Eurovision Song Contest 2016

geotrig

10000maniacs wrote: »

It is a known fact that native Irish and UK people are cynical of the Eurovision and therefore are tele-vote shy. And that goes for a lot of other European countries. But the Ethnic Poles here do and they take it seriously. So they tele-vote for their own country. As do the Russians. And there are over 15 million Ethnic Poles scattered around Europe. This is the main reason why they zipped up the leader board after the tele vote.

They still didnt win with all that voting and were ridiculously low for there song after the jury voting.
I still think at the moment though our issue is with our own music scene, we are it producing enough top drawer talent or music anymore there are some good musicians and bands about but very little are making it anywhere .And artists look down on it !
this competiton should be sold to bands/acts that its some of the biggest exposure that they could get and an excellent stepping stone.

10000maniacs

jaykay74 wrote: »

So not in the top 10 then or..?

Its easy to see why Australia lost the 150 point lead in the tele vote when you consider there are a minimal amount of ethnic Australians scattered around Europe.
The same can be said for the Czechs and the UK who have minimal diaspora in the rest of Europe.

geotrig

jaykay74 wrote: »

So not in the top 10 then or..?

I think they where 2nd or 3rd then !

mansize

jaykay74 wrote: »

How far down the field after the Jury vote? Could have sworn it was top 3 ?

2nd in both

jaykay74

mansize wrote: »

2nd in both

So the song was popular with both public and the jury then it seems...

Shurimgreat

jaykay74 wrote: »

How far down the field after the Jury vote? Could have sworn it was top 3 ?

150 points gap is a big margin to make up. What the format of voting this year exposed is how significant bloc voting is. It gave Ukraine the boost it needed to get over the line. It wasn't the song but the political message of the song that appealed to a significant anti Russian vote, particularly in Eastern Europe.
Its not often I sympathise with Russia but I do on this occasion.

BuilderPlumber

Block/bloc voting is often blamed for our Eurovision woes. There's no denying it exists but it has not stopped others from winning it either. Suppose if a system was set up where certain countries were not allowed to vote for each other or award points to each other.

There is of course a big debate within many of the 'new' countries about their identity. 30 years ago, these countries did not even exist and it was unthinkable for some to even contemplate them being in the contest. Political realities change fast. Countries like Russia and Ukraine have a shared history and even if their governments don't see eye to eye, they still vote for each other. The whole debate in Ukraine is about half of it wants closer ties with Russia and the other half don't. If a pro-Russia singer was singing, Russia would support it. The pro-Russian part of Ukraine likewise would vote bigtime for Russia. Other ex USSR counties will likewise vote for each other. The Baltic states vote for each other, Estonia will also vote for Finland. Romania and Moldova will vote for each other as they are ethnically the same. The Czech Republic and Slovakia will vote for each other, as will the former Yugoslavia.

Political realities change and what seems unthinkable now will come to pass. Future 'new' countries will emerge in the next few years such as the Federal Republic of Iran and that 'new' country and Azerbaijan and Armenia will exchange votes too for the same reasons. If the rest of the Middle East settled down, and the Arab countries joined in, they would become a very powerful bloc as well. Iraq and Syria would vote for each other and would exchange votes with Iran too. If other Persian countries joined in like Tajikistan, they would exchange votes with Iran.

Australia's inclusion means really anyone totally outside of Europe can come into it. You could say all the countries mentioned above are on the fringes of greater Europe. Australia means that anyone from New Zealand to Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam and Malaysia to South Africa to Brazil and Argentina to the US, Mexico and Canada can now join in. Will it be renamed the Globalvision song contest?

mansize

150/42 is only 3.5 points per country so 8/12 2 votes apart wound explain that

mansize

We didn't mind political voting when it benefited us in the old system. Not having invaded them etc

Shurimgreat

jaykay74 wrote: »

So not in the top 10 then or..?

Televoting gave Ukraine 50% more votes than they received by Jury. Australia received 40% less votes from televoting than jury.

You are never going to have a perfect voting system even if done exclusively by jury, but the televoting doesn't really reward the best song, especially when the various diaspora get involved.

