Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 15/16

citytillidie

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Jesus are we back to writing Origi off? He was the next big thing before he got injured. To criticise a player who's that young and in his first game back from an injury, during a first season with the club in which he hasn't played that much... the guy looks a talent as far as i'm concerned. There was some flashes of nice play from him tonight but he also lost the ball a few times and had a really poor effort on goal. Thats a lack of sharpness imo.

Its modern football to over analyze everything but nobody played poorly out there today. We should have won the game, we didnt because we didn't take our chances. Benteke should and on form would have scored a few. He's not a rubbish striker he just has no confidence. Its naive to think the speculation thats constantly surrounding him and how he fits into the team would have no effect on him. In the long run I think we'll sell him for 25odd million in the summer but those saying he wasn't bothered... did you see the look on his face when he missed.. he looked completely gutted. Thats not the face of someone who doesn't care.

I said it in the match thread but i think he sometimes gets stick because he's not Luis. Well nobody but Luis is Luis. Nobody else is as good as he is and has the workrate. We're going to have to accept that we won't have another one of him.

And finally I hate Daniel Sturridge... he's so good. So annoyingly magnificently good at football. I hate him.

Think he is talking about Benteke and Mignolet

Harry Palmr

Rest of the season needs to be based around

Ward/Mig
Flanno/Clyne
Ilori/Sakho/Lovren
Smith/Moreno
Branngan/Stewart/Can/Lucas
Hendo/Allen
Coutinho/Teixeira/Lallana/Ojo
Sturridge/Origi/Firmino

murpho999

NukaCola wrote: »

What does Klopp do with Benteke at this point?

Firmino offers a lot more at the moment, Origi/Sturridge coming back hopefully for a long period of time. Has he a future here?......if not we lose a lot on him, if he does then how do we get the best from him?

Personally, I'd have Firmino ahead of him if Sturridge isn't fit and I'm not sure if he'll ever be an asset if that turns out to be the case.

He needs to manage it as he sees best. It looks like Klopp doesn't really rate him but maybe he should give him a few games with Sturridge and see if a partnership forms

I think a couple of goals could make the difference for him

TitianGerm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Sturridge
Orgi
Henderson
Coutinho
Ibe
Firmino
Can
Teixiera
Benteke
Ings
Stewart
Lallana

That's a nice list.








What are we listing though?

J Mysterio

One of the first losses in memory were I dont feel too upset afterwards. Lots of reasons really.

1. The kids did really well.

I would be happy for Illori to start Premier League based on tonight. Coutinho should be actively instructed to make Teixera his understudy - he can learn from him and replace him in games as a sub or when he is out. Smith continuing to impress - a player we almlost let walk. Stewart and Chiravella looking decent.

2. Sturridge, Coutinho, Origi and Flanno back. Origi did not play well abd Flanno still finding form but anyway, very positive.

3. Benteke, though I dont like his style for a Liverpool team was really involved. Still does not make the right moves but can be coached in that. Tried hard. Potential for two up front with him/ Sturridge with Coutinho and Firminho buildig play, arriving late.

Coutinho was played more in midfield today and I think thats where Klopp sees him going forward given the options currently available up front - more of a creator, less of a goalscorer.

4. We're still in a cup final. For a transition year, and for Klopp's first year, to win something would be excellent.

5. Still in the Europa League and an (outside) opportunity to win it and qualify for the champions league.

6. Klopp has had a real opportunity to assess the squad at large - who he wants to keep, who he wants to get rid off and what we need in the summer to move forward.

So... Positive despite the result.

Pyjamarama

citytillidie wrote: »

Think he is talking about Benteke and Mignolet

Oh... well then yeah to a degree. Mignolet is the worst. I think Benteke has shown himself a very good player but a) he doesn't seem to fit in with the players we have and b) his confidence is completely shot.

J Mysterio

Vicxas wrote: »

Im more annoyed that we didn't use ward. Whats the point in recalling him and then not use him at all. Mind boggling

Klopp is seeing him in training. His recall may have more to do with a lack of faith in Bogdan then a massive belief in him personally.

Apparently he has done well in Aberdeen butbthat is Aberdeen in the SPL. He has almost no experience outside of that.

