Driving behind a Funeral etiquette

screamer

Yep I have to say I don't get this fake respect for an unknown person passing by in a hearse. Now id not try to overtake it purely for my own safety. What drives me nuts is when everyone in the other side of the road stops and brings the town or village to a standstill. Life is for living move on nothing to see here..... it's like extreme rubber necking or something.

jippo nolan

haveringchick wrote: »

You really should lobby your TD to try to introduce a minimum speed for mourners walking behind a hearse as it seems to irritate you so much. Traffic signs could be erected on popular routes to graveyards, people like you could tip of Gardai as to breaches of the law by ringing in car regs, supported by evidence from your dashcam.
I mean, it's not as if you'll ever be old and bereaved or anything quite so utterly pathetic as that, is it?

What about a brisk trot?

smash

RayM wrote: »

No, we should probably just try not to behave like arseholes ourselves.

Nobody has yet to explain with an actual valid reason other than "because you shouldn't" as to why it's not ok to overtake a funeral. Respect is perceived and everyone's perception is different.

Galwayguy35

If I come up behind a funeral I wait until it turns off where it is going to, apart from being too dangerous to overtake a line of cars it's a sh1tty thing to do overtaking all the cars.

ToddyDoody

Surely you'd pull over and shake the hands of the relatives of the deceased?

haveringchick

Thoie wrote: »

I explained why further up.



By the same token, why do we say thank you when someone hands us things? Why do you not slam the door on the face of the person behind you? Why do you say excuse me when you burp, or want someone to get out of your way? Why do we generally seek a bit of privacy to pee, rather than just piddling where ever we're standing?

I'm already finding plenty of people who don't say thanks, please, etc
You only have to travel on public transport for a few minutes to observe fit healthy people seated while vulnerable people stand
It was unthinkable even 20 years ago to see a young man sitting on a bus while an old frail person stands
It's commonplace now
You will even come across an attitude that the younger person paid for the seat so is entitled to sit
It's all about me now, my rights, my entitlement.

haveringchick

RayM wrote: »

No, we should probably just try not to behave like arseholes ourselves.

If you are an arsehole it is hard not to behave like an arsehole though, in fairness

byhookorbycrook

A friend of mine from Conemara had a tradition of having to walk three steps with any funeral ,whilst I find that OTT, personally, I wouldn't overtake a funeral on a country road, motorway or N road, yes.

haveringchick

smash wrote: »

You've changed your tune. Did the penny finally drop?

Changed my tune .... penny drop... you don't get irony really, do you smash?

haveringchick

sup_dude wrote: »

And this right here is why I have a problem with your posts. You think there's something wrong with people who don't agree with your ideals, and yet you claim to be an advocate of respectful behaviour.

Having manners is an old fashioned version of not being a complete knob
Nothing to do with ideals
Does anybody think that being a knob is ok?
Only other knobs
They're not deserving of any respect

Kiwi in IE

screamer wrote: »

Yep I have to say I don't get this fake respect for an unknown person passing by in a hearse. Now id not try to overtake it purely for my own safety. What drives me nuts is when everyone in the other side of the road stops and brings the town or village to a standstill. Life is for living move on nothing to see here..... it's like extreme rubber necking or something.

That's exactly what it's like. I don't understand how at the worst time/moment of their lives, people who have lost someone close can put up with having people who are acquaintances at best, coming into their homes and the funeral parlour to have a gawp, then have people gawp, stare and make a show of 'paying respect' as they walk after the hearse. I couldn't bear any of it.

When my OH's uncle died there was a ribbon on the door, and I kid you not, I was in there with my father in law, who was grieving, and some person he had never met (nor had he met the deceased) came and knocked on the door, introduced himself and asked all sorts of questions about the deceased. It made me feel really angry initially, because I could hear the intrusive questioning from out in the hallway and I knew my FIL was not up to such ****e. In the end though when he came back inside and I asked him did he even know who that was, when he answered no, we both ended up falling about the place laughing, so it did lighten the moment somewhat.

