Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 15/16

NukaCola

8-10 wrote: »

Balague (on Twitter) saying Cheryshev off to Sevilla on loan and Liverpool aren't in for him

Signed for Valencia......that guys a spoofer of the highest order......

YouTookMyName

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

We're merely keeping pace with the rest of the mafia when it comes to ticket prices. It's naive to expect a US based business to be thinking about low income local fans.

If we wanted that sort of club we'd need to have some sort of fan ownership structure which would probably mean financial restrictions on wages and transfer fees. That's the football business environment we live in.

maybe, but they're get £40million this summer from the new tv deal.

That kind of money should be driving tickets down not up.

Iused2likebusts

It's disgusting the money in the PL. Between ticket prices and the wages a bunch of average players get. My wish is that the bubble bursts which I think it will. The TV money surely isn't sustainable with the amount of alternative ways to view football. The sooner the better England loses the 4th CL spot as well. It would be great if Leicester could win the league this year.

LuckyLloyd

Not signing anyone when we have a thin dysfunctional squad and already looking at a 56 game season is criminal tbh. Very disappointed in the club.

Gbear

The ticket prices thing doesn't even make any sense.

Even if it's for 54000 seats or whatever the new capacity is going to be, what does that translate to over the course of a season?

Another couple of million?

The effects of TV deals and sponsorship should be that ticket sales are becoming irrelevant.
The stadium should be about making the team perform better and selling the brand of the club abroad by having a better atmosphere, as well as increasing exposure to a greater number of tourists.

Honestly, I'd rather we were hanging on to £10m a year from the transfer kitty, that we'd probably as good as flush down the jacks anyway.

cj maxx

YouTookMyName wrote: »

maybe, but they're get £40million this summer from the new tv deal.

That kind of money should be driving tickets down not up.

Agree
If attendance is a smaller part of income compared to tv revenue it might be wiser to lower ticket prices and make anfield a cauldren for visiting teams than fleecing the punters who give that atmosphere. Penny wise - pound foolish

5starpool

YouTookMyName wrote: »

maybe, but they're get £40million this summer from the new tv deal.

That kind of money should be driving tickets down not up.

The money they get this summer from the TV deal will be the same (give or take) as the money from the TV deal last summer.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not signing anyone when we have a thin dysfunctional squad and already looking at a 56 game season is criminal tbh. Very disappointed in the club.

It's bizarre tbh.

Considering we are involved in 3 cups and a possible fight for 4th.

billymitchell

RoboKlopp wrote: »

It's bizarre tbh.

Considering we are involved in 3 cups and a possible fight for 4th.

Considering how bad we have been all year, it's amazing we are still in 3 cups and a fight for 4.

Gbear

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not signing anyone when we have a thin dysfunctional squad and already looking at a 56 game season is criminal tbh. Very disappointed in the club.

To what end?

Signing lads in desperation is exactly the wrong thing to do at this point in Klopp's tenure.

He's under no pressure to deliver anything this season and wasting money on stop gaps with no long term value to the squad would be counter-productive bloating of the squad.

We went for a signing that would make sense in Teixeira because he's a long term target of the calibre we need who'll fundamentally change our starting team.
At this stage, with things to play for - relegation, European places, league titles on the line, European cups - it's seldom a time to find top class players and anything other than that is just stuffing our squad with more of the same - at best lads who are grand to have around but not good enough to build your team around.

We're not short of warm bodies.

Harry Palmr

billymitchell wrote: »

Considering how bad we have been all year, it's amazing we are still in 3 cups and a fight for 4.

With Origi, Coutinho and even Sturridge edging back to fitness he might just decide to split up the squad a bit for cups and league but emphasising the cups from here on. Does the league really matter now? What's the highest likely place? 5th? 6th? could easily be 10th, but win a couple of cups and it'll not have been a total wipe-out.

NukaCola

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not signing anyone when we have a thin dysfunctional squad and already looking at a 56 game season is criminal tbh. Very disappointed in the club.

I agree, I would hope its a matter of the right players not being available. Even if thats the case surely we could have looked at another loan signing with perhaps an option to buy.....I'm sure we could have brought in one or two that may not be a perfect fit but could have been useful.....

