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#GE16 - North Kildare

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24567…15

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    #32
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    I fail to see why the person who raises issues is getting the blame when the person who can effect change refuses to do so. What else do you expect from an opposition TD. She has raised many issues over the years and ministers have just ignored her. I blame them not her.


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    #33
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Orion wrote: »
    I fail to see why the person who raises issues is getting the blame when the person who can effect change refuses to do so. What else do you expect from an opposition TD. She has raised many issues over the years and ministers have just ignored her. I blame them not her.

    It's like backing a horse who makes great effort but never wins anything. Time to look for a different horse.


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    #34
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    n97 mini wrote: »
    It's like backing a horse who makes great effort but never wins anything. Time to look for a different horse.

    If everyone thougt like that there'd be no opposition parties. Just re-elect the same government so.


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    #35
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Orion wrote: »
    If everyone thougt like that there'd be no opposition parties. Just re-elect the same government so.

    I don't understand the logic of that statement, considering all the existing KN TDs have all similarly failed to effect change, and won't be getting my vote either.


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    #36
    scheister
    Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭scheister


    Catherine Murphy will top the poll
    FF and FG will each take a seat

    I see stagg and SF fighting for that last seat.
    FG could be in with a shout for two seats but would be a very good day and very good vote split.

    All TD's have tried for more Garda in N. Kildare but the main thing is the local super needs to ask for them and it became a case in the early 2000's that the super was not looking for them hence the number dropped.

    I don't agree with the idea that Catherine Murphy has had 5 years time for someone new. Stagg and Durkan have been shouting about some issues for longer then that with no results and people keep electing them.


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    #37
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I don't understand the logic of that statement, considering all the existing KN TDs have all similarly failed to effect change, and won't be getting my vote either.

    Quite the contrary. 3 of the 4 TDs have effected a lot of change - as government TDs they are equally responsible for property tax, water charges, the disgrace that is our health system, garda numbers, removal of carer's allowance, VAT increases, etc. 2 of these are senior members of their parties and one is assistant chief whip. If you are to vote based on actions then these 3 get no preference.

    Murphy has done a lot such as forcing the government's hand in the whole Siteserv debacle which they would quite happily have ignored without her. She's one of the rare TDs who actually cares about the national interest and stamping out corruption.


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    #38
    2ndcoming
    Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    On the policing issue, the guards are short numbers nationally, massively. While crime detection is low in North Kildare, so are reported crimes relatively speaking. Some of the lowest rates in the country tbh, so no matter who you vote for, unless there is a bout of rioting, looting or murders the limited resources of the gardai are going to be sent elsewhere more than likely.


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    #39
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Orion wrote: »
    Murphy has done a lot such as forcing the government's hand in the whole Siteserv debacle which they would quite happily have ignored without her. She's one of the rare TDs who actually cares about the national interest and stamping out corruption.

    What difference did it make to the quality of the lives of the citizens, or of her constituents though?

    Personally I felt she was pursuing that with at least some intention of raising her profile by way of media attention.


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    #40
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    If it stamps out corruption then it improves things for everyone. But this again is the problem as I said earlier in the thread. She, and all TDs, are national representatives. This "what has she done for North Kildare" attitude is exactly the parish pump politics that prevents anything ever changing. TDs need to focus on what's in the national interest not what Joe the Plumber needs done on his street.

    Personally I felt that she identified corruption in the allocation of state contracts and got stone walled by the government so went public to force the issue despite their best efforts to hide it. I genuinely think that she did what she did in the national interest not her own.


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    #41
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Orion wrote: »
    This "what has she done for North Kildare" attitude is exactly the parish pump politics that prevents anything ever changing

    Parish pump politics is getting potholes fixed outside constituents gates, and other deeds that buy votes and have no benefit for the wider community.

    I commend you voting in the national interest, but if you are happy for KN to not have a swimming pool, not to have a recycling centre, a council that blocks pp for the only cinema in the constituency on idiotic grounds, non-integrated transport, a shortage of playgrounds, the worst crime detection in Ireland, the worst garda ratios in the state, maybe you should move to an area that has all those things sorted and vote in the national interest from there.


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    #42
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Parish pump politics is getting potholes fixed outside constituents gates, and other deeds that buy votes and have no benefit for the wider community.