I find the whole public affair of funerals horrible to be honest. I was really shocked how people that the family barely knew or didn't know at all hung about them like flies. To me at times like that you want your nearest and dearest and everyone else can F*%# off. Each to their own, but when my grandfather died, the very last thing I would have been up for is a public show and parade. I also hate how people here seem to be buried/cremated about 20 seconds after they have died. How the feck can you get your head around a loved ones death and plan the funeral you want them to have in 48 hours? OH's uncles funeral was a massive culture shock for me to be honest.

haveringchick

Kiwi Irish people suffer similar culture shock when they experience death and funeral rites abroad, in particular in the UK where many millions of Irish live.
Irish people are equally horrified at the sometimes almost 3 weeks that can lapse between a death and a funeral in the UK
They are horrified at how neighbours and work colleagues appear to ignore the fact that your cherished loved one has died,
They are most horrified at the low attendance at the actual service and the what appears to us to be a cold standoffishness even among family members never mind outsiders
Here it's considered very peculiar if you are not crying and gasping for breath and clutching wildly at the same cousin you slapped across the face on New Years Night for making a pass at your husband
In the UL some reserved quiet sobbing is just about tolerated, but that it
What's proper order in NZ?

kylith

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I also hate how people here seem to be buried/cremated about 20 seconds after they have died. How the feck can you get your head around a loved ones death and plan the funeral you want them to have in 48 hours? OH's uncles funeral was a massive culture shock for me to be honest.

I don't know what standard practise in NZ is but the quickness of the funeral is because we don't routinely embalm here. Leave a corpse more than a couple of days and it starts getting a bit, em, 'ripe'.

Kiwi in IE

haveringchick wrote: »

Kiwi Irish people suffer similar culture shock when they experience death and funeral rites abroad, in particular in the UK where many millions of Irish live.
Irish people are equally horrified at the sometimes almost 3 weeks that can lapse between a death and a funeral in the UK
They are horrified at how neighbours and work colleagues appear to ignore the fact that your cherished loved one has died,
They are most horrified at the low attendance at the actual service and the what appears to us to be a cold standoffishness even among family members never mind outsiders
Here it's considered very peculiar if you are not crying and gasping for breath and clutching wildly at the same cousin you slapped across the face on New Years Night for making a pass at your husband
In the UL some reserved quiet sobbing is just about tolerated, but that it
What's proper order in NZ?

Very similar to what you described of UK funerals. Private affair, family and friends. The only time you would attend a funeral of someone you didn't properly know (more than acquaintance), is if the deceased was a sibling, parent or grandparent of a very close friend, and so you would be going to support them.

If a work colleague lost a family member (unless you are good enough friends with the colleague to spend time with them outside work), you would not attend the funeral. You would have a collection and buy flowers for the colleague and maybe buy a personal sympathy card yourself, but not attend the funeral. I guess culturally we consider it intrusive and somewhat rude to intrude or impose ourselves on others when they are grieving (I'm not sure if this is conscious or subconscious), I never thought about it until OH's uncles funeral when I felt horrified at how intrusive people seemed to be with his family.

Funerals, cremations or burials would be at least a week after the death. As you said it could be up to three weeks, particularly if there are family who need to come from overseas. If I died tomorrow, my family actually wouldn't have time to reach Ireland before my funeral, if it were to be done in the usual Irish timeframe (which I've made OH promise me it won't be). You simply cannot organise flights and get from NZ to Ireland within 48 hours. Personally I much prefer the idea of the family having time to spend together to try and adjust to the death and to plan a funeral that the person would have wanted. I remember after OH's uncle died, at a time when I just wanted to spend time being with family and supporting those who needed it, I was rushing around a shopping centre trying to find funeral appropriate clothes for Little Kiwi 24 hours after the death. It was just horrible.

Viewings of the dead would always be private. Family/best friends, certainly not neighbours and work colleagues of cousins. I remember I almost burst out laughing when some old biddy (casual acquaintance that would know them no better than saying hello in passing on the street) came in to view OH's uncle, went right up to the coffin and remarked to my FIL "Doesn't he look well". It was just surreal.

