Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 15/16

Muahahaha

Turtyturd wrote: »

Benteke has no right to be complaining Ibe didn't cut that back.

I was watching Benteke like a hawk last night and his positioning really is poor. He was moaning that Ibe didn't cut it back by sticking his two hands out. Even if Ibe had of cut it back it would have been intercepted because Benteke was standing there like a statue instead of running toward the penalty spot to take it on

Hangballlouie wrote: »

5-0 against Utd on Sunday and we can go 6th. #believe

If we play with that same tempo that we did in the first half last night I reckon Utd won't be able to handle us. We ran Arsenal ragged at times last night, the passing through midfield was crisp and quick

As for Sakho he had a good and a bad game. People are forgetting his positioning was spot on in the first half when he headed a certain goal off the line and into the Kop. He should have done better for the second goal

Overall I thought it was a superb performance, especially given our current injuries. Obviously we might have had 3 points if Mig wasn't so sh1t but I'll tell ye what, that performance was a world away from what we saw against West Ham just a few weeks ago. There was a lot of positives to take out of the game last night and Klopp is clearly making progress with this squad.

Does anyone know did the Kop acknowledge Rafa in the stands last night? Great to see him there after the week he's just had.

Vicxas

Watching the game again and Mig is so culpable for the second goal it isn't funny.

Dickerty

kingshankly wrote: »

Mignolet terrible for the first goal can't blame him for the second no way that ball should reach him
And the girod touch changes the direction of the ball
Sakho needs to deal with the cross

Definately not covered himself in glory for the first, but with the pace of the shot, I just think he has little chance of stopping it. The second is a mess, but he should be coming our Schmeichel style to cover any touch at the near post, it's too reactive to give himself any chance...

prettyboy81

Team i'd play against the Mancs on Sunday, some are picked as no other options but I think this team deliver 3 pts playing a 4-2-3-1 with pass, power, tempo & please some defensive cohesion.

Mignolet

Clyne Toure Sakho Moreno (Same back 5 again, cannot pick Caulker over either CB, he can have his start versus Exeter)

Joe Allen Henderson (Tempted to play Lucas over Allen but Joe Allen is a goal threat from midfield )

Ibe Can Lallana (Push Can a little further forward but he will support 2 man midfield, Milner/Lallana tight call)

Firmino (Goals Goals Goals please)

TitianGerm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I was watching Benteke like a hawk last night and his positioning really is poor. He was moaning that Ibe didn't cut it back by sticking his two hands out. Even if Ibe had of cut it back it would have been intercepted because Benteke was standing there like a statue instead of running toward the penalty spot to take it on

If we play with that same tempo that we did in the first half last night I reckon Utd won't be able to handle us. We ran Arsenal ragged at times last night, the passing through midfield was crisp and quick

As for Sakho he had a good and a bad game. People are forgetting his positioning was spot on in the first half when he headed a certain goal off the line and into the Kop. He should have done better for the second goal

Overall I thought it was a superb performance, especially given our current injuries. Obviously we might have had 3 points if Mig wasn't so sh1t but I'll tell ye what, that performance was a world away from what we saw against West Ham just a few weeks ago. There was a lot of positives to take out of the game last night and Klopp is clearly making progress with this squad.

Does anyone know did the Kop acknowledge Rafa in the stands last night? Great to see him there after the week he's just had.

Like loads have said Arsenal came to play and it suited us. United will play with 10 behind the ball and pass side to side until we fall asleep from boredom and then they will score and win 1-0

mav79

I'll admit I'm a huge fan of Sakho, I love an aggressive defender, he has his flaws but hell every defender does. He was not great last night but I thought he had an ok game against Giroud who is playing brilliantly lately.
People who are slating him for the third goal where he ends up on his ass, did ye not notice the deflection off Moreno that changed the direction of the ball putting it straight to Giroud? He was moving to his left before the deflection.
For the second he bails Mignolet and Toure out by heading the ball over the bar, and then Giroud gets a great nick on the ball while competing with Sakho. Lallana vacates the front post and Mignolet lets the ball in between his legs.
For the first he could have got across quicker but as I've said before Milner and Moreno making a half-hearted attempt against Campbell, and Mignolet getting beaten at his near post was worse.

Its like as if people are waiting for him to misplace a pass to slate him, if one of every ten forward passes go straight to the opposition its still better than hoofing the ball out of defence straight to the opposition. A lot of fans love a defender to just get rid and ignore the fact you are losing possession straight away. That seemingly doesn't count as losing possession. For me Sakho would be the first name on the teamsheet and you would have to buy two top quality CB's before I would think differently, and I've yet to see us even be linked with one defender of that quality.