As someone said earlier, Ireland has zero chance of winning while televoting has a big say.

dogcat

Ireland were tenth in the televote in 2011, Austria and the Netherlands were the top 2 in televoting in 2014. It's certainly possible if we send the best song.

mansize

Juries can be biased also- some of their voting was "strange" Ger giving Israel 12 points reminded me of Eurovisions of old

mansize

dogcat wrote: »

Ireland were tenth in the televote in 2011, Austria and the Netherlands were the top 2 in televoting in 2014. It's certainly possible if we send the best song.

Agreed. If we send a good song and singer we've every chance!

Jedward could sing but had great presence

dogcat

I would love to have a national final, but when people say that we shouldn't send a song to the contest that we ourselves have voted on, since how can we expect votes if we didn't vote on it ourselves, I'd point them right in the direction of Austria 2014, an internally selected song, as well as Russia and Australia this year, both internally selected.

I myself would prefer a national final, but we can't entirely blame this being down to an internal selection. Some internal selections are a bad choice, and some are a good choice. It's not as if we always pick the best song for Europe in a national final either.

dogcat

mansize wrote: »

Juries can be biased also- some of their voting was "strange" Ger giving Israel 12 points reminded me of Eurovisions of old

Of course some juries are biased, Armenia and Azerbaijan generally have each juror rank each other last every year.

hmmm

As long as we have public voting we'll have a diaspora vote. Countries that are geographically and culturally close to each other are also more likely to recognise singers or enjoy their songs. The best thing they could do is reduce the impact of the public vote by limiting that to (say) 150 points in total, and giving the professional juries a greater share of the points (even if the British get the National Association for the Deaf, Guide Dog Chapter in as their jury).

Strazdas

dogcat wrote: »

I would love to have a national final, but when people say that we shouldn't send a song to the contest that we ourselves have voted on, since how can we expect votes if we didn't vote on it ourselves, I'd point them right in the direction of Austria 2014, an internally selected song, as well as Russia and Australia this year, both internally selected.

I myself would prefer a national final, but we can't entirely blame this being down to an internal selection. Some internal selections are a bad choice, and some are a good choice. It's not as if we always pick the best song for Europe in a national final either.

I don't think an internal selection would be a good idea for Ireland. It's unlikely we could get a quality performer and I'd be sceptical we could find a good song. I don't think Irish people will ever be comfortable with the idea of the broadcaster picking the song and singer either, not after 50 years of national finals.

I would prefer to see a revamped national final but with RTE making deliberate attempts to improve the standard of singer and song.

Is it profitable to host the Eurovision Song contest? Not for RTE as such but for the country as a whole?
RTE should outsource the selection of the entrant to an independent production company and it should be incentivised by bonus payments based on succeeding in the Semi Final and placement in the Final.

I generally disagree that block voting always determines the winner and it is proven by the variety of countries who have won the competition.

Capt'n Midnight

mansize wrote: »

RTE won't learn any lessons the way they circle the wagons anyway...

There's only one wagon



It's a shame they wiped the tapes

Richard Hillman

Looking at the history of our entries

2016: Nicky Byrne (2FM/RTE and former Louis Walsh band)
2015: Molly Sterling (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2014: Kasey Smith (Was in a Louis Walsh band called wonderland) Produced by Gail and David Kaneswaren (Louis Walsh's buddy)
2013: Ryan Dolan (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2012: Jedward (Managed by Louis Walsh)
2011: Jedward (Managed by Louis Walsh)
2010: Niamh Kavanagh (Former winner)
2009: Sinead Mulvey (Former You're a star contestant. Louis Walsh was a judge)
2008: Dustin (RTE Employee)
2007: Devish (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2006: Donna and Joe (Former You're a star contestant. Louis Walsh was a judge)
2005: Brian Kennedy (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2004: Chris Doran (Former You're a star contestant. Louis Walsh was a judge)
2003: Mickey Harte (Former You're a star contestant. Before Louis Walsh was on the show)


Are we starting to see the pattern?

There is a little clique of Louis Walsh, Linda Martin (Former Judge on You're a star) and a few tag alongs like the Kaneswaren family ( Gail was a former Judge on You're a star)that are always getting their noses involved. Louis Walsh got kicked off the X-Factor because his acts consistently did badly. The contestants used to groan in his face when he was revealed to be their mentor. His whole career was based around Boybands that sung cover versions.

I am totally for these calls for a move to independence. If they are not raiding the RTE Canteen, they are raiding Louis Walsh's clique.

