Driving behind a Funeral etiquette

TheChizler

farmchoice wrote: »

the original poster asked is their any reason in the normal course of events you would not overtake a funeral, a lot of posters myself included argued that the reason you would not is a question of manners and respect.

But what has not been explained is WHY it is considered unmannerly and disrespectful to overtake or pass by a funeral. It has been repeatedly stated that it just is.

Is it the noise of the vehicle passing? Is it an assumption that they are angry at the procession for going slowly? Is it a health and safety issue? Is this just what you have been told by somebody and you take it on face value? Is it simply that many people take being overtaken as a personal insult? Why exactly is passing considered disrespectful?

Captain Flaps

farmchoice wrote: »

we seem to be discussing slightly different things,
the original poster asked is their any reason in the normal course of events you would not overtake a funeral, a lot of posters myself included argued that the reason you would not is a question of manners and respect.

you seem to be arguing the reasons you might overtake a funeral procession, woman in labour, house on fire, and i agree they and others are very good reasons for doing such a thing.

I think it's only gone that way because there are certain posters whose reaction was akin to "You overtook a funeral procession? You MONSTER". Slightly hyperbolic there, but there are some strongly held views held by some who don't seem willing to accept an alternative.

TheChizler wrote: »

But what has not been explained is WHY it is considered unmannerly and disrespectful to overtake or pass by a funeral. It has been repeatedly stated that it just is.

Is it the noise of the vehicle passing? Is it an assumption that they are angry at the procession for going slowly? Is it a health and safety issue? Is this just what you have been told by somebody and you take it on face value? Is it simply that many people take being overtaken as a personal insult? Why exactly is passing considered disrespectful?

It's the same reason some people cross themselves passing a church/funeral/statue of mary. It's about tradition and religion and pomp and ceremony.

haveringchick

isn't it amazing how funerals or weddings or basically any life event with even the vaguest connection with old Irish religious traditions gets the blood boiling of those whose dearest wish is to consign those old religious traditions to the bin!
For some, the sooner the better we dispense with that old nonsense with the church and the priest and the prayers and the graveyard.
It'll be old, sick, nuisance, euthanized, speeding to the crematorium, consigned to history.
Then no one will have to worry that those pesky mourners are going to make me 5 minutes late for the Star Wars Convention!

Ave Sodalis

haveringchick wrote:

isn't it amazing how funerals or weddings or basically any life event with even the vaguest connection with old Irish religious traditions gets the blood boiling of those whose dearest wish is to consign those old religious traditions to the bin! For some, the sooner the better we dispense with that old nonsense with the church and the priest and the prayers and the graveyard. It'll be old, sick, nuisance, euthanized, speeding to the crematorium, consigned to history. Then no one will have to worry that those pesky mourners are going to make me 5 minutes late for the Star Wars Convention!

Can you point out one post which states any of this? Where's the reasoning behind your post?

farmchoice

sup_dude wrote: »

And yet you have multiple posts where you condemn and disrespect anyone who doesn't follow your line of thinking. You have not taken the view that those who don't is because they see it as a sign of repect... your posts are mostly abusing those who do overtake.

If people want to sit behind a funeral because they believe it to be a mark of respect, fine. If people want/need to overtake in a quiet manner, fine.

there is a world of difference between want and need.

Captain Flaps

Perfect timing on my part there

TheChizler

haveringchick wrote: »

isn't it amazing how funerals or weddings or basically any life event with even the vaguest connection with old Irish religious traditions gets the blood boiling of those whose dearest wish is to consign those old religious traditions to the bin!
For some, the sooner the better we dispense with that old nonsense with the church and the priest and the prayers and the graveyard.
It'll be old, sick, nuisance, euthanized, speeding to the crematorium, consigned to history.
Then no one will have to worry that those pesky mourners are going to make me 5 minutes late for the Star Wars Convention!

I'd be interested to see which posts in this thread you deduced this from.

JustShon

haveringchick wrote: »

isn't it amazing how funerals or weddings or basically any life event with even the vaguest connection with old Irish religious traditions gets the blood boiling of those whose dearest wish is to consign those old religious traditions to the bin!
For some, the sooner the better we dispense with that old nonsense with the church and the priest and the prayers and the graveyard.
It'll be old, sick, nuisance, euthanized, speeding to the crematorium, consigned to history.
Then no one will have to worry that those pesky mourners are going to make me 5 minutes late for the Star Wars Convention!