Incidentally, is he Irish? Presumably an Irish grandmother? Randolph was excellent tonight though and excudes calm assurance, I likenhim for Ireland.

billymitchell

I don't check into the football forum for a few days, read our match thread and Klopp is suddenly under pressure! Maybe we should get rid of him now while we still have some chance of some silverware.... :rolleyes:

J Mysterio

billymitchell wrote: »

I don't check into the football forum for a few days, read our match thread and Klopp is suddenly under pressure! Maybe we should get rid of him now while we still have some chance of some silverware.... :rolleyes:

He is in his hole

BorneTobyWilde

emmetkenny wrote: »

That's a nice list.








What are we listing though?

Potential I guess.
We have the individuals but no team.
You could argue that its impossible to play our best 11 players
In fact it is.

murpho999

J Mysterio wrote: »

He is in his hole

Haven't you heard. He's under pressure now to win the league cup.

Makes me laugh , Louis van Gaal has spent millions, and won nothing in 2 seasons apart from a nice clipboard.

Agent Coulson

I think we should just leave Benteke in Birmingham when the game is over on Sunday.

Canadel

billymitchell wrote: »

I don't check into the football forum for a few days, read our match thread and Klopp is suddenly under pressure! Maybe we should get rid of him now while we still have some chance of some silverware.... :rolleyes:

The only pressure Klopp is under is from Utd fans desperate to divert attention away from Van Gaal now that he is pretty much guaranteed to last the season. If they can't pressure Van Gaal into getting the sack, they may as well focus their efforts on Klopp.

J Mysterio

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I think we should just leave Benteke in Birmingham when the game is over on Sunday.

lol

BorneTobyWilde

Can see why Sturridge get injured, all that twisting and turning of limps in tight areas. The spins back and fourth, the sharp turns of direction. Its incredible movement and agility, so easily tweak something though.

Sir Gallagher

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Can see why Sturridge get injured, all that twisting and turning of limps in tight areas. The spins back and fourth, the sharp turns of direction. Its incredible movement and agility, so easily tweak something though.

What? He's a proffesional athlete, that kind of stuff is part of the job.

~Rebel~

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

What? He's a proffesional athlete, that kind of stuff is part of the job.

Of course its part of the job, but its a fair point that players who do more maneuvering at high speed have a greater risk of injury, thats just common sense. I think the causes of his injuries run far deeper than just that myself, but it certainly plays a part. He has a very dynamic playing style that puts a lot of pressure on muscles and tendons.

Kerrigooney

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Jesus are we back to writing Origi off? He was the next big thing before he got injured. To criticise a player who's that young and in his first game back from an injury, during a first season with the club in which he hasn't played that much... the guy looks a talent as far as i'm concerned. There was some flashes of nice play from him tonight but he also lost the ball a few times and had a really poor effort on goal. Thats a lack of sharpness imo.

Yeah sorry,as explained I was talking about Mig and Ben. I like Origi and forgot he is Belgian.

OwaynOTT

I'd save the turd is raging to see him back and looking sharp. Coulson's thank count will drop for 4.5 games now as well.

JB81

Jordan Ibe is a bad footballer

Knex*

Thought Benteke's general play was decent enough last night, especially when Sturridge was around him. He was unlucky with both finishes, but he really needs to be putting the second one away, at least.

MonkeyTennis

There are some big positives from last night. We now see some of the young guns can play at a high level it increases our options.

Delighted to see Couts and Sturridge back.

MonkeyTennis

There are some big positives from last night. We now see some of the young guns can play at a high level it increases our options.

Delighted to see Couts and Sturridge back.

kfallon

murpho999 wrote: »

Makes me laugh , Louis van Gaal has spent millions, and won nothing in 2 seasons apart from a nice clipboard.

Yeah but that speech when he was pissed as a newt last May, Utd fans were creaming themselves about it! And it was the biggest load of bollox I ever heard :pac:

Swarlez

NukaCola wrote: »

He doesn't have faith in himself either.

People can talk until they are blue in the face about him suiting us etc etc......he's missing chances that are falling to him which has little to do with our style, easy chances, gifts almost and he somehow makes it harder than it should be every time.....Thats the easy part, the hard part is linking up in a new setup with a new manager etc etc and he's miles behind where he needs to be.

