Eurovision Song Contest 2016

Indestructable

Russias song wasn't great vocally nor the lyrics weren't the best either. Maybe the juries looked more at the song itself.

Visually it was spectacular which would explain the popular vote.

maudgone

RedemptionZ wrote: »

The new voting made it pretty intense at the end absolutely no doubt about that. However it certainly made the first part of the voting seem a little irrelevant. Australia ahead by so much only to be taken over like that. Would have worked a lot better imo if there weren't such glaring disparities between the two like Poland jumping up from last place to close to the top of leaderboard. I suppose you'll never get a perfect system.

I went through all the countries voting, and counted up the scores. If you base it on the last few years system of taking the average of the jury and tele voting, Australia come out with 320 and Ukraine only get 279. It doesn't give the same result as you might think. Poland would have finished near the bottom instead of climbing to 8th. Seems to be flawed.
http://eurovisionworld.com/?esc=old-voting-system-australia-would-have-won-eurovision-2016

wil

Skid X wrote: »

I am quite pleased that the After Hours Eurovision thread died on it's arse this year.

Television threads belong in the Television Forum!

Television Forum 4Eva!

There's an After Hours Forum?

wil

Welsh Megaman wrote: »

So, now that the dust has settled...

How do we feel about the new voting system?

System is fine, the results however need a bit of work.

Baby01032012

Does anyone know if there is a repeat of the Eurovision being shown on any channel tonight or this week. Missed final last night and would love to see it?

Welsh Megaman

In case you're interested, here is the full list of songs featured in the '42 Years Of Swedish Music In 4 Minutes' montage, in order...

Blue Swede Hooked on a Feeling
Abba Waterloo
Abba Mamma Mia
Abba Gimme Gimme Gimme
Harpo Moviestar
Secret Service Oh Susie
Herreys Diggi-Loo Diggi-Ley
Murray Head One Night in Bangkok (written by Benny and Bjorn)
Tommy K rberg Anthem (written by Benny and Bjorn)
Yngwie Malmsteen Rising Force
Europe The Final Countdown
Neneh Cherry Buffalo Stance
Bengt ste Rapport
Jarl Alfredius Aktuellt
Roxette The Look
Roxette It Must Have Been Love
Bathory - One Rode To Asa Bay
Electric Boys - All Lips 'n Hips
Rob'n'Raz featuring Leila K Got to Get
Army of Lovers Crucified
Dr. Alban It s my life
Carola F ngad av en stormvind
Dag Volle och Martin Sandberg
Ace of Base All That She Wants
Stakka Bo Here We Go
Peter J back Guldet blev till sand (written by Benny and Bjorn)
E-Type This Is The Way
Leila K Electric
The Soundtrack of Our Lives Instant Repeater '99
Robyn Show me Love
Whale Hobo Humpin' Slobo Babe
Backyard Babies Look At You
Clawfinger Biggest & The Best
Eagle Eye Cherry Save Tonight
N n talar i telefon Vet inte vem
The Cardigans Lovefool
Refused New Noise
Emilia Big Big World
Meja All Bout the Money
Dr. Bombay Calcutta (Taxi Taxi Taxi)
Charlotte Nilsson Take Me to Your Heaven / Tusen och en natt
Andreas Johnson Glorious
Alcazar Crying At The Discoteque
Teddybears STHLM Hiphopper
The Hellacopters By the Grace of God
The Ark It Takes a Fool to Remain Sane
Tityio Come Along
Ceasars - Jerk it out
A*Teens - Halfway around the world
Jos Gonzalez - Heartbeats
The Hives - See the Idiot Walk
Opeth - The Grand Conjuration
In Flames - Alias
Hammerfall - Hearts on fire
Gunther - Ding Dong Song
Arash Boro Boro
Basshunter Now You're Gone / Boten Anna
September - Cry for you
Sabaton Ghost Division
Peter Bjorn and John Young Folks
Teddybears - Cobrastyle
Agnes - Release me
Mando Diao - Dance with somebody
Swedish House Mafia - One
Swedish House Mafia - Don't you worry child
Rebecca & Fiona - Bullets
Avicii - Levels
Laleh Some Die Young
Lykke Li - No Rest For The Wicked
Loreen - Euphoria
Icona Pop - I Love It
Zara Larsson - Lush Life
Yung Lean - Kyoto
First Aid Kit - Wolf
Tove Lo - Habits
Seinabo Sey - Younger
Sabina Ddumba - Not too young
Hammerfall - Hector's Hymn
Ghost - Cirice
Mans Zelmerlow Heroes