I love how out-of-nowhere this is. Especially the random vitriol thrown at Star Wars right at the end, just because.

Ave Sodalis

farmchoice wrote:

there is a world of difference between want and need.

Not in this case there isn't. Why does it matter to you if someone overtakes, as long as they don't rev the engine/make a scene? How can you tell from a progression if someone is overtaking due to want or due to need? Are you going to ignore the rest of the post?

JustShon

farmchoice wrote: »

there is a world of difference between want and need.

I agree here. I think if you're just nipping down to the shops you can wait, or even if you're meeting up with somebody you can give them a quick call or text letting them know you'll be late.

I'm only on the side of overtaking in the case of genuinely important, time-sensitive issues.

Special Circumstances

JustShon wrote: »

I love how out-of-nowhere this is. Especially the random vitriol thrown at Star Wars right at the end, just because.

Them computer nerds have the country ruined you know!
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/storms/computer-nerds-and-lack-of-common-sense-creating-safety-issues-in-floods-garda-34344307.html

Captain Flaps

He hadn't seen my edit when that post was published, hence my perfect timing comment. I hit edit, made the comment, then hit submit, and his claim had been made in the meantime.

Captain Flaps

Farmchoice, I live beside a church/graveyard in south Dublin. I park down the side of the church and there are traffic lights/a yellow box in front of the church allowing the road where I park access to the main road. There are often funeral processions which come along the main road and turn into the church via the junction with the yellow box/lights. Which is more rude, for the procession to be split by the lights and traffic to exit my road through the middle, or for the procession to break the red and move into the church as one continuous line?

haveringchick

TheChizler wrote: »

I'd be interested to see which posts in this thread you deduced this from.

Not the posts, but the posters, TBH.:o

farmchoice

sup_dude wrote: »

And yet you have multiple posts where you condemn and disrespect anyone who doesn't follow your line of thinking. You have not taken the view that those who don't is because they see it as a sign of repect... your posts are mostly abusing those who do overtake.

If people want to sit behind a funeral because they believe it to be a mark of respect, fine. If people want/need to overtake in a quiet manner, fine.

has anyone here actually said they have ever overtaken a funeral? i thought we were taking about a hypothetical.

i'm sticking to my guns on this, overtaking a funeral would be considered bad manners, because it shows a lack of respect. if this statement and others like it constitutes abusing posters on here then so be it.

Ave Sodalis

farmchoice wrote:

i'm sticking to my guns on this, overtaking a funeral would be considered bad manners, because it shows a lack of respect. if this statement and others like it constitutes abusing posters on here then so be it.

Except this isn't what you said. You've been implying that anyone who doesn't see it as manners are disrespectful and haven't been raised well.

What lack of respect and why?

farmchoice

Captain Flaps wrote: »

Farmchoice, I live beside a church/graveyard in south Dublin. I park down the side of the church and there are traffic lights/a yellow box in front of the church allowing the road where I park access to the main road. There are often funeral processions which come along the main road and turn into the church via the junction with the yellow box/lights. Which is more rude, for the procession to be split by the lights and traffic to exit my road through the middle, or for the procession to break the red and move into the church as one continuous line?

well in the first case would we be accusing the traffic lights of bad manners? in the second instance someone would be breaking the law, now as much as i abhor bad manners i have never elevated good manners to a place above the law of the land.

JustShon

farmchoice wrote: »

if this statement and others like it constitutes abusing posters on here then so be it.

I think it was other comments calling people psychopaths and knobs and a couple of other things for overtaking funerals. You've been respectful at least, even if I don't fully agree with you.

Ave Sodalis

Captain Flaps wrote:

farmchoice still hasn't answered my question of whether it's EVER acceptable, and if so under what circumstances, and if my idea of acceptable circumstances differ to his which of us is right etc.

I'd like to further this question and ask if it's ever acceptable, how can you tell a person is overtaking for an acceptable or unacceptable reason?

Captain Flaps

farmchoice wrote: »

well in the first case would we be accusing the traffic lights of bad manners? in the second instance someone would be breaking the law, now as much as i abhor bad manners i have never elevated good manners to a place above the law of the land.