NukaCola

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Not if the two hands fell off.

Still a better goalie than Mignolet

NukaCola

mav79 wrote: »

I'll admit I'm a huge fan of Sakho, I love an aggressive defender, he has his flaws but hell every defender does. He was not great last night but I thought he had an ok game against Giroud who is playing brilliantly lately.

Giroud scored 2 and missed a sitter, how can you you say he had a good game against him?

Turtyturd

monkey9 wrote: »

You're so out of touch. We were simply celebrating drawing at home with West Brom. F*ck sake man, have you not 'read' the humour thread.

Tis a great filter for the most part. :pac:

Still disappointed about last night, were well worth the three points but probably would have taken a point before the game considering our injuries so can't complain too much.

A lot of knives seem to be coming out for Sakho but as has been said he is our best defender and only gets better with a run of games. The main things I'd have issue with were his fall in the box, obviously genuinely slipped but it looked like he knew he was beat and fell to the ground, a couple of passes out of the back which went straight to an Arsenal midfielder, and one time where he held onto the ball too long out at the touch line and got dispossessed lead to a counter for them.

But the other side of it is that he made some great interceptions and passes that his critics seem to ignore.

NukaCola

Sakho is a good defender. Probably our best CB. But he was ****e last night, and considering his fitness etc its hardly surprising.

Some people are dying to get a dig in, others are defending him, but lets just call it, he was poor last night and hope he improves against Utd.

djPSB

Don't know why Rodgers doesn't bring in a defensive coach.

mav79

NukaCola wrote: »

Giroud scored 2 and missed a sitter, how can you you say he had a good game against him?

I said I thought he played ok, and we are talking about Giroud, not Gestede here. And as for the goals I explained in my earlier post how I thought they were conceeded. The game is 90 minutes not just a highlight reel, how many times in the game did Sakho win headers against Giroud or outmuscle him to intercept a pass to feet. Like I said I thought he did ok, not good, but not bad either. We drew with an Arsenal side top of the table, a bit of perspective is needed.

Francie Barrett

djPSB wrote: »

Don't know why Rodgers doesn't bring in a defensive coach.

Maybe we can appoint Rodgers as the defensive coach :pac:

8-10

First half last night was a throwback to Newcastle in April 1996 (4-3) - blistering stuff. Didn't hold up in the 2nd half unfortunately but great game overall

NukaCola

mav79 wrote: »

I said I thought he played ok, and we are talking about Giroud, not Gestede here. And as for the goals I explained in my earlier post how I thought they were conceeded. The game is 90 minutes not just a highlight reel, how many times in the game did Sakho win headers against Giroud or outmuscle him to intercept a pass to feet. Like I said I thought he did ok, not good, but not bad either. We drew with an Arsenal side top of the table, a bit of perspective is needed.

So ok is being destroyed by a CF? Sure he intercepted a few passes and won a few headers but when it absolutely counted he was robbed by Giroud.

He was poor overall. I dont understand how being part of a CB pairing that conceded 3 goals, and bar an absolute howler from Giroud should have conceded 4, can be deemed ok by anyone. Although Mignolet was awful also. We drew against an Arsenal team that we would have well beaten but for the awful defending on show.

NukaCola

djPSB wrote: »

Don't know why Rodgers doesn't bring in a defensive coach.

Maybe he could have bought players who could actually defend instead.

ben.schlomo

Sakhos pass completion was 92% last night,just thought I'd share.

noodler

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Did you watch him earlier this season? He was superb for us. Like all the rest on here who slate him regularly you're more focused on your opinion being correct than in any real dissection of his ability or how he's played when fit. He's clearly the most talented if our 4 senior cbs. Anyone who would rather lovren, toure or skrtel is crazy.

No cb has ever made skrtel look good. It's not possible as he defends 5 yards deeper than the rest.

The Sakho stuff is the same as those who want moreno replaced. Ludicrous stuff. Also both are very important when it comes to setting up our attacks as both are excellent on the ball... unless of course you think Sakho us a rubbish passed too.

I think it's wrong to put Sakho in the same bracket as moreno. Sakho has shown he can defend.

ynwa_17

We were crying out for someone like Markovic last night. Ibe is a good option to have off the bench, but he doesn't have the end product to have him starting consistently in these big games. Monreal had him in his back pocket last night, which wasn't hard as he kept doing the same thing over and over again.

