Parking space responsibility

proozie

I rent an apartment and sometimes my parking space is encroached upon by the car using the space beside mine, making it difficult or impossible to fit into my space. I have asked my landlord to see what can be done, but the management agent responded saying that the directors of the management company maintain that parking disputes between residents should be sorted out between themselves.

This seems like a bit of a cop out to me and I'm just wondering where the responsibility actually lies. Ideally the landlord would sort it all out but if I press the issue or threaten to leave over it, I feel like I'd be on the fast track to a rent increase or a lease term change. I don't know if the other residents are tenants or own their place.

I have already made the resident, landlord, and management company aware of the issue but they still on occasion park improperly. I feel like I'm a very weak position - what's the best course of action to take here?

Butters1979

I can't see what the landlord could do against another tenant or owner, it's not really anything to do with them. Did you say you have already explained to this other person they are blocking your parking and they continue to do it? If so then it's pretty out of order. They're trespassing on your property (although rented). Report them every time they do it.

traprunner

If your apartment car park has a clamping company to deal with illegally parked cars then get onto the clamping company. Once clamped they will be unlikely to encroach again.

proozie

Yes, I've said it to the person already and they keep doing it, almost like they're too lazy to bother parking properly if the space beside them is free. Unfortunately there's no clamping in place and the management company seem pretty lax about the parking situation, solidified by them saying parking issues between residents have to be sorted out between themselves. So even if I report it nothing can/will be done (apparently) but surely there must be some responsibility somewhere? I'd prefer not to go down the avenue of blocking the car in or parking incorrectly myself as this could lead to escalation and them potentially scratching my car etc.

Butters1979

Well if you've tried to be reasonable and he still does it then you need to escalate it. I wouldn't do something like blocking him in, then you're also in the wrong.
He is trespassing and obstructing your property. I would report it to the police. I know it seems a bit petty but it's breaking the law and you've tried the more reasonable path.

Paulw

Butters1979 wrote: »

He is trespassing and obstructing your property. I would report it to the police.

They won't get involved in a parking dispute, and frankly, you are wasting their time.

Maybe time for another conversation with your neighbour - "Sorry, I think I may have bumped your car since it was parked so close to mine, and if you parked properly that wouldn't happen". Just make sure that you didn't touch their car in the first place. It may just get the point across to them that by their bad parking, they may leave themselves open to having their car bumped by you getting in/out of your space.

Butters1979

Paulw wrote: »

They won't get involved in a parking dispute, and frankly, you are wasting their time.

Maybe time for another conversation with your neighbour - "Sorry, I think I may have bumped your car since it was parked so close to mine, and if you parked properly that wouldn't happen". Just make sure that you didn't touch their car in the first place. It may just get the point across to them that by their bad parking, they may leave themselves open to having their car bumped by you getting in/out of your space.

It's not as parking dispute like out on the street. It's trespassing. I know it's petty and the Gardaí aren't gonna break out the armed response unit, but it's a genuine complaint and they will at least contact the offender. It's also your only option if you can't convince the guy to stop it.

Paulw

Butters1979 wrote: »

It's not as parking dispute like out on the street. It's trespassing.

If you want to get technical, it's not trespassing. The parking spaces, most likely, are common area. They are "owned" by the management company, and the space in use is licensed to the unit owner. So, the resident has permission to use the common area parking. The lines are not a legal divide between parking spaces. They are simply lines in a common area.

The Gardai will not, in any way, get involved.

wrt40

Why not put some parking cones down on your side of the line?

RainyDay

Butters1979 wrote: »

It's not as parking dispute like out on the street. It's trespassing. I know it's petty and the Gardaí aren't gonna break out the armed response unit, but it's a genuine complaint and they will at least contact the offender. It's also your only option if you can't convince the guy to stop it.

No, they won't. It is on private property, so the Gardai have no role in how or where you park on private property.

Butters1979

Paulw wrote: »

If you want to get technical, it's not trespassing. The parking spaces, most likely, are common area. They are "owned" by the management company, and the space in use is licensed to the unit owner. So, the resident has permission to use the common area parking. The lines are not a legal divide between parking spaces. They are simply lines in a common area.

The Gardai will not, in any way, get involved.

Sorry, I do not want to get involved in a back and forth with you, as it's not helping the OP.


But it is trespassing. The OP does not own it, but the OP does not need to own it for it to be trespassing. The person parking over it does not own it nor do they have a right to park there. Therefore they are trespassing on private property owned by someone without permission to park there.