Lord Trollington

Goal keeping problems : 5 year deal for Mignolet

Injuries in defence and long standing issue with conceding goals from set pieces : Sign a championship defender on loan and play him up front in his first 2 appearances.

No leaders or inforcer in middle. Henderson with heel problems. Lucas quickly losing quickness. No pace. No wingers or a man that can take and and beat an opponent : sign Grujic and loan him back to the club we signed him from.

Scored 30 goals in 23 games. That would not be too bad if we didn't concede 32. Awful scoring return , awful chance conversion ratio. Playing a no.10 who we just signed in the summer up front . Injuries to Sturridge , ings and origi. Charlie Austin at £4m would have a least been something . A stop gap even. We address nothing. Caulker up front in 2 games.

I know we don't want to stock more deadwood or below par players, but my fcukin goodness what an utterly pathetic Transfer window for Liverpool.

BorneTobyWilde

Sigh Klopps
No new faces
Sad

Lord Trollington

Gbear wrote: »

To what end?

Signing lads in desperation is exactly the wrong thing to do at this point in Klopp's tenure.

He's under no pressure to deliver anything this season and wasting money on stop gaps with no long term value to the squad would be counter-productive bloating of the squad.

We went for a signing that would make sense in Teixeira because he's a long term target of the calibre we need who'll fundamentally change our starting team.
At this stage, with things to play for - relegation, European places, league titles on the line, European cups - it's seldom a time to find top class players and anything other than that is just stuffing our squad with more of the same - at best lads who are grand to have around but not good enough to build your team around.

We're not short of warm bodies.

I genuinely do not see what will change between now and summer in terms of potential targets and signing them. We're not after top shelf players here , we cannot pay that kind of money nor can we pay their wages.

Signing 2/3 targets now and 2/3 targets in summer makes more sense than signing 4/5 in summer all at once , in my opinion

5starpool

Probably not true, but interesting if it is.

https://twitter.com/DanKennett/status/694275097008422913

not yet

Just finished watching an episode of 24hours in A&E and I'm 99% sure I've seen Sturridge limp in...

TitianGerm

not yet wrote: »

Just finished watching an episode of 24hours in A&E and I'm 99% sure I've seen Sturridge limp in...

You sure he wasn't in a body bag?

Gbear

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I genuinely do not see what will change between now and summer in terms of potential targets and signing them. We're not after top shelf players here , we cannot pay that kind of money nor can we pay their wages.

Signing 2/3 targets now and 2/3 targets in summer makes more sense than signing 4/5 in summer all at once , in my opinion

Well, for the likes of Teixeira, if Shakhtar don't want to sell until the summer than that is that.

Further to that, Klopp has been our manager for about a quarter of a season so far.

In that time we've had a ludicrous number of games so he probably has scarcely even had a chance to work with the players who've been fit, never mind the ones on loan, Ings, Gomez and all that.

In short, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have a firm grasp on what exactly the squad needs yet, or if we do, if we've had time to identify the right targets.

Further to that, I don't think you get top players in January very often.
That doesn't mean you don't get good players, but the Countinhos of this world need more groundwork put in on the scouting front than Suarez' or Teixeiras, who're obviously tearing their leagues apart.

Most of the links that seem credible have been the stop-gappy sort - Matip and the likes on free transfers, or successful ones like Grujic and Caulker. Small fry.

Teixeira is the only serious bid we've heard anything about.

If there was seriously something on the line, I'd be a fan of throwing money at someone.
If we'd had serious time to prepare beforehand and I was confident that Klopp knew his squad and what we needed I'd be wondering why it had gotten to this stage and we hadn't pulled the finger out.
Even then, I'd be surprised if we signed anyone over £25m, which is what the kind of lads we need.

As things stand, we're in no rush. We don't need any random ****er who'll be surplus to requirements by the time the summer rolls around anyway just to finish 6th instead of 7th.

~Rebel~

Harry Palmr wrote: »

With Origi, Coutinho and even Sturridge edging back to fitness he might just decide to split up the squad a bit for cups and league but emphasising the cups from here on. Does the league really matter now? What's the highest likely place? 5th? 6th? could easily be 10th, but win a couple of cups and it'll not have been a total wipe-out.

I know i'm being overly optimistic here - but with any sort of a run, 4th still isn't off the table imo. Now, we don't look like putting together that run - but I still think it's worth at least trying to.

