How much is your home electricity bill

gabsdot40

I'm just wondering how much people's electricity bill increased after buying a EV. Our bill seems to be very high and I'm wondering if it's normal.
When we bought the car the bill went up by around 110 per month to 278. Buying the car coincided with getting an electric shower so the increase is probably a combination of both.
We switched to another provider and the bill went down considerably but out of the blue we've been hit with a bill for 459 for one month.
Any thoughts

mylesm

gabsdot40 wrote: »

I'm just wondering how much people's electricity bill increased after buying a EV. Our bill seems to be very high and I'm wondering if it's normal.
When we bought the car the bill went up by around 110 per month to 278. Buying the car coincided with getting an electric shower so the increase is probably a combination of both.
We switched to another provider and the bill went down considerably but out of the blue we've been hit with a bill for 459 for one month.
Any thoughts

That Sounds Very High for one month have you a dual tariff meter

You should read your meter yourself and note the reading then read it again say 3 Days later and calculate how many units you have used and then work out cost should give you an idea of average day

steelboots

I'm getting my leaf next Friday, so can't say for sure but most commentary I've seen is about €250 euro for 20,000kms.

An increase of €110 per month is a massive increase. To give you an indication my bill is about €120 per month for a family of 2 adults + 4 kids, with electric shower, and all clothes dried by an electric tumble dryer. We use each of the electrical appliances about 12 times per week (dishwasher, washing machine, dryer).

Couple of things:

1) You supplier is probably estimating your usage to low, and then when an actual reading is done they are charging you for the deficit. You bill the next month may will drop back, there is no way you should be paying €278 per month unless you have heaters in the attic to grow plants
2) Have you switched to night saver so you can time the leaf to charge at night (at half the rate) and use the delay time on your appliances ?
3) How many miles are you driving the leaf per year ?

Could be just a bad timing, i.e. first time the meter was read for ages (and lots of estimated bills before). Do you have a dual rate meter?

Our two full bimonthly electricity bills since installation of night saver meter and rate negotiations were:

170E
110A

The bill used to normally be around 90-120 depending on the season etc. so looks to have gone up by about 30..40 per bill, i.e. 20ish a month. House power usage has over doubled from the past but we now use night time rate for dishwasher, charging, and washing machine. We use roughly twice as much power at night rate compared to day rate.

Leaf has now 14k on the clock in 5 months so we have used it a lot and most of the charging is done at home these days.

HTH.

cros13

My bill is lower by about €30 a month vs. before getting an EV with a nightsaver meter.
Actual unit usage is up about 75%. Doing ~5000km a month on the EV.

Electric showers are a very bad idea. Pumped showers are the way to go.

Scottie99

I guess it was an estimate, then a reading and finally estimate.
Have you an off peak facility?

Off peak 0.08x24=€1.92
Peak 0.18x24=€4.32
Maximum for charging your car.


I like everyone are paying around €250/70 bimonthly. Weekly km is around 5/600km

Bearing in mind you will rarely need a full charge, I doubt many people will be regularly getting home with less than 20% remaining charge.

Anyway my night rate electricity costs 8.4 C/Kwh Night and 17 C/Kwh day.

Based on my average consumption of 18 Kwh/100 Kms it would cost about 300 Euro's to drive 20,000 Kms if I managed to do all my driving on night electricity.

If you got a monthly bill for petrol or diesel it would cost nearly 4 times more at 55 mpg, but most people pay no attention when they pay for diesel in 30-50+ Euro fill ups and I find it rather interesting they would actually think their electricity bill is expensive with the EV considering the cost of petrol or diesel.

a 55 mpg average mpg diesel , that's 5.13 L/100 Kms would pay 1,200 euro's to cover the same distance.

EV 20,000 Kms 300 Euro's night rate.

Diesel 1,200 @ 55 mpg.

EV 40,000 Kms 600 Euro's night rate.

Diesel 2,400 Euro's.

There are many people getting far less then 55 mpg average. 55 mpg, 5.13 l/100 Kms calculated by not resetting the trip computer to allow it calculate the long term average.

While most people will get away charging mainly at night. Others will have to do some topping up during the day. Even so it's far cheaper than petrol or any diesel.

A night meter is advisable, why pay twice the price ?

With the future 200 mile range electrics 320 kms due in late 2017 early 2018 , you can be pretty sure than 99% of your driving will indeed be met with home charging at night.

sgalvin

My last bill for 2 months was €420.

Before I got the car.
Winter bills have were €300 / 2 months
Summer €200 / 2 months.

The car consumed ~1,000 kWh in 3 months or €160 at dayrate at home.

€55 month for 1,700km/month.

i use a good bit of heat and don't worry too much about maximising range and I don't have nightrate.

The electric companies quote an average usage of 5,300 kWh per year for domestic users.
I heat with oil but last year mine was 8,000 kWh and the car will add 4,000 kwh more this year!!

The flat rate plans offered by the sales teams will be based on this 5,300 if you are a big user. Then you get a "balancing bill" to make up the difference after a while.

