Bedding a CZ 455 Evolution

RossiFan08

So I am thinking of glass and pillar bedding my CZ 455 Evolution and after a good bit of research I have some questions.

1. For normal stocks you centre the barrel in the channel with even amounts of tap around the barrel to create a centred free float. However for the CZ 455 Evolution this is not possible due to the type of stock present. Any suggestion on an alternative approach?

2. Is there any disadvantages of doing the two jobs separately (ie glass first then pillar)

3. How difficult is it drilling out the stock? I am planning using a hand drill and a piloted counter bore tool. how likely is a non square hole when not using a press?

4. What is the best pillar material. I have access to a workshop so they can be what ever l like. Or would only a world class shooter notice any difference when it comes to material used?

5. Planning on using JB Weld (Unless someone else has had better results with something else). How long should l leave it cure?

Sorry I can not post pictures, Boards.ie won't let me as a new user

Cass

Before i answer anything i just want to make it clear i'm not a gunsmith so this is my own opinion from what i've done and seen. Someone may have a better or more professional answer.

RossiFan08 wrote: »

1. For normal stocks you centre the barrel in the channel with even amounts of tap around the barrel to create a centred free float. However for the CZ 455 Evolution this is not possible due to the type of stock present. Any suggestion on an alternative approach?

Afraid i don't have the experience or expertise to address this. Howeevr i would say that due to the fact the Evolution stock does not necessarily need centralised due to the shape of the stock i focus on the action. However the barrel does come "up" along the stock channel a small bit so focus on trying to centralise it here.

2. Is there any disadvantages of doing the two jobs separately (ie glass first then pillar)

Not really. In fact it might be better to glass bed first as once this is done (and done right) the action is squared and set correctly which takes the "guess" work out of the pillar bit.

However ask yourself do you need to glass bed at all. Would pillar bedding not do on it's own?

3. How difficult is it drilling out the stock? I am planning using a hand drill and a piloted counter bore tool. how likely is a non square hole when not using a press?

It's not easy. The smallest imperfection can cause a sloping of the pillar and cause the action to either be under pressure/at an angle or miss the action altogether.

I'd suggest putting a serious amount of time into squaring the stock. Whether this is done via a gun vise and pillar drill or something similar is up to you.

4. What is the best pillar material. I have access to a workshop so they can be what ever l like. Or would only a world class shooter notice any difference when it comes to material used?

I used JB Weld, but that was because of the price and availability of Devcon 10110. This is regarded as one of the better epoxy to use.

5. Planning on using JB Weld (Unless someone else has had better results with something else). How long should l leave it cure?

As above for the material, but i left mine for between 11-12 hours (overnight essentially) and it set perfectly.

Here is a good video by Ziggieire. It's for a centre rifle, but the premise is the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh3CAVdImoc

RossiFan08

Cass wrote: »

Afraid i don't have the experience or expertise to address this. Howeevr i would say that due to the fact the Evolution stock does not necessarily need centralised due to the shape of the stock i focus on the action. However the barrel does come "up" along the stock channel a small bit so focus on trying to centralise it here.

From what I have read people glass bed the entire evo stock right up to where the stock ends so I wont be able to centralise it there . would a jig designed (clamps for the stock and two v blocks for the barrel to sit in) to hold the barrel centred in the stock work or would this introduce stress and defeat the purpose of the bedding?

Cass wrote: »

Not really. In fact it might be better to glass bed first as once this is done (and done right) the action is squared and set correctly which takes the "guess" work out of the pillar bit.

I think I would be happier doing it this way as there is less to do at once. And if it helps with the pillars, all the better.

Cass wrote: »

However ask yourself do you need to glass bed at all. Would pillar bedding not do on it's own?

From what I have read the glass bedding is worth doing for the 455, not sure if its worth it with the evo stock. But I plan on doing my 223 rifle too so this would be a good practise run as if I mess up the 223 would be difficult to get a new stock for it as it has poor aftermarket support.

Cass wrote: »

It's not easy. The smallest imperfection can cause a sloping of the pillar and cause the action to either be under pressure/at an angle or miss the action altogether.

I'd suggest putting a serious amount of time into squaring the stock. Whether this is done via a gun vise and pillar drill or something similar is up to you.

I had a feeling this would be the answer. Would take a bit more work but I think in the end it would be worth getting it set up right in a pillar drill and doing it right the first time. Would put me at ease having it done right.

Cass wrote: »

I used JB Weld, but that was because of the price and availability of Devcon 10110. This is regarded as one of the better epoxy to use.

As above for the material, but i left mine for between 11-12 hours (overnight essentially) and it set perfectly.

Heard of Devcon 10110 before from other posts, I will try get my hands on some if not though I will stick to the JB Weld.

Any suggestions to the metal I should use for the pillars?

As always Cass thanks for the great help.

Cass

RossiFan08 wrote: »

From what I have read people glass bed the entire evo stock right up to where the stock ends so I wont be able to centralise it there .

