke's actions make sense on their own, they don't really work in conjuction with Rey.

nix

I seen it again tonight, i was booked into tonights Imax showing weeks ago and the bro dragged me to the one on thursday.

ANYWAY, knowing what was coming i enjoyed the movie a whole lot more on the second viewing, I just done an old jedi mind trick to block out the scenes i found horrific and liked it a whole lot more, there is a fantastic movie in there, its just a shame there is a load of ****e mixed in with it :rolleyes:

What i loved on the second viewing

and only noticed it because i knew what was happening, when Luke and Kylo are facing off and Lukes dodging him, the camera focuses on their footwork alot, Kylo sliding around leaving traces of red through the salt as he moved, and Luke was leaving nothing, no footprints. So its kinda dribbled to you that hes not really there before the actual reveal, which i found quite impressive tbh..

Gbear

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Same. It's like they totally changed his whole character for this movie. He was great in TFA.

This is puzzling.

Hux was exactly the same. Chewing the scenery, standing up to Kylo Ren because he had enough clout with the leader but ultimately a coward at heart.

I don't understand what you saw when you watched TFA but all the criticisms I've seen from you and others for this film apply far more to the TFA.

Pointlessness of plot, contrivances, much poorer efforts of humour and jarring tone.

It had a bit more energy, jumping from place to place, although what you gain in energy I think you lose in shallowness, and it was fun to experience the new characters for the first time and you had the nostalgia factor of meeting the gang again, but it doesn't hold up on it's own.

The bad is better in TLJ and the good is often better as well.
The space battles are better, the use of the force is better, the lightsaber battles are better (although they're all good in both).
The jokes are terrible in TFA. They might be jarring to some, but they actually hit the mark generally in TLJ, serve a purpose and don't seem like they were just unscripted riffing by people who aren't comedians.

There's a few common beats, like with BB8, who works better than I thought he would in both films, but I'm pretty cynical about these kinds of things at this point and I thought nearly everything landed.

Really,

super-fisher was the only thing that looked daft in my book.
It was a cool moment in a sense, but they just didn't execute it in a way that didn't look daft.

geecee

Another very annoying thing that I just remembered is that the tribute "for our Princess" came pretty late into the end credits... for me it should have been the first line... certainly above all the Lucas film top credits

Osmosis Jones

geecee wrote: »

Another very annoying thing that I just remembered is that the tribute "for our Princess" came pretty late into the end credits... for me it should have been the first line... certainly above all the Lucas film top credits

Yeah I actually didn't see it at all, would've liked it at the start of the movie before the opening crawl but there's probably some licensing stuff that says they can't do that.

Although

I do feel it was very deliberate the the first character shown in the movie is Carrie Fisher's daughter

Gbear

I just remembered the scene where they make Rey's character development swim into focus.

I wrote it off as a glib callback to before but it shows exactly what she should be:

She just lifts some rocks. That's her role. She didn't run out to Kylo and chop him to bits. She went to look for her friends. And lifted some rocks.
And saved all their lives.

Tony EH

Well, that was just odd.

Some thoughts...

It has some good moments, but over all the film is dragged down (way down) by some truly bizarre choices in "comedy" (that's usually unwelcome) and a dreadful (and quite mind boggling) shift in tone that occurs throughout the running time.

Rey is proabably better used in this, but Finn is still wretched and Poe is just annoying. Hux was, again, laughable and that fat Asian girl was drivel. What the hell was she even in the film for? (yeh I know, Asian money )

The subplot on Canto Bight was largely terrible, with completely unnecessary set pieces and a woefully constructed scenario.

That whole fuked up "horse race" could have been cut entirely...awful stuff in both concept and execution - rather like the Rathtars scene in 'The Force awakens'.

Speaking of awful scenes

Leia and her ridiculous space walk was both cringeworthy and astonishing. Why was that inserted? She simply could have been injured on the bridge, without the absurdity of her surviving space and flying back to the ship. :eek: Dreadful stuff and again, completely unnecessary.

The Kylo/Rey scenes were well done and offered some relief from the disasterous parts and the Luke/Rey scenes in Kerry were fine too. They played out much better than I thought they would. Probably the best scenes were reserved for Snoke's throne room. But

doing a Darth Maul and killing off Snoke, just as he got interesting was a poor choice.