XxMCRxBabyxX

maudgone wrote: »

I went through all the countries voting, and counted up the scores. If you base it on the last few years system of taking the average of the jury and tele voting, Australia come out with 320 and Ukraine only get 279. It doesn't give the same result as you might think. Poland would have finished near the bottom instead of climbing to 8th. Seems to be flawed.
http://eurovisionworld.com/?esc=old-voting-system-australia-would-have-won-eurovision-2016

The average system hasn't been used since 2012. The only difference to this years system is how the points were announced.

Strazdas

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Does anyone know if there is a repeat of the Eurovision being shown on any channel tonight or this week. Missed final last night and would love to see it?

Not on TV alas but you can watch it on RTE Player or on the official Eurovision Song Contest channel on Youtube.

Capt'n Midnight

Welsh Megaman wrote: »

In case you're interested, here is the full list of songs featured in the '42 Years Of Swedish Music In 4 Minutes' montage, in order...

Blue Swede Hooked on a Feeling

Hooked on a Feeling ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJQVlVHsFF8

BuilderPlumber

Shawn Michaels wrote: »

I just had the "privilege" of hearing Nicky Byrne's song and reading about his shock at not getting through.

Incredible. The guy can't sing. He was brutal. Typical RTE. Smug and self congratulatory. We get the one guy in Westlife who isn't a good singer and send him off with a bad song.

There it was. Another year, another Eurovision, another Ireland failure. The usual accusations of block voting and the usual boyband flavoured Irish entry! It was no surprise that Nicky Byrne failed to qualify for the final. Perhaps if he did, he'd have come last. For those who actually did come in the last positions, I saw nothing wrong with the Czech Republic and UK songs. On the other hand, this year's Swedish entry did very well but was uncharacteristically poor (the poorest Swedish entry I have seen). But all 26 songs were in my view superior to our entry. Our entry did not feature because no one outside our closed shop media think this boyband style pop is good. Next year, send one of those modern country singers (Derek Ryan or better still, Lee Matthews would be perfect) to sing some dross and sink that whole scene too.

If the media sent something decent over and promoted it, it would do well. Australia, France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Austria all had decent placings and it shows the block voting arguments are exaggerated. Germany may be bottom of the pile this time but they won it a few years back. It proves that any country can win it (recent winners also included Turkey, Greece, Ukraine, Sweden, Denmark, Austria and Finland among others) if they can produce a good song that catches the imagination. The fact that we are sending more or less the same stuff most years means we are considered boring. Gary O'Shaughnessy, MJ Harte, Chris Doran, Ryan Dolan (notice these 2 even have a similar name!) and Nicky Byrne are among the guys who sang more or less the same type of boyband/Westlife type ballad (2 of course also being Westlife: one written by Bryan McFadden and another performed by an ex Westlife singer). The last songs we won with were the opposite to that sound.

Capt'n Midnight

hmmm wrote: »

The problem with the new system is that it will be very obvious that countries with a big diaspora (Russia, Poland and Turkey) will get a huge vote irrespective of what they enter. Unless the EBU can figure out a way to manage this I can see problems down the line.

You reward the portion of the vote both the jury and public agree on. Perhaps double the lower figure where they overlap.

So if both the public and jury agree then the song could get up to 36 points.

But if one gave 12 and the other 8 then the vote would be a 12 and a 16 for the overlap so 28 points.

And if one gave 10 and and the other just 1 then it would be 12 points.

maudgone

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

The average system hasn't been used since 2012. The only difference to this years system is how the points were announced.