BuilderPlumber

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it profitable to host the Eurovision Song contest? Not for RTE as such but for the country as a whole?
RTE should outsource the selection of the entrant to an independent production company and it should be incentivised by bonus payments based on succeeding in the Semi Final and placement in the Final.

I generally disagree that block voting always determines the winner and it is proven by the variety of countries who have won the competition.

I agree. The block voting is only one factor and will only gain a certain amount of votes for a song. The main problem is closer to home.

The Irish media have supported boyband singers for too long. They encourage them to sing pop, so-called country music, Eurovision .. anywhere at all RTE can promote them, they will.

What they do not realise as I previously said is that this stuff does not translate well outside of their control. RTE make gods out of these boyband singers and then have them on all their chatshows and treat them as if they are international superstars.

Since the media have taken over the music scene and linked music to cheap TV shows, we have got nothing only one modern pop and modern country singer worse than the last one. Lee Matthews is an example of a modern Irish singer who has been in every poor music craze we ever had. He would be ideal as yet more poor cannon fodder for the Eurovision. It would be easy to once more predict to see his techno-electric-country-hip hop-pop song come last.

BuilderPlumber

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Looking at the history of our entries

2016: Nicky Byrne (2FM/RTE and former Louis Walsh band)
2015: Molly Sterling (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2014: Kasey Smith (Was in a Louis Walsh band called wonderland) Produced by Gail and David Kaneswaren (Louis Walsh's buddy)
2013: Ryan Dolan (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2012: Jedward (Managed by Louis Walsh)
2011: Jedward (Managed by Louis Walsh)
2010: Niamh Kavanagh (Former winner)
2009: Sinead Mulvey (Former You're a star contestant. Louis Walsh was a judge)
2008: Dustin (RTE Employee)
2007: Devish (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2006: Donna and Joe (Former You're a star contestant. Louis Walsh was a judge)
2005: Brian Kennedy (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2004: Chris Doran (Former You're a star contestant. Louis Walsh was a judge)
2003: Mickey Harte (Former You're a star contestant. Before Louis Walsh was on the show)


Are we starting to see the pattern?

There is a little clique of Louis Walsh, Linda Martin (Former Judge on You're a star) and a few tag alongs like the Kaneswaren family ( Gail was a former Judge on You're a star)that are always getting their noses involved. Louis Walsh got kicked off the X-Factor because his acts consistently did badly. The contestants used to groan in his face when he was revealed to be their mentor. His whole career was based around Boybands that sung cover versions.

I am totally for these calls for a move to independence. If they are not raiding the RTE Canteen, they are raiding Louis Walsh's clique.

Louis Walsh is one of the causes of why Irish music has gotten so bad. RTE seem to support him in doing anything. I don't care if they are doing covers or originals, all them boyband singers were and are brutal. Their covers are poorly chosen and are usually written by some modern useless songwriter. Their originals are written by themselves and make it plain to see they are not Hank Williams or Leiber/Stoller.

The Talking Bread

Strazdas wrote: »

I'm just thinking that as internal selections go, Byrne's choice was a disaster. Nobody bought into the idea of him being the entrant or thought he would qualify and the song bombed in the charts. In retrospect, Nicky saying that his main aim was to get Ireland out of the semi final was sending out all the wrong signals. We should be sending a song and singer that we think will win Eurovision otherwise why bother even compete? Setting the bar so low is asking for trouble and we'll never even qualify that way, never mind win it.

sheep?

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Looking at the history of our entries

2016: Nicky Byrne (2FM/RTE and former Louis Walsh band)
2015: Molly Sterling (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2014: Kasey Smith (Was in a Louis Walsh band called wonderland) Produced by Gail and David Kaneswaren (Louis Walsh's buddy)
2013: Ryan Dolan (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2012: Jedward (Managed by Louis Walsh)
2011: Jedward (Managed by Louis Walsh)
2010: Niamh Kavanagh (Former winner)
2009: Sinead Mulvey (Former You're a star contestant. Louis Walsh was a judge)
2008: Dustin (RTE Employee)
2007: Devish (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2006: Donna and Joe (Former You're a star contestant. Louis Walsh was a judge)
2005: Brian Kennedy (No conflict of interest that I know of)
2004: Chris Doran (Former You're a star contestant. Louis Walsh was a judge)
2003: Mickey Harte (Former You're a star contestant. Before Louis Walsh was on the show)

The only tunes I could sing back to you at the moment.

