Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

david75

Drumpot wrote: »

The irony is that people say they want something different and then complain about characters or stories not following a very rigid pattern/ark. The original Star Wars had a very unoriginal story but was different because it was set in space. Lucas doesn’t even hide the fact that he followed a very specific story ark that he didn’t create. People like a story they are familiar with, TLJ does not exactly follow the conventional SW flow and is making people uncomfortable.

Characters not being perfect, making bad calls. Heroes been put in their place by minor characters! Minor characters making sacrifices that are visually beautiful but not with emotional impact! A powerful sith being killed by an erratic sith understudy?! ( not like Sith Lords to get killed being over confident!).

I said it already that I was desperate for Lando to be in the casino. I didn’t care much for the thief but don’t feel it took away much from my enjoyment.

I think at some point probably next Year we’ll get a book explaining Snoke and him tempting kylo to the dark side.
Snoke seems to have been involved with Luke and the academy at some point.
How else would he have had contact with Ben?

Luke and Leia and even Han seem to know him or know of him. Let’s see.

Osmosis Jones

Saruhashi wrote: »

I really really hope not because that would kind of legitimize the "she lost the will to live" stuff with Padme in Episode 3.

I'd say it's more akin to Ben allowing himself to die in ANH.

PhiloCypher

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Some of the aliens and indeed robots in this series are absolutely capable of conveying emotion, I agree, and carrying the dramatic weight that comes with it. I mean, for a puppet Yoda is clearly able to express everything from manic joy to wizened calm. He's carried big moments appropriately.

With Ackbar, though, you have a character clearly unable to visually express much in the way of nuance, and has spent much of his screen time spewing out exposition or gag lines. It's the kind of character perhaps better explored in text. It'd be great if he was capable of holding and selling a vital dramatic scene - but, practically, there are obviously massive hurdles. If that makes me an alien racist, so be it

The emotion necessary of the scene could have been expressed through dialogue , with Ackbar saying goodbye to an old friend in Leia .

Drumpot

david75 wrote: »

So was luke about to pass into the force at the end of TFA and Rey interrupted him?
Is this why he’s so cranky with her the whole time? He does say I came here to die.
Every time he wears the white robes in TLJ he’s about to do something extreme. And in the end, does, by passing into the force.

Any thoughts?

I don’t think so. I took it that his passing into the force was balance. He had righted his wrongs (in a way) , confronting Kylo in a consolatory manner and while also help keep the rebels alive (keeping a balance to the conflict).

I thought it was beautifully written.

Osmosis Jones

PhiloCypher wrote: »

The emotion necessary of the scene could have been expressed through dialogue , with Ackbar saying goodbye to an old friend in Leia .

That'd be very ham-fisted, the prequels had that problem where characters couldn't convey any emotion unless they just blurted out how they felt all the time.

david75

Drumpot wrote: »

I don’t think so. I took it that his passing into the force was balance. He had righted his wrongs (in a way) , confronting Kylo in a consolatory manner and while also help keep the rebels alive (keeping a balance to the conflict).

I thought it was beautifully written.

MAybe yeah.

In his last scene he gives a little smile at the twin suns just before he fades.

Man that whole scene. Just so brilliant. Nobody wants him to die but nobody can argue that was perfect. It was just so brilliant.

I don’t think Ahch to has twin suns. I think he’s seeing tatooine in his mind, home , and it’s the first place he’s going to when he passes through.

Tony EH

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

And, tying in with Luke flinging his sabre over the cliff edge, and Kylo imploring Rey to abandon a past she cannot change and embrace a future she can - everything is important...until it's not. Snoke is crucial to the plot...until he's suddenly not.

Luke's chucking of the lighsaber was great, especially on the back of a, frankly, overlong finale scene in TFA. It was handled perfectly and one of the few comic moments that was actually a bit funny.

But, on Snoke, there needed to be something more substantial going on there. As said earlier, we don't even know what git wanted, or why people are even following him. He's just there.

Drumpot

david75 wrote: »

I think at some point probably next Year we’ll get a book explaining Snoke and him tempting kylo to the dark side.
Snoke seems to have been involved with Luke and the academy at some point.
How else would he have had contact with Ben?

Luke and Leia and even Han seem to know him or know of him. Let’s see.