NukaCola

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Sakhos pass completion was 92% last night,just thought I'd share.

If we had a point for every time someone mentioned Sakhos pass completion we'd be well clear in the league.

Colemania

ynwa_17 wrote: »

We were crying out for someone like Markovic last night. Ibe is a good option to have off the bench, but he doesn't have the end product to have him starting consistently in these big games. Monreal had him in his back pocket last night, which wasn't hard as he kept doing the same thing over and over again.

I know it's only the Turkish league but I've seen clips of his recent games and he seems to be playing well. Making a lot of dribbles throughout the the middle of the field with his blistering pace but tends not to stay out wide too much. Does give away the ball a lot still and he's very light but he's still so young and could develop into a very good player.

Pyjamarama

NukaCola wrote: »

So ok is being destroyed by a CF? Sure he intercepted a few passes and won a few headers but when it absolutely counted he was robbed by Giroud.

He was poor overall. I dont understand how being part of a CB pairing that conceded 3 goals, and bar an absolute howler from Giroud should have conceded 4, can be deemed ok by anyone. Although Mignolet was awful also. We drew against an Arsenal team that we would have well beaten but for the awful defending on show.

I don't think koscielny had a bad game and his team could easily have conceded 4 too. Sometimes it's the striker doing great and not the cb doing poorly. It's not as black abe white as "well the scored so he was bad". Last night Sakho was OK, if that was his ceiling he wouldn't be good enough to start for us but we all know it's not. I don't think anyone is saying he was good last night, just defending him against the people who think our limited resources should be spent on replacing our best cb.

We should also replace Can too. And Klopp... sure pep is available. A club like Liverpool should be challenging on all fronts with world class players in all positions no matter what.

mav79

NukaCola wrote: »

So ok is being destroyed by a CF?

When was he destroyed by Giroud?

First goal: clash of heads with Giroud, Toure heads straight to an Arsenal player, Milner and Moreno get sold by Campbell and Mignolet gets beaten at the near post.
Second goal: Giroud nicks the ball past Sakho, after Lallana vacates the front post and Mignolet lets the ball through his legs.
Third goal: Sakho moving to his left to intercept the ball, ball takes a deflection and ends up at Giroud who is being marked by Toure and he scores a cracker.

Sakho doesn't cover himself in glory but blaming him for last nights defeat is crazy.

Pyjamarama

noodler wrote: »

I think it's wrong to put Sakho in the same bracket as moreno. Sakho has shown he can defend.

So has Moreno. It's not his strength but it's also not the most important attribute in a modern fullback. You might not like it but that's modern football. Blame cafu.

Bellerin getting linked with a move to barca and he's no better at defending than Moreno.

x43r0

Ibe seriously needs to start mixing up his play and put some crosses into the box

The amount of times last night he tried and failed to beat the man on the outside was as painful as it was predictable. Monreal must have been delighted with it

Speak Now

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Sakhos pass completion was 92% last night,just thought I'd share.

Useless stat when you the pass could be to someone facing their own goal putting the team back under pressure.

TitianGerm

mav79 wrote: »

When was he destroyed by Giroud?

First goal: clash of heads with Giroud, Toure heads straight to an Arsenal player, Milner and Moreno get sold by Campbell and Mignolet gets beaten at the near post.
Second goal: Giroud nicks the ball past Sakho, after Lallana vacates the front post and Mignolet lets the ball through his legs.
Third goal: Sakho moving to his left to intercept the ball, ball takes a deflection and ends up at Giroud who is being marked by Toure and he scores a cracker.

Sakho doesn't cover himself in glory but blaming him for last nights defeat is crazy.

That's what I was thinking. For his first game back against a very attacking team and a player doing as well as Giroud I thought Shako did well enough.

Pyjamarama

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Useless stat when you the pass could be to someone facing their own goal putting the team back under pressure.

But they weren't. Sakho makes such a difference as a Base for our attacks.

I'm a big Sakho fan but he was very average last night. He was rusty as hell.

Jesus Wept

rob316

I could watch a video of Klopp celebrating all day, the guy is passion personified.

He got it spot on tactically last night, I've been really impressed with him in our big games.

D'Agger

I'm a Sahko fan but there's one thing about his play that's bothering me & it's nothing to do with rustiness, fitness, lack of playing time.

