Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 15/16

Osmosis Jones

Season rests on the United game now. Lose that and we might as well start looking towards the summer.

Gbear

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Overall thought we did well, Can and Lucas were immense all game. Firmino had a shocker, lost count of the amount of times he lost the ball or just gave it away. Penalties is a lottery, weve had our share of luck in them. Move on and look forward.

I think that's just the way Firmino's game is.
He's not really neat and tidy and then does a good thing - it's very hot and cold.
He had a lot of excellent play today as well.

There seems to be the touch of the Luis Garcia about him, albeit neither as sublime or ridiculous.

Some games you'll want to sacrifice a bit of possession for a bit more threat.
Probably not against a superior team, mind you, but he's our only other real attacking option for the time being.

Ideally we'll get another option in so we can have different tools for different jobs.

Charlie19

I thought they were too reliant on Milner for creativity, up until we scored nearly every play came down the left through Milner.

Lucas was solid, he wasn't even booked.

No point being critical about the penalties.

Another good performance finishing with dissapointment though, this has to stop.

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

Milner has been piss poor for us.......disappointing and I wasn't expecting him to be amazing.......a player we could absolutely do without. Lallana similar, if he showed half the fight while playing that he did squaring up to Toure he might raise his game above a 6.

Firmino and Sturridge were disappointing today also. Moreno/Mignolet are the most frustrating players to watch......they'd give you a headache.....

Both Milner and Lallana were excellent today.

Granted, Milner really started flagging at 70-odd minutes but prior to that he was very good. At that stage the only reason to keep him on was for penalties and then he didn't even take one.
He could barely stand by the end.

Prior to Lallana coming on we barely had a shot. I think he came on and changed things, including having a big hand in the goal. It wasn't quite enough unfortunately, but I'd have him over one of the midfield 3 in a heartbeat.

I thought Sturridge looked a lot better with the subs on.
He was a lot less isolated when he was coming in from deeper positions or out wide. Origi did well enough on his own, but allowing Sturridge to bring more of an impact was a big deal, and something I hope we look at going forward.

BorneTobyWilde

Man City were tight at the back
Full backs rarely ventured. It was difficult for our front three.

Osmosis Jones

The front three get absolutely no support from the midfield, that's where we need to improve the most.

Charlie19

Classic Lallana doing a step over while waking up to take a spot kick.

Yakult

8-10 wrote: »

Huh?

its fine practicing shots, but you don't have 90k people around you while doing so and you cant factor in emotions, form and fatigue after the 120 minutes.

livinginkorea

I was surprised that Sturridge lasted the whole game and the extra time. I was sure we would see him coming off.

Gbear

Charlie19 wrote: »

I thought they were too reliant on Milner for creativity, up until we scored nearly every play came down the left through Milner.

Lucas was solid, he wasn't even booked.

No point being critical about the penalties.

Another good performance finishing with dissapointment though, this has to stop.

In general we get forced out wide a lot.

The problem is that neither Clyne nor Moreno can cross and Milner can't really beat a man, so he's only really effective at crossing from deep, and we seldom could get in behind today, nor did we have much in the box.

I think Lallana pushed more of our game into the middle and Sturridge - a much bigger threat, into wider areas where he had more space to operate.
But if we're not going to play that way than we need about 4 new options out wide because we currently have nothing.

ben.schlomo

Also thought Milner did well, apart from his piss poor set pieces (again), Lallana also did well as an impact sub.

Vicxas

Tough to swallow but by and large we didn't deserve it, too many passengers today.

BorneTobyWilde

livinginkorea wrote: »

I was surprised that Sturridge lasted the whole game and the extra time. I was sure we would see him coming off.

On field but took very little part in extra time
He was shattered

Gbear

Vicxas wrote: »

Tough to swallow but by and large we didn't deserve it, too many passengers today.

Don't think that's even vaguely fair.
Everyone contributed.

Unfortunately, City are a much better team, and our set up was more geared towards defending than attacking.

Just because you lost doesn't mean you have to blame anyone.
Except Mignolet.

If you're going to play defensively, then you can't be letting in half-chances like that.

monkey9

Carragher criticising Moreno there and rightly so. He's a poor poor player who provides us with nothing. He shouldn't be in the team.

54and56

Carragher just threw Moreno and Mingolet under the bus. "Klopp has to sort out both positions in the summer." and "Moreno has to come out of the team and Flanagan has to come in Wednesday.".

Hard to argue with that really.