This is the first year they used the so called Swedenised system of voting.
http://eurovisionworld.com/?esc=eurovision-2016-change-in-the-voting-presentation

XxMCRxBabyxX

maudgone wrote: »

This is the first year they used the so called Swedenised system of voting.
http://eurovisionworld.com/?esc=eurovision-2016-change-in-the-voting-presentation

That's only the presentation of the votes though. Not the system used to calculate the score. If they had presented the scores as jury and televotes separately, as was being done, the scores and results would still be the same.

Strazdas

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

There it was. Another year, another Eurovision, another Ireland failure. The usual accusations of block voting and the usual boyband flavoured Irish entry! It was no surprise that Nicky Byrne failed to qualify for the final. Perhaps if he did, he'd have come last. For those who actually did come in the last positions, I saw nothing wrong with the Czech Republic and UK songs. On the other hand, this year's Swedish entry did very well but was uncharacteristically poor (the poorest Swedish entry I have seen). But all 26 songs were in my view superior to our entry. Our entry did not feature because no one outside our closed shop media think this boyband style pop is good. Next year, send one of those modern country singers (Derek Ryan or better still, Lee Matthews would be perfect) to sing some dross and sink that whole scene too.

If the media sent something decent over and promoted it, it would do well. Australia, France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Austria all had decent placings and it shows the block voting arguments are exaggerated. Germany may be bottom of the pile this time but they won it a few years back. It proves that any country can win it (recent winners also included Turkey, Greece, Ukraine, Sweden, Denmark, Austria and Finland among others) if they can produce a good song that catches the imagination. The fact that we are sending more or less the same stuff most years means we are considered boring. Gary O'Shaughnessy, MJ Harte, Chris Doran, Ryan Dolan (notice these 2 even have a similar name!) and Nicky Byrne are among the guys who sang more or less the same type of boyband/Westlife type ballad (2 of course also being Westlife: one written by Bryan McFadden and another performed by an ex Westlife singer). The last songs we won with were the opposite to that sound.

A lot of our entries are bland, middle of the road and weak with no "edge". There were some fantastic pop songs in the line up last night but 'fantastic pop song' is not something you'd ever associate with an Irish entry.

It worries deeply me that RTE thought something like Sunlight, which was little more than a radio friendly album filler, would make Europe sit up and take notice, when there was obviously nothing to it, just a bland and generic song that never really takes off.

maudgone

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

That's only the presentation of the votes though. Not the system used to calculate the score. If they had presented the scores as jury and televotes separately, as was being done, the scores and results would still be the same.

http://eurovisionworld.com/?esc=old-voting-system-australia-would-have-won-eurovision-2016
It's all detailed in the link above about this years voting system (Swedenised), and the previous system. If the old system was used Australia would have been the winners.

XxMCRxBabyxX

maudgone wrote: »

http://eurovisionworld.com/?esc=old-voting-system-australia-would-have-won-eurovision-2016
It's all detailed in the link above about this years voting system (Swedenised), and the previous system. If the old system was used Australia would have been the winners.

I stand corrected so. I'd read differently somewhere else though.

sheep?

Strazdas wrote: »

It worries deeply me that RTE thought something like Sunlight, which was little more than a radio friendly album filler, would make Europe sit up and take notice, when there was obviously nothing to it, just a bland and generic song that never really takes off.

Agreed, it's fine, but that's it. Not much in the way of interest. Purely inoffensive, end of story.

How was the song chosen? Did RTE commission a few lads to write it? Or a few tunes and then chose the best?

yerwanthere123

blackcard wrote: »

The cumulative scoring system was exactly the same as previous years

No, it was not.

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Always find it really difficult to make predictions on the night of the grand final.. but I'll give it a go:

1. Russia
2. Australia
3. Ukraine
4. France
5. Armenia

Italy, Bulgaria, Sweden, Latvia & Spain to take position 6-10, although I'm not going to try and speculate in what order. My own personal top three would probably be Bulgaria, France and Russia in 1st, 2nd and 3rd respectively, but that's blatantly not going to happen. All I really want from tonight is for Bulgaris and France not to disgrace themselves. Here's to hoping!

Pretty happy I got 7/10 for top ten, even if I did get the most important results wrong. In hindsight it was silly of me to think Spain would be top ten, I did it purely based on the fact they had jumped up to 3rd place in the bookie odds during the voting.