The worst thing is, is that it never really feels like it's part of Star Wars at all.

Again, Disney have given us a Star Wars film that's just ok in places and (quite needlessly) awful in others. There's a good film in there trying to get out, perhaps even a great film. But, you can see commitee decisions (hello Rose) and just flat out director mis-steps aplenty that stymie the whole project.

That whole ending mini-sequence? WTF was that?

Despite the RT score (which is meaningless) and the generally positive reviews, the overwhelming audience reaction from both Star Wars fans and the GA seems to be "disapointing" and I'd have to echo that. It also doesn't fill me with any hope for Johnson's upcoming trilogy either.

Somebody else said that this film would benefit from a fan edit and I think that's correct. It may be possible to recut the film and excise some of the worst parts (mainly involving Finn AGAIN) and salvage something. But, in its present form, I just cannot see myself returning to it as often as I do the original films.

Grayditch

Tony EH wrote: »

and that fat Asian girl was drivel. What the hell was she even in the film for? (yeh I know, Asian money )

That and there are Asian people and some of them are actors.

johnpatrick81

Hmmm, I liked it, but didn’t feel the buzz I got from TFA.

The Poe crank call to Hux was bizarre and a massive fail. Shockingly bad.

I still think Rey’s parents are key, agreed with David75 that Kylo was lying to weaken her. Her being a natural descendent of the force is the only thing for me that explains her abilities. Even Luke says that Ben is the only one who is as natural as her with the powers. Surely not twins?!?

I didn’t mind Kylo getting the better of Snoke, but to then struggle against the red troopers?!? I wanted him to vaporize them. Cool fight yes, made sense after he outsmarted and outpowered the mighty Snoke? Nah.

It was definitely too long. I thought they overdid the Force Skype.

The camel race thing was awful and definitely more Harry Potter Phantom Menace.

Disappointing all in all. You would have to wonder if Disney had too much influence.

Less CGI please!

Jerichoholic

Oh yeah, that crank call was a bit much...

Jayesdiem

I was disappointed. At several points in the movie I felt that I was watching the prequels again with all the bad humour, childish elements and transparent CGI. In TFA we were rightly informed that CGI use would be minimal but it was back to the bad old days of the prequels here. The technology has moved on but you would be forgiven for thinking it hadn't.

The determination to tick every single diversity box is jarring also. Here it's done in a Noah's arc style in which they seem to need one (or two) of everything. One girl, one boy, one white, one black and so on. They are trying way too hard on this and it is unnecessary. It's interesting that this only ever applies to the good guys. Every bad guy ever is a Caucasian male. Very transparent.

For every scene that had me revelling in the Star Wars universe, and there were more than a few, there was another that sent me right back to 1999. Why did this movie sail so dangerously close to the wind? It wasn't too far removed from 50s diners, cosmic American football and flying taxis. Grease in space. The grittiness of the Mos Eisley cantina is a distant memory.

Also, I was looking at my watch way before the end, satisfied that I'd had my shot of nostalgia but wishing away the umpteenth mindless shooty shooty gun gun space battle.

I rarely attend the cinema anymore, primarily because I have no time for monthly releases of CGI comic book heroes mindlessly jumping around the screen, devoid of any actual purpose (no plot) and using sad, ironic humour. To me, TLJ felt like that but with some familiar Star Wars props.

HandsomeBob

bennyineire wrote: »

Just back from watching it with my 2 young fella's. They though it was great but not as good as R1.

I liked it too, great cinematography and acting for the most part, have to say though I thought

Domhnall Gleeson's portrayal of General Hux was way over the top again (as it was in TFW). I don't think this is his fault as I think he is a fine actor, I'm that's the way he was directed to do it.

I thought Gleeson was great. The character is quite simply a wormy **** prone to tantrums. There's only one way to play that which is over the top. OTT doesn't necessarily mean bad.

homerun_homer

I can’t wait for the novel that will explain why Maz was running around shooting at stuff. :pac: I mean seriously... that bit is awful. And when she mentions the symbol they’ve to look for and it pops up in the corner for them as reference, I don’t care what you say about Star Wars technology in that world but I’m calling shenanigans on that right there.

In regards to the cynical posts about hiring an Asian actress, she’s a newbie who nobody knows. The Chinese market aren’t going to flock in their droves to see this film because she’s in it. If they hired a big, famous Asian actor then you’d be justified in thinking this way, but then at the same time does this mean they should never hire an Asian actor just in case fans call them out on it for those reasons?

