Rafa Benitez sacked

super_furry

StringerBell wrote: »

Whatever about the players, some are fine some are ****, they have definitely got to be in with a great shout for worst fans in the world.

Don't think anyone else comes close. I watched them boo off their own team at half-time as they were winning 4-2 in a game they'd go onto win 10-2.

Agent Coulson

Record
G W D L Win % GF GA GD
25 17 5 3 68.00 69 22 +47

That kind of record gets you fired these days.

The crazy world of football.

StringerBell

Only at one club tbf

rob316

I said it at the time their was no way back losing 4 nil to barca at home.

LiamoSail

mikeym wrote: »

Hes a Madrid man but the fans hated him.

Would Man Utd fans hate a manager who was from Manchester and was in charge of Utd?

No Bloody Way. They would back him to the hilt because hes one of their own.

Real Madrid fans are spoilt rotten brats.

Wait until Ryan Giggs is in charge, see how that pans out with the fans

Look at Ally McCoist at Rangers. Club legend and a Weegie, didn't stop him getting a lot of hate

klose

Lasted about 5 months shorter than i expected, only ever imagined he would last one season and get sacked regardless. Well its a nice pay off for him and cant say being sacked at madrid will dent his cv in any way.
Interesting to see where he ends up next, valencia is a good shout next season as i assume neville wont last any longer than that. After thant who knows.

Flint Fredstone

LiamoSail wrote: »

Wait until Ryan Giggs is in charge, see how that pans out with the fans

Could be waiting a long time.

LiamoSail

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Since the turn of the century


Vicente del Bosque
Carlos Queiroz
José Antonio Camacho
Mariano García Remón
Vanderlei Luxemburgo
Juan Ramón López Caro
Fabio Capello
Bernd Schuster
Juande Ramos
Manuel Pellegrini
José Mourinho
Carlo Ancelotti
Rafael Benítez
Zinedine Zidane

Benitez, Mourinho, Ancelotti and del Bosque have between them won half of the 16 CL titles since the turn of the century. Bizarre to think all were subsequently sacked by Real

jesus_thats_gre

StringerBell wrote: »

His style has not got them scoring bucket loads by the way, they have 47 in the league, 10 of those came in one game (10-2), against a team with 9 men, who had given up and it really is only a team like Madrid who would keep pounding away like that.

Other then that, they have Ronaldo, Benzema, Bale, Rodriguez not to mention the rest and are vastly superior to 95% of the division, I suggest it is quite hard for them not to score, regardless of the manager. They have not been doing anything out of the ordinary in the majority of league games, managed 3 against Las Palmas, 1 against Granada, 3 against Celta Vigo, who also had a man sent off, 2 against Eibar.

They have lost to Sevilla, lost to Villarreal, drawn with Gijon, drawn with 10 man Malaga, drawn with Valencia and most importantly for Madrid fans (other then drawing with A Madrid) they were destroyed at home by Barca, who lets be honest, barring Suarez and Neymar weren't even that good.

It was a ridiculous appointment from Madrids point of view, was never going to work and smacks of a guy being set up to fail to get in the favoured candidate with plenty of goodwill behind him. You cant fault Benitez for taking the job though, who would turn it down?

It was inevitable that the 10-2 victory would be brought up as a means to playing down the fact that they are top scores in La Liga. That would reduce their for tally to 37 - down from 47. That is still only 3 behind that of Barcelona.

You refer to the attacking playings that Real have and use that as another method of playing down the scoring record. In fairness, you are correct, it is a better lineup of players than 95% of the league - with the only exception being Barcelona.

Taking either the 47 goals or 37 goals as the benchmark, their record either best or second best. Given the benchmark is Barcelona, I honestly don't see how anyone can argue that he warrants being sacked. I also don't understand why folk seem to ready to criticise wherever possible or undermine successes.

I know that I am very biased on the subject as I have a major soft spot for him so maybe that is why I can't see it.

jesus_thats_gre

LiamoSail wrote: »

Benitez, Mourinho, Ancelotti and del Bosque have between them won half of the 16 CL titles since the turn of the century. Bizarre to think all were subsequently sacked by Real

An amazing stat the more I think about it.

Laois_Man

Next permanent Chelsea manager??

doc_17

I'd imagine Madrid know no manager would turn them down so I'd suggest there'd be no golden handshake written into any contract they have with a manager.

I really hope that club win feck all ever again.