I'd say you guys would get a massive culture shock in NZ too and find the way we do death very strange, it is very different, but on saying that an Irish style funeral could easily be accommodated in NZ and I'm sure they probably are (although I don't know about the time frame). We have a real mix of cultures within the country and each will have their own ways. The traditional Maori and Pacific Island way of doing funerals is a several day affair, and closer to an Irish style funeral. Our preferences are all to do with how we have been brought up/what we are used to obviously, but I have made OH promise me that if I die here, I get a NZ style funeral.

Ave Sodalis

haveringchick wrote:

Having manners is an old fashioned version of not being a complete knob Nothing to do with ideals Does anybody think that being a knob is ok? Only other knobs They're not deserving of any respect

Your posts are coming across so pleasant... so now because people don't realise other people's idea of manners, they're knobs. Bit hypocritical, no?

Kiwi in IE

sup_dude wrote: »

Your posts are coming across so pleasant... so now because people don't realise other people's idea of manners, they're knobs. Bit hypocritical, no?

In fairness manners are culturally relative, to me staring at mourning people, attending funerals when you don't know the deceased or the family, going to visit and impose yourself upon grieving relatives who you don't know well at their most difficult moment, or going to view the corpse of a person who you didn't know beyond a casual, passing hello, is not behaviour that scores points for good manners. I actually think however that some colleagues of mine who have lost family members possibly think I have bad manners, as I didn't attend the funeral, because to me doing so would have been bad manners, before I got the hang of how it seems to work here. I still would never go to the house or go to view the deceased, but I might now attend the funeral, since it seems to be expected here.

smash

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

In fairness manners are culturally relative, to me staring at mourning people, attending funerals when you don't know the deceased or the family, going to visit and impose yourself upon grieving relatives who you don't know well at their most difficult moment, or going to view the corpse of a person who you didn't know beyond a casual, passing hello, is not behaviour that scores points for good manners. I actually think however that some colleagues of mine who have lost family members possibly think I have bad manners, as I didn't attend the funeral, because to me doing so would have been bad manners, before I got the hang of how it seems to work here. I still would never go to the house or go to view the deceased, but I might now attend the funeral, since it seems to be expected here.

Why would you though? There's been plenty of times I've never attended a funeral because I didn't know the person. Even when it was expected!

Kiwi in IE

smash wrote: »

Why would you though? There's been plenty of times I've never attended a funeral because I didn't know the person. Even when it was expected!

I said might. I certainly wouldn't always. If it was a colleague who I got on well with and spent a lot of time with at work I might go. It hasn't happened since I became aware that funeral going thresholds are much lower here than back home. I don't know if I would when it came down to it, to be honest it would feel quite uncomfortable I think. It might be preferable to being thought to be rude and uncaring and easier than attempting to explain the cultural difference in death etiquette though.

kylith

I wouldn't attend the funeral of a colleague's relative either, unless they were a good friend of mine. Going to the funeral of someone you don't know would be crass and would smack of being either a looky-lou or after a free meal.

Kiwi in IE

kylith wrote: »

I wouldn't attend the funeral of a colleague's relative either, unless they were a good friend of mine. Going to the funeral of someone you don't know would be crass and would smack of being either a looky-lou or after a free meal.

Maybe all these funeral customs we are discussing are more particular to rural areas and small towns? I have nothing to compare as have only lived in small town since we've been in Ireland.

I can't really imagine people traipsing through Dublin city centre after a hearse.

Ave Sodalis

I would go to a wake of a friend's relative if they were close but I wouldn't be going for the deceased, I'd be going to make sure the friend was coping okay, had enough to eat etc.

haveringchick

sup_dude wrote: »

Your posts are coming across so pleasant... so now because people don't realise other people's idea of manners, they're knobs. Bit hypocritical, no?

If someone hands you something and you don't say thank you , you're a knob
If you ask the waitress to bring more bread in the restaurant and you don't say please, you're a knob
If your young and fit and your sitting in a seat on a bus and an old person gets on and has to stand as the seats are all occupied, and you don't get up and offer your seat, you're a big knob
Do you agree or not?