Too often the ball gets played around outside the box and Sahko looks to step in and nullify it - except far too often by doing this he's breaking the line of defence and the ball gets played around him. Happened last night and it's happened in plenty of other matches too - carbon copy - he lunges in somewhat, quick one-two and the opposition are one on one with Mig.

I don't think Moreno is helping him atall - a LB should immediately get goal side if a CB comes out of position like that and he never does it, always seems a half-yard behind.

Knex*

x43r0 wrote: »

Ibe seriously needs to start mixing up his play and put some crosses into the box

The amount of times last night he tried and failed to beat the man on the outside was as painful as it was predictable. Monreal must have been delighted with it

He tried to cross the ball a few times in the 2nd half, but wasn't very good at that either, unfortunately.

mav79

You could spend quite a lot of time writing about how much is wrong with our set piece defending from this pic.

kingshankly

mav79 wrote: »

You could spend quite a lot of time writing about how much is wrong with our set piece defending from this pic.

Sakho and toure have to be goal side

Why do we not cover the posts?

Demosthenese

D'Agger wrote: »

I'm a Sahko fan but there's one thing about his play that's bothering me & it's nothing to do with rustiness, fitness, lack of playing time.

Too often the ball gets played around outside the box and Sahko looks to step in and nullify it - except far too often by doing this he's breaking the line of defence and the ball gets played around him. Happened last night and it's happened in plenty of other matches too - carbon copy - he lunges in somewhat, quick one-two and the opposition are one on one with Mig.

I don't think Moreno is helping him atall - a LB should immediately get goal side if a CB comes out of position like that and he never does it, always seems a half-yard behind.

For me, i hate seeing my Centre Half on his arse at more or less ANY point in the game unless it's a last ditch tackle where he needs to go for it. Sahko since pretty much i've seen him as you say - lunges in too much to win the ball and it sticks out worse these days since he is clearly not match fit. Sign of a good CB is when he dominates the attackers, stays tall and strong, good positional play - a person of authority you might say. Sahkos timing for headers even is not the greatest and that worries me. The great centre halfs are are completely dominant in the air. Think of any top class CB since the PL began losing a header like he did to Giroud last night (Which lead to the goal) - Ferdinand/Vidic - Carra/Hypia - Adams/Keown - Terry/Cahill ... there is just no way they lose stupid headers and do not end up on their backsides at all.

I'd also suggest they win a large portion of the headers from corners ... which is rightly so.

I still like Sahko - but it is more so cos his attitude is usually spot on and he is our better option.

Demosthenese

Knex. wrote: »

He tried to cross the ball a few times in the 2nd half, but wasn't very good at that either, unfortunately.

On Ibe, he was up against Monreal last night and although usually i'd suggest that Arsenal fullbacks are traditionally poor in defence but great going forward, Monreal is very quick. He was not afraid to let Ibe run at him and more often than not had the measure of Ibe - so much so that Ibe had a period where he didn't know what to do to get past him and simply ran into him??? Klopp switched him briefly to the left wing then back to the nearside.

I quite enjoyed the matchup cos Ibe still got some joy out of the wing even though it was restricted. His final ball let him down but the one where he played the 1-2 and failed to pick out Lallana/Benteke could have been the moment that we were all raving about this morning ... he probably lacks composure but just to be Cliche - he will get better with games. Let's not forget he is only now getting a proper run in the side. Sterling used to be a little like this too remember - he is very young and games like that will stand to him. Lets judge after another 10-15 games ...

I'd still prefer to see Ibe and Clyne on the overlap on our right side rather than Clyne playing with out of position Hendo/Firminio or whatever.

doc_17

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Did you watch him earlier this season? He was superb for us. Like all the rest on here who slate him regularly you're more focused on your opinion being correct than in any real dissection of his ability or how he's played when fit. He's clearly the most talented if our 4 senior cbs. Anyone who would rather lovren, toure or skrtel is crazy.

No cb has ever made skrtel look good. It's not possible as he defends 5 yards deeper than the rest.

The Sakho stuff is the same as those who want moreno replaced. Ludicrous stuff. Also both are very important when it comes to setting up our attacks as both are excellent on the ball... unless of course you think Sakho us a rubbish passed too.

You're watching a different player. Whilst he may have been better earlier in the season no one was "superb" for us for any stretch of time.

I wasn't blaming him for making Skrtel look bad, I was making the counter point against what so many of his fans on here say about him....that he is being made look bad by others around him.

And no need to get personal, I'm not more concerned about being right than seeing him playing well. I support Liverpool.