Yeh, I don’t think it’s necessary to know anymore about Snoke but I would be interested in a back story. That’s what I consider the extended add ons (comics), a bonus not a requirement.

Sad Professor

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Idea behind the Leia scene is absolutely fine, I'm sure it sounds great in writing, it just looks dumb.

Also watching her float out there when it looked like she was going to die I was only thinking of the quote from Carrie Fisher saying how she wants her obituary to read she was "drowned in moonlight" which is exactly how the scene looked.

Yeah but Star Wars has never been afraid of being dumb. I remember watching ROTJ as a child and the Emperor, his behaviour, and the shooting lightening bolts from his fingertips seemed incredibly dumb. Weirdly enough I don't even think about it when I watch the film now.

Arne_Saknussem

david75 wrote: »

MAybe yeah.

In his last scene he gives a little smile at the twin suns just before he fades.

Man that whole scene. Just so brilliant. Nobody wants him to die but nobody can argue that was perfect. It was just so brilliant.

I don’t think Ahch to has twin suns. I think he’s seeing tatooine in his mind, home , and it’s the first place he’s going to when he passes through.

You're taking the piss with all this **** right?? :pac:

TerrorFirmer

david75 wrote: »

I don’t think Ahch to has twin suns. I think he’s seeing tatooine in his mind, home , and it’s the first place he’s going to when he passes through.

That's what I was thinking too. For a brief moment in his minds eye he is back on Tattooine, and remembering how the great adventure began so long ago - and reflecting on how his last act in allowing the rebels to escape almost mirrors the final sacrifice of Ben Kenobi.

david75

I reckon jj is going to go in hard full Star Wars for 9.

It would echo nicely the OT. ROTJ is just ANH redone broadly speaking.

I don’t think he’ll remake ROTJ but he’ll definitely bring it back into a format we know.

Or maybe not.

Saruhashi

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Fair, I read it as you being "one of those" rather than mocking them

Nah. I'm actually in favor of the First Order being exclusively white guys as that's how the Empire was portrayed originally.

I actually think in the old republic books there was something about the Sith being a bit "racist" too. Not 100% sure.

It feels like a genuine problem for mainstream movies and TV going forward as the cultural conversation around race and gender starts to seep into fiction and people start to analyse fiction through that lens.

In the Star Wars universe there is NO deeper meaning to the races and genders of characters but it seems like audiences are actively looking for that.

I would have been interested to see Poe and Finn do the casino adventure bit with maybe a hint of some kind of romantic relationship but the truth is it would have likely overshadowed all conversations about the movie.

Tony EH

Saruhashi wrote: »

Nah. I'm actually in favor of the First Order being exclusively white guys as that's how the Empire was portrayed originally.

I actually think in the old republic books there was something about the Sith being a bit "racist" too. Not 100% sure.

Don't think the Sith are. But, it was definitely part and parcel of the Empire. Part of their gig was going around various planets and treating undesirables, who didn't look like them, as underlings.

"Where are you taking this thing?"

david75

The empire only ever was comprised of humans. With one exception. Thrawn. Palpatine was basically a racist.

We’re retro fitting a modern Political narrative to that simply because it’s a hot topic these days . Rightly or wrongly

Sad Professor

david75 wrote: »

I reckon jj is going to go in hard full Star Wars for 9.

It would echo nicely the OT. ROTJ is just ANH redone broadly speaking.

I don’t think he’ll remake ROTJ but he’ll definitely bring it back into a format we know.

Or maybe not.

I really think Johnson has forced him to take a different direction. It would take serious effort to make 9 a ROTJ-rehash now. Easier to just pick up where Johnson left off. I still expect him to play it fairly safe, though.

david75

Sad Professor wrote: »

I really think Johnson has forced him to take a different direction. It would take serious effort to make 9 a ROTJ-rehash now. Easier to just pick up where Johnson left off. I still expect him to play it fairly safe, though.

Deffo. He’s had a blank slate forced in him. But I think he’s got an executive producer credit on TLJ so he wasn’t unaware of the decisions being made and has already presented Disney with his pitch for 9.

So anyone thinking they don’t plan these things out should take comfort from that.

Hector Savage

david75 wrote: »

I think at some point probably next Year we’ll get a book explaining Snoke and him tempting kylo to the dark side.
Snoke seems to have been involved with Luke and the academy at some point.
How else would he have had contact with Ben?