StringerBell

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It was inevitable that the 10-2 victory would be brought up as a means to playing down the fact that they are top scores in La Liga. That would reduce their for tally to 37 - down from 47. That is still only 3 behind that of Barcelona.

You refer to the attacking playings that Real have and use that as another method of playing down the scoring record. In fairness, you are correct, it is a better lineup of players than 95% of the league - with the only exception being Barcelona.

Taking either the 47 goals or 37 goals as the benchmark, their record either best or second best. Given the benchmark is Barcelona, I honestly don't see how anyone can argue that he warrants being sacked. I also don't understand why folk seem to ready to criticise wherever possible or undermine successes.

I know that I am very biased on the subject as I have a major soft spot for him so maybe that is why I can't see it.

So a 10 goal game against 9 men which skews the stats shouldn't be discussed, because it skews the stats?

They have what you would deem a normal amount of goals this season given the talent they have and the dominance they enjoy in the league surely? If anything they are slightly under par when it comes to the very weak teams.

Its not a sleight on Benitez at all though, more just dispelling any theory that his style has them scoring bucket loads.

I didn't argue for him being sacked or anything like that, maybe you mean somebody else?

Chrissybhoy

Not a man in football is surprised he got the chop. How he got the job was the biggest surprise !

SlickRic

Rafa was a perfect fit for Madrid if they weren't batshít crazy.

He wins things, and he doesn't give a shít whether you're a superstar or not. He'll play the team the way he sees fit (see his refusal to play Gerrard in his favourite position in CM, and end up getting the very best out of him).

But it was a stupid appointment because of the reputation he has, the football he wants to play, and the fact he's not interested in pandering to egos. It was never going to work.

Madrid are obsessed with being this mythical, footballing deity of a club that both wins, and produces the most perfectly picturesque football. It's lunacy.

Many will say the numerous sackings works for them, but does it? Relative to their resources, draw and ambition they don't do anything they shouldn't in terms of success.

They're behind Barcelona in the pecking order in Spain currently. Post Mourinho, the one year Barca didn't win it, Atletico did. Yes, they've won 10 European Cups, but let's be honest, over half of them were the first few European Cups ever, so it's not hugely relative to a discussion about their success or stature now.

I'd argue that sacking managers like they do in this search for perfection isn't really working at all. It's actually kind of stupid and is hurting them. Players can turn on the manager for no good reason, knowing the fans will eventually turn, and the club will just exercise their itchy trigger finger again. It has breeded a bratty mentality within the playing squad and certainly the fans.

A ridiculous club.

The_Kew_Tour

Just watching SSN and Madrid President saying Zidane has their full support and they're right behind him

Ya, until they get beat anyway.

StringerBell

Said that about Benitez less then a month ago iirc

inforfun

Lets see which club falls now for Benitez.

I know the Liverpool fans (most of them anyway) thinks he is god on earth but lets be realistic now. Apart from that freak CL win in Istanbul he hasnt won much.
Everywhere he worked he had lots to spend and the results (and playing style) were piss poor most of the time.

GLaDOS

inforfun wrote: »

Lets see which club falls now for Benitez.

I know the Liverpool fans (most of them anyway) thinks he is god on earth but lets be realistic now. Apart from that freak CL win in Istanbul he hasnt won much.
Everywhere he worked he had lots to spend and the results were piss poor most of the time.

Unfair to ignore his time at Valencia tbf. His more recent record isn't amazing though.

inforfun

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Unfair to ignore his time at Valencia tbf. His more recent record isn't amazing though.

He had enough to spend there as well. Almost left them bankrupt.

But he made his name there for sure. Add that freak cl win and 10 years later he still manages to land top jobs which, based on his results in that decade, he shouldnt even be considered for

Jesus Wept

Won a tenner in it. Made up. Big plans

rob316

inforfun wrote: »

Lets see which club falls now for Benitez.

I know the Liverpool fans (most of them anyway) thinks he is god on earth but lets be realistic now. Apart from that freak CL win in Istanbul he hasnt won much.
Everywhere he worked he had lots to spend and the results (and playing style) were piss poor most of the time.

I'm a Liverpool fan and not a big fan of Rafa but that statement is LOL

Seamu$

inforfun wrote: »

He had enough to spend there as well. Almost left them bankrupt.

But he made his name there for sure. Add that freak cl win and 10 years later he still manages to land top jobs which, based on his results in that decade, he shouldnt even be considered for

Agree that his recent record isn't good, but the CL win can hardly be described as a freak given that he got to another final 2 years later (and a SF the following year).