Kiwi in IE

I'm from an NZ city and now live in an Irish small town. Maybe it's totally different in Irish cities, and it's quite possible that Kiwis start behaving bizarrely at funerals once you leave urban areas too

Kiwi in IE

sup_dude wrote: »

I would go to a wake of a friend's relative if they were close but I wouldn't be going for the deceased, I'd be going to make sure the friend was coping okay, had enough to eat etc.

Yeah me too and that is all! If you are not mutually close enough for you to be worried, and for them to want/need your support, you don't go in my book.

osarusan

sup_dude wrote: »

I would go to a wake of a friend's relative if they were close but I wouldn't be going for the deceased, I'd be going to make sure the friend was coping okay, had enough to eat etc.

Indeed. At my grandmother's funeral, I saw 4 or 5 friends/neighbours of my mother there. I know them all, and I'm certain that apart from one set of neighbours, they never met my grandmother at all.

They were there for my mother, and for her alone, to show support and friendship.

Kiwi in IE

As for the stopping thing, I would remain behind while driving, but no way would I stop and gawp at a funeral passing if I were walking down the street. Nor would I stop if coming from opposite direction, but I would slow down for the safety of those walking on the road.

haveringchick

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Maybe all these funeral customs we are discussing are more particular to rural areas and small towns? I have nothing to compare as have only lived in small town since we've been in Ireland.

I can't really imagine people traipsing through Dublin city centre after a hearse.

This is it kiwi it's totally different in Dublin. I couldn't believe it when my MIL died in Dublin , Lord have mercy on her sweet kind soul.
First of all no funerals on Sunday and BH! What's all that about?
The Undertaker brought her back to the house on the Sunday morning (to be waked) buffered off and didn't come back till Tuesday (Monday was a Public holiday)!
I was outraged!
Here, the Undertaker more or less moves in with you during the wake and takes care(undertakes!) of every little thing
And only some of the neighbors came into the house, and they weren't really offered tea at all.
I said nothing, but I was shocked

Kiwi in IE

haveringchick wrote: »

This is it kiwi it's totally different in Dublin. I couldn't believe it when my MIL died in Dublin , Lord have mercy on her sweet kind soul.
First of all no funerals on Sunday and BH! What's all that about?
The Undertaker brought her back to the house on the Sunday morning (to be waked) buffered off and didn't come back till Tuesday (Monday was a Public holiday)!
I was outraged!
Here, the Undertaker more or less moves in with you during the wake and takes care(undertakes!) of every little thing
And only some of the neighbors came into the house, and they weren't really offered tea at all.
I said nothing, but I was shocked

Whose is supposed to make tea for these neighbours, acquaintances and random rubberneckers and clean up after they go? The family who have just lost a person they dearly love? They can all feck off with their tea!

Ave Sodalis

haveringchick wrote:

If someone hands you something and you don't say thank you , you're a knob If you ask the waitress to bring more bread in the restaurant and you don't say please, you're a knob If your young and fit and your sitting in a seat on a bus and an old person gets on and has to stand as the seats are all occupied, and you don't get up and offer your seat, you're a big knob Do you agree or not?

The first two show appreciation as someone is doing something for you. The third is because you are better able to stand. All of these make sense and can be explained why they are manners.

Kiwi in IE

haveringchick wrote: »

If someone hands you something and you don't say thank you , you're a knob
If you ask the waitress to bring more bread in the restaurant and you don't say please, you're a knob
If your young and fit and your sitting in a seat on a bus and an old person gets on and has to stand as the seats are all occupied, and you don't get up and offer your seat, you're a big knob
Do you agree or not?

sup_dude wrote: »

The first two show appreciation as someone is doing something for you. The third is because you are better able to stand. All of these make sense and can be explained why they are manners.

Also I imagine that the above described mannerly behaviour is not as culturally specific as funeral customs. These would be considered polite, considerate behaviour in most, if not all cultures. This is clearly not the case with the funeral customs we have been discussing, as some of what is considered appropriate funeral etiquette here would be considered odd at home, and some, like rocking up to the house of a newly bereaved family you don't know well, expecting to be served tea and cakes, would be considered rude and inappropriate.

haveringchick

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Whose is supposed to make tea for these neighbours, acquaintances and random rubberneckers and clean up after they go? The family who have just lost a person they dearly love? They can all feck off with their tea!