    I commend you voting in the national interest, but if you are happy for KN to not have a swimming pool, not to have a recycling centre, a council that blocks pp for the only cinema in the constituency on idiotic grounds, non-integrated transport, a shortage of playgrounds, the worst crime detection in Ireland, the worst garda ratios in the state, maybe you should move to an area that has all those things sorted and vote in the national interest from there.

    Every one of those things you list, bar the Gardai related ones, are county council issues. And the Gardai is a DoJ issue. That is exactly what I mean when I refer to parish pump politics. TDs should not interfere in local planning ever. It's not their role and we've seen the corruption that ensues when they do in the past. Swimming pools and recycling centres similarly are local issues. The cinema - yes the decision was ridiculous but it again was KCC not Dail Eireann.

    You really need to clarify in your own mind the difference between County Councillors and TDs especially when looking at candidates in a General Election. Make the current crop of Councillors account for these local issues at the next local elections but when voting next month consider the larger picture.


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    #43
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Orion wrote: »
    Every one of those things you list, bar the Gardai related ones, are county council issues. And the Gardai is a DoJ issue. That is exactly what I mean when I refer to parish pump politics. TDs should not interfere in local planning ever. It's not their role and we've seen the corruption that ensues when they do in the past. Swimming pools and recycling centres similarly are local issues. The cinema - yes the decision was ridiculous but it again was KCC not Dail Eireann. .

    I think you're compartmentalising things, and naive in thinking even a decent CoCo can deliver on everything without some external ministerial help or intervention, usually in the form of grants.


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    #44
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,865 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Orion wrote: »
    Every one of those things you list, bar the Gardai related ones, are county council issues. And the Gardai is a DoJ issue. That is exactly what I mean when I refer to parish pump politics. TDs should not interfere in local planning ever. It's not their role and we've seen the corruption that ensues when they do in the past. Swimming pools and recycling centres similarly are local issues. The cinema - yes the decision was ridiculous but it again was KCC not Dail Eireann.

    You really need to clarify in your own mind the difference between County Councillors and TDs especially when looking at candidates in a General Election. Make the current crop of Councillors account for these local issues at the next local elections but when voting next month consider the larger picture.

    The reality of it is that council don't actually deliver any of these things directly. County councils here have much the same powers as parish councils in the UK do.


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    #45
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    They have power over planning and chose to deny a cinema for spurious reasons. And now coincidentally the college are planning a cinema. They chose not to apply for funding for a swimming pool - you won't get grants unless you ask for them. Similarly for playgrounds they wasted the money that was supposed to be put aside for amenities. Recycling plants requires them to engage with the EPA and DoE which they haven't done. They do have roles and responsibilities in all of these which they have neglected. I still fail to see how you can blame a TD for the failings of the Councillors.


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    #46
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,865 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Orion wrote: »
    They have power over planning and chose to deny a cinema for spurious reasons. And now coincidentally the college are planning a cinema. They chose not to apply for funding for a swimming pool - you won't get grants unless you ask for them. Similarly for playgrounds they wasted the money that was supposed to be put aside for amenities. Recycling plants requires them to engage with the EPA and DoE which they haven't done. They do have roles and responsibilities in all of these which they have neglected. I still fail to see how you can blame a TD for the failings of the Councillors.

    Pretty much all of those issues are the permanent, non-elected, council staff and executive which has a severe bias against the north of the county (despite getting the bulk of its rates income from it). Councillors don't directly control those things.

    Realistically North Kildare has nothing to do with the rest of the county and needed to be split in to a new county with Lucan when the local authorities were fiddled with last, but breaking the traditional county boundaries that nobody gave a damn about* until the GAA came around is considered impossible.


    *if doing any historical or genealogical research, trying to find references to counties prior to about 1880 is very rare - baronies were more important. But we're now told they're ancient and traditional...


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    #47
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Whatever about Lucan, I would advocate strongly for a Kildare North and Kildare South, but if Tipperary can't do it any more, there's a snowball's chance in hell of it happening here, as again we'd be looking for our elected representatives to effect that change.


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    #48
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    What was the story about the cinema? I don't live in that area.


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    #49
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    HonalD wrote: »
    What was the story about the cinema? I don't live in that area.

    http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056259329


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    #50
    Joe Public
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    Do all the sitting TDs run local clinics? acting like an alternative Citizens' Advice Bureaux and maybe helping people jump the queue.
    Is that what gets them re-elected?
    Parish Pump politics is alive and well with no end in sight.