Extremely glad I got my wish about Bulgaria and France though

Welsh Megaman wrote: »

So, now that the dust has settled...

How do we feel about the new voting system?

I hate it, spent so much time trying to figure out in my head how these would stack up against the public votes.. just too complicated. If it isn't broken don't fix it.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I like it, adds a bit of suspense to the voting.

Ironically, all the recent meddling with the votes has prevented a number of suspenseful finishes in recent years. Both 2011 and 2012 could have went down to the very last vote had it been left to televoting. Azerbaijan beat Sweden in 2011 by just two points, and Sweden beat Russia by eleven points in 2012. Can you imagine the possibility of the incredible Euphoria being beaten by the Russian grannies not being extinguished until the final vote? :eek:

Strazdas

sheep? wrote: »

Agreed, it's fine, but that's it. Not much in the way of interest. Purely inoffensive, end of story.

How was the song chosen? Did RTE commission a few lads to write it? Or a few tunes and then chose the best?

According to Nicky, he approached RTE with the song and told them he would be interested in representing Ireland and they then ran with the idea.

It doesn't say much for their judgement though seeing the eventual result. I'd say they were blinded by the 'Nicky Byrne from Westlife' aspect. Only good thing is that is probably the internal selections knocked on the head and the return of the national final.

BuilderPlumber

Strazdas wrote: »

A lot of our entries are bland, middle of the road and weak with no "edge". There were some fantastic pop songs in the line up last night but 'fantastic pop song' is not something you'd ever associate with an Irish entry.

It worries deeply me that RTE thought something like Sunlight, which was little more than a radio friendly album filler, would make Europe sit up and take notice, when there was obviously nothing to it, just a bland and generic song that never really takes off.

RTE are obsessed with boyband singers for some reason I don't understand. When these singers were in boybands such as Boyzone, Westlife and D-Side, they were promoted non-stop. Then these singers go solo so we get a constant diet of the likes of Ronan Keating, Derek Ryan and, of course, Nicky Byrne. The latter also gets his own radio programme and TV shows too!

BUT while RTE think all these guys are great, the rest of the world do not. The songs of these guys barely register with European audiences and fantastic is not the word to describe them. Bland is indeed a better word. RTE under its current music decision makers will never learn. Future Eurovision entries for Ireland probably will be Derek Ryan, Niall Horan, Lee Matthews, Shane Filan, Ronan Keating, Bryan McFadden or whatever other boyband singer is on hand. And not one of them has got anything special.

yerwanthere123

Meant to post this earlier, it gives a full breakdown and comparison of the result according to the three most previously utilised systems. They're not that different, the only glaringly obvious one being that Australia would have won had they used the 2013-2015 system

http://www.escunited.com/threads/15126-Results-according-to-the-2013-2015-and-2009-2012-methods?p=1614650&viewfull=1#post1614650

yerwanthere123

Dr.MickKiller wrote: »

I don't think we have a chance of doing well until our record is broken. Can-Linn with Kasey Smith was a kick ass song and didn't qualify although it came 2nd in the public vote and last in the judges vote?

God no, it scraped tenth in the televote alright but came thirteenth with the juries.. in a field of fifteen.

Ben Gadot

I thought the standard was surprisingly high this year, I'm actually tempted to buy the album on Google Play.

gourcuff28

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

RTE are obsessed with boyband singers for some reason I don't understand. When these singers were in boybands such as Boyzone, Westlife and D-Side, they were promoted non-stop. Then these singers go solo so we get a constant diet of the likes of Ronan Keating, Derek Ryan and, of course, Nicky Byrne. The latter also gets his own radio programme and TV shows too!

BUT while RTE think all these guys are great, the rest of the world do not. The songs of these guys barely register with European audiences and fantastic is not he word to describe them. Bland is indeed a better word. RTE under its current music decision makers will never learn. Future Eurovision entries for Ireland probably will be Derek Ryan, Niall Horan, Lee Matthews, Shane Filan, Ronan Keating, Bryan McFadden or whatever other boyband singer is on hand. And not one of them has got anything special.

Hahaha there is something so funny about the 'rte elite' fawning over boyband band member after boyband member.