You are not "leaking" electricity so don't worry about it. The 1cent/km is rubbish, 1.5-3 cent/ km is where it is depending on whether you charge on night/dayrate.

gabsdot40 wrote: »

I'm just wondering how much people's electricity bill increased after buying a EV. Our bill seems to be very high and I'm wondering if it's normal.
When we bought the car the bill went up by around 110 per month to 278. Buying the car coincided with getting an electric shower so the increase is probably a combination of both.
We switched to another provider and the bill went down considerably but out of the blue we've been hit with a bill for 459 for one month.
Any thoughts

My consumption the last year was 5,100 Kwh for the house and the car to drive the EV 28,000 Kms, however, some of this charging has been done with the free public charging and my work charge point.

If I had the 30 kwh then all my commute would be met with the work Charge point !

My average consumption before getting the Leaf was 6.5 Kwh per day, with the leaf 15.5 Kwh per day after a year.

Whatever anyone thinks their bill is, the same amount of miles on diesel would be much, much more expensive.

Try do most of your charging on night rate.

Better still, if you have an ICE car, drive it the same amount of miles per 2 months , get a fuel card from Topaz and then see what you pay !

Again, to drive the Leaf 20,000 Kms will cost around 300 Euro's on night rate, 40,000 Kms will cost 600 Euro's.

cros13

sgalvin wrote: »

The car consumed ~1,000 kWh in 3 months or €160 at dayrate at home.

You really should get a nightsaver meter. I used 3800kWh for the first 30,000km on my i3 including charging losses (from the OWL meter on the line to the charger). €300 including a little daytime charging. I pay 7.4c/kWh night rate.

My savings by using the built-in timers on the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer to push them to the night rate saved over €600/year.

steelboots

cros13 wrote: »

I pay 7.4c/kWh night rate.

Who is your provider cros13 ? Sounds cheap !

Sam Kade

gabsdot40 wrote: »

I'm just wondering how much people's electricity bill increased after buying a EV. Our bill seems to be very high and I'm wondering if it's normal.
When we bought the car the bill went up by around 110 per month to 278. Buying the car coincided with getting an electric shower so the increase is probably a combination of both.
We switched to another provider and the bill went down considerably but out of the blue we've been hit with a bill for 459 for one month.
Any thoughts

Is that for 1 month or 2 months as bills are for 2 months?

pwurple

WTF, those bills are CRAY CRAY! 459 euro for electricity! Is that estimated or a reading?

I've a household of 5 people, nightsaver, electric car, 2 electric showers, and my last bill was €145 for two months (64 days) with Panda Power. It normally is in the €100 - €120 range, but our au-pair is running her electric blanket and extra electric heater non-stop because she is stone cold frozen here in this climate, which is fair enough.

I've tracked my bills over 5 years, when we got the electric car and switched to night-saver our bills dropped by 10% on previous years.

Now, we are not heavy users, we have the car 9 months so far, doing about 1500km per month.

Sam Kade

pwurple wrote: »

WTF, those bills are CRAY CRAY! 459 euro for electricity! Is that estimated or a reading?

I've a household of 5 people, nightsaver, electric car, 2 electric showers, and my last bill was €145 for two months (64 days) with Panda Power. It normally is in the €100 - €120 range, but our au-pair is running her electric blanket and extra electric heater non-stop because she is stone cold frozen here in this climate, which is fair enough.

I've tracked my bills over 5 years, when we got the electric car and switched to night-saver our bills dropped by 10% on previous years.

Now, we are not heavy users, we have the car 9 months so far, doing about 1500km per month.

Christ, how do you manage all that and have such a low bill?

By the way OP, do you need an electric shower ?

I have central heating and this gives me tonnes of water, I had an electric shower years ago and got rid of it for a pumped only shower when I realised I was wasting all that hot water in the tank !

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

a 55 mpg average mpg diesel , that's 5.13 L/100 Kms would pay 1,200 euro's to cover the same distance.

EV 20,000 Kms 300 Euro's night rate.

Diesel 1,200 @ 55 mpg.

EV 40,000 Kms 600 Euro's night rate.

Diesel 2,400 Euro's.

Looking at those numbers I wonder is that like for like?

Looking at the Nissan website, the Pulsar seems to be the diesel equivalent of the Leaf. A 1.5 SV Pulsar costs €23,595 and gets 78 MPG.

So 20,000 KMs would cost just €792 per year.

Now I think if I was buying a Leaf, the only option would be a SVE + 30 kWh battery + cool pack + 6kw charger, so €28,200 *

* Yes, I know slightly unfair comparison, but I think these are completely necessary options to create a somewhat equivalent car.

That is a €5805 difference, it would take almost 12 years to make up the difference at these Diesel and Electric prices!

Doesn't seem really worth it for the trade off of the trouble of dealing with limited range, long charging times, etc.

Of course that doesn't take into account all cost differences. A Leaf has lower maintenance costs, but then it seems to suffer from greater depreciation. Of course the price of diesel may increase or decrease as might the price of electric. Then you have to factor in the ESB echarges, whatever they are.