GavRedKing

Seamu$ wrote: »

Agree that his recent record isn't good, but the CL win can hardly be described as a freak given that he got to another final 2 years later (and a SF the following year).

I think he means that they were 3-0 down at HT and from that point it looked like Milans trophy, hence the freak result.

Speak Now

inforfun wrote: »

He had enough to spend there as well. Almost left them bankrupt.

But he made his name there for sure. Add that freak cl win and 10 years later he still manages to land top jobs which, based on his results in that decade, he shouldnt even be considered for

Rafa gets blamed for a lot but this one is a bit much LOL!


http://armchairsportssociety.com/2015/02/04/amunt-the-fall-and-rise-of-valencia-cf/

inforfun

Seamu$ wrote: »

Agree that his recent record isn't good, but the CL win can hardly be described as a freak given that he got to another final 2 years later (and a SF the following year).

GavRedKing wrote: »

I think he means that they were 3-0 down at HT and from that point it looked like Milans trophy, hence the freak result.

Gav got what i meant indeed. 3-0 behind at HT and still win the final is the freak part.

rob316 wrote: »

I'm a Liverpool fan and not a big fan of Rafa but that statement is LOL

He has won 2 Italian super cups (Mickey mouse trophies really as it is being played in Beijing and the likes, so more demo matches than serious finals) an FA cup with Chelsea and a Coppa Italia with Napoli.
For someone at big clubs with a reputation of a winner, that is really not good enough.
And certainly Inter and Napoli were horrible to watch under his management.
I think he also managed to not make it to the WC for club teams final while at Inter.
That is impressive, to not play the final in the club wc as a CL winner.

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Rafa gets blamed for a lot but this one is a bit much LOL!


http://armchairsportssociety.com/2015/02/04/amunt-the-fall-and-rise-of-valencia-cf/

Ok, so he left them before the financial problems started. But he left because of a lack of spending.
In other words, he could have get them there as well if "his" president had given him the spending he wanted.

Benitez, angered by the President’s refusal to back him in the transfer window, left for Liverpool. In came President Juan Bautista Soler, who promised spending to keep the glory days going. Significant money was spent on Ever Banega, David Villa, Joaquin, Manuel Fernandes, and Stefano Fiore

The_Kew_Tour

Even as United fan, I have to say his record is very good, just below the big 5 or 6.

It's not like he taken the big team in any league when he took over either.

Got to give him credit where it's due too.

Speak Now

inforfun wrote: »

Gav got what i meant indeed. 3-0 behind at HT and still win the final is the freak part.



He has won 2 Italian super cups (Mickey mouse trophies really as it is being played in Beijing and the likes, so more demo matches than serious finals) an FA cup with Chelsea and a Coppa Italia with Napoli.
For someone at big clubs with a reputation of a winner, that is really not good enough.
And certainly Inter and Napoli were horrible to watch under his management.
I think he also managed to not make it to the WC for club teams final while at Inter.
That is impressive, to not play the final in the club wc as a CL winner.


Ok, so he left them before the financial problems started. But he left because of a lack of spending.
In other words, he could have get them there as well if "his" president had given him the spending he wanted.

I thought they won that?


The F.A cup was with Liverpool not Chelsea. He won Europa leagues with Chelsea and Valencia.

Pighead

SlickRic wrote: »

Rafa was a perfect fit for Madrid if they weren't batshít crazy.

He wins things, and he doesn't give a shít whether you're a superstar or not. He'll play the team the way he sees fit (see his refusal to play Gerrard in his favourite position in CM, and end up getting the very best out of him).

But it was a stupid appointment because of the reputation he has, the football he wants to play, and the fact he's not interested in pandering to egos. It was never going to work.

Madrid are obsessed with being this mythical, footballing deity of a club that both wins, and produces the most perfectly picturesque football. It's lunacy.

Many will say the numerous sackings works for them, but does it? Relative to their resources, draw and ambition they don't do anything they shouldn't in terms of success.

They're behind Barcelona in the pecking order in Spain currently. Post Mourinho, the one year Barca didn't win it, Atletico did. Yes, they've won 10 European Cups, but let's be honest, over half of them were the first few European Cups ever, so it's not hugely relative to a discussion about their success or stature now.