Look at the league form - only 2 clubs have managed to win more than 3 in their last 6 league games - and those 2 only managed to win 4. Everyone is dropping points all over the place. Put together a run of 5 or 6 wins on the bounce at any stage over the last 15 matches, and we'd be right there. It's also worth remembering that after Leicester, all our games against the top teams are at home.

It's just a mad year with no consistency anywhere.

brevity

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not signing anyone when we have a thin dysfunctional squad and already looking at a 56 game season is criminal tbh. Very disappointed in the club.

It's amazing how this club continues to make the same mistakes over and over again.

BullBlackNova

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I know i'm being overly optimistic here - but with any sort of a run, 4th still isn't off the table imo. Now, we don't look like putting together that run - but I still think it's worth at least trying to.

Look at the league form - only 2 clubs have managed to win more than 3 in their last 6 league games - and those 2 only managed to win 4. Everyone is dropping points all over the place. Put together a run of 5 or 6 wins on the bounce at any stage over the last 15 matches, and we'd be right there. It's also worth remembering that after Leicester, all our games against the top teams are at home.

It's just a mad year with no consistency anywhere.

4th place is a really difficult ask for us at this stage - and I'm not saying it for the sake of being pessimistic. We're 8 points off Spurs, who look well placed to stay in the top 4 as it stands.

Add to the fact that we need to make up that points difference ourselves, we also need to hope that none of the other sides ahead of us do. United may be in dire form but they've scraped wins here and there to keep ahead, while West Ham look capable of making up the ground too.

Also, it doesn't really matter where our games against the top sides are - those aren't the games we've f*cked everything up in. It is Watford, Palace, West Brom, Newcastle, etc that we need to start getting points in. We could well get 10 points from games against Leicester, City, Spurs and Chelsea between now and May. It'll mean f*ck all if its the only 10 points we get!!!

There's no doubt that there are points for the taking from absolutely everyone this season, but we aren't suddenly about to find some consistency and shoot up the league just because. It would be a remarkable turnaround in fortunes for this team.

rob316

3 cups and a chance for top 4 still, United faltering. The team was screaming out for a goalscorer. Since rafa we finally have a top class manager, probably the highest profile manager in my lifetime as a liverpool supporter and not a single player was brought in...its baffling.

I have said it for a while fsg lack the vision and ambition to make this club great again. The wage bill has been slashed season after season, our best players sold and a pathetic net spend.

I didn't want or expect a £38m signing but I expected a first xi attacking player.

It's another missed opportunity.

Best case scenario Klopp knows who he wants and they aren't available (won't be sold, too expensive etc etc) so he's not bothering bringing in other players for the sake of it.

Also he might reckon he has a good chance of getting more out of the current squad with Coutinho to come back in along with Origi.... Firmino finding his feet etc.

Worst case scenario isn't that bad really, ie the club, transfer committee and Klopp aren't agreeing on who to bring in or it's too early for them to have suitables identified.

No major justification in feeling aggrieved with FSG at the moment imo, stadium plans underway, much sought after manager in charge..... lots to be positive about.

BorneTobyWilde

brevity wrote: »

It's amazing how this club continues to make the same mistakes over and over again.

It's amazing how we manage to compete with full strength teams while we have endless injuries and no striker firing. That is amazing.
Still 3 places off 4th. We are amazing.
Its why I feel we can compete for top 3 with a fit squad and a striker, be it Sturridge or a replacement who suits who can fire 30 goals a season.

MD1990

Stoke getting Imbula who is an excellent DM certaintly better than any one we have. Stoke & West Ham on paper are pretty equal with us tbh.

BorneTobyWilde

I don't rate Corgi
I miss Suarez . I would swim through an ocean of ****e just so I could hear him fart through a walkie talkie.

5starpool

If we lose more ground on the top 4 in the next couple of games I'll be even more annoyed if we play a second string again for the cup replay.

Gbear

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I know i'm being overly optimistic here - but with any sort of a run, 4th still isn't off the table imo. Now, we don't look like putting together that run - but I still think it's worth at least trying to.