Usually a neighbor/s just come in and take over or a member of the extended family
I have seen hundreds of people who travelled a distance to express their condolences, over a 24 hour period take tea and refreshments all prepared and washed up in the deceased persons kitchen

Cantona's Collars

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, that happened. /s

It did I'm afraid,I guess you've never been to Enniscorthy? We've quite the population of that minority.
It's odd because the older ones tend to be very respectful when it comes to things like funerals.

storker

The Backwards Man wrote: »

The graveyards are full of people with things to do and places to be.

..and the people who had the misfortune to be on the same road as them.

EndaHonesty

storker wrote: »

..and the people who had the misfortune to be on the same road as them.

I bet you thought your post would be hilarious?







It's not.

Cantona's Collars

EndaHonesty wrote: »

I bet you thought your post would be hilarious?







It's not.

There's always a few,wait until they have the misfortune of having a loved one in the back of a hearse.It's not so funny then.
Usually in a town it is a short distance from the church to the graveyard and traffic is held up for at most a few minutes,I've been held up longer at times by some auld wan trying to park a car.

haveringchick

zerks wrote: »

There's always a few,wait until they have the misfortune of having a loved one in the back of a hearse.It's not so funny then.
Usually in a town it is a short distance from the church to the graveyard and traffic is held up for at most a few minutes,I've been held up longer at times by some auld wan trying to park a car.

The auld road rage does be very bad though in small men who think they're big car makes them very important
I don't understand road rage
Last Sunday I had an important appointment in a large town 40 minutes drive away, even though it was Sunday I left 20 to spare but ended up late due to a diversion on the motorway and a funeral cortège in the destination town
Themselves just the breaks you win some you lose some
It can't be helped

Ave Sodalis

zerks wrote:

There's always a few,wait until they have the misfortune of having a loved one in the back of a hearse.It's not so funny then. Usually in a town it is a short distance from the church to the graveyard and traffic is held up for at most a few minutes,I've been held up longer at times by some auld wan trying to park a car.

When you don't know it's bad manners, you tend not to get offended. Anytime I've had a loved one in a hearse, I didn't notice any cars overtaking and would have been more shocked if others, who were supposed to be mourning, were more concerned about being overtaken than the funeral itself. I would consider it even more badly mannered to expect to hold everyone up because of it, and before this thread, if I had heard someone at the funeral of a loved one whinge about cars passing, I would have thought they had a seriously messed up sense of priority. If anyone either refused to let traffic pass, or moaned about traffic that does at my funeral, I'd come back to haunt them.

Not only did I not realise it's bad manners, I didn't realise it's such bad manners that it's a taboo subject to be even joked about...

Kiwi in IE

I'm not sure what is the purpose of walking down the middle of the road after the hearse. It seems crass, almost like a St Patrick's day or Christmas parade. I'm not very comfortable with grief and loss being turned into a public parade or show.

It was suggested to me by a relative at OH's uncle's funeral that Little Kiwi should read out a prayer in the church. I thought that would be totally inappropriate and refused to allow it. To me it seemed that the whole idea was because he is small and cute, so therefore should be put on display like a performing monkey for the entertainment of the old biddy professional funeral attendees, to give them something to 'awwww isn't he cute' over. It would be over my own dead body that my upset 7 year old would be used as a public spectacle at a relatives funeral.

Pinch Flat

zerks wrote: »

There's always a few,wait until they have the misfortune of having a loved one in the back of a hearse.It's not so funny then.
Usually in a town it is a short distance from the church to the graveyard and traffic is held up for at most a few minutes,I've been held up longer at times by some auld wan trying to park a car.