Also, It is obstructing the persons quality of living. If the offender has been asked to stop doing it and continues, it can be construed as harassment. The Gardaí most likely will dismiss it initially, but this is due to disinterest and/or “priorities”. But should, and if pressed, will get involved as it is genuine civilian complaint with potential to escalate. I wouldn’t confuse Gardaí disinterest with what they are technically obliged to intervene in. After this we can agree to disagree as it’s you opinion against mine really.

For OP, the idea about the cones above actually sounds good to me. If they are genuinely doing it out of laziness or just really bad at parking, this could help avoid the issue all together.

RainyDay

Butters1979 wrote: »

Sorry, I do not want to get involved in a back and forth with you, as it's not helping the OP.


But it is trespassing. The OP does not own it, but the OP does not need to own it for it to be trespassing. The person parking over it does not own it nor do they have a right to park there. Therefore they are trespassing on private property owned by someone without permission to park there.

Also, It is obstructing the persons quality of living. If the offender has been asked to stop doing it and continues, it can be construed as harassment. The Gardaí most likely will dismiss it initially, but this is due to disinterest and/or “priorities”. But should, and if pressed, will get involved as it is genuine civilian complaint with potential to escalate. I wouldn’t confuse Gardaí disinterest with what they are technically obliged to intervene in. After this we can agree to disagree as it’s you opinion against mine really.



For OP, the idea about the cones above actually sounds good to me. If they are genuinely doing it out of laziness or just really bad at parking, this could help avoid the issue all together.

The Gardai have no role in a dispute about private property. You might as well call them because your other half leaves the toilet seat up or pulls the bed covers over at night.

proozie

I've thought about the cone thing but to be honest my dealings with the person leads me to believe they would try to accuse me of damage to the car brought around by a cone being blown or knocked into the car (I've no idea where I would stand legally on this). Similarly the implication I might damage the car would more than likely not be intimidating enough and probably end up using it against me down the line.

Paulw

Take plenty of photos of their incorrect parking, over multiple dates. Send them to your landlord. Only the landlord has a contract with the management company. So, get the landlord to chase the management company and have them talk to the offending individual.

Other than that, it's a civil dispute between two people.

intheclouds

Can the management company assign you a different parking space?

wrt40

proozie wrote: »

I've thought about the cone thing but to be honest my dealings with the person leads me to believe they would try to accuse me of damage to the car brought around by a cone being blown or knocked into the car (I've no idea where I would stand legally on this). Similarly the implication I might damage the car would more than likely not be intimidating enough and probably end up using it against me down the line.

A cone blowing over in the wind is unlikely to cause damage or any legal action against you. you tried to be nice and he's being a dick. He'll get the message quick enough.

deandean

Are the two parking spaces a reasonable size? I've seen two spaces squeezed in between pillars where no matter how you park, the two cars are gonna be too close for comfort.

alias no.9

Are they encroaching on the line or crossing it? Is it the drivers side or passengers side that's beside your space?

Marcusm

proozie wrote: »

I rent an apartment and sometimes my parking space is encroached upon by the car using the space beside mine, making it difficult or impossible to fit into my space. I have asked my landlord to see what can be done, but the management agent responded saying that the directors of the management company maintain that parking disputes between residents should be sorted out between themselves.

This seems like a bit of a cop out to me and I'm just wondering where the responsibility actually lies. Ideally the landlord would sort it all out but if I press the issue or threaten to leave over it, I feel like I'd be on the fast track to a rent increase or a lease term change. I don't know if the other residents are tenants or own their place.

I have already made the resident, landlord, and management company aware of the issue but they still on occasion park improperly. I feel like I'm a very weak position - what's the best course of action to take here?

Next time they're out, park across both spaces. Tit for tat is silly but if you've asked politely without success, childishness might be your only hope.

andekwarhola

Feel your pain, but the management company can't do anything about it, save speaking to them.

It's a domestic issue unfortunately.

It's not trespassing technically AFAIK. As said, it's a common area owned by MC and allocated to residents.

If they refuse to stop doing it after you've informed the landlord and the MC, I know what I'd do but I can't say it here.

the_syco

Paulw wrote: »

Maybe time for another conversation with your neighbour - "Sorry, I think I may have bumped your car since it was parked so close to mine, and if you parked properly that wouldn't happen"

The OP shouldn't admit to something that they didn't do, in case the other person has gotten their car hit elsewhere.

RainyDay

andekwarhola wrote: »

Feel your pain, but the management company can't do anything about it, save speaking to them.

That's not true - they could do something about it if they wished, but they are choosing not to. They could choose to implement clamping for bad parkers, but they are choosing not to - perhaps for cost reasons or whatever. But ultimately, they are the only ones who could actually do something.

andekwarhola

RainyDay wrote: »

That's not true - they could do something about it if they wished, but they are choosing not to.