I'd argue that sacking managers like they do in this search for perfection isn't really working at all. It's actually kind of stupid and is hurting them. Players can turn on the manager for no good reason, knowing the fans will eventually turn, and the club will just exercise their itchy trigger finger again. It has breeded a bratty mentality within the playing squad and certainly the fans.

A ridiculous club.

I would argue that it was a ridiculous appointment in the first place and he was far from a perfect fit for them. You say he wins things but in the last ten years all he has won of note is a Europa League, English FA Cup and Italian Cup. He hasn't won a league since 2004 and over half way through the season in Spain he lies in third place four points off the lead despite having the most expensive squad in world football at his disposal. He's probably had five or six games against quality opposition so far with Madrid and he's one just one of them (game against PSG). Not great for a supposed top tier manager.

inforfun

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

I thought they won that?


The F.A cup was with Liverpool not Chelsea. He won Europa leagues with Chelsea and Valencia.

Yep..sorry about that. I knew Mazembe, the African CL winner made the final. Thought it was at the cost of Inter.

**** it.... at work. Cant even read my own links properly

Cant get any proper posting done with the distraction of work.

But yeah. What Pighead said.

LuckyLloyd

The list of great 'guaranteed success' managers is much shorter than people think, and in the last three years Madrid had sacked two of them. It's all well and good saying that Benitez 'should never have got the Madrid job', but it's a club who has hired Remon, Luxembergo, Ramos, Schuster and Zidane over the last decade or so. Benitez since 2012:

- won an EL;
- won a Coppa Italia,
- finished 3rd, 3rd and 5th in the EPL and Seria A respectively;

Great? No. Good? Sure. Of managers who were available last summer, do people really think the list of those with superior recent records is so long as to make Benitez a 'ridiculous' appointment?

LuckyLloyd

Pighead wrote: »

and over half way through the season in Spain he lies in third place four points off the lead despite having the most expensive squad in world football at his disposal

Yeah, and the team he's four points behind are nothing like

inforfun

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Great? No. Good? Sure. Of managers who were available last summer, do people really think the list of those with superior recent records is so long as to make Benitez a 'ridiculous' appointment?

We are talking Real Madrid here.
Honestly think almost every manager in the world is available for Real whether or not they still had a contract or wanted a sabbatical or whatever.

Pighead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, and the team he's four points behind are nothing like

Madrid are the biggest club in the world. Under Rafa's watch they lost 4-0 at home to their greatest rivals. He's had six months to close the gap on Barca but he's fallen further behind if anything.

rob316

He managed 2 pieces of Silverware in his Liverpool reign but that doesn't do justice to his reign as Liverpool manager.

Liverpool were the number 1 ranked team in Europe under Rafa, another CL Final, a number of semi finals. They were a European Powerhouse under him.

Sure Liverpool spent a lot of money but he nearly always had to work on a Sell to Buy policy.
He brought players like Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Reina, Agger.

Totally rehauled our youth system, Raheem Sterling was a product of that.

League performance was generally good, we consistently finished in the Top 4, and managed one title challenge.
I do think his generally "hard to beat" style of play is his downfall in the leagues he has managed in, we had a very good chance to win the league in 2009 but his insistence on using 2 holding CM resulted in too many home draws to relegation threatened sides.

Any manager would of struggled to perform under the regime of H&G in the final year, they sucked the club dry.

Give the time and backing to Rafa and he will deliver, he is a top manager, not in the elite but certainly in the Top 10.

rob316

Pighead wrote: »

Madrid are the biggest club in the world. Under Rafa's watch they lost 4-0 at home to their greatest rivals. He's had six months to close the gap on Barca but he's fallen further behind if anything.

Surely you realize this Barca side are outrageously good. Their is no shame to finishing behind them. Perez has bought bad, he doesn't have players the caliber of Neymar or Suarez.

SlickRic

Pighead wrote: »

Madrid are the biggest club in the world. Under Rafa's watch they lost 4-0 at home to their greatest rivals. He's had six months to close the gap on Barca but he's fallen further behind if anything.

Mourinho lost 5-0 to Barcelona. He ended up winning a league trophy during his tenure.

He shouldn't have been hired, but to suggest he was given a fair crack is idiocy.

The players decided they didn't like him. The fans didn't like him from the outset. He was under pressure to play all the stars by many accounts.

It was pointless from the outset.

I wouldn't massively judge Benitez on his Madrid tenure. He's not top tier (as in Pep, Mourinho, Ancelotti), but he's that far down the list of world managers at all.