Look at the league form - only 2 clubs have managed to win more than 3 in their last 6 league games - and those 2 only managed to win 4. Everyone is dropping points all over the place. Put together a run of 5 or 6 wins on the bounce at any stage over the last 15 matches, and we'd be right there. It's also worth remembering that after Leicester, all our games against the top teams are at home.

It's just a mad year with no consistency anywhere.

There's plenty of consistency ahead of us from 4th to 1st.

We're missing a top level candidate to get in the mid 80's but Arsenal and Spurs are pretty much where you'd expect.

We don't need a run. We don't need championship-winning form.
We need particularly dominant championship-winning form.

We're talking 2.4ppg when Leicester are only on 2.04 and we're currently at 1.48.

Absolutely ****ing miles from that and there's nothing in the squad to suggest we're "sleeping giants" just inches away from blasting teams away.

We are where we are on merit.

Even if we had gotten Teixeira and he was every bit as good as we hoped and all of our players were fit for the rest of the season it would still have been a herculean task to get top 4 from where we are.

rob316

MD1990 wrote: »

Stoke getting Imbula who is an excellent DM certaintly better than any one we have. Stoke & West Ham on paper are pretty equal with us tbh.

Likes of Liverpool can't get away without not constantly adding to their squad anymore. The gap is narrowing fast, Leicester are top of the league in February for god sake.

MD1990

interesting article http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopps-message-liverpool-fc-fans-10821611
Klopp doesn't seem in favour of paying huge money for players.

MD1990

interesting article http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopps-message-liverpool-fc-fans-10821611
Klopp doesn't seem in favour of paying huge money for players.

Knex*

With the current trend in the English market, I'm not sure we can afford to not spend big money on players, regardless of whether Klopp is at the helm or not.

With all due respect, we're dealing with a total different situation to Germany here. The level of money for the top 20 PL teams is unprecedented.

~Rebel~

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Also, it doesn't really matter where our games against the top sides are - those aren't the games we've f*cked everything up in. It is Watford, Palace, West Brom, Newcastle, etc that we need to start getting points in. We could well get 10 points from games against Leicester, City, Spurs and Chelsea between now and May. It'll mean f*ck all if its the only 10 points we get!!!

There's no doubt that there are points for the taking from absolutely everyone this season, but we aren't suddenly about to find some consistency and shoot up the league just because. It would be a remarkable turnaround in fortunes for this team.

Well my point there was that we have opportunities to quickly cut into those leads - for example, we beat Spurs at Anfield and suddenly that 8 points is only 5. 5 points is not quite so daunting to make up over the other 14 games - especially when you look at that run in. Our last 6 games after the Spurs game are eminently winnable. Spurs in the same period face Chelsea and ManU.

Totally agree that it's still a very big ask, I'm more going against the idea that the league is gone and we should throw in the towel. There's twists and turns to come in this season yet, and I think we should be doing our best to take advantage of them, unlike last year when the door was open and we just imploded.

rob316

Knex. wrote: »

With the current trend in the English market, I'm not sure we can afford to not spend big money on players, regardless of whether Klopp is at the helm or not.

With all due respect, we're dealing with a total different situation to Germany here. The level of money for the top 20 PL teams is unprecedented.

Spot on. I don't think klopp is doing the pr offensive either as he doesn't need to like Rodgers who was desperate to hang onto his job.
I would have thought by now klopp had recognised level of competition in this league.
He said it himself a £20m transfer in Germany would be news, here you have clubs like newcastle throwing £21m at average players like berahino.

I love Klopps honesty and the confidence he has in his own coaching ability, but he has to spend big on quality.

Harry Palmr

rob316 wrote: »

Spot on. I don't think klopp is doing the pr offensive either as he doesn't need to like Rodgers who was desperate to hang onto his job.
I would have thought by now klopp had recognised level of competition in this league.
He said it himself a £20m transfer in Germany would be news, here you have clubs like newcastle throwing £21m at average players like berahino.

I love Klopps honesty and the confidence he has in his own coaching ability, but he has to spend big on quality.

Does he though, we all like the **** you of a big fee transfer but how good have Liverpools two most expensive signings been? I'd prefer to trust the Klopp/Buvac/Krawietz judgement on players than just see cheques written for well known players.