Hypothetically speaking, anybody here could drive over to your estate and have a word with your neighbour about their inconsiderate parking. Doesn't mean we'd have a leg to stand on or could do anything about it.

You're overestimating the power that the MC has to adjudicate in domestic disputes. The only thing they could really do is write to them and ask them to be more considerate but it wouldn't do any good.

No MC board wants to get bogged down in internecine fights like that and why should they. They are only there to oversee the safety of the development, keep it solvent and pay for the services.

Our estate had to put clamping to an AGM vote before they could bring it in, and even then it was for non-payment of fees, which is is a direct breach of MC contract, not really comparable to a spat about inconsiderate parking. Also I would assume 'bad parking' punishment is for more serious stuff like double or dangerous parking (where you are blocking emergency access or service vehicles) and so on.

Having a word, forceful or otherwise, with the neighbour or telling the landlord would definitely be your best bet here.

RainyDay

andekwarhola wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, anybody here could drive over to your estate and have a word with your neighbour about their inconsiderate parking. Doesn't mean we'd have a leg to stand on or could do anything about it.

You're overestimating the power that the MC has to adjudicate in domestic disputes. The only thing they could really do is write to them and ask them to be more considerate but it wouldn't do any good.

No MC board wants to get bogged down in internecine fights like that and why should they. They are only there to oversee the safety of the development, keep it solvent and pay for the services.

Our estate had to put clamping to an AGM vote before they could bring it in, and even then it was for non-payment of fees, which is is a direct breach of MC contract, not really comparable to a spat about inconsiderate parking. Also I would assume 'bad parking' punishment is for more serious stuff like double or dangerous parking (where you are blocking emergency access or service vehicles) and so on.

Having a word, forceful or otherwise, with the neighbour or telling the landlord would definitely be your best bet here.

Yes, I agree that the OPs first port of call would be talking to the neighbour and/or the landlord. And yes, I agree that clamping would be a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

But it is more than a domestic dispute. The OP is paying for a parking space and not getting it.

Pat Mustard

I've heard of a couple of these disputes.

In one dispute, neighbours were turning a blind eye to their visitors parking in another person's parking space. When the relevant neighbours could be tracked down, they were usually contrite and willing to arrange to have the offending vehicles moved. However, it was not always possible to track down the relevant neighbour so this led to an intermittent and frequently fruitless door to door hunt, to have these vehicles moved. This was very inconvenient, of course.

There were excuses, nods, smiles and apologies from the neighbours but nothing changed.

One day, the aggrieved parking space owner/licensee started blocking in the cars that wrongfully occupied his space. The neighbors began to call to his door to ask him to move his car so as to allow the visitor to leave his space. He would oblige, of course.

Very soon, the parking problems melted away, almost as if they had never existed in the first place.

There is no doubt that blocking in another person's car is wrong. And while I could not condone such action, I think that it is interesting to see how matters resolved in this instance.

I will be clear about one thing. I am not suggesting that the OP should block in the offending car. What I am saying is that it is too convenient for the neighbour to park carelessly. If a way can be found to make it inconvenient for him to do so, he may alter his behaviour.

Citizenpain

Try this maybe

Pat Mustard

I once saw a car parked really badly in a hotel car park, over the white line into the neighbouring space.

There was an angry note on the windscreen, to the effect of:

"Next time leave a ****ing tin opener so that the person next to you can get into their ****ing car."

proozie

I've already talked to the neighbour and landlord - the landlord asked the management company who said they can't (or won't) do anything, and the neighbour just ignores me.

I'm surprised to hear that there's not more of an onus on the management company to take responsibility for this. Surely the terms of the parking license are being broken by the other resident in which case the license could be rescinded and it would become a trespassing matter if they continue to use it, and also my landlord's license is not being granted fully since the allocated space is not available? Would there not be some clause to not cause any annoyance to other residents of the block?

It's a bit frustrating that my best option is to go tit-for-tat and block off their space and hope they get the message at how annoying it is. My only other option seems to be to force my landlord into doing something to deliver on something that was promised (potentially would need to bring a civil case against the other resident), which will obviously strain relations with my landlord.

Toots

Does the other resident own their apartment or is it a tennant? If it's a tennant it could be worth trying to track down their landlord and make a complaint.

the_pen_turner

how about some kind of bollard or soft pole that could be bolted down .

athtrasna

the_pen_turner wrote: »

how about some kind of bollard or soft pole that could be bolted down .

That would be classed as vandalism of management company property. The MC owns the car park.