Some people said he had a good game, looking at him tonight, he often took the easy option pass back to Midfield, never busted himself getting forward, regularly found himself behind the play, took up awkward positions making it easy to defend against him, was never an option with a cross into the box, did not link up with Ibe or Coutinho, didn't try to beat his man when needed, the guy was poor. Coasted all game, done a few basic things decent but overall was poor.

A complete waste of money. 32m, absolutely crazy.

I though he played very well last night (bar the finishing). He was winning the ball, bringing other players into play throughout the game. He showed quick feet and control, setting up Coutinho being an example. He got on the end of two corners well, which nobody in our team has seemed capable of for quite a while. He also was a big help with with defending corners.

Since those two goals at Christmas he has looked lost and wasnt showing any glimpses that he could get himself playing in this team. Last night he showed what he could be capable of playing with other strikers/forwards around him. He has enough playing history to suggest he can finish, he is just bereft of confidence. Saying that I've never been completely sold on him, but to call him a complete waste of money is a bit much.

Riesen_Meal

http://touch.adverts.ie/boxing/free-to-anyone/9818921

Cmon lads own up!

rob316

Swarlez wrote: »

I though he played very well last night (bar the finishing). He was winning the ball, bringing other players into play throughout the game. He showed quick feet and control, setting up Coutinho being an example. He got on the end of two corners well, which nobody in our team has seemed capable of for quite a while. He also was a big help with with defending corners.

Since those two goals at Christmas he has looked lost and wasnt showing any glimpses that he could get himself playing in this team. Last night he showed what he could be capable of playing with other strikers/forwards around him. He has enough playing history to suggest he can finish, he is just bereft of confidence. Saying that I've never been completely sold on him, but to call him a complete waste of money is a bit much.

If he isn't putting the ball in the net or racking up assists he is a waste of space on pitch simple as. He is a £32m striker, expectations should be very high.

He wont be seen too many games now anyway with Origi and Sturridge back.

Nerdlingr

Some positives from last night. The young team held their own (again) against west ham near first choice 11. I thought Lucas did very well again last night at centre back. Have we found his best position? Apart from a few misjudged headers and one or two soft fouls (not counting the one at the end, that was very very harsh imo) I thought he had a fine game. He's filled in there before and done very well. All the young lads acquitted themselves really well too i thought....apart from Ibe. What is going on with him these days??!! keeping on making bad choices and has lost the will to track back it seems. Unfortunate way to lose it but I'm not too disheartened like I would be with other defeats. Still have faith in Benteke...p*ssed off he missed the one on one but I thought himself , sturridge and origi (who did very well when he came on) linked up quite well. Add a returning coutinho and a in form firminho into the mix and things might not be as bad as they may seem.

MD1990

Stewart was superb

deserves some PL minutes.

Swarlez

rob316 wrote: »

If he isn't putting the ball in the net or racking up assists he is a waste of space on pitch simple as. He is a £32m striker, expectations should be very high.

He wont be seen too many games now anyway with Origi and Sturridge back.

I would have hoped that this is when we would see him played, playing with other actual forwards (not one paced midfielders) and pace around him.

I agree that at the end of the day needs to put the ball in the back of the net to be successful, but i though last night was at least a step in the right direction to the player we had though we had signed. He did everything right last night bar score, and if he were to start gaining some confidence, maybe he puts two of those chances away last night.

Klopp may well want rid in the summer, and there would be plenty of reasons to do so, but I'm looking forward to see if a mixture of Benteke, sturridge, coutinho, origi and lallana on the pitch and seeing if we can get more out of each of them.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Love this https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/status/697151976660807681

Knowing us, we'd throw beachballs onto the pitch...

MD1990 wrote: »

Stewart was superb

deserves some PL minutes.

+1

He looked very assured last night and had an excellent game bar 1 or 2 poor passes. I thought his leg was broken and he was limping heavily after that bad challenge but he was even better after that.

I would like to see him on in the league as well.

NukaCola

Swarlez wrote: »

I though he played very well last night (bar the finishing).