In the first case we wouldn't, HOWEVER the traffic lights have been placed to allow cars to merge and keep traffic flowing. If it's not rude to move from one road to another at a lighted junction (potentially joining the procession between key vehicles) just because the traffic lights have said you legally can, I don't see why it's any worse for this to happen on a road with no lights.

sup_dude wrote: »

how can you tell a person is overtaking for an acceptable or unacceptable reason?

Exactly, can you not have the manners not to question the business of others and live and let live?

farmchoice

sup_dude wrote: »

Except this isn't what you said. You've been implying that anyone who doesn't see it as manners are disrespectful and haven't been raised well.

What lack of respect and why?

not raised well? ya that would be one of the reasons although i know some people who were were raised well and still have no manners but they would be the exception.

the question of why it is respectful has been answered over and over, in short because a family is grieving a loss and are in the process of burying that person, as part of that they take a journey from a church, hall, funeral home, whatever, to a grave yard. it is manners and respectful not to interfere with that and to give that procession the road for those few minutes.

in the case of an emergency a person may need to flaunt that social convention.

Ave Sodalis

farmchoice wrote:

not raised well? ya that would be one of the reasons although i know some people who were were raised well and still have no manners but they would be the exception.

And this right here is why I have a problem with your posts. You think there's something wrong with people who don't agree with your ideals, and yet you claim to be an advocate of respectful behaviour.

SterlingArcher

You roll down the windows.. play this track and chill.


https://youtu.be/iDpYBT0XyvA

MrMorooka

Can people accept that there are many people who have never heard of these traditions? I would just pass the funeral, or walk past, or continue operating my business, or whatever. I wouldn't have thought twice about it unless I saw this thread. So I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful, I and others are just completely unaware that these actions are considered as such by (apparently) many rural folk.

farmchoice

sup_dude wrote: »

And this right here is why I have a problem with your posts. You think there's something wrong with people who don't agree with your ideals, and yet you claim to be an advocate of respectful behaviour.

OK, i would say in reply that i don't believe they are my ideals, but a social norm, in this society.

you are now going to ask me well who decides these norms who is to say what is right and wrong. that is a whole different argument but in this case if you were to take a national poll i would be very surprised if less then 95% of people did not consider it bad manner to overtake a funeral for no good reason.

if there is a good reason well then there is a good reason.

obviously the people observing this bit of overtaking don't know there is an emergency provoking it and will probably just suspect that that person is a disrespectful manner less so and so, but that's life at least you as the over-taker knew you has little choice it was an unavoidable circumstance,an emergency.

duffman3833

farmchoice wrote: »

OK, i would say in reply that i don't believe they are my ideals, but a social norm, in this society.

you are now going to ask me well who decides these norms who is to say what is right and wrong. that is a whole different argument but in this case if you were to take a national poll i would be very surprised if less then 95% of people did not consider it bad manner to overtake a funeral for no good reason.

if there is a good reason well then there is a good reason.

obviously the people observing this bit of overtaking don't know there is an emergency provoking it and will probably just suspect that that person is a disrespectful manner less so and so, but that's life at least you as the over-taker knew you has little choice it was an unavoidable circumstance,an emergency.

can any of those MOD guys on this setup a poll for this as im interested to see the results

Thoie

TheChizler wrote: »

But what has not been explained is WHY it is considered unmannerly and disrespectful to overtake or pass by a funeral. It has been repeatedly stated that it just is.

I explained why further up.

TheChizler wrote: »

Is it the noise of the vehicle passing? Is it an assumption that they are angry at the procession for going slowly? Is it a health and safety issue? Is this just what you have been told by somebody and you take it on face value? Is it simply that many people take being overtaken as a personal insult? Why exactly is passing considered disrespectful?

By the same token, why do we say thank you when someone hands us things? Why do you not slam the door on the face of the person behind you? Why do you say excuse me when you burp, or want someone to get out of your way? Why do we generally seek a bit of privacy to pee, rather than just piddling where ever we're standing?

The Sun King

If rushing home to your dying relative absolves you of rudeness, as some suggest, how do the people in the funeral line know this? "What a rude bast... Oh wait, he has a "rushing home to dead dad" sticker on his window. Phew."

Don't see the massive deal myself. Used to go out with a girl who would stop, look out the the hearse sadly and wait for it all to pass, while I'd be half way down the road. Nonsense.