Utopia Parkway

monkey9 wrote: »

Carragher criticising Moreno there and rightly so. He's a poor poor player who provides us with nothing. He shouldn't be in the team.

Has zero defensive instincts. Or a brain. He's quick but that's about it.

monkey9

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

Shame about the Peno but Lucas was Fcuking Boss today!

Absolutely immense. Give the bloke a new contract. He loves the club and wants to stay and with performances like that, it's a no brainer to keep him on.

Utopia Parkway

Klopp saying Sturridge couldn't take a pen as he had really bad cramp by the end.

And Milner was due to take the 5th pen.

monkey9

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Has zero defensive instincts. Or a brain. He's quick but that's about it.

He's nothing defensively or attacking wise. Yeah he gets forward in terms that he runs in the direction away from our goal, but i can do that.

Gbear

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Has zero defensive instincts. Or a brain. He's quick but that's about it.

He's technically decent as well.
Links well with the midfield.

But the crucial thing for me is that he's an attacking full back who is an absolute disaster at crossing the ball.

No thought put into it, usually fails to clear the first man and almost always along the ground.

Could be decent at a lower level where the demands are lower - that pace and technique could cause some teams problems, and if you're playing more defensively anyway you might have better cover.

Still, in the grand scheme of things LBs contribute **** all to the cause and while I think he should be improved upon, it's a very low priority unless Klopp really wants to put a lot of the onus for our attack on that position.

Turtyturd

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Also thought Milner did well, apart from his piss poor set pieces (again), Lallana also did well as an impact sub.

Always surprises me how people can take away such different opinions from the same thing.

Thought Can played well, Henderson invisible bar his shouting 'F*ck off' at the linesman, Milner was noticeable for all the wrong reasons. dire for the initial 90, improved slightly in injury time but still rubbish overall. Would love to see Origi start the next game ahead of him and move Coutinho deeper.

As with Mignolet, if Milner is a starter next season we're f*cked.

rob316

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Carragher just threw Moreno and Mingolet under the bus. "Klopp has to sort out both positions in the summer." and "Moreno has to come out of the team and Flanagan has to come in Wednesday.".

Hard to argue with that really.

Moreno is a piss poor player shouldn't be starting at all. Carra spot on and pulling no punches.

Turtyturd

Carragher bigging up the local lad over Johnny Foreigner when it's much of muchness, well I never.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The tax man is after Alonso.

Stephen French :eek: :eek:

mav79

The frustrating part of our problems with keepers and at left back is that we don't even need world class players there, just competent solid players.

rob316

Turtyturd wrote: »

Carragher bigging up the local lad over Johnny Foreigner when it's much of muchness, well I never.

That's bollox, flanagan was brilliant before he got injured and we almost won the league. Moreno just costs us goal after goal. He's thick as ****, no end product and **** positional sense. I'd have Smith ahead of him too ffs.

I'm saying it all season hook him and coco the clown in between the posts and we will start to look alot better.

monkey9

rob316 wrote: »

That's bollox, flanagan was brilliant before he got injured and we almost won the league. Moreno just costs us goal after goal. He's thick as ****, no end product and **** positional sense. I'd have Smith ahead of him too ffs.

I'm saying it all season hook him and coco the clown in between the posts and we will start to look alot better.

He absolutely should be getting a run of games.

Gbear

monkey9 wrote: »

He absolutely should be getting a run of games.

With Gomez (I'm assuming he'll properly recover) and Smith as well, I really don't think it's something we should be wasting our money on at this point.

If fixing your full backs is your most pressing concern, then the rest of your team better be bloody brilliant.

Turtyturd

Turtyturd wrote: »

............ Milner was noticeable for all the wrong reasons. dire for the initial 90, improved slightly in injury time but still rubbish overall. Would love to see Origi start the next game ahead of him and move Coutinho deeper.

As with Mignolet, if Milner is a starter next season we're f*cked.

With Milner moved to left back when Lallana came on we were much better, now I doubt Milner is a significant improvement on Moreno at left back to Milner getting some bench time seems to be an idea

I too would very much love to see Origi start alongside Sturridge, some 4 4 2, maybe play Milner on the wing, Coutinho as a propor 10 and Hendo & Can together.

Mignolet is after becoming one of our biggest problems, he came back well last season after being dropped for Brad Jones but this year all of his weaknesses & frailties are back and appearing frequently.