If anything, it's people who believe he is somehow this incredible defender who never plays well on any kind of a consistent basis that seem to be more concerned about being right about him and want to see him play regardless of how many mistakes he makes that is bewildering.

LuckyLloyd

The squad is poor, that's the bottom line. Tusky called it the other day - we just don't have any players that you could label "World Class" with a straight face. The reality is that Klopp has been given a poorly structured squad filled with okay players like Lollana who wouldn't have a place in a post Christmas Champions League XI (where we need to get to over the next two years or so). It's January and we have a glut of fixtures; an injury crisis; and do or die games each week. Klopp is in the trenches of trying to coach this team up and wring results out of them so in that context a loanee cover signing makes sense. We can focus on redressing the deficiencies in the squad over the summer.

Until we start to see the squad being overhauled, we have to accept frustrating results and inconsistency. But if our good days can come at the right times who knows what we might win before the season is out. What I can say is I like the passion on display in the big games, I like that we're digging in right now and forcing things to happen. Klopp screams big goals and an expectation of scaling the mountaintop. There's no loser talk about '5th place being par' or other nonsense.

We'll get there. Keep the faith.

Pepp1989

My problem with Sakho is that he is injured a lot and takes time on the pitch to get back up to speed. He needs to put a good run of games together.

djPSB

NukaCola wrote: »

Maybe he could have bought players who could actually defend instead.

He did try sign Steven Caulker to be fair.

djPSB

Demosthenese wrote: »

On Ibe, he was up against Monreal last night and although usually i'd suggest that Arsenal fullbacks are traditionally poor in defence but great going forward, Monreal is very quick. He was not afraid to let Ibe run at him and more often than not had the measure of Ibe - so much so that Ibe had a period where he didn't know what to do to get past him and simply ran into him??? Klopp switched him briefly to the left wing then back to the nearside.

I quite enjoyed the matchup cos Ibe still got some joy out of the wing even though it was restricted. His final ball let him down but the one where he played the 1-2 and failed to pick out Lallana/Benteke could have been the moment that we were all raving about this morning ... he probably lacks composure but just to be Cliche - he will get better with games. Let's not forget he is only now getting a proper run in the side. Sterling used to be a little like this too remember - he is very young and games like that will stand to him. Lets judge after another 10-15 games ...

I'd still prefer to see Ibe and Clyne on the overlap on our right side rather than Clyne playing with out of position Hendo/Firminio or whatever.

The reality is that Ibe's output isn't currently good enough for a team with top 4 aspirations.

Same with Lallana.

K-9

K-9 wrote: »

You gave a sarky reaponse, you got one back. As long as you can take it as well as give it, no problems.

God love ya if you think saying he's missed when not playing is a sarcy response. You must take it a lot if your threshold is so low.

Gaillimh1976

D'Agger wrote: »

a LB should immediately get goal side if a CB comes out of position like that .

Thought Joe Gomez was very good at that in his few games at LB
Maybe because he's naturally a CB

slingerz

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Because a) Sakho isn't fully fit and is still our best cb. He mad some really good interceptions when we were 2-3 down. people still focus on the Welsh xavi rubbish (he's clearly pirlo). And there's lots of posters giving out yards about Sakho tonight. Even tho he wasn't that bad... well in comparison to the clown in net.

Sakho has been poor on multiple occasions.

The only player in our back 5 that i would be happy to keep would be Clyne

MD1990

A huge problem with Ibe is his off the ball movement . Needs to get into goalscoring positions more often. Lallana is worse though. Should be in his prime but is contributing nothing in terms of goals + assists. We need a goalscoring winger. Yarmolenko would be a good signing.

klose

Pepp1989 wrote: »

My problem with Sakho is that he is injured a lot and takes time on the pitch to get back up to speed. He needs to put a good run of games together.

Was very surprised to see him start last night tbh, he seems a player that needs managing a fair bit.

Knex*

Lallana is very frustrating to watch. He deserves credit for his work ethic, which I presume is why he's in the squad, as its exemplary, but his production on the ball, and even his movement off it, is sadly lacking.

LuckyLloyd

Knex. wrote: »

Lallana is very frustrating to watch. He deserves credit for his work ethic, which I presume is why he's in the squad, as its exemplary, but his production on the ball, and even his movement off it, is sadly lacking.

He's an okay mid level premiership player. This is the peak of his career. When we're done with him he'll be sliding down the league table in terms of his next move.