Strazdas

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Are we starting to see the pattern?

There is a little clique of Louis Walsh, Linda Martin (Former Judge on You're a star) and a few tag alongs like the Kaneswaren family ( Gail was a former Judge on You're a star)that are always getting their noses involved. Louis Walsh got kicked off the X-Factor because his acts consistently did badly. The contestants used to groan in his face when he was revealed to be their mentor. His whole career was based around Boybands that sung cover versions.

I am totally for these calls for a move to independence. If they are not raiding the RTE Canteen, they are raiding Louis Walsh's clique.

Another factor is that Louis, Linda and Marty Whelan etc are simply too old these days to be involved in the Eurovision selection. There should be much younger people involved, people who have a very keen interest in the modern Eurovision though and watch it, not just random people from music / entertainment.

mansize

2007 was when John Waters whinged til they let him do the song

Grandeeod

I lost all interest in 2014 after Billygate, Louisgate and Lindagate. But....

I believe with a bit more arrangement, this song would have qualified and given the beardie one a run for his or her money.

We won with ballads, good ballads. This could have been a good ballad. It just needed to be "filled out more". In the end we entered a plincky plonky dancaphobia piece of forgettable eurothrash that wasn't as good as the other eurothrash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5jgSj8YH-M

Strazdas

Grandeeod wrote: »

I lost all interest in 2014 after Billygate, Louisgate and Lindagate. But....

I believe with a bit more arrangement, this song would have qualified and given the beardie one a run for his or her money.

We won with ballads, good ballads. This could have been a good ballad. It just needed to be "filled out more". In the end we entered a plincky plonky dancaphobia piece of forgettable eurothrash that wasn't as good as the other eurothrash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5jgSj8YH-M

I agree with you, this one might actually qualified that year.

Mr.Nice Guy

I think the problem is that while you need innovation, all RTE can offer up is imitation.

There is no point in trying to do what worked last year as people are wise to it. I have no doubt that next year we will see countries offering up a whole host of laments in the hope of 'doing a Ukraine', but I don't see it working again; people will want something else. Look at the winners of recent times and you see there is no winning formula.

A lament about Ukraine's history was the follow-up to a Swedish guy with an absorbing visual display, which followed a BEARDED LADY, which followed a Danish folk song, which followed a dramatic Swedish dance tune, which followed a soppy Azerbaijani ballad.

There is no set formula. Go a bit further back and you get the one-of-a-kind masked Finnish rockers, Lordi.

Ireland won't win this contest any time soon because it requires thinking outside the box. Jedward were an example of this and achieved the best result of recent times, but RTE didn't realise this was why they should have continued searching for an act that would generate a bit of buzz. The second time Jedward went there was noticeably less excitement. There was an appetite for something different.

We require originality and of course the right tune and act. If we could tick these three boxes we would have a chance but we have officials in RTE who just want to play it safe so they will do what they always do - wheel out Linda Martin, Louis Walsh, and maybe throw in one of the Rubberbandits to try and make themselves seem edgy and hip, and they will select some awfully average dirge. It's so predictable.

If they made a serious effort to get talented musicians and artists, offering a decent cash prize for the winning entry for instance, and actively sought out performances that were not run-of-the-mill but which stood out, and had a panel of judges that knew what they were talking about, we might come up with something good. But it won't happen.

Grandeeod

Strazdas wrote: »

I agree with you, this one might actually qualified that year.

I was astounded when it wasn't picked. We got this instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo8P-5w5fA0

It didn't qulaify.

And of course this is what won. Not that much better than Laura O'Neill if we had really concentrated on Laura's arrangement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToqNa0rqUtY

You can feel the big arrangement and production in this. Laura O'Neill's song, "You don't remember me" could easily have been given the epic treatment. Both songs were very Bond theme in style. If it was the beard and back story that helped it, then so be it, but Ireland had a real contender in that tune.

Please view the links to understand the post. Thank you.

Welsh Megaman

Ah well...it's not as if Nicky only agreed to represent Ireland just to promote his new album which is out this week.








Oh wait.