The good thing about this is that it's relatively easily fixed, a GK ing upgrade shouldn't be hard to find. His extension was just good business practice, get him out the door for £10m ish over the summer.

murpho999

monkey9 wrote: »

He's nothing defensively or attacking wise. Yeah he gets forward in terms that he runs in the direction away from our goal, but i can do that.

rob316 wrote: »

Moreno is a piss poor player shouldn't be starting at all. Carra spot on and pulling no punches.

Agree totally.

He''s a brain dead liability who costs us more than he gives.

A poster in the match thread says he's he's a great attacking outlet all thanks to Cafu. Total rubbish.

Harry Palmr

Lucas was superb just a pity he didn't convert the peno, him and Kolo are the most convincing least obvious CB paring I know of! That he is playing as a CB is interesting, is it just a short term measure or not. He has looked perfectly at home, the rest of the reason will give us a clue if he has a future at the club but I think he should be kept and play Matip as a DM maybe.


Sturridge is an issue, he was too often not quite at the pace of the play and lose with his passing. Origi again looks like a player worth starting - making direct runs caused the City defence a few problems they were not having earlier.

Coutinho blew hot and cold Firmino likewise but not helped for me by Studge

Milner was actually pretty good but for the balls he makes of dead balls, Hendo is clearly not actually at the races, Can ran about a lot and did plenty of unglamorous stuff.

Clyne did pretty well, Moreno really should have just swept that ball in :mad:

Mignolet with another "rickets" and yet other good saves - he really has issues with balls that come in at a relatively narrow angle doesn't he?. Its actually strange he is often beaten at his near post.

NukaCola

Gbear wrote: »

Both Milner and Lallana were excellent today.

Completely disagree.....excellent? Can barely think of two or 3 good things they done, not sure how that adds up to excellent......Lucas was what I'd class as excellent, Milner and Lallana were what they usually are 6/7 out of 10.....nothing but squad filler IMO....

NukaCola

Moreno will be 24 in July.......he's not a good LB and not effective enough to be a LM or LW........decent enough cover.........

klose

Missed the game as was working, pretty gutted but that's football.! Season now hinges on the 2 games v united in the Europa and if the players can't get fired up for that then hopefully that will be the axe swung on their career here. Onwards....

NukaCola

Very Happy with Origi.......and although I wasn't excited by Ings signing I'd still have him over Benteke, who looks finished at the club......

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

Completely disagree.....excellent? Can barely think of two or 3 good things they done, not sure how that adds up to excellent......Lucas was what I'd class as excellent, Milner and Lallana were what they usually are 6/7 out of 10.....nothing but squad filler IMO....

Fine. Excellent was hyperbolic. They were both good and did their jobs to a high standard.

It's not about through balls or shots on goal that they produced.

Lallana gave us, for the first time, some capacity to hang onto the ball, he created space for the rest of the attack, he gave us higher quality of ball around their box and he created a bigger threat in behind - eventually leading directly to Coutinho's goal.
Every aspect of our attacking play improved when he came on, although Origi had a hand in that when he came on as well.

Granted - moving Coutinho in there and putting someone else on up front would've worked too, but we didn't really have anyone else except Ibe.

There's a reason why our best results this season have tended to come with Lallana on the pitch.
Not all players, not even attackers, are purely measured in goals and assists. We simply attack better when he's there.

On Milner, he did his job well. I don't think it was necessarily the right job that needed doing, but he himself did pretty much everything he needed to in possession and as usual, went above and beyond in application.

I've been carping on about the trio of Milner/Hendo/Can being too conservative for ages, as have half the Liverpool fans I've seen. It's not the players fault that that's the case though.

Having said that, maybe had we gone more offensive from the start and had Origi or Lallana in there City would've just battered us 4-0. There's value in it. I just don't think it works on balance.

It's not because players are necessarily underperforming though - first and foremost they're the wrong tools for the job.

mikeym

klose wrote: »

Missed the game as was working, pretty gutted but that's football.! Season now hinges on the 2 games v united in the Europa and if the players can't get fired up for that then hopefully that will be the axe swung on their career here. Onwards....

If we lose again to Utd I will be very disillusioned with the club.

I hate losing to Utd especially at Anfield.

cj maxx

rob316 wrote: »

That's bollox, flanagan was brilliant before he got injured and we almost won the league. Moreno just costs us goal after goal. He's thick as ****, no end product and **** positional sense. I'd have Smith ahead of him too ffs.

I'm saying it all season hook him and coco the clown in between the posts and we will start to look alot better.