Ferris_Bueller

Disappointing we didn't get anyone else in before the end of the window but it might have been the smart thing to do overall. 4th isn't out of sight yet but I think we would be outsiders at this stage, so no point in rushing to buy someone when the money would probably be better spent in the summer. I think all in here are in agreement Liverpool need quality rather than more players with potential, so there was no point in forking out £20m for a player who is just as good as what we have already. There are a lot of players coming back from injury and a few young players have been getting a look in lately too so it mightn't be that stupid for Klopp to see what he's got over the next few months and then really strengthen in the summer.

Not that I know much about Texeira, but being linked to him was exciting, he seems regarded as a player who could go straight into the first eleven and go on to be a big player. We will possibly go back for him in the summer but I'd have a fear that other clubs will go in for him and he would choose them over us. With Klopp in charge now though it might give us a bit more pull in the transfer market.

Ferris_Bueller

Disappointing we didn't get anyone else in before the end of the window but it might have been the smart thing to do overall. 4th isn't out of sight yet but I think we would be outsiders at this stage, so no point in rushing to buy someone when the money would probably be better spent in the summer. I think all in here are in agreement Liverpool need quality rather than more players with potential, so there was no point in forking out £20m for a player who is just as good as what we have already. There are a lot of players coming back from injury and a few young players have been getting a look in lately too so it mightn't be that stupid for Klopp to see what he's got over the next few months and then really strengthen in the summer.

Not that I know much about Texeira, but being linked to him was exciting, he seems regarded as a player who could go straight into the first eleven and go on to be a big player. We will possibly go back for him in the summer but I'd have a fear that other clubs will go in for him and he would choose them over us. With Klopp in charge now though it might give us a bit more pull in the transfer market.

garra

brevity wrote: »

It's amazing how this club continues to make the same mistakes over and over again.

Most of the mistakes have been the signing of players who don't work out, or over-paying for middling players, this is what we have done "over and over again".

54and56

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Just saw that. If that's true then FSG are proving themselves to be absolute shits of the highest order.

Its a bit of a shame alright but once clubs became full on businesses owned by investors rather than community/fan owned it's not surprising that they will adopt a pricing strategy which maximises revenue which in turn provides more cash for player transfers and wages. If we want to compete at the top the club needs to perform at its best both on and off the pitch. Isn't that what all fans want?

No doubt it will make games too expensive for some fans who go to a lot of games and that is a real shame as it is the regulars who create the atmosphere. No amount of once off visitors willing to pay a high ticket price (as it is a small part of the overall cost to travel to and stay in Liverpool) will ever make up for that but atmosphere doesn't appear on a profit and loss account!!!

rob316

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Does he though, we all like the **** you of a big fee transfer but how good have Liverpools two most expensive signings been? I'd prefer to trust the Klopp/Buvac/Krawietz judgement on players than just see cheques written for well known players.

Hopefully but that's a risk in itself.

Your £10m players now cost £20m. If your a premier league club the selling club will jack up the price. Soon £40m for a player won't be seen as much. Just the reality transfer fees are soaring.
The bank needs to be broken the odd time for a fancy south american or Latin player I'm afraid.

Knex*

Stoke can now throw 18m out for a player, and nobody bats an eye.

35-40m is the new "20m pound player" that we used to speak of in Rafa's tenure.

That's the level the PL is at.

Harry Palmr

rob316 wrote: »

Hopefully but that's a risk in itself.

Your £10m players now cost £20m. If your a premier league club the selling club will jack up the price. Soon £40m for a player won't be seen as much. Just the reality transfer fees are soaring.
The bank needs to be broken the odd time for a fancy south american or Latin player I'm afraid.

Right now there is a player in some league you never look at a team you may only be vaguely aware of who will become a star, they are the players that Klopp's team are more likely to go after. I'll wager that the summer is going to be a disappointment for transfer "glory hunters".

Knex*

And fair enough if you say that he deemed the likes of Tex not worth the money, but where's his alternative?

We're playing an outrageous amount of games, and are still in all the cups, while trying to finish as high as we can in the league. We needed to bolster the squad.

We're a step away from another "galvanised" press conference.

garra

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Right now there is a player in some league you never look at a team you may only be vaguely aware of who will become a star, they are the players that Klopp's team are more likely to go after. I'll wager that the summer is going to be a disappointment for transfer "glory hunters".