Certainly doesn't seem to be a slam dunk from the cost perspective.

KCross

pwurple wrote: »

WTF, those bills are CRAY CRAY! 459 euro for electricity! Is that estimated or a reading?

I've a household of 5 people, nightsaver, electric car, 2 electric showers, and my last bill was €145 for two months (64 days) with Panda Power. It normally is in the €100 - €120 range, but our au-pair is running her electric blanket and extra electric heater non-stop because she is stone cold frozen here in this climate, which is fair enough.

I've tracked my bills over 5 years, when we got the electric car and switched to night-saver our bills dropped by 10% on previous years.

Now, we are not heavy users, we have the car 9 months so far, doing about 1500km per month.

That sounds too good to be true. Standing charge and levy alone would be about 50 regardless of what you use so that means you are using less that €50 per month for electricity.

Are your bills estimated and you just happened to get an easy bounce this month based on an estimated bill?.... something definitely is odd with those figures.

steelboots

bk wrote: »

Looking at those numbers I wonder is that like for like?

Looking at the Nissan website, the Pulsar seems to be the diesel equivalent of the Leaf. A 1.5 SV Pulsar costs €23,595 and gets 78 MPG.

So 20,000 KMs would cost just €792 per year.

Now I think if I was buying a Leaf, the only option would be a SVE + 30 kWh battery + cool pack + 6kw charger, so €28,200 *

* Yes, I know slightly unfair comparison, but I think these are completely necessary options to create a somewhat equivalent car.

That is a €5805 difference, it would take almost 12 years to make up the difference at these Diesel and Electric prices!

Doesn't seem really worth it for the trade off of the trouble of dealing with limited range, long charging times, etc.

Of course that doesn't take into account all cost differences. A Leaf has lower maintenance costs, but then it seems to suffer from greater depreciation. Of course the price of diesel may increase or decrease as might the price of electric. Then you have to factor in the ESB charges, whatever they are.

Certainly doesn't seem to be a slam dunk from the cost perspective.

- Leaf has a higher spec.
- There is no way you will get the quoted 78mpg, closer to 55-60mpg.
- Maintenance difference could be significant, especially as the car gets older.
- Lower road tax.
- Lower insurance.

Range isn't an issue for those buying a leaf or you wouldn't buy it in the first place. If I have to go on longer journeys I look forward to my free fuel
Lets face it, this is the way cars are moving so its just a matter of time and we will all be driving EVs....

Rafal

Deleted User wrote: »

By the way OP, do you need an electric shower ?

I have central heating and this gives me tonnes of water, I had an electric shower years ago and got rid of it for a pumped only shower when I realised I was wasting all that hot water in the tank !

Uh-oh. I think a subforum for shower and plumbing-related discussions with you as its moderator would be great to have.

pwurple

KCross wrote: »

That sounds too good to be true. Standing charge and levy alone would be about 50 regardless of what you use so that means you are using less that €50 per month for electricity.

Are your bills estimated and you just happened to get an easy bounce this month based on an estimated bill?.... something definitely is odd with those figures.

Actual readings.

Standing charge: 64 days@0.4631 = 29.64
PSO levy @ 5.01 per mont = 10.02
plus VAT @13% = €44

My unit prices are €0.1467 day and 0.0712 night (without vat).
Usage over the 2 months was under 500 units for day and under 400 for night.

So yes, around 100 euro of leccie over 2 months, plus standing charge.

How many units are you guys using?

cros13

steelboots wrote: »

Who is your provider cros13 ? Sounds cheap !

Airtricity on a multi-property account.

KCross

pwurple wrote: »

Actual readings.

Standing charge: 64 days@0.4631 = 29.64
PSO levy @ 5.01 per mont = 10.02
plus VAT @13% = €44

My unit prices are €0.1467 day and 0.0712 night (without vat).
Usage over the 2 months was under 500 units for day and under 400 for night.

So yes, around 100 euro of leccie over 2 months, plus standing charge.

How many units are you guys using?

Yea, I suppose thats about right. During the summer I'd use 500 day and 400 night as well. Using more now as I have electric driven heating (Geothermal) so I would have one or two bills around 400 for 2 months during the cold winter months and then it settles back to around €200

I had not heard of Panda before. Must look at them when my contract is up as they are slightly cheaper than Airtricity right now by about 1c.

steelboots

go to Bonkers.ie and it asks you a few basic questions and will tell you who is cheapest. Its telling me I could save €360 per year off my bill. That should cover the Leaf fuel for the year. Happy days !

bk

steelboots wrote: »

- Leaf has a higher spec.

How? I mean obviously I added extra options, but those are necessary for a reasonable range. But I don't see much other differences, I was comparing a SV Leaf with a SV Pulsar.

steelboots wrote: »

- There is no way you will get the quoted 78mpg, closer to 55-60mpg.

Fair enough.

steelboots wrote: »

- Maintenance difference could be significant, especially as the car gets older.

But so could depreciation on the Leaf which seemingly has one of the worst depreciation rates in the uk!

steelboots