Agree about moreno though i thonk he'd be a good impact sub further up the pitch

cj maxx

rob316 wrote: »

That's bollox, flanagan was brilliant before he got injured and we almost won the league. Moreno just costs us goal after goal. He's thick as ****, no end product and **** positional sense. I'd have Smith ahead of him too ffs.

I'm saying it all season hook him and coco the clown in between the posts and we will start to look alot better.

Agree about moreno though i thonk he'd be a good impact sub further up the pitch

Turtyturd

Meh, Flanagan looked solid defensively in a team that other teams were wary of attacking. They myth of his ability has been confounded by him being out injured for so long, him being a local lad, and the whole Cafu nickname. There's a reason we couldn't get anyone to take him on loan shortly before that.

Moreno has his flaws but also gets very little credit on here for anything he contributes.

rob316

Turtyturd wrote: »

Meh, Flanagan looked solid defensively in a team that other teams were wary of attacking. They myth of his ability has been confounded by him being out injured for so long, him being a local lad, and the whole Cafu nickname. There's a reason we couldn't get anyone to take him on loan shortly before that.

Moreno has his flaws but also gets very little credit on here for anything he contributes.

What does moreno contribute? I'm ****ing scratching my head here pal, maybe you can help me out.

kingshankly

Can't understand how Moreno has any fans
Can't defend runs as quick as he can (which is quick in fairness) then kicks the ball as hard as he can across the box without lifting his head
What I wouldn't give for a Fabio aurelio

Charlie19

The thing that bugs me the most about moreno Is his decision making..

I find myself scratching my head, saying Why Why Why?

monkey9

Turtyturd wrote: »

Meh, Flanagan looked solid defensively in a team that other teams were wary of attacking. They myth of his ability has been confounded by him being out injured for so long, him being a local lad, and the whole Cafu nickname. There's a reason we couldn't get anyone to take him on loan shortly before that.

Moreno has his flaws but also gets very little credit on here for anything he contributes.

I don't rate Flanagan that highly myself. He's getting a lot of leeway because he's a local so he has that advantage. I expect Flanagan to leave the club over the next couple of years and then eventually drop down a division.

There's no excuse for Moreno though apart from the fee we paid for him. He just doesn't cut it. Too much defensive error and no end product going forward.

Brad Smith should be getting a run now otherwise what's the point of him of being there. And if he ends being not good enough, fine. We head out and buy another left back. But let's give what we have here at the moment a chance.

Pyjamarama

rob316 wrote: »

What does moreno contribute? I'm ****ing scratching my head here pal, maybe you can help me out.

He's an outlet. He's not amazing but there's very few fullbacks that are. He also has really good recovery speed, which is good as he defo needs it. He could really use leader alongside him to help him out. We lack that more than almost anything else. From keeper to the front. We have nobody to grab the team and give them a proper bollocking.

NukaCola

What was the point in recalling Ward from what was reported to be a successful spell of first team football in Scotland if he's not going to get a chance? Would like to see him start a few games.....a lot of the other young players got a chance in the first team I can only assume that Ward will get the same chance?

Turtyturd

NukaCola wrote: »

What was the point in recalling Ward from what was reported to be a successful spell of first team football in Scotland if he's not going to get a chance? Would like to see him start a few games.....a lot of the other young players got a chance in the first team I can only assume that Ward will get the same chance?

Found that strange today alright, Ginger Mig on the bench.

monkey9

Pyjamarama wrote: »

He's an outlet. He's not amazing but there's very few fullbacks that are. He also has really good recovery speed, which is good as he defo needs it. He could really use leader alongside him to help him out. We lack that more than almost anything else. From keeper to the front. We have nobody to grab the team and give them a proper bollocking.

Moreno is not an outlet. The point of an outlet is to give a breather to the team, add something different and give an attacking option, even calm things down at times when needs be. He doesn't do that. He runs, he falls over, he loses the ball, he crosses poorly, he dives into stupid tackles giving away free kicks and penalties etc.

He's not an outlet, he's a liability.

Gbear

monkey9 wrote: »

Moreno is not an outlet. The point of an outlet is to give a breather to the team, add something different and give an attacking option, even calm things down at times when needs be. He doesn't do that. He runs, he falls over, he loses the ball, he crosses poorly, he dives into stupid tackles giving away free kicks and penalties etc.

He's not an outlet, he's a liability.

Don't forget when he dives and then rolls around on the floor pretending to be injured while we get counter-attacked.