Shurimgreat

Ukraine, Poland and a couple other eastern European nations benefitted massively from the public vote. UK suffers hugely in the public vote compared to the jury vote.

No surprises here really. Worst political voting so far for any Eurovision.

jaykay74

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Worst political voting so far for any Eurovision.

Is it ? Is it not just that it is exposed more by splitting up the jury and public vote so it is now clearer.

Strazdas

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

RTE are obsessed with boyband singers for some reason I don't understand. When these singers were in boybands such as Boyzone, Westlife and D-Side, they were promoted non-stop. Then these singers go solo so we get a constant diet of the likes of Ronan Keating, Derek Ryan and, of course, Nicky Byrne. The latter also gets his own radio programme and TV shows too!

BUT while RTE think all these guys are great, the rest of the world do not. The songs of these guys barely register with European audiences and fantastic is not he word to describe them. Bland is indeed a better word. RTE under its current music decision makers will never learn. Future Eurovision entries for Ireland probably will be Derek Ryan, Niall Horan, Lee Matthews, Shane Filan, Ronan Keating, Bryan McFadden or whatever other boyband singer is on hand. And not one of them has got anything special.

Well RTE have found out to their complete dismay that sending a 'name' is no guarantee of anything. Byrne actually finished three places lower than 17 year old Molly Sterling, and she was in an equally strong semi final. He didn't even come close to getting 12 points from the UK televote, where he has a high profile.

There's too much emphasis on singers, RTE keep forgetting it's a song contest. You really need a knockout song that is capable of charting all over Europe to even get out of the semi final these days, never mind win the thing.

Claire_72

I think we may be better off pulling out of the competition for a year like a number of countries have done in recent years unless theres a good song thats gonna get us through the semis and perform well at the final maybe top 10 finish because it's getting more embarrasing every year our inability to get into the final and just sending artists for the sake of it.

Shurimgreat

jaykay74 wrote: »

Is it ? Is it not just that it is exposed more by splitting up the jury and public vote so it is now clearer.

You are possibly right, but it shows just how influential the political voting is. I thought the Ukraine song was crap being honest. But it had a strong political message.

Lets just forget the singing and have a political debate instead if that's the route we are taking.

The Ukraine song clearly appealed to Russian hating voters around Europe, and Russia suffered because of it.

Forget the public voting and go back to exclusive use of juries. At the end of the day its the fairest way of determining a winner based on merit.

10000maniacs

You can predict a fairly accurate result for the tele-vote result and not even listen to a song. This is why it is important to remove it and go back to juries.
In order to win the Eurovision Song Contest, the parameters in order of importance are

1: Diaspora in other countries eligible to vote. (Poland, Russia, Lithuania etc.)
2: Cultural linkages with other nations in close proximity to you. (Scandinavia)
3: The order of the song on the night.
4: Weighted tele-vote history for the previous 18 years.
5: Stage gimmick and graphical presentation.
6: Song itself.

You have to ask why Poland jumped from second last to sixth when the tele-vote was factored in.
And why do the UK and Ireland continually give the highest votes to Lithuania, Poland and Russia in the tele vote every year?
The tele-vote is also the reason why we don't have a chance of winning ever again.

BuilderPlumber

Strazdas wrote: »

Well RTE have found out to their complete dismay that sending a 'name' is no guarantee of anything. Byrne actually finished three places lower than 17 year old Molly Sterling, and she was in an equally strong semi final. He didn't even come close to getting 12 points from the UK televote, where he has a high profile.

There's too much emphasis on singers, RTE keep forgetting it's a song contest. You really need a knockout song that is capable of charting all over Europe to even get out of the semi final these days, never mind win the thing.

What RTE fail to realise is that the vast majority of people dislike boybands, boyband solo singers and boyfolk country music. Singers like Nicky Byrne, Lee Matthews, Derek Ryan and Eoghan Quigg are a massive turnoff for most people in Ireland let alone further afield. Quigg was a possible Eurovision entry in the past too but did not get beyond our internal vote.