Mesrine65

American sight, but a reasonable guideline...

https://www.funeralwise.com/learn/procession/

smash

haveringchick wrote: »

But Lexie, your accompanying your mother on her last journey shouldn't impact on Seamus
Its not HIS mother and he's not grieving and he has somewhere to be so why should he care?
If you find his creeping past your funeral cortege disrespectfull then that's your problem, gettit?

You've changed your tune. Did the penny finally drop?

Special Circumstances

Mesrine65 wrote: »

American sight, but a reasonable guideline...

https://www.funeralwise.com/learn/procession/

I wouldn't be following the "ye needn't be obeying traffic lights" guideline in this jurisdiction.

TheChizler

Thoie wrote: »

I explained why further up.



By the same token, why do we say thank you when someone hands us things? Why do you not slam the door on the face of the person behind you? Why do you say excuse me when you burp, or want someone to get out of your way? Why do we generally seek a bit of privacy to pee, rather than just piddling where ever we're standing?

Acknowledgement and appreciation of an action, not wanting to cause inconvenience, to acknowledge to somebody that you are sorry if your actions have offended them. You generally want to display concern for and not hinder the welfare of other people, I don't see how overtaking a funeral interferes with the welfare of those in the procession.

Cantona's Collars

A friend of mine was at a funeral yesterday and just as the cortege arrived at the graveyard a Hummer came up the road towards it and as they passed the hearse a group of a certain minority opened every available window and roared and shouted at the funeral party.A shower of disrespectful cnuts!

JustShon

zerks wrote: »

A friend of mine was at a funeral yesterday and just as the cortege arrived at the graveyard a Hummer came up the road towards it and as they passed the hearse a group of a certain minority opened every available window and roared and shouted at the funeral party.A shower of disrespectful cnuts!

Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

seamus

zerks wrote: »

A friend of mine was at a funeral yesterday and just as the cortege arrived at the graveyard a Hummer came up the road towards it and as they passed the hearse a group of a certain minority opened every available window and roared and shouted at the funeral party.A shower of disrespectful cnuts!

Yeah, that happened. /s

farmchoice

farmchoice wrote: »

just to be clear the reason is respect and manners, they are very good reasons for doing lots of things.

I think it's a wider thing, it's about acknowledging that the family behind that coffin are doing something agonising, making a final journey. That's the reason why it's traditionally slow, because it's the last thing the family will do for their loved one. Leaving them to do it undisturbed is recognising that on the worst day of someone elses life, they come first.

There might not be 'good' enough reasons for some to feel the can't overtake, but I think it's a nice nod to a common human experience and it's devastation. We all lose people, it's nice to think that people care enough to show they understand by literally not putting themselves first by overtaking.

Only in the case of an absolute emergency would I ever overtake a funeral.

osarusan

Overtaking in a 'oh ffs get out my way' is very different from a 'sorry, let me squeeze by there'.

My grandmother was buried 13 days ago in west Clare. We drove from the church to the graveyard. There were a couple of other cars unknowingly caught up in it. When it came time to park on the narrow country lane, cars pulled over to the side, while those cars caught up in it went slowly on.

Nothing rude or disrespectful about it.

osarusan

osarusan wrote: »

Overtaking in a 'oh ffs get out my way' is very different from a 'sorry, let me squeeze by there'.

My grandmother was buried 13 days ago in west Clare. We drove from the church to the graveyard. There were a couple of other cars unknowingly caught up in it. When it came time to park on the narrow country lane, cars pulled over to the side, while those cars caught up in it went slowly on.

Nothing rude or disrespectful about it.

Sorry for your loss Osarusan.

osarusan

Candie wrote: »

Sorry for your loss Osarusan.

She was 94 and ready. All her children and grandchildren got a chance to say goodbye.

Thoie

TheChizler wrote: »

Acknowledgement and appreciation of an action, not wanting to cause inconvenience, to acknowledge to somebody that you are sorry if your actions have offended them. You generally want to display concern for and not hinder the welfare of other people, I don't see how overtaking a funeral interferes with the welfare of those in the procession.

But they're all just social convention. Why do we feel the need to acknowledge and appreciate someone's action? Why would we care if we'd offended someone? Why display concern for others? They're all just a group of social conventions that cultures develop so that we (usually) don't walk around stabbing each other.

If you were in a country where it's considered rude to eat with your left hand, you'd probably go along with it, even though it makes no sense to us. Staying behind a funeral in Ireland is just another cultural quirk.