What puzzles me is the constant rush or urgency some people seem to have - what can possibly be so urgent? or is is just impatience and ignorance. You'll probably find that people who post here saying they'll overtake and blare the horn or whatever might not do it in reality - in my nearly 30 years of driving, I can honestly say I've never been unduly delayed by a funeral cortege, that is not to the extent where I had someone dying or giving birth in the car.

reminds me of a thread I posted a few years back about motorists being impatient on St. Stephen's Day - I'd drove at the speed limit in my neighborhood while taking the car to the phoenix park for a much needed post dinner walk with my family. The amount of impatient drivers that overtook, some rather irresponsibly, some beeping / flashing, while I was driving the speed limit was amazing. And then I posed the question - what can possibly be the rush?

Final straw though was the Phoenix Park itself - where I stopped to let a lady wheeling a pram cross at a pedestrian crossing - some nut job behind me (a 'lady' with several children in the car no less), proceeded to overtake me while stopped, ploughed across the pedestrian crossing and almost took the lady and her pram out in the meantime.

This was to get to an almost empty car park, located in a dead end. The amount of posters that annihilated me - she was crossing at an unofficial crossing, holding up traffic, should not be there etc was quite worrying.

Some people are just d!cks and take pride in displaying it at every opportunity.

kylith

Kiwi, I guarantee that it was unlikely to be to put him on show; for the older generation there would be a lot of honour in being chosen to take part in a relative's funeral and it would be a mark of devotion and respect to do it.

As for the procession, I do think you're right. Though the initial tradition of the slow parade was because no-one would have had a car it became a way of demonstrating wealth to your neighbours to have a horse-drawn hearse with plumes and flowers. As a wag once put it; you'd die of shame if people thought you could only afford a poor funeral. It would also be another show of devotion from the family to put themselves into debt to ensure that the neighbours saw that they loved granddad enough to get the extra-fancy hearse with the extra-black horses with the extra-big plumes on their heads.

While the ostentation has, largely, died out the tradition of the procession remains.

seamus

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I'm not sure what is the purpose of walking down the middle of the road after the hearse. It seems crass, almost like a St Patrick's day or Christmas parade. I'm not very comfortable with grief and loss being turned into a public parade or show.

It's symbolic, accompanying the deceased on their "final journey" to their "resting place". Think of it like an escort for a fallen soldier, being carried and/or defended by their comrades as they're taken from the battlefield.

There's still a lot of ego in these things; people feel the bigger the procession, the more respected the person was. And being respected is for many people a sign that the deceased was a good person.

I imagine Charlie Haughey had a big procession though, so that logic doesn't stack up.

You'd be surprised the amount of taboo around death and the discussion of death that still exists in Ireland. People still cling to old traditions and funeral rites because they don't feel like it's appropriate to challenge them.

It was suggested to me by a relative at OH's uncle's funeral that Little Kiwi should read out a prayer in the church. I thought that would be totally inappropriate and refused to allow it. To me it seemed that the whole idea was because he is small and cute, so therefore should be put on display like a performing monkey for the entertainment of the old biddy professional funeral attendees, to give them something to 'awwww isn't he cute' over.

Yes and no. Like I say, there is still a lot of ego in funerals and people taking the opportunity (intentionally or otherwise) to show off how great their family is. But symbolically a lot of people like to get children involved to add an air of "hope" to the day. To show that while this person has passed on, there is a younger generation coming up behind, that the person hasn't died without a legacy.

Ego, yes. But not with any malice or cyncism in it.

Kiwi in IE

I agree with you both Kylith and Seamus that there was no malice intended, but to me the only purpose having a small child doing something like that, could possibly serve, is to 'show off' in some way and have all the old biddies go 'awwwww'.

There does seem to be a large element of ego involved, which is why I find it crass I think. Death, grief and loss to me are about being with those who are very close to you and emotionally supporting each other. It just doesn't seem the appropriate time for a public show involving people who hardly know the deceased or the family.

seamus

I guess if you think of it in the context of a village - everyone is a neighbour, everyone knows everyone. So if someone throws any kind of party it becomes public by default - everyone is invited. This happens with weddings too - I've seen weddings between people in two separate villages end up with 600 guests.