I feel that no effort was made this year. The decision was made to send Byrne over and their ego said his name would carry it. You are right. There was no emphasis on the song and Byrne's song was the poorest in it this year. Characteristically, it was not the poorest song we ever sent. There were quite a few worse ones but the amount of poor entries we have sent outweigh the half decent ones in recent years.

jaykay74

While you can pick up some votes from bloc voting that doesn't explain how Gemany win the thing in 2010 and finish dead last this year. A good song will do well anyway.

BuilderPlumber

gourcuff28 wrote: »

Hahaha there is something so funny about the 'rte elite' fawning over boyband band member after boyband member.

It is telling that since the focus turned to boybands, we have not won the Eurovision. Why RTE fawn over these poor poor boyband singers I don't understand. Singers like Nicky Byrne, Derek Ryan, Lee Matthews, Ronan Keating, etc. and boybands like The Original Rude Boys, Westlife and D-Side cannot sing anything other than boyband pop. Get them to sing jazz, blues, rock, bluegrass, trad or proper country music and they wouldn't have a clue. Whoever is in charge of music in RTE must be braindead. How anyone could listen to the affore mentioned singers and bands is beyond me. They are dreadful.

The convenient excuse for years (and the excuse for RTE's continued obsession with all things boyband) is block voting. Never though is the quality of the song or the singer ever taken into the equation. RTE have become a dictatorship. They force certain bands and singers on us and promote them as the best pop, country, R&B, etc. singers when they are anything but: all they are are boyband singers who cannot sing proper songs. The sole choosing of Nicky Byrne is a case in point: I'm sure there were many other decent singers and songwriters in Ireland who could come up with something decent but RTE would not give them a chance. I am sick of it at this stage and know for sure that our poor placings in Eurovision have mostly to do with the choice of song and singer we send over. As previously said outside of RTE, these singers are not all that popular.

Say Your Number

I mentioned them way, way back on this thread but I think Cruachan would get a top ten finish in the final, they'd have the novelty factor and they've toured Eastern Europe a few times, I'm sure their fanbase over Europe would vote for them.

But even if they were interested I imagine it would be nearly impossible for them to get through our system, I remember Mael Mordha a band in a similar vein were flat out shot down the year Lordi won, we'll probably send more bland safe middle of the road songs for the next few years anyway, maybe there's some truth to that old joke that RTE don't want to host it.

BuilderPlumber

jaykay74 wrote: »

While you can pick up some votes from bloc voting that doesn't explain how Gemany win the thing in 2010 and finish dead last this year. A good song will do well anyway.

The fact that recent winners were from all over the continent explains things. Everyone from Azerbaijan near Iran and the Caspian sea to Finland near the Arctic circle have won it. Other recent winners include Greece, Turkey, Ukraine, Latvia, Austria, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Estonia, Serbia and Russia. That's quite a range of diverse countries.

Sure, there will come a day when Japan, Korea, China, Iran, India, Lebanon and Kazakhstan will be in there too. And New Zealand, the US and Canada. Then, there will still be accusations of block voting when countries of similar ethnicities vote for each other but the quality of the song will more often than not determine how countries do. Ireland will probably keep sending boyband singers more often than not.

Strazdas

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

What RTE fail to realise is that the vast majority of people dislike boybands, boyband solo singers and boyfolk country music. Singers like Nicky Byrne, Lee Matthews, Derek Ryan and Eoghan Quigg are a massive turnoff for most people in Ireland let alone further afield. Quigg was a possible Eurovision entry in the past too but did not get beyond our internal vote.

I feel that no effort was made this year. The decision was made to send Byrne over and their ego said his name would carry it. You are right. There was no emphasis on the song and Byrne's song was the poorest in it this year. Characteristically, it was not the poorest song we ever sent. There were quite a few worse ones but the amount of poor entries we have sent outweigh the half decent ones in recent years.

I'm just thinking that as internal selections go, Byrne's choice was a disaster. Nobody bought into the idea of him being the entrant or thought he would qualify and the song bombed in the charts. In retrospect, Nicky saying that his main aim was to get Ireland out of the semi final was sending out all the wrong signals. We should be sending a song and singer that we think will win Eurovision otherwise why bother even compete? Setting the bar so low is asking for trouble and we'll never even qualify that way, never mind win it.