TheChizler

Thoie wrote: »

But they're all just social convention. Why do we feel the need to acknowledge and appreciate someone's action? Why would we care if we'd offended someone? Why display concern for others? They're all just a group of social conventions that cultures develop so that we (usually) don't walk around stabbing each other.

Empathy?

ScumLord

Thoie wrote: »

But they're all just social convention. Why do we feel the need to acknowledge and appreciate someone's action? Why would we care if we'd offended someone? Why display concern for others? They're all just a group of social conventions that cultures develop so that we (usually) don't walk around stabbing each other.

If you were in a country where it's considered rude to eat with your left hand, you'd probably go along with it, even though it makes no sense to us. Staying behind a funeral in Ireland is just another cultural quirk.

That's not true at all, I'm pretty shocked that people can't show a bit of respect to a funeral. I come from a small town and funerals are one thing that gives me some faith in humanity, the whole town shows respect, shops turn off lights, people turn off cars and even if you didn't really know the person you'd give your respects. Well, I don't go to funerals, I hate the things, but most other normal people do go.

Sure there are people that go to funerals just as a social outlet, in many ways the funeral is the one social activity that small towns can still hold onto. It's the last great reason for us all to come together. I'm not a huge fan of that but I understand it, for some people funerals are the social outlet of their age group.

No one has anywhere they really need to be so badly that they need to over take a funeral. Take some time, whether it's to contemplate your own existence, remember your own loved ones that have passed away, or catch up on a bit of After hours moaning.

smash

ScumLord wrote: »

That's not true at all, I'm pretty shocked that people can't show a bit of respect to a funeral.

What if, like a lot of people, the deceased was a complete arsehole?

RayM

smash wrote: »

What if, like a lot of people, the deceased was a complete arsehole?

Even the families of complete arseholes deserve a bit of respect.

Thoie

TheChizler wrote: »

Empathy?

Precisely, and that's why you don't force your car into the middle of a funeral procession. There are very few country roads where you could safely overtake 4-5 cars plus a hearse (and that would be a tiny funeral), so overtaking will usually involve an amount of leapfrogging, and the possibility of inserting yourself between the chief mourners and the hearse. Empathy for others stops you from slamming doors in people's faces, but you don't seem to be applying it to the bereaved?

ScumLord wrote: »

That's not true at all, I'm pretty shocked that people can't show a bit of respect to a funeral. I come from a small town and funerals are one thing that gives me some faith in humanity, the whole town shows respect, shops turn off lights, people turn off cars and even if you didn't really know the person you'd give your respects. Well, I don't go to funerals, I hate the things, but most other normal people do go.

Sure there are people that go to funerals just as a social outlet, in many ways the funeral is the one social activity that small towns can still hold onto. It's the last great reason for us all to come together. I'm not a huge fan of that but I understand it, for some people funerals are the social outlet of their age group.

No one has anywhere they really need to be so badly that they need to over take a funeral. Take some time, whether it's to contemplate your own existence, remember your own loved ones that have passed away, or catch up on a bit of After hours moaning.

I think you've picked me up wrong - I'm in favour of stopping, taking your time and letting a funeral go by, and certainly not trying to overtake it.

smash

RayM wrote: »

Even the families of complete arseholes deserve a bit of respect.

So we should show faux respect for people who are showing faux respect? otherwise it will cause faux outrage...

ScumLord

smash wrote: »

What if, like a lot of people, the deceased was a complete arsehole?

He's dead now, there's no need to treat his family and friends like their assholes. Just because someone is an asshole doesn't mean they weren't loved and people aren't sorry to see them go.

Thoie wrote: »

I think you've picked me up wrong - I'm in favour of stopping, taking your time and letting a funeral go by, and certainly not trying to overtake it.

I wasn't directing anything at you, I was speaking in general about this thread.

the_pen_turner

I would never overtake a funeral unless it was on a motorway or I had an actual emergency(like on my way to a and e)
if it was an emergency I would seek out the relatives and apologise
I was on a job a few years ago and the client (big extension on their offices) told us there was a funeral coming later and to close the gates and down tools. I thought it was a great way to show respect

smash

ScumLord wrote: »

He's dead now, there's no need to treat his family and friends like their assholes.

RayM

smash wrote: »

So we should show faux respect for people who are showing faux respect? otherwise it will cause faux outrage...

No, we should probably just try not to behave like arseholes ourselves.