I hope so too. Texeira was not a player being championed before we made the initial offer, I'm looking forward to seeing what surprises Klopp has in store for us, come the summer.

mormank

Gbear wrote: »

To what end?

Signing lads in desperation is exactly the wrong thing to do at this point in Klopp's tenure.

He's under no pressure to deliver anything this season and wasting money on stop gaps with no long term value to the squad would be counter-productive bloating of the squad.

We went for a signing that would make sense in Teixeira because he's a long term target of the calibre we need who'll fundamentally change our starting team.
At this stage, with things to play for - relegation, European places, league titles on the line, European cups - it's seldom a time to find top class players and anything other than that is just stuffing our squad with more of the same - at best lads who are grand to have around but not good enough to build your team around.

We're not short of warm bodies.

No, at best you can get players to build your whole team around in January actually. It is a commonly believed myth that there is simply no value to be had in the January transfer window so I don't blame you for buying into it but it's wrong. We paid 32mill for Benteke in the summer and paid 12.5mill for Sturridge in Jan. We paid around 20mill for Markovic in the summer and paid 8.5mill for Coutinho in January. We paid the same price during a summer transfer window for Lovren as we paid in a January transfer window for Suarez. Need I go on? money is wasted in every transfer window and value is available in every transfer window.

Knex*

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Right now there is a player in some league you never look at a team you may only be vaguely aware of who will become a star, they are the players that Klopp's team are more likely to go after. I'll wager that the summer is going to be a disappointment for transfer "glory hunters".

I fear that in the current PL era, that is a small time mentality that will considerably shorten our odds for establishing ourselves as a top team in England, let alone Europe.

It would also further enhance the any concerns that we are on the path to becoming a selling club, and would, I believe, certainly lead to the likes of Coutinho packing his bags fairly sharpish.

I'd like to think that we will still look to the likes of Firmino, and even Benteke. Not every transfer will work, but without these type of signings, we go nowhere.

For sure, supplement your attack with other, cheaper signings, such as Ings. But like Gbear, myself, and a few others said the other day, we need to put money towards the best players available that can put the ball in the net. Get your value elsewhere, but prioritise that.

shamrock55

Money has this game ruined, the pl is a farce and is only going to get worse, i myself am becoming more distanced from football as the seasons go on and its mainly down to how money is ruining the game from ticket prices, transfers, agents fees and wages, keep this going and in a few years i for one will no longer give a flying **** about pl football unfortunatly:(

mormank

Knex. wrote: »

I fear that in the current PL era, that is a small time mentality that will considerably shorten our odds for establishing ourselves as a top team in England, let alone Europe.

It would also further enhance the any concerns that we are on the path to becoming a selling club, and would, I believe, certainly lead to the likes of Coutinho packing his bags fairly sharpish.

I'd like to think that we will still look to the likes of Firmino, and even Benteke. Not every transfer will work, but without these type of signings, we go nowhere.

For sure, supplement your attack with other, cheaper signings, such as Ings. But like Gbear, myself, and a few others said the other day, we need to put money towards the best players available that can put the ball in the net. Get your value elsewhere, but prioritise that.

We have been a selling club for many years now already, I long for the days we were merely on the road to becoming one. We exist in a catch 22 situation where we want our players to be excellent but once they become excellent they go and play for another club. Even Gerrard almost left, had he been born ten years later he would certainly not be spending his entire career with us imo. Might sound cynical but in my experience optimists often mistake realism for pessimism and cynicism

Chelsea, Man City & Man Utd (earned largely) have the funds and spending power, so too Arsenal but they've got there in planned marathon training style.

With West Ham getting a tasty new stadium for little expenditure and the TV money they'll be getting better year on year potentially. Spurs have finished above us recently except in the season we came 2nd.

The race for top 4 will be 6/8 teams at least going forward, or the race for 3rd/4th will be 4/6 teams ish.

As Chelsea have shown this year and Utd 2 years ago the fall from greatness can be very very sharp, of course (most) Liverpool fans didn't need reminding, some call that small time thinking, it's reality.

YNWL, The Kop etc don't put the ball in the net, the points on the league table or the players in the squad.

One can be optimistic in spirit while remaining logical in outlook while enjoying the ups in between the downs