I just dont agree.....I may be coming across as bashing him at this stage, he done ok, he tried and did a few ok things but thats the basics.......looks completely limited and a shadow of his Villa self.

I'd say WH would love to play against him every week....static most of the time, taking up positions that make it hard to score, fell behind the FB and attack regularly and as a result was not in the box for his cross, cant run at the defence, cant beat a man, not great at linking up (done it once of twice but not enough). The chances he had were as clear cut and his attempts were woeful.

He done the basics, for a 32m pound striker that has shown in the past that he can be hard to handle thats just not good enough. The same problems remain, I am being harsh on him, and while last night was an improvement, it still shows huge gaps in his attacking form.......I hope we get more out of him but theres no way that can be classed as a very good performance. Hopefully he can build on it, I do have sympathy for him, he is trying but he is a disappointment to me at least.

NukaCola

rob316 wrote: »

If he isn't putting the ball in the net or racking up assists he is a waste of space on pitch simple as. He is a £32m striker, expectations should be very high.

He wont be seen too many games now anyway with Origi and Sturridge back.

Even with them back I'd have Firmino ahead of him. He needs to take his chances and he's not doing that unfortunately.

Blackhorse Slim

Genuinely excited about the prospect of Coutinho, Firmino and Sturridge playing together against Villa - could be an absolute hiding. I think only maybe City have a more exciting front 3 when everyone is fit.

Priority for Klopp in the summer must be sorting out the defence and replacing Mig. That in itself would make a huge difference to results.

kfallon

Blackhorse Slim wrote: »

Genuinely excited about the prospect of Coutinho, Firmino and Sturridge playing together against Villa

I think if we could keep those 3 fit we might see an end to the season similar to the last few months of Rodgers first season in charge, playing good attacking football and picking up, mostly, positive results.

At least it would send us into the summer in decent spirits.

It's a big 'if' tho with keeping all 3 fit!

rob316

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Knowing us, we'd throw beachballs onto the pitch...


+1

He looked very assured last night and had an excellent game bar 1 or 2 poor passes. I thought his leg was broken and he was limping heavily after that bad challenge but he was even better after that.

I would like to see him on in the league as well.

So impressed, he just does the simple things well. Simple passes, tackling, breaking up play nothing fancy, a better option than Lucas or Can in midfield currently.

citytillidie

This summer maybe bad for preparations

Copa America - June 3rd - June 23th
Euros - June 10th - July 10th
Olympics - August 4th - August 20th

If Liverpool win the League Cup season would start on 28th July

Iused2likebusts

The biggest reason we constantly concede from set pieces and fail to score from ours is the severe lack of height in the squad.

Swarlez

NukaCola wrote: »

Even with them back I'd have Firmino ahead of him. He needs to take his chances and he's not doing that unfortunately.

I agree, Firmino is definitely ahead of him, has shown much more on a consistent basis now.

I just think that Benteke showed a glimpse of what he could give us, but its up to him to win his place in the team and start delivering on a regular basis.

monkey9

Great to see Sturridge back, but I can't help thinking he'll miss the Villa game due to being struck down with the Zika virus.

Harry Palmr

Vicxas wrote: »

Im more annoyed that we didn't use ward. Whats the point in recalling him and then not use him at all. Mind boggling

According to James Pearce Klopp decided against Ward as the back line was so makeshift in nature.

rob316

Stream wasn't the best last night so just watched the highlights there. How did we not win that and comfortably?

Benteke had so many chances, Coutinho hit the post, it was actually an excellent performance, West Ham were so lucky even with the stone wall penalty shout. First time in ages I actually thought we could of hammered them by 4 or 5. That free kick at the end was never a foul, Valenica spent the night hitting the floor.

I'm going to be super critical of Klopp here but the man in form Firmino should of atleast been on the bench. We had enough out there to win that last night but Firmino would have had the sharpness and confidence to finish some of those chances. Had an excellent chance to get to the quarter final just feel like we threw it away.

Lets try Lucas at CB at the weekend again, he was outstanding and against Stoke in the 1st Leg. Stewart has to be a serious option now instead of Lucas or Can in midfield, I don't know what Smith has to do to get a starting spot ahead of Moreno - his attacking play is so productive.