Luke and Leia and even Han seem to know him or know of him. Let’s see.

Sometimes I think they make these rash decisions as all the best theories have been put up on the net by fans so the writers can't use them.
Thats the downsize of the net , its great to discuss things and some theories are really cool - but it then rules them out for a part in the real story.
Look at the explanation of the smoke monster in Lost - some great theories online and they went with complete ****e , cos it was never discussed online.
Same could be said about Harry Potter.

Im convinced Snoke was supposed to be Plageuis (he still could have been of course).
There was too much hints he was.
His theme music being identical to the music in III when Palpatine was discussing him.

Ren referring to Snoke as "the wise" ....

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

I reckon jj is going to go in hard full Star Wars for 9.

It would echo nicely the OT. ROTJ is just ANH redone broadly speaking.

I don’t think he’ll remake ROTJ but he’ll definitely bring it back into a format we know.

Or maybe not.

Yeah. He'll go back to the same format.

Hux will have built some kind of superweapon for Supreme Leader Ren.

I'd imagine some encounter between Rey and Ben early in the movie where she loses badly.

Finn and Poe destroy the superweapon.

Then Rey brings it back around at the end. I do not think Ben will be redeemed but will die like the Emperor, finally ending the first order.

80+ on Metacritic. Viewer rating 7.2.

(wouldn't be surprised if the movie opens on Leia's funeral)

Finn and Rose and Poe and Rey will all live happily ever after...

...for 30 years. Then Episodes X, XI and XII will take a dump on their characters and kill them off.

Praetorian

I went to an Imax showing on Saturday morning with my 5 year old and my two brothers. I was incredibly excited, heart pounding, happy with glee like your a kid again level of excitement.

I came away very disappointed.

I thought it was incredibly badly edited. 15 minutes minimum could've been shaved off and some scenes for me were the wrong way around.

The intro was boring.

"Spunk" is not a Star Wars word. How the hell did that make it into the film. Why not just say "spirit", or something.

Luke, saying the words, "laser Sword", and the way he said it, was like he was making a joke of the whole Star Wars Universe.

As much as I like Gleeson, I thought Hux in this film was poor, perhaps it was his script, or his delivery, but I did not enjoy his character remotely.

I would have been happy enough with Leia dying in space. Now they have to kill her again some how in the last episode, possibly with some dodgy human CGI.

Luke dying the way he did was terrible. That new force power was silly and how would Kylo not seen through it.

Rose was utterly boring. I would have been happy enough with Finn saving the rebels with his kamikazy run and dying.

Luke living another day to complete Rey's training would have been better.

The slowest chase scene ever was so incredibly stupid.

I could go on and on and on, that's the sad part.

I have to admit I didn't love the force awakens the first time I saw it and have honestly grown to love it as I've watched it (now 5 times). The same with Rogue one, it's gotten better each time.

I must go into these movies with too high expectations.

I'm not a massive fan of JJ, but I think he did a very good job all things considered. I'm happy he's back for episode 9.

david75

Praetorian wrote: »

I went to an Imax showing on Saturday morning with my 5 year old and my two brothers. I was incredibly excited, heart pounding, happy with glee like your a kid again level of excitement.

I came away very disappointed.

I thought it was incredibly badly edited. 15 minutes minimum could've been shaved off and some scenes for me were the wrong way around.

The intro was boring.

"Spunk" is not a Star Wars word. How the hell did that make it into the film. Why not just say "spirit", or something.

Luke, saying the words, "laser Sword", and the way he said it, was like he was making a joke of the whole Star Wars Universe.

As much as I like Gleeson, I thought Hux in this film was poor, perhaps it was his script, or his delivery, but I did not enjoy his character remotely.

I would have been happy enough with Leia dying in space. Now they have to kill her again some how in the last episode, possibly with some dodgy human CGI.

Luke dying the way he did was terrible. That new force power was silly and how would Kylo not seen through it.

Rose was utterly boring. I would have been happy enough with Finn saving the rebels with his kamikazy run and dying.

Luke living another day to complete Rey's training would have been better.

The slowest chase scene ever was so incredibly stupid.

I could go on and on and on, that's the sad part.