Strazdas

Welsh Megaman wrote: »

Ah well...it's not as if Nicky only agreed to represent Ireland just to promote his new album which is out this week.








Oh wait.

He was well within his rights to offer his services to RTE but it goes without saying they should have turned him down, especially given he had no solo career and had never released anything.

Strazdas

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think the problem is that while you need innovation, all RTE can offer up is imitation.

There is no point in trying to do what worked last year as people are wise to it. I have no doubt that next year we will see countries offering up a whole host of laments in the hope of 'doing a Ukraine', but I don't see it working again; people will want something else. Look at the winners of recent times and you see there is no winning formula.

A lament about Ukraine's history was the follow-up to a Swedish guy with an absorbing visual display, which followed a BEARDED LADY, which followed a Danish folk song, which followed a dramatic Swedish dance tune, which followed a soppy Azerbaijani ballad.

There is no set formula. Go a bit further back and you get the one-of-a-kind masked Finnish rockers, Lordi.

Ireland won't win this contest any time soon because it requires thinking outside the box. Jedward were an example of this and achieved the best result of recent times, but RTE didn't realise this was why they should have continued searching for an act that would generate a bit of buzz. The second time Jedward went there was noticeably less excitement. There was an appetite for something different.

We require originality and of course the right tune and act. If we could tick these three boxes we would have a chance but we have officials in RTE who just want to play it safe so they will do what they always do - wheel out Linda Martin, Louis Walsh, and maybe throw in one of the Rubberbandits to try and make themselves seem edgy and hip, and they will select some awfully average dirge. It's so predictable.

If they made a serious effort to get talented musicians and artists, offering a decent cash prize for the winning entry for instance, and actively sought out performances that were not run-of-the-mill but which stood out, and had a panel of judges that knew what they were talking about, we might come up with something good. But it won't happen.

It just needs some creative thinking from RTE. Move the national final to a much bigger venue and perhaps introduce a couple of semi finals. Offer to help out with the choreography of the acts and provide backing dancers for anyone who wants them. Perhaps bring in an online voting element where videos of the entries are uploaded weeks in advance. There are loads of different things they could be doing.

Indestructable

Welsh Megaman wrote: »

Ah well...it's not as if Nicky only agreed to represent Ireland just to promote his new album which is out this week.





Oh wait.

Can't see it doing to well. It kinda backfired on him, is it the title song too?

Welsh Megaman

Indestructable wrote: »

Welsh Megaman wrote: »

Ah well...it's not as if Nicky only agreed to represent Ireland just to promote his new album which is out this week.





Oh wait.

Can't see it doing to well. It kinda backfired on him, is it the title song too?

Yep.

I bet Bonnie Ryan will conveniently release her debut album this time next year!

Heat_Wave

I've watched Spain's performance approx 10 times today. How they came in the bottom 5 is mind boggling

Capt'n Midnight

It's not rocket science. We just need to stop sending crap to Eurovision. There isn't any shortage of talent here.

We know the basic formula. It's funny because it's true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMgW54HBOS0

Bit of eye candy. Bit of movement. Bit of colour. Something that passes the Old Grey Whistle Test, if people aren't humming it after hearing it a few times it's time to look for a new song. It has to be catchy or an impressive tour de force.

The extra tip is to make sure that your song is distinctive, if it don't stand out there's no point. With nearly fifty songs you can't be one of the crowd.

We don't have any shortage of historical images and instruments. Harps , Bodhrans, Tin Whistles , Uilleann Pipes, and of course fiddle/violin very easy to add these to make our song sound different to the pack. Plenty of Irish riffs and signatures.

4068ac1elhodqr

Heat_Wave wrote: »

I've watched Spain's performance approx 10 times today. How they came in the bottom 5 is mind boggling

Agree, it Spain went from around 300/1 in the markets to around 17/1. And was even 3rd fav at one stage. Latvia's electronica number should of done better, nearly everyone had something good to say about it.

There was a sense of relief as Bulgaria's catchy tune placed in at fourth.

Australia's vocals where pitch perfect, and after the jury's votes, you would only have got 7cents back - per 1euro staked on them to win.

Still think UKR's 'winning' 'song' is the same 3mins of noise a person makes as they step fumbling barefoot on lego pieces - just before falling off a high rope bridge down into a rocky cavern, all during a severe hurricane, cat-in-hand.