Does the barrel of the rifle not come out for an inch or two into the stock before the stock "falls away". If so then anyone bedding right up to the end of the stock is bedding part of the barrel too. not the end of the world but if your plan is to accurise the rifle by bedding the action you don't want the barrel bedded, even partially bedded, and should look to have it fully floated.

would a jig designed (clamps for the stock and two v blocks for the barrel to sit in) to hold the barrel centred in the stock work or would this introduce stress and defeat the purpose of the bedding?

I have to repeat that this is only my opinion. Please don't do anything until you consult a professional.

It could work, but as you'd be measuring the gaps, distances, etc. you're relying on numbers rather than how the barreled action sits in the stock. Stress could be a factor so thread carefully.

From what I have read the glass bedding is worth doing for the 455, not sure if its worth it with the evo stock. But I plan on doing my 223 rifle too so this would be a good practise run as if I mess up the 223 would be difficult to get a new stock for it as it has poor aftermarket support.

On the 223 or any rifle of such a higher caliber or longer ranged rifle, bedding (glass & pillar) is definitely worth it. However for a CZ (either it's a 22 or .17 hmr) i don't know.

Glass bedding provides a solid base for the action which helps reduce any stresses on the action if it sits in a timber stock only. However pillar bedding does the same job, just in a slightly different way.

If it were straight forward, as in the video, i'd say go for both, but with the difficulties in centralising the barrel perhaps pillar bedding only may be the way to go. I know glass bedding can be done, but you'd need to speak to someone that has done it, see if they done the action only or to the end of the stock, and then go from there.

Any suggestions to the metal I should use for the pillars?

Aluminium.

Remember NOT to use smooth pillars. You need them notched, etched, etc. so the bedding can get a firm grip.

As always Cass thanks for the great help.

Not sure how helpful i'm being, more so bouncing ideas back and forth.

clivej

On the 3 rifle I have bedded I used Devcon 10110, it's rated as the best to use.
A Sako 75 308, CZ 452 varmint, and my 10/22

do 2 jobs .... Pillar first then bed. I used 6mm aluminum tube from B&Q for the pillars.

See this thread from a few days back for links
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057541565

RossiFan08

Cass wrote: »

Does the barrel of the rifle not come out for an inch or two into the stock before the stock "falls away". If so then anyone bedding right up to the end of the stock is bedding part of the barrel too. not the end of the world but if your plan is to accurise the rifle by bedding the action you don't want the barrel bedded, even partially bedded, and should look to have it fully floated.

You're right but for some reason people have found with full stocks that glassing the entire stock improves accuracy. I think I will do 1 to 1.5 inches in front of the action and see how that works and if I want I can go further again. For whatever reason other people seem to bed nearly the whole stock when doing the 455. Which kind of surprised me

Cass wrote: »

It could work, but as you'd be measuring the gaps, distances, etc. you're relying on numbers rather than how the barreled action sits in the stock. Stress could be a factor so thread carefully.

On any 223 or any rifle of such a higher caliber or longer ranged rifle, bedding (glass & pillar) is definitely worth it. However for a CZ (either it's a 22 or .17 hmr) i don't know.

Glass bedding provides a solid base for the action which helps reduce any stresses on the action if it sits in a timber stock only. However pillar bedding does the same job, just in a slightly different way.

If it were straight forward, as in the video, i'd say go for both, but with the difficulties in centralising the barrel perhaps pillar bedding only may be the way to go. I know glass bedding can be done, but you'd need to speak to someone that has done it, see if they done the action only or to the end of the stock, and then go from there.

This is really the only thing that would keeping me from doing it, don't want to ruin a lovely rifle. But I would like to try it for the practice before doing the 223

Cass wrote: »

Aluminium.

Remember NOT to use smooth pillars. You need them notched, etched, etc. so the bedding can get a firm grip.

Aluminium sounds good. Will bang some lovely ones out on the lathe with some groves and knurling.

Cass wrote: »

Not sure how helpful i'm being, more so bouncing ideas back and forth.

Sure that is half the fun with doing this kind of thing

clivej wrote: »

On the 3 rifle I have bedded I used Devcon 10110, it's rated as the best to use.
A Sako 75 308, CZ 452 varmint, and my 10/22

do 2 jobs .... Pillar first then bed. I used 6mm aluminum tube from B&Q for the pillars.

any particular reason to do pillars then glass? Also where do you source your Devcon 10110 from?

Cass

RossiFan08 wrote: »

For whatever reason other people seem to bed nearly the whole stock when doing the 455. Which kind of surprised me

That is an odd one. #i've never seen anyone bed the entire stock as it's pointless. By that i mean once the action, and only the action, is bedded and if done correctly then the barrel should be fully floated. So the bedding on the rest of the stock is kinda superfluous.

It might, and i can only speculate as i've never seen it done, add to the rigidity of the stock allow for better positioning when firing off a bipod and such stuff.

clivej

RossiFan08 wrote: »

any particular reason to do pillars then glass? Also where do you source your Devcon 10110 from?

Search Internet for the Devcon, got mine in the US.