HandsomeBob

The "diversity box ticking" was noticeable but not a big deal. We're in a world now that a person with a chip on their shoulder can find offence where there is none and cause major controversy so I don't blame studios for playing it safe.

Rose was fine so I'm not even referring to her. It was noticeable with the extras/red shirts.

metaoblivia

I saw it today and thoroughly enjoyed it. The theater I was in was sold out and the audience in general seemed to love it too. They laughed at the funny bits, gasped at some of the more spectacular bits of cinematography and applauded a few times throughout the film and at the end too.

tony stark

Jayesdiem wrote: »

I was disappointed. At several points in the movie I felt that I was watching the prequels again with all the bad humour, childish elements and transparent CGI. In TFA we were rightly informed that CGI use would be minimal but it was back to the bad old days of the prequels here. The technology has moved on but you would be forgiven for thinking it hadn't.

The determination to tick every single diversity box is jarring also. Here it's done in a Noah's arc style in which they seem to need one (or two) of everything. One girl, one boy, one white, one black and so on. They are trying way too hard on this and it is unnecessary. It's interesting that this only ever applies to the good guys. Every bad guy ever is a Caucasian male. Very transparent.

For every scene that had me revelling in the Star Wars universe, and there were more than a few, there was another that sent me right back to 1999. Why did this movie sail so dangerously close to the wind? It wasn't too far removed from 50s diners, cosmic American football and flying taxis. Grease in space. The grittiness of the Mos Eisley cantina is a distant memory.

Also, I was looking at my watch way before the end, satisfied that I'd had my shot of nostalgia but wishing away the umpteenth mindless shooty shooty gun gun space battle.

I rarely attend the cinema anymore, primarily because I have no time for monthly releases of CGI comic book heroes mindlessly jumping around the screen, devoid of any actual purpose (no plot) and using sad, ironic humour. To me, TLJ felt like that but with some familiar Star Wars props.

Amen!!!! Couldn't agree more

tony stark

metaoblivia wrote: »

I saw it today and thoroughly enjoyed it. The theater I was in was sold out and the audience in general seemed to love it too. They laughed at the funny bits, gasped at some of the more spectacular bits of cinematography and applauded a few times throughout the film and at the end too.

It says a lot about people if they laughed at the "funny" bits in this. As in their taste. Fans of Big Bang theory, friends etc. The humour or oversaturation of it was the divisive move they took. The rest of the movie I could have made work maybe. It's the mainstream of the mainstream. It's just taste I suppose without being patronising. I wasn't expecting curb your enthusiasm but a bit of subtlety. Han Solo for the most part gave us some great funny moments without us being taken out of the movie for the most part.

ads20101

Watched it last night

Loved it!!!

Yes, I few questions I wanted answering weren't, but overall a good solid sw film

faceman

Someone earlier in the thread and was giving out the depiction of Yoda in this being to jokey. Rewatch his scenes in Empire, it’s the same Yoda.

Grayditch wrote: »

That and there are Asian people and some of them are actors.

Tangent story. She’s british. A friend of mine posted pictures on facebook from the London premiere, ball gown and all. I was wondering how she swung that. Turns out Kelly Marie Tran is one of her best friends. Pics were funny. From glitz and glamour on the catwalk to having a curry in my mate’s flat in London after the premiere!

I’m finding this trilogy extremely racist. Racist toward alien characters. There are none! Chewie is just a cameo character. Every other alien is in the background. They even kill off

Snoke

. Although he was becoming a cliche character anyway.

Incidentally the biggest shock for me in this film was the death of

Admiral Ackbar

. We didn’t see it happen and we just get told it.

Also want to see racist discrimation when it comes to employment? He’s held the same rank since Return of the Jedi yet Dameron has flown up through the ranks.

brevity

I'm also looking forward to the red letter media review of this.

I've a feeling Plinkett won't be happy with a few parts.

Jayesdiem

What's with the universally good media reviews? They don't seem to reflect the range of views in here at all. I looked forward to the movie based on it receiving very good reviews and avoided this thread to avoid spoilers. Some here liked the movie, some didn't. The media universally liked it though. Plinkett's review is badly needed to restore balance, no pun intended.