BuilderPlumber

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think the problem is that while you need innovation, all RTE can offer up is imitation.

There is no point in trying to do what worked last year as people are wise to it. I have no doubt that next year we will see countries offering up a whole host of laments in the hope of 'doing a Ukraine', but I don't see it working again; people will want something else. Look at the winners of recent times and you see there is no winning formula.

A lament about Ukraine's history was the follow-up to a Swedish guy with an absorbing visual display, which followed a BEARDED LADY, which followed a Danish folk song, which followed a dramatic Swedish dance tune, which followed a soppy Azerbaijani ballad.

There is no set formula. Go a bit further back and you get the one-of-a-kind masked Finnish rockers, Lordi.

Ireland won't win this contest any time soon because it requires thinking outside the box. Jedward were an example of this and achieved the best result of recent times, but RTE didn't realise this was why they should have continued searching for an act that would generate a bit of buzz. The second time Jedward went there was noticeably less excitement. There was an appetite for something different.

We require originality and of course the right tune and act. If we could tick these three boxes we would have a chance but we have officials in RTE who just want to play it safe so they will do what they always do - wheel out Linda Martin, Louis Walsh, and maybe throw in one of the Rubberbandits to try and make themselves seem edgy and hip, and they will select some awfully average dirge. It's so predictable.

If they made a serious effort to get talented musicians and artists, offering a decent cash prize for the winning entry for instance, and actively sought out performances that were not run-of-the-mill but which stood out, and had a panel of judges that knew what they were talking about, we might come up with something good. But it won't happen.

We do need to think outside the box and we do need to free ourselves from this boyband obsession. Jedward had something different anyway and it worked the first year in particular. Nicky Byrne's entry was like 10 others we had and it sounded the same and ended the same way in the competition.

When one looks at the Irish media, it is saturated with boyband singers. Look at all the musical guests on Tubridy every Friday for the past 3 years and you will see boybands, ex boyband singers and a certain boyband manager on numerous times. Then, you have all them talent competitions over the years from You're a Star to Glor Tire all featuring boybands, ex boyband singers or songs written by boyband members. Look at that Stetsons and Stilettos last year: RTE following ex boyband members singing what passes as 'country music' and what should be called boyfolk music. Look at all the attention around Niall Horan, another boyband singer.And then we come to the Eurovision. Louis Walsh is never too far from proceedings and I have lost count of how many songs have we sent over that sounded like Westlife?

What will we send out next year? Eoghan Quigg? Derek Ryan? Lee Matthews? Niall Horan? Ronan Keating? Or how about that group of singers forming a superboyband called Five? Whatever or whoever it will be, the above or some other boyband singer will feature in it in the near future. And will flop.

4068ac1elhodqr

Seems the bit of publicity did no harm for NB:

"Westlife's Nicky Byrne 'shortlisted' to present Xtra Factor replacing Rochelle Humes and Melvin Odoom"

BuilderPlumber

Strazdas wrote: »

He was well within his rights to offer his services to RTE but it goes without saying they should have turned him down, especially given he had no solo career and had never released anything.

Nicky Byrne went to RTE knowing full well they'd support him. He and they felt they could repeat Brian Kennedy's 2006 success: famous singer sings song and does well. Only difference was Brian had a quality song and was not a boyband singer. Nicky Byrne's song was more like those that Chris Doran and Ryan Dolan did.

sheep?

Ariya Sharp Warship wrote: »

Still think UKR's 'winning' 'song' is the same 3mins of noise a person makes as they step fumbling barefoot on lego pieces - just before falling off a high rope bridge down into a rocky cavern, all during a severe hurricane, cat-in-hand.

Why is it 'winning'? They won! :pac:

maude6868

Grandeeod wrote: »

I lost all interest in 2014 after Billygate, Louisgate and Lindagate. But....

I believe with a bit more arrangement, this song would have qualified and given the beardie one a run for his or her money.

