Employee disputing holidays

screamer

Max is 4 weeks 20 days leave per year plus bank holidays.
Do not engage with the wife data protection nightmare. Engaging her only fuels her on to be a pain in the ass.

BTW I'll add an anecdote for you place I worked once married woman went off on a weeks work assignment so she told her husband. There was some family emergency and she couldn't be contacted so he came into the office to ask her manager to please call the client so that he could speak with her.
Manager has to say sorry she's not working shes on weeks holiday and she was with her bit on the side
You don't know what goes on behind closed doors so only deal with the EE on this

Mrs OBumble

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I don't see whats wrong with suggesting to him that he could take counselling, not as a manager but as a concerned person. He is quite clearly in an abusive relationship. Maybe he is so brow beaten he can't see it? Maybe a few words of outside advice might make him see he is in desparate situation with her controlling his every penny?

Why is noone really acknowledging the fact that he is being abused? I can tell you, if the genders were reversed and some nutty husband was quizzing and controlling the wifes wages then there would be a different reaction.

I agree that he's being abused. And maybe his friends or colleagues could suggest to him that he should get counselling.

But his manager should only be talking to him about his workplace performance. If the abuse is affecting his performance (eg making him unwilling to engage with an office staff member), then his manager can request him to address the performance and perhaps suggest that counselling is an option. But if his performance is fine, then the manager has no grounds to suggest it.

If you move away from managing workplace performance to managing your employees lives overall, you are opening up a whole can of worms - especially if your management of their lives has different outcomes from what the employee wants.

Chemical Byrne

I get you MrsOB but if the EE and OP have a good personal relationship, is there anything to be said for him having a personal chat with him saying that he couldn't help but notice his situation and he's concerned for his wellbeing with the whole carry on of his wife etc? A man-to-man chat rather than a manager-to-employee talk if you will. The holiday thing is only one facet of her emotional/financial abuse. Who knows what goes on in private.

Again, if a female employee was being manipulated and controlled by a possessive bf or husband people would be rallying to support her. This "who cares, that's his problem attitude is typical" of the subtle misandry in society as a whole.

I know a guy whose demon gf (now ex) was so manipulative and controlling that she ended up controlling all his money and prevented him from seeing his family. To have a few quid for himself he had to set up a secret account after a raise and unbeknownst to her, kept only the raise for himself while letting the pre raise amount go into her account. He also used to be "working weekends" from time to time when in reality he was secretly going off home to spend time with his family. This chap was the nicest, kindest guy you can imagine. Unfortunately too much so and it nearly broke him. After a few years he decided enough was enough and kicked her loser arse to the kerb! He is infinitely happier now.

But hey, who cares if this poor man is going through something similar, we'll just turn a blind eye, right?

Jonti

Nothing to do your employees wife, she is not your employee and as such has no say in anything to do with your and her husband's employment details and emoluments.
Ignore her gestures and call her husband into the office and have a chat with him regarding her contact regarding his holiday entitlements.
Show him your findings regarding his holiday entitlements and ask him to agree/not agree the outcome and tell him to inform his wife to cease harassing your staff.

Stheno

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I get you MrsOB but if the EE and OP have a good personal relationship, is there anything to be said for him having a personal chat with him saying that he couldn't help but notice his situation and he's concerned for his wellbeing with the whole carry on of his wife etc? A man-to-man chat rather than a manager-to-employee talk if you will. The holiday thing is only one facet of her emotional/financial abuse. Who knows what goes on in private.

Again, if a female employee was being manipulated and controlled by a possessive bf or husband people would be rallying to support her. This "who cares, that's his problem attitude is typical" of the subtle misandry in society as a whole.

I know a guy whose demon gf (now ex) was so manipulative and controlling that she ended up controlling all his money and prevented him from seeing his family. To have a few quid for himself he had to set up a secret account after a raise and unbeknownst to her, kept only the raise for himself while letting the pre raise amount go into her account. He also used to be "working weekends" from time to time when in reality he was secretly going off home to spend time with his family. This chap was the nicest, kindest guy you can imagine. Unfortunately too much so and it nearly broke him. After a few years he decided enough was enough and kicked her loser arse to the kerb! He is infinitely happier now.

But hey, who cares if this poor man is going through something similar, we'll just turn a blind eye, right?

Mod: Stop the speculation and get back on topic.

Bandana boy

Years ago I worked in a place where expenses where paid once a month .All signed off expenses had to be with payroll by the 16th to be paid on the 28th.
A colleague of mine did not get his in on time , and must have told the Wife it was a company problem rather than he was late.
She ran the payroll team and F$%ded and blinded them from a height , accused them of putting them in penury and that she was going to sue the company etc
Stated she would be down that afternoon to collect a cheque .
It really wasn’t a big deal getting paid the expenses when you were late as a one off and if he had asked Payroll they would have helped him out. He did not find out for 3 years that his wife had been in contact and how she had behaved , although most of the company talked about it behind his back during that time !

haveringchick

ConfusedBossMan wrote: »

"I cant see the logic of OP getting involved in what could potential be a relationship dispute."
I'm getting involved with a hours dispute more than anything else.

"ask him to provide the maths on why she thinks he deserves more"
She's been asked. Nothing came back.

"you shouldn't have to deal with a third party when it comes to your employees and their finances/holidays etc."
True, but then again we've been fine with dealing with her in the past. I know that our staffer isn't the best at maths, so meh, whatever works.

"I would also sit down with him to see if maybe he is hiding some days off from her. "
Oh no, hell no. I've been down that road (personally), damned if i'm going down it professionally. *Son, here be dragons*

"I'd also suggest you let your employee know that he must communicate with the office. Very unprofessional of him not to tbh and not something that would have been accepted in any job I've been in."
This is something we've been struggling with. He's good at what he does, and his work rarely sees him come anywhere near the office anyway. I know that's a crappy excuse for tolerating it.

"Worst she can do is make a formal complaint to workplace relations"
And here we have the crux of the issue (for me anyway). We don't have bugger all issues with this, and i've heard many horror stories of Kangaroo employee relations courts from others in the industry. I'd really rather resolve everything before it get to that point.

"I think you first need to find someone to verify that your numbers are correct"
This is probably the silver bullet i need.

If she makes a complaint to workplace relations the first thing they do is send you a copy of her complaint to give you a chance to respond
Your response would be to forward a copy of his time sheets for 2015 2014 showing hours worked and annual leave and public holidays taken
There are no kangaroo courts
Lots of employers don't respond to the complaint and don't turn up to the hearing and then cry foul when they are found guilty

bisset

If a man was contacting his wife's workplace about her holiday or pay entitlements it would be catagorised as controlling behaviour and would be seen as an indicator of domestic abuse. Has the husband given written permission for you to discuss these matters with her? Whatever way this gets resolved it seems that someone in your organisation should do some training in HR legislation.

stargazer 68

OP IMO you do not need anyone to verify your calculations are correct as your employee - who you have a contract with - has not questioned his leave entitlement. If and only if he does then you can work it out. All you need to do is tell the wife you will have no more dealings with her on the issue and if he has a problem then you are happy to sit down with him and discuss it.

Lux23

haveringchick wrote: »

If she makes a complaint to workplace relations the first thing they do is send you a copy of her complaint to give you a chance to respond
Your response would be to forward a copy of his time sheets for 2015 2014 showing hours worked and annual leave and public holidays taken
There are no kangaroo courts
Lots of employers don't respond to the complaint and don't turn up to the hearing and then cry foul when they are found guilty

She can't make a complaint as she isn't his employee, the whole thing is really very sad. The poor man, I only hope he is up to something naughty.

Mrs OBumble

bisset wrote: »

If a man was contacting his wife's workplace about her holiday or pay entitlements it would be catagorised as controlling behaviour and would be seen as an indicator of domestic abuse.

Yes, it would be an indicator.

But so what. There is no requirement on employers to report domestic abuse (of people of any gender), or to advise employees about aspects of their personal life that don't impact on their workplace performance.

And it's actually dangerous for employers to stray into advising employees abotu things that are none of their business.

Chemical Byrne

:^
True, there is no legal obligation for anyone to to do anything where there is suspicions of abuse, whatever form it may take. However, I do think that there is a moral obligation to offer advice someone who is being abused.
But only if the abused is a woman of course,:rolleyes:

groovyg

Op you should never have engaged with his wife full stop. You could land yourself in whole heap of problems with data protection. This information should be between you and the employee, if he doesn't want to call into the office because he has issues with another staff member that needs to be addressed too.

haveringchick

Lux23 wrote: »

She can't make a complaint as she isn't his employee, the whole thing is really very sad. The poor man, I only hope he is up to something naughty.

You complain via an online form which is submitted electronically
There's nothing to stop her from making the complaint
She obviously has all his employment details at her fingertips

Arbiter of Good Taste

OP has the employee himself actually queried the hours? If not, then why are you wasting time checking and double checking calculations? She has no more right to query this than the man on the moon.

And what the hell are you doing engaging with her in the first place???

phildenny

I know lots of men who would say that they are " no good with figures" and are happy to let the "missus" deal with all that. In fact, lots of them would not have any clue about tax, holidays etc. and don't want to know either. Maybe that's the case here?