I have to admit I didn't love the force awakens the first time I saw it and have honestly grown to love it as I've watched it (now 5 times). The same with Rogue one, it's gotten better each time.

I must go into these movies with too high expectations.

I'm not a massive fan of JJ, but I think he did a very good job all things considered. I'm happy he's back for episode 9.

You probably won’t believe me but I left my first viewing feeling the same. Gutted and traumatised.

I loved it a whole lot more second and third time round when the brilliant bits in it really land.

PhiloCypher

david75 wrote: »

I think at some point probably next Year we’ll get a book explaining Snoke and him tempting kylo to the dark side.
Snoke seems to have been involved with Luke and the academy at some point.
How else would he have had contact with Ben?

Luke and Leia and even Han seem to know him or know of him. Let’s see.

I would imagine Snoke was less hands on in corrupting Ben then Palpatine was with Anakin. We know from TLJ that Snoke is a master at manipulating people from afar . So I doubt he actually met Kylo in person until after he had fallen and wiped out the jedi academy. I'd imagine he just entered his dreams and nudged him in the right (wrong) direction.

Osmosis Jones

We've kind of seen in TLJ that it wasn't all Snoke that corrupted Kylo, but also partly the fact that he thought his uncle was trying to murder him in his sleep.

PhiloCypher

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

That'd be very ham-fisted, the prequels had that problem where characters couldn't convey any emotion unless they just blurted out how they felt all the time.

It was ham-fisted because the dialogue was horrible imo

david75

PhiloCypher wrote: »

I would imagine Snoke was less hands on in corrupting Ben then Palpatine was with Anakin. We know from TLJ that Snoke is a master at manipulating people from afar . So I doubt he actually met Kylo in person until after he had fallen and wiped out the jedi academy. I'd imagine he just entered his dreams and nudged him in the right (wrong) direction.

Just for anyone thinking they killed him too early,

One of the cooler ideas was that Snoke isn’t the main big bad.

He’s just an emissary for a much much bigger evil in the unknown regions that is on its way.

That could be the thing in ep 9. It turns up and kylo then wishing he had Snoke back coz his boss is far worse than him and far more dangerous.

Tony EH

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

We've kind of seen in TLJ that it wasn't all Snoke that corrupted Kylo, but also partly the fact that he thought his uncle was trying to murder him in his sleep.

That was another really odd character switch.

Luke Skywalker, the man who wouldn't give up on Darth Vader, decided (even for a moment) to kill his nephew, because of something in his eyes?



People change, I guess.

Drumpot

In terms of Snokes demise, you could nearly argue that it was very similar to Palpatine.

Palpatine knew the entire rebel fleet was coming and yet still remained on the Death Star. Snoke didn’t personally need to follow the last of the rebel ships. There seems to be a “I have to watch my enemies die” Sith gene.

Then Palpatine even states that it’s funny he cannot sense certain aspects of Vader’s relationship or communication with luke. The only difference between this and Kylo/Rey is that Ren doesn’t realize why it’s happening.

Then Kylo (like Vader) uses this relationship or connection , to kill Snoke when it looks like our heroes are defeated! Rey has a choice to join Kylo but rejects him. Vader accepts Luke’s invitation back to the light side.

Arne_Saknussem

Tony EH wrote: »

That was another really odd character switch.

Luke Skywalker, the man who wouldn't give up on Darth Vader, decided (even for a moment) to kill his nephew, because of something in his eyes?



People change, I guess.

And then ran away and left others to clean up the ****storm he created.

Just terrible, lazy writing.

Osmosis Jones

Tony EH wrote: »

That was another really odd character switch.

Luke Skywalker, the man who wouldn't give up on Darth Vader, decided (even for a moment) to kill his nephew, because of something in his eyes?



People change, I guess.

"People change" is pretty much it. It's been 30 years since we've last seen Luke. For what it's worth it was a momentary lapse from him, he wasn't actually going to go through with it. But after that moment it makes sense for him to be so broken and changed.

david75

That whole throne room scene. Just amazing.
Snoke sitting exactly same way on the throne that Joffrey does in GOT wasn’t lost on me.

He’s purely arrogant and oblivious to the ven the notion that kylo could turn on him.

Which is opposite to Palpatine who was always waitin on Vader with Luke in tow, coming to unseat him.