BuilderPlumber

Say Your Number wrote: »

I mentioned them way, way back on this thread but I think Cruachan would get a top ten finish in the final, they'd have the novelty factor and they've toured Eastern Europe a few times, I'm sure their fanbase over Europe would vote for them.

But even if they were interested I imagine it would be nearly impossible for them to get through our system, I remember Mael Mordha a band in a similar vein were flat out shot down the year Lordi won, we'll probably send more bland safe middle of the road songs for the next few years anyway, maybe there's some truth to that old joke that RTE don't want to host it.

As I have pointed out numerous times, RTE have got it totally wrong with regards to music. Whatever else they do, it is clear they haven't a clue when it comes to music. Look at all the promotion of the worst modern pop and modern country music they do. All these singers are really just boyband singers who RTE seem to owe a living to. The likes of The Original Rude Boys, Derek Ryan, Eoghan Quigg and Nicky Byrne have nothing to offer and they all sing the same old bland tripe.

RTE don't want to support real music. RTE supporting the arts is a complete joke. The amount of dross on Tubridy's show each Friday shows us this. It says it all that Jedward were superior to most things we sent over in the last few years.

Expunge

It seems to me, given RTE's failures to be even competitive or somewhat forward looking in terms of Eurovision for almost 20 years now, it's time to farm this bit of RTE's responsibility out to the Independent sector.

Imagine if this was open to public tender among the Indpendent sector - fresh thinking, no baggage etc.

A guaranteed 3 year term to choose a song and artist and manage how the act will be promoted around Europe as well as how it would appear in the Semis (and hopefully final). Properly financially supported also.
Review after the three years.

RTE are happy to farm out all kinds of other programming to the Independent sector, why not Eurovision responsibility?

Probably because there's too much gravy on that particular train!

10000maniacs

jaykay74 wrote: »

While you can pick up some votes from bloc voting that doesn't explain how Gemany win the thing in 2010 and finish dead last this year. A good song will do well anyway.

https://adriankavanagh.com/2016/05/13/2016-eurovision-final-results-estimate-or-televote-estimate-to-russia-with-love-or-going-to-a-land-down-under/

BuilderPlumber

Strazdas wrote: »

I'm just thinking that as internal selections go, Byrne's choice was a disaster. Nobody bought into the idea of him being the entrant or thought he would qualify and the song bombed in the charts. In retrospect, Nicky saying that his main aim was to get Ireland out of the semi final was sending out all the wrong signals. We should be sending a song and singer that we think will win Eurovision otherwise why bother even compete? Setting the bar so low is asking for trouble and we'll never even qualify that way, never mind win it.

Nicky Byrne was chosen for who he was. RTE chose an RTE employee simple as. It was not the first time RTE sent over one of their handpicked proteges. The You're a Star years was a vehicle for Louis Walsh to select another pop singer and for the likes of Bryan McFadden to write song for them. Jedward were chosen because they were the then in thing with them. Dustin was chosen as he was another RTE internal member. As long as we keep sending out the same old thing, we will never learn or do well. RTE seems to be stuck in a rut and cannot move beyond the approach they take.

Strazdas

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Nicky Byrne was chosen for who he was. RTE chose an RTE employee simple as. It was not the first time RTE sent over one of their handpicked proteges. The You're a Star years was a vehicle for Louis Walsh to select another pop singer and for the likes of Bryan McFadden to write song for them. Jedward were chosen because they were the then in thing with them. Dustin was chosen as he was another RTE internal member. As long as we keep sending out the same old thing, we will never learn or do well. RTE seems to be stuck in a rut and cannot move beyond the approach they take.

Something that has gone unnoticed is that under the rules of Eurosong 2015, Byrne wouldn't have even been allowed compete as RTE employees were forbidden from entering the national final. So the internal selection was a neat and convenient way of getting him on board.

A completely revamped national final would be the way to go, maybe introduce semi finals to get the public really engaged and hold it in a large venue with a big stage.

mansize

I can't see how the Ukraine song was bad.

Regardless of the message I really liked the beat and the singing.

mansize

RTE won't learn any lessons the way they circle the wagons anyway...

Strazdas

mansize wrote: »

RTE won't learn any lessons the way they circle the wagons anyway...

Normally yes, but they can't fail to be aware that every aspect of the 2016 entry was a fiasco. 15th in the semi final is just awful.

geotrig

10000maniacs wrote: »

You can predict a fairly accurate result for the tele-vote result and not even listen to a song. This is why it is important to remove it and go back to juries.
In order to win the Eurovision Song Contest, the parameters in order of importance are

1: Diaspora in other countries eligible to vote. (Poland, Russia, Lithuania etc.)
2: Cultural linkages with other nations in close proximity to you. (Scandinavia)
3: The order of the song on the night.
4: Weighted tele-vote history for the previous 18 years.
5: Stage gimmick and graphical presentation.
6: Song itself.

You have to ask why Poland jumped from second last to sixth when the tele-vote was factored in.
And why do the UK and Ireland continually give the highest votes to Lithuania, Poland and Russia in the tele vote every year?
The tele-vote is also the reason why we don't have a chance of winning ever again.

You could also ask why the Polish song was 2nd last when it was a hugely popular song (i didnt like it but know a few who did enough to vote it their no one)
For me the Ukraine song was a excellent song and a deserved winner , talking about going back to jury voting is nonsence and archaic and doesnt achieve anything ,i felt the the new voting was a good compromise as juries are just as "political" .I dont believe we are not winning over the televoting! none of our songs in the last few years have been good enough to win never mind get someones no one vote.We are sending average songs constantly ,but i think you also have to look at our own charts ,we are not producing enough bands /acts anymore,there is nowhere near as many talented creative acts and most wouldnt preform as its still seen as a stepdown here. Thats where i have to applaud Nicky Byrne.
The whole point of it being a competition is that not everyone is gonna agree on what song is best or deserves to win !

also i watched a presser from before the comp last week (TODAY) Jamala's they where all congratulating here on a great song and preformance , Nicky's was well hows the radio show ...

Shurimgreat

Ukraine won because of bloc voting, no other reason. Average song, average everything. Down the field after the Jury vote, romps home with the public vote. Most of eastern Europe giving two fingers to Russia. Not rocket science.

Time for Ireland to abandon this charade.

10000maniacs

geotrig wrote: »

You could also ask why the Polish song was 2nd last when it was a hugely popular song (i didnt like it but know a few who did enough to vote it their no one)
For me the Ukraine song was a excellent song and a deserved winner , talking about going back to jury voting is nonsence and archaic and doesnt achieve anything ,i felt the the new voting was a good compromise as juries are just as "political" .I dont believe we are not winning over the televoting! none of our songs in the last few years have been good enough to win never mind get someones no one vote.We are sending average songs constantly ,but i think you also have to look at our own charts ,we are not producing enough bands /acts anymore,there is nowhere near as many talented creative acts and most wouldnt preform as its still seen as a stepdown here. Thats where i have to applaud Nicky Byrne.
The whole point of it being a competition is that not everyone is gonna agree on what song is best or deserves to win !

also i watched a presser from before the comp last week (TODAY) Jamala's they where all congratulating here on a great song and preformance , Nicky's was well hows the radio show ...

It is a known fact that native Irish and UK people are cynical of the Eurovision and therefore are tele-vote shy. And that goes for a lot of other European countries. But the Ethnic Poles here do and they take it seriously. So they tele-vote for their own country. As do the Russians. And there are over 15 million Ethnic Poles scattered around Europe. This is the main reason why they zipped up the leader board after the tele vote.

jaykay74

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Ukraine won because of bloc voting, no other reason. Average song, average everything. Down the field after the Jury vote, romps home with the public vote. Most of eastern Europe giving two fingers to Russia. Not rocket science.

Time for Ireland to abandon this charade.

How far down the field after the Jury vote? Could have sworn it was top 3 ?

10000maniacs

jaykay74 wrote: »

How far down the field after the Jury vote? Could have sworn it was top 3 ?

They were 150 behind Australia before the tele vote.

jaykay74

10000maniacs wrote: »

They were 150 behind Australia before the tele vote.

So not in the top 10 then or..?