So in terms of a funeral you can see why it becomes a "public" event, since everyone in the village would be at the funeral whether it was public or not. The traditions then of the procession and whatever else persist for years even though they may not be appropriate any more for modern populations.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I doubt there's many people while mourning too interested in showing off the deceased grand niece or nephew. Usually finding people to read out prayers, you ask who you think wouldn't mind doing it, and kids generally don't get as bogged down about reading out loud in front of other people

kylith

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

There does seem to be a large element of ego involved, which is why I find it crass I think. Death, grief and loss to me are about being with those who are very close to you and emotionally supporting each other. It just doesn't seem the appropriate time for a public show involving people who hardly know the deceased or the family.

Oh, I'd agree. And maybe it is different in rural communities where everyone knows everyone and have done for generations, or amongst the older generation; and even then there'd be people talking behind their hands about so-and-so who just turned up for the free sandwiches.

It's changing now though. My parents and aunts don't even know their neighbours any more.

Seanachai

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I agree with you both Kylith and Seamus that there was no malice intended, but to me the only purpose having a small child doing something like that, could possibly serve, is to 'show off' in some way and have all the old biddies go 'awwwww'.

There does seem to be a large element of ego involved, which is why I find it crass I think. Death, grief and loss to me are about being with those who are very close to you and emotionally supporting each other. It just doesn't seem the appropriate time for a public show involving people who hardly know the deceased or the family.

I think you've highlighted some interesting social behavior in Ireland, where I come from for the most part a funeral is almost like a clan gathering. It's almost like a chance to show off your connections, however crass that may appear to some people, especially those from an urban background.

Even bachelors would have large funerals in rural Ireland. There is an element of pride and ego involved for sure, I think ego has been a maligned and misunderstood thing though in some ways. My parents come from big families and any family funerals I've been to would fill the village/town, relatives would come home from England and the person's life would be celebrated. Unless it was the death of a young person or a tragedy there would be a lot of laughter and stories being told.

From the few protestant funerals I've witnessed, they seem to be more reserved affairs, they tend to be a minority though so they wouldn't really have the numbers I suppose.

storker

EndaHonesty wrote: »

I bet you thought your post would be hilarious?

Er...no, it was meant quite seriously. Dangerous drivers have an unfortunate habit of taking innocent people with them. I don't see anything funny about that, and I don't know why anyone would imagine otherwise.

ScumLord

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I agree with you both Kylith and Seamus that there was no malice intended, but to me the only purpose having a small child doing something like that, could possibly serve, is to 'show off' in some way and have all the old biddies go 'awwwww'.

There does seem to be a large element of ego involved, which is why I find it crass I think. Death, grief and loss to me are about being with those who are very close to you and emotionally supporting each other. It just doesn't seem the appropriate time for a public show involving people who hardly know the deceased or the family.

But the thing is sometimes the funeral is the first time friends and families may have seen each other in years, people sometime travel from all over the world. If they didn't bring the baby you'd have a load of disappointed people. I think babies at funerals is a great symbol of how life goes on, the baby is always going to brighten up a room and take away some of death's scariness.

haveringchick

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I doubt there's many people while mourning too interested in showing off the deceased grand niece or nephew. Usually finding people to read out prayers, you ask who you think wouldn't mind doing it, and kids generally don't get as bogged down about reading out loud in front of other people

First of all I'd imagine it was a genuine effort to include a child one of whoms parent is a relatively new arrival to these shores, a very thoughtful gesture I would say
I second what you are saying about kids and reading aloud in church
Whilst it is a privilege to be asked to take an active role in the farewell ceremony, it can be difficult to speak if you are feeling very emotional as many attendees are, so it can be quite difficult to get a willing participant
Small lids don't have hang ups about speaking and if they weren't familiar with the deceased or are too small to understand the finality then they are an excellent choice for short pieces like prayers of the faithful
In the RCC requiem mass the priest says"let us take the remains of our brother/sister Paddy/Mary to his/her final resting place" this precedes the pushing of the coffin down the aisle and the slow walk to the graveyard that is the tradition in lists of towns and villages in rural Ireland
The family friends and community are seeing the mortal remains of the dead person safely to his her final resting place
En route yes, some people will gawp and stare at the mourners but that's human nature
Most people who stop as the cortège passes, either on foot or in cars, are simply showing empathy and respect