    It's not really a level playing pitch out there when you have some politicians spending most of their time being popular in their local area when
    some are out "fighting" for their country.

    When politicians call to the door I'm guessing most of the questions are to do with local matters.

    Going on the local element I wouldn't be surprised if a hard working councillor gets elected.


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    #51
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,865 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Joe Public wrote: »
    Do all the sitting TDs run local clinics? acting like an alternative Citizens' Advice Bureaux and maybe helping people jump the queue.
    Is that what gets them re-elected?
    Parish Pump politics is alive and well with no end in sight.
    .

    Stagg does, Murphy does (although she requests people to meet privately if possible). Can't find details online on the FG TDs doing it but I suspect they probably do and advertise it locally; Durkan definitely has done so in the past. Durkan interestingly does not have a constituency office of any description as he feels it unnecessary (http://www.eolasmagazine.ie/are-they-needed/)

    In the UK where councils have vastly more power and MPs are elected for national issues they still do them as a matter of course.


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    #52
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    HonalD wrote: »
    What was the story about the cinema? I don't live in that area.

    Catherine Murphy covered it on her site. She made representations to An Bord Pleanala, who upheld KCC's decision:
    http://www.catherinemurphy.ie/?p=316
    http://www.catherinemurphy.ie/?p=320


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    #53
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Durken does do clinics - I've seen him in Leixlip GAA and the odd other pub but not sure how regularly or where.
    Lawlor has a constituency office in Naas that's open Mon-Fri. No idea about clinics.

    I've contacted both in the past and to be fair to them they do respond as do Stagg and Murphy.


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    #54
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    The "clinics" are the epitome of mé-féinism as they're usually about getting council houses or medical card etc. Bernard Durkan made the papers as he asked, and continues to ask, a huge number of questions in the Dáil about specific asylum cases. As many of the people he enquired about were not Kildare North residents, he seems to have become a bit of a "go to" man for asylum seekers and other immigrants having issues with their status.

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2015-11-26a.370


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    #55
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I don't understand the logic of that statement, considering all the existing KN TDs have all similarly failed to effect change, and won't be getting my vote either.

    Catherine Murphy and the Social Democrats will remain impotent, in or out of Government, but I wouldn't bet any money against her topping the poll in KN.


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    #56
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The "clinics" are the epitome of mé-féinism as they're usually about getting council houses or medical card etc. Bernard Durkan made the papers as he asked, and continues to ask, a huge number of questions in the Dáil about specific asylum cases. As many of the people he enquired about were not Kildare North residents, he seems to have become a bit of a "go to" man for asylum seekers and other immigrants having issues with their status.

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2015-11-26a.370

    Deputy Dawg would survive an electoral nuclear war in Kildare North and the clientelism is a huge and unbreakable part of that. No fan of his, but no amount of hand wringing about the nature of Irish politics will change that.

    I'm willing to predict three out of the four now. Murphy, Stagg and Durkan will make the cut. Fourth seat will be a toss up between FF and SF. Don't put money on the bookies on this basis though!


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    #57
    BaronVon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭BaronVon


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Fourth seat will be a toss up between FF and SF.

    I'll have to give FF my number 1 in that case so.....


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    #58
    BaronVon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭BaronVon


    u90KIN.jpg

    Current odds from PP. It's how I would see it, 3 incumbents returned, and James Lawless taking Anthony Lawlor's seat.


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    #59
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Interesting. I can see Stagg losing his seat myself but he might scrape in. I think Young will poll better than Merriman - neither to get a seat of course.


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    #60
    Buffman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭Buffman


    I don't think I'll be going beyond a 2nd or possibly 3rd preference with that list of candidates. It's a pity SD are not running a second candidate with Murphy.

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles to avoid the DRS fee.



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    #61
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Paddy power don't show the entire list. Current declared candidates are:

    Réada Cronin, Sinn Fein
    Bernard Durkan, Fine Gael
    Shane Fitzgerald, Renua Ireland
    James Lawless, Fianna Fáil
    Anthony Lawlor, Fine Gael
    Ashling Merriman, PBPA
    Catherine Murphy, Social Democrats
    Maebh Ní Fhallún, Green
    Frank O'Rourke, Fianna Fáil
    Emmett Stagg , Labour
    Brendan Young, Community Solidarity


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