I would suggest you do a lot of research on what your trying to do and achieve before you start. The reason I say this is that your not sure of what your doing

Pillar and Bedding are 2 separate modifications. Some ppl will just put in pillars, others will just bed. Of course the best is to do both. BUT perhaps not at the same time.
Did you read through on how I did my Sako 75?? There you will read and see why I found it best to pillar first.

Read all this from someone that knows what they are doing
http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html

RossiFan08

clivej wrote: »

Search Internet for the Devcon, got mine in the US.

I would suggest you do a lot of research on what your trying to do and achieve before you start. The reason I say this is that your not sure of what your doing

Pillar and Bedding are 2 separate modifications. Some ppl will just put in pillars, others will just bed. Of course the best is to do both. BUT perhaps not at the same time.
Did you read through on how I did my Sako 75?? There you will read and see why I found it best to pillar first.
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Just so I am not confusing myself or anyone else when i refer to bedding I mean glass bedding and pillars I mean pillar bedding

I feel like I have done a good bit of my homework on the matter but I am not completely there yet hence the reason for the tread. I understand the theory behind both jobs (pillars removes shrinkage/enlargement of wooden stocks and ensures constant torque. Bedding ensures a prefect match of action and factory stock) and how both jobs help to improve consistency.

What i am unclear about is the different approaches people use to bed/pillar. Some examples I noticed:

1. Bedding before pillars or pillars before bedding or all at the same time (Unfortunately I could not find in your post why you did pillars first)
2. You mentioned in you're Sako post that used 6mm ID tubes as they were the same size as you're action screws however I have seen other people say that there should be a sufficient gap such that the pillars do not touch the screws which would result in stress
3. When bedding Ziggie mentioned not to use the screws but rather tap the action to the stock whereas you used the screws

Would I be right in saying that bedding/pillars are a bit like cleaning a gun. Everyone has their own method which works, it is just how the do it and there is no "right" way of doing it?

I apologize if this comes off a bit aggressive or directly attacking you. I in no way mean it to be as I know how helpful you are from your other posts

So I suppose my question in the end is, should I pick an approach, start to finish, so I know what I am doing and get my hands dirty?

clivej

Rossifan08 your grand. I'll try to explain the way and thoughts on what I did.

Why did I bed my rifle. It was shooting great anyway, but I got a notion to pillar bed that just wouldn't go away. I researched, read, and looked at vids until I had an idea of what to do. By the way I'm good with my hands and can visualize what something will look like, in 3D, when it's finished. Doesn't always work out correct but most times it does. i only have small hand tools to use. Hand drill, Aldi dremel + attachments, gun vice (most important), clear clean work area.

First thing your only dealing with a .22lr so recoil is small

Pillar first why?
So that you don't have to much going on at the same time. Once the Devcon starts to go off the less you have to do in one go is better IMO.
I measured the depth of the existing holes with a digital calipers using the bit that sticks out the end and cut the ali tube to length with a tube cutter to keep square. Drilled out the existing action holes bigger than the ali tube to take the Devcon 10110. I used shoe polish to stop the Devcon sticking to parts = Trigger guard, action, screws etc.
Mix the Devcon up, put on the ali tube and in the hole, put the tubes in the holes. Put the trigger guard back and screw the action back into the stock Leave to cure 16 -24 hours.
Now take the action off again. You have a perfect set of pillars set into the stock, the pillars are against the trigger guard and action. One job completed.


Bedding.
Remove some of the timber from the stock with a Dremel where the main parts of the action touch, a few millimeters, this will fill up with the bedding compound. fill all unwanted holes, magazine well, that you don't want the Devcon to get into. Mask off everything where the Devcon is not to go or touch upon, Mask off all areas on the stock as well. Think ahead here
Polish the action and screws.
Mix up the Devcon, put into the stock and on the action put back together and screw up, just enough now. Remove excess with nail varnish remover while still wet. Leave to cure for 16 - 24 hours and hope it all comes apart again.

And that's just the quick over view for you. All I can say is think ahead of the next step before you do it. The last thing you do is mix up the compound to start.

RossiFan08

A bit like yourself I have gotten it into my head that I want to bed the rifle (will also be nice to practise for the next one on the list).

clivej wrote: »

Pillar first why?

I think there may have been a mix up between us here. I would have to agree with you about not doing too much at once and so I always planned on doing the two jobs separately but I was wondering is there any reason to do one before the other. It appears there isn't so I think I will do pillars and then glass bedding.

clivej wrote: »

Remove some of the timber from the stock with a Dremel where the main parts of the action touch, a few millimeters, this will fill up with the bedding compound

Did you remove material right into the pillars just like the rest of the stock?

clivej

RossiFan08 wrote: »

.......

Did you remove material right into the pillars just like the rest of the stock?

Yes I exposed the top and sides of the pillars a little. I ended up with a direct contact area from the trigger guard, pillars and the bottom of the action.
I can tighten up the 2 action screws as tight as I need now.

I did the same sort of job on my first Ruger 10/22 as well

I'll just add............

Feel the Fear and do it anyway

.243

RossiFan08 wrote: »

Also where do you source your Devcon 10110 from?

T.e.d in walkinstown dublin