We won with ballads, good ballads. This could have been a good ballad. It just needed to be "filled out more". In the end we entered a plincky plonky dancaphobia piece of forgettable eurothrash that wasn't as good as the other eurothrash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5jgSj8YH-M

Absolutely agree, that was by far the best song that night. Can we enter it next year.

yerwanthere123

10000maniacs wrote: »

You can predict a fairly accurate result for the tele-vote result and not even listen to a song. This is why it is important to remove it and go back to juries.
In order to win the Eurovision Song Contest, the parameters in order of importance are

1: Diaspora in other countries eligible to vote. (Poland, Russia, Lithuania etc.)
2: Cultural linkages with other nations in close proximity to you. (Scandinavia)
3: The order of the song on the night.
4: Weighted tele-vote history for the previous 18 years.
5: Stage gimmick and graphical presentation.
6: Song itself.

You have to ask why Poland jumped from second last to sixth when the tele-vote was factored in.
And why do the UK and Ireland continually give the highest votes to Lithuania, Poland and Russia in the tele vote every year?
The tele-vote is also the reason why we don't have a chance of winning ever again.

So you're citing diaspora as the most important factor in winning Eurovision? If it's that important and influential then why have Poland previously struggled to qualify so much? It's only in the last three years they've turned it around. How come Lithuania achieved only their second ever top ten finish on Saturday, and their first in ten years? How come Russia don't win it every year then?

Diaspora is, of course, a huge help to countries chances, but to cite it as the most important factor, and the song itself as the 6th most important is total nonsense.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Ukraine won because of bloc voting, no other reason. Average song, average everything. Down the field after the Jury vote, romps home with the public vote. Most of eastern Europe giving two fingers to Russia. Not rocket science.

Time for Ireland to abandon this charade.

:rolleyes:

So nothing to do with the song quality then. The juries, who you've stated should have exclusivity in designating the points, put it in second place. It received widespread support from voters both in Eastern and Western Europe, in fact it got televote points from Ireland, Britain, France, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium and even Australia! Or is that bloc voting too? :rolleyes:

dogcat wrote: »

Ireland were tenth in the televote in 2011, Austria and the Netherlands were the top 2 in televoting in 2014. It's certainly possible if we send the best song.

Of course it is. All this "Ireland will never win again!!1!" hysteria is so baffling, how on Earth can people come to these conclusions when we haven't send a decent song in probably as many years as the last time we won it? Probably the only okish songs we've sent this millennium would be Mickey Harte in 2003 and Jedward in 2011, who achieved 11th and 8th respectively. Brian Kennedy has probably been our best effort in recent years and he got 10th place. Had the jury vote been taken that that year I reckon he could have been top 5.

I could understand people's bitterness if we were sending Euphoria-esque type songs and still performing poorly, but no. We send Nicky Byrne, Ryan Dolan and Kasey Smith. We get what we deserve.

Grandeeod wrote: »

I was astounded when it wasn't picked. We got this instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo8P-5w5fA0

It didn't qulaify.

And of course this is what won. Not that much better than Laura O'Neill if we had really concentrated on Laura's arrangement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToqNa0rqUtY

You can feel the big arrangement and production in this. Laura O'Neill's song, "You don't remember me" could easily have been given the epic treatment. Both songs were very Bond theme in style. If it was the beard and back story that helped it, then so be it, but Ireland had a real contender in that tune.

Please view the links to understand the post. Thank you.

I wasn't the biggest fan of Rise Like A Phoenix, I feel the bearded lady gimmick robbed The Netherlands of a thoroughly deserved win, but to compare it to that dross by Laura O' Neill in any shape or form is highly insulting. It's infinitely better in every respect.

Heat_Wave wrote: »

I've watched Spain's performance approx 10 times today. How they came in the bottom 5 is mind boggling

It wouldn't have made my top ten but I think it probably deserved better than 22nd. I think performing after Russia really hurt it.

10000maniacs

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

So you're citing diaspora as the most important factor in winning Eurovision? If it's that important and influential then why have Poland previously struggled to qualify so much? It's only in the last three years they've turned it around..

They haven't entered a lot in recent years. Split voting came in in 2011.
They did not take part in 2012 and 2013. And since then they have done exceedingly better in the tele-vote than the jury vote. UK, Lithuania, Georgia and Ireland seem to bombard them with tele vote points for some reason.

Shurimgreat

10000maniacs wrote: »

They haven't entered a lot in recent years. Split voting came in in 2011.
They did not take part in 2012 and 2013. And since then they have done exceedingly better in the tele-vote than the jury vote. UK, Lithuania, Georgia and Ireland seem to bombard them with tele vote points for some reason.