He's exactly what he was before he took the Madrid job.

niallo27

Pighead wrote: »

Madrid are the biggest club in the world. Under Rafa's watch they lost 4-0 at home to their greatest rivals. He's had six months to close the gap on Barca but he's fallen further behind if anything.

Do you not think any manager should be given at least a season to close the gap. You honestly think 6 months is enough for any manager to come in and turn things around.

Flint Fredstone

rob316 wrote: »

He managed 2 pieces of Silverware in his Liverpool reign but that doesn't do justice to his reign as Liverpool manager.

Liverpool were the number 1 ranked team in Europe under Rafa, another CL Final, a number of semi finals. They were a European Powerhouse under him.

Sure Liverpool spent a lot of money but he nearly always had to work on a Sell to Buy policy.
He brought players like Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Reina, Agger.

Totally rehauled our youth system, Raheem Sterling was a product of that.

League performance was generally good, we consistently finished in the Top 4, and managed one title challenge.
I do think his generally "hard to beat" style of play is his downfall in the leagues he has managed in, we had a very good chance to win the league in 2009 but his insistence on using 2 holding CM resulted in too many home draws to relegation threatened sides.

Any manager would of struggled to perform under the regime of H&G in the final year, they sucked the club dry.

Give the time and backing to Rafa and he will deliver, he is a top manager, not in the elite but certainly in the Top 10.

The flip side to that is he couldn't get the number one ranked team in Europe into Europe not long after. He couldn't get the number one ranked team in Europe to be the number one ranked team in England, often couldn't get them to be the second or third ranked team in England. Cup runs are not the measure of a manager.

Rafa is a decent manager, no more than that. His football is sometimes effective but not all that pretty. Not Madrid material at all.

TheCitizen

Pighead wrote: »

Madrid are the biggest club in the world. Under Rafa's watch they lost 4-0 at home to their greatest rivals. He's had six months to close the gap on Barca but he's fallen further behind if anything.

Barcelona will continue to dominate la liga, sacking Benitez and appointing Zidane won't do anything to change that, not in the short term anyway.

They might have damaged their chances of winning the CL by sacking Benitez though. Benitez has a good record in the CL and EL especially in the knockout ties. Zidane might want to change things and that transition probably reduces their chances of winning the CL this year. They should have made the change at the end of season I reckon, it's not like they were out of the CL with no chance of winning it and miles behind Barca in the league.

LiamoSail

Pighead wrote: »

Madrid are the biggest club in the world. Under Rafa's watch they lost 4-0 at home to their greatest rivals. He's had six months to close the gap on Barca but he's fallen further behind if anything.

Real getting hammered by Barca is hardly a unique event in recent times. Mourinho, iirc, got done 5-0 by them while going back before that, Barca sides with Henry and Ronaldinho beat them heavily too.

What manager in the world has never been heavily beaten by a rival? Everyone from Ferguson to Wenger to Guadiola and Mourinho have suffered this. I wouldn't rank Rafa as in the same bracket as those, but to one bad result against a side that have just won the treble, with arguably the best front line ever in football, is a bit much IMO.

I do agree however that his appointment was doomed to failure. I think his style suits an underdog more than an established power, hence his success in cups and with the likes of Liverpool and Valencia

Pighead

niallo27 wrote: »

Do you not think any manager should be given at least a season to close the gap. You honestly think 6 months is enough for any manager to come in and turn things around.

Generally yes but sometimes there is an air of inevitability about a managers position and there's no point in prolonging the agony. A bit like Roy Hodgson's time at Liverpool.

GavRedKing

rob316 wrote: »

Totally rehauled our youth system, Raheem Sterling was a product of that.

Going to be pedantic but Sterling is a QPR youth product first and foremost, rest of your post is good though and I agree with pretty much all of it.

I had no issue with Rafa with Chelseam he was brought in to do a job, it could have been better but he won us a EL, got us to the Semis in the League cup and I think a QF in the Fa cup and finished 3rd, losing the CWC though was a thing that really annoyed me about his tenure.

He was never going to get the fans onside, dont think he cared either, it was a job for him to propel himself back into the lime light and worked well for both parties by and large.

LiamoSail

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

The flip side to that is he couldn't get the number one ranked team in Europe into Europe not long after. He couldn't get the number one ranked team in Europe to be the number one ranked team in England, often couldn't get them to be the second or third ranked team in England. Cup runs are not the measure of a manager.

Rafa is a decent manager, no more than that. His football is sometimes effective but not all that pretty. Not Madrid material at all.

Not in isolation, but they certainly play a significant part in it. Would Mourinho, Ancelotti or Guadiola be rated anywhere near as high as they are without their CL wins? Failure in cup competitions is the only reason why Guadiola is not universally considered a success at Bayern while a greater degree of success in Europe would have made Ferguson without a doubt, the most successful manager of all time. I think by his own admission, he considered three finals to be a poor return.

I'd argue that cup runs are significant in judging a manager

GavRedKing

LiamoSail wrote: »

Not in isolation, but they certainly play a significant part in it. Would Mourinho, Ancelotti or Guadiola be rated anywhere near as high as they are without their CL wins? Failure in cup competitions is the only reason why Guadiola is not universally considered a success at Bayern while a greater degree of success in Europe would have made Ferguson without a doubt, the most successful manager of all time. I think by his own admission, he considered three finals to be a poor return.

I'd argue that cup runs are significant in judging a manager

Fergie was 4 finals and 2 wins though was he not? 50% win rate isnt shabby, especially when 2 of those losses were against possibily the greatest club side to play the game.

LiamoSail

GavRedKing wrote: »

Fergie was 4 finals and 2 wins though was he not? 50% win rate isnt shabby, especially when 2 of those losses were against possibily the greatest club side to play the game.

Sorry yea, you're right, four finals.

My point was that he won only two CL titles in about twenty attempts at the competition. I'm absolutely not belittling what Ferguson achieved, just arguing the point over how an ability to win cup ties contributes to the judgement of a manager

niallo27

Pighead wrote: »

Generally yes but sometimes there is an air of inevitability about a managers position and there's no point in prolonging the agony. A bit like Roy Hodgson's time at Liverpool.

I would agree if Madrid were out of the CL and down near the relegation zone but they were doing very similar to recent seasons. It just seems like every manager there is doomed to fail. What manager would actually last there.

dogbert27

It's a huge risk by Zidane to take this on. He is heavily invested in the club with his four sons all playing at under age level.

What will happen when eventually everything turns sour and he's given the same treatment as Del Bosque, Ancelotti and Benitez.

He was having a great time managing the B team with no expectations on him, all his kids involved in the club, hailed as an icon where ever he went.

He'll lose it all come the end of the season, unless his tactical planning is to tell the team do whatever ye like just don't complain about me to the press.

Flint Fredstone

LiamoSail wrote: »

Not in isolation, but they certainly play a significant part in it. Would Mourinho, Ancelotti or Guadiola be rated anywhere near as high as they are without their CL wins? Failure in cup competitions is the only reason why Guadiola is not universally considered a success at Bayern while a greater degree of success in Europe would have made Ferguson without a doubt, the most successful manager of all time. I think by his own admission, he considered three finals to be a poor return.

I'd argue that cup runs are significant in judging a manager

League wins are the bread and butter, CL wins will propel you to greatness on top of that but if you don't have the base of the domestic league success it won't count for as much. Ferguson is still considered to be in the running for GOAT even with only 2 wins in such a long career.

I'm not dismissing CL wins at all but Fergie's 2 CL wins came with a league win and one was a treble. Rafa's came with an unheard of 5th place finish in the league. A couple of league wins with Liverpool instead of his European successes, added to his time at Valencia would have made his career look a lot better for me.

LuckyLloyd

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

League wins are the bread and butter, CL wins will propel you to greatness on top of that but if you don't have the base of the domestic league success it won't count for as much. Ferguson is still considered to be in the running for GOAT even with only 2 wins in such a long career.

I'm not dismissing CL wins at all but Fergie's 2 CL wins came with a league win and one was a treble. Rafa's came with an unheard of 5th place finish in the league. A couple of league wins with Liverpool instead of his European successes, added to his time at Valencia would have made his career look a lot better for me.

But what argument are you trying to win here? I've not seen anyone on this forum try and argue that Benitez is in the same bracket as Ferguson, Mourinho, Heynkes, etc.

Benitez is a good manager who has enjoyed a generally solid career. When you consider the amount of top level clubs around Europe and the World and all the managers who have passed through them during the past twenty years it isn't hard to see Benitez as in the 99th percentile in terms of success. The vast majority of managers fail at the vast majority of clubs without ever winning a top level honour.