When we get Markovic back in the summer, Ibe needs to go out on loan to a PL side. Lets get him playing week in week out and see if he is good enough then. He has regressed alarmingly for me.

Benteke will bear the brunt of our frustration and I'm generally harsh on him but he got into the right spots last night just lacking in confidence to finish. We need him scoring if we have any hope of fetching a good price for him.

Attacking wise we are totally different proposition now with Sturridge, Coutinho and Firmino so I'm really excited to see that prosper.

Disappointed but optimistic.

BullBlackNova

Missed last night's game so can't comment there.

But going to reiterate something I said a few weeks ago now that we have more options - I really want to see 2 up front. I really believe than any combination of Firmino, Benteke, Origi and Sturridge would have some luck. We should be going to try and swarm teams at this stage - the defence is so unreliable, we can basically presume that we WILL concede in every game.

Curious to see how everyone would like us to line up with a (practically) fully fit squad at the minute? It happens so rarely, I almost always pick teams in my head factoring out half a dozen players.

But I'd go with...

Mignolet (Ugh)
Clyne -- Lovren -- Sakho -- Flanagan
Henderson -- Can -- Milner
Coutinho
Firmino -- Sturridge

We lack width in almost any set up that we go with because of a lack of wingers, so if we try to narrow the play ourselves and make it difficult to play against us. I'd be happy enough to put Lucas in as a CB instead of Sakho based on their current form too.

Diamond midfield with Can at its base, Milner and Henderson have the energy to turn defence to attack pretty quickly, win the ball in the middle and get forward. It is a system we saw work for Henderson, Coutinho, Flanagan and Sturridge in the past too - might be worth a shot?

Unless I'm missing something!!

Thing is, though, even if (when?) Sturridge is injured again, Origi and/or Benteke can take his role and we would still pose more of a goal threat than we currently do.

kingshankly

Like a lot of us I wouldn't have minded off loading sturidge
But then you see him come on last night and he's head and shoulders above every one on the park
The lad is different class

Rega

kingshankly wrote: »

Like a lot of us I wouldn't have minded off loading sturidge
But then you see him come on last night and he's head and shoulders above every one on the park
The lad is different class

When he's fit, which is hardly ever

Harry Palmr

Joao Carlos Teixeira last night - watch his link up with Smith and Coutinho. I'm always banging on about this fella, he needs to be given as much time as possible for the rest the season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGqnKPJcuqA

Kevin Stewart - a very solid game. Nothing fancy but did the necessary and with Chivirella kept the West Ham middle pretty quiet, indeed it was noticeable how they went longer as the game went on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7phjiYalw4

murpho999

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Of course its part of the job, but its a fair point that players who do more maneuvering at high speed have a greater risk of injury, thats just common sense. I think the causes of his injuries run far deeper than just that myself, but it certainly plays a part. He has a very dynamic playing style that puts a lot of pressure on muscles and tendons.

So how come Ronaldo, Suarez and Messi don't get injured so much? (Not suggesting he's at that level)

kingshankly

kingshankly wrote: »

Like a lot of us I wouldn't have minded off loading sturidge
But then you see him come on last night and he's head and shoulders above every one on the park
The lad is different class

His endeavours 2 seasons ago covered his transfer fee imo, big picture his wages are worth paying for what he can potentially contribute.

One repeat of that or 2 half season over the rest of his contract and and his contract wages are largely covered IMO.

Makes little sense to offload.

cj maxx

Only listened to the game so only going by the bbc5 commentaters but pluses seem to be
Smith, tex, sturridge
And from an ireland aspect randolph
Negatives in benteke again . Really dissapointed with him . I liked him at villa but he really is only the big man in the box to whack or nod the ball .
How many one on ones has he fluffed ?

Seamu$

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Mignolet (Ugh)
Clyne -- Lovren -- Sakho -- Flanagan
Henderson -- Can -- Milner
Coutinho
Firmino -- Sturridge

Agree with the above - that represents our best team at the moment I think. Lucas for Can and Smith for Flanno wouldn't weaken it much, Allen covering for Hendo or Milner also.