Dealt with here.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36305838

According to Polish government statistics, the 10 European countries with the most Polish residents are Germany, the UK, Austria, France, Italy, Sweden, the Netherlands, Ireland, Belgium and Spain.
In all but two of these countries (France and Spain), televoters awarded the Polish song 10 or 12 votes, according to the Eurovision results spreadsheet. On average these 10 countries awarded Poland 9.6 votes, while the other 31 countries gave the Polish entry an average of only four votes each.
The only other country which gave Poland a big vote was Iceland - there the number of Poles is not huge, but they still compose the biggest migrant group.
But if Poles are voting for their homeland they are not doing so blindly. Last year their song didn't do well and there was no sign of a migrant effect. So perhaps only if the song is good will the diaspora get behind it.

I think the quality of the song is sort of beside the point. The Polish song wasn't the best in the competition, but it sucked up the diaspora vote.

Its becoming harder and harder to take Eurovision seriously, not that it was taken seriously in the first place. The Ukrainians managed to bend the rules on political messages and attracted votes because of it.

snubbleste

DEFTLEFTHAND

Welsh Megaman wrote: »

Ah well...it's not as if Nicky only agreed to represent Ireland just to promote his new album which is out this week.








Oh wait.

What's he at releasing albums? What's the market for somebody like him.

I honestly thought that he got out of the pop business after Westlife.

yerwanthere123

10000maniacs wrote: »

They haven't entered a lot in recent years. Split voting came in in 2011.
They did not take part in 2012 and 2013. And since then they have done exceedingly better in the tele-vote than the jury vote. UK, Lithuania, Georgia and Ireland seem to bombard them with tele vote points for some reason.

Since 2003 they've entered every year bar 2012 & 2013. The split vote was introduced in 2009, although I'm not sure how that's relevant since it's the diaspora vote that we're talking about, which refers to the televote, which has been there since the late 90's. Between 2005 and 2011 the Polish diaspora could only get Poland to the final once. The year they did make it, they came joint last. Last year the Polish diaspora could only get Monika 47 points, whilst in 2014 Cleo and Donaton got 162 points for a song which would also have got a lot of points for it's gimmicky nature.

Look, I'm not denying that the Polish diaspora obviously plays a part, it's quite clear from their past results that Poland do benefit from diaspora votes. But, it's also quite clear that diaspora only got get a song so far, and as Michal Szpak's 222 televote points show, it's patently obvious that the song appealed to a lot more than just Polish voters and was more popular than people gave it credit for. I'm not trying to say it earned third place solely on merit, or that it was the third best song, but I do believe it was worthy of top ten and would likely have fared as such without diaspora voters.

If we really want to complain about bloc/diaspora voting, we should look more towards Serbia. 64 of their 80 televotes came from former either former Yugoslav countries or the Serbian diaspora in Switzerland and Austria.

10000maniacs

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Since 2003 they've entered every year bar 2012 & 2013. The split vote was introduced in 2009, although I'm not sure how that's relevant since it's the diaspora vote that we're talking about, which refers to the televote, which has been there since the late 90's. Between 2005 and 2011 the Polish diaspora could only get Poland to the final once. The year they did make it, they came joint last. Last year the Polish diaspora could only get Monika 47 points, whilst in 2014 Cleo and Donaton got 162 points for a song which would also have got a lot of points for it's gimmicky nature.

Look, I'm not denying that the Polish diaspora obviously plays a part, it's quite clear from their past results that Poland do benefit from diaspora votes. But, it's also quite clear that diaspora only got get a song so far, and as Michal Szpak's 222 televote points show, it's patently obvious that the song appealed to a lot more than just Polish voters and was more popular than people gave it credit for. I'm not trying to say it earned third place solely on merit, or that it was the third best song, but I do believe it was worthy of top ten and would likely have fared as such without diaspora voters.

If we really want to complain about bloc/diaspora voting, we should look more towards Serbia. 64 of their 80 televotes came from former either former Yugoslav countries or the Serbian diaspora in Switzerland and Austria.

So the 222 musical experts who only awarded it only 7 points were all wrong. Apart from the few who awarded them points.
I personally hated the song. No tune or substance, inane lyrics.
"What's the color of your life every day we must fight with the wind"
Jesus on a bike.:rolleyes: