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What happened at Clerys

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    #62
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    RainyDay wrote: »
    How would closing at a particular time be considered 'allowing the concessionaires to take the case' when closing at a different time is NOT considered to be 'pocketing the cash'? You can't have it both ways. THis was clearly orchestrated to take money that was due to the concessionaires into the receivership in a very sneaky and underhand way.

    The more you write/post the more you reinforce the view that you have no idea. You misunderstand everything, and have an inabiity to have a basic comprehension of what is written. I never wrote that the concessionaires could 'take the case'. Also your use of the words "pocketing the cash" are plain daft, as that portion of the cash outside of the terms of the Trust was an asset of the company being liquidated, not of the shareholders (given the shortfall). You really are making a fool of youself, now go away and educate youself on liquidations and the duties of a liquidator. As far as I'm concerned, the OP's question has been answered, the legal position, whether unsavoury or not, is clear.
    My people skills are good, but when dealing with idiots I have difficulty and usually get infracted. I'm out of here.


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    #63
    pedronomix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭pedronomix


    Are you claiming that the takings were not lodged in the normal way and then taken under control of the court appointed liquidator? Do you have evidence?


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    #64
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    as that portion of the cash outside of the terms of the Trust was an asset of the company being liquidated, not of the shareholders (given the shortfall).
    The cash only became an asset of the company when they collected it. They clearly timed the liquidation around the planned collection of cash. The could have had the decency to time it for an hour earlier, and leave the concessionaires with the cash to pay for their own stock and their own staff.


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    #65
    pedronomix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭pedronomix


    Oh dearie me, more drivel, the cash became an asset when it was taken in from the customers, not when it was removed from the registers etc.

    I am out too, as I prefer proper fairy tales!


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    #66
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »

    From the limited amount of information we do know, there is a trust agreement between the store operators and the concessionaires. It is obvious to anyone who has even a remote idea of how a trust receipt operates and how these agreements are drafted that the funds in the tills are held by Clerys. That is for a very good reason – Clerys deducts from those funds whatever concession fees are due. There are several possibilities as to why it should not be done, least of all is a general one - allowing the concessionaires to take the cash in the till could be construed as fraudulent preference, as there would be no hope of recovering the sums due from the concessionaires to distribute to the other creditors.

    I recall one of the concessionaires on the radio just after the closure setting out a different position - that the cash in the tills was legally their money, and was passed in trust to Clerys for security reasons only. Have you seen the concessionaire agreement?


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    #67
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    RainyDay wrote: »
    I recall one of the concessionaires on the radio just after the closure setting out a different position - that the cash in the tills was legally their money, and was passed in trust to Clerys for security reasons only. Have you seen the concessionaire agreement?
    Under the terms of their contracts with OCS, this money was to be held in trust and paid to the concession holders once a month minus the commission fee due to Clerys for rent, heating, security and other costs.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/clerys-concession-holders-owed-up-to-3m-1.2250599


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    #68
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,414 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    I had a quick look around the Clerys sales outlet shop on Parnell st and it's no wonder they closed, judging by the stock! Just very dated, dare I say "old man" stuff.
    I guess the worst stuff probably went in here, the saleable stuff back to the suppliers perhaps. I've called in a few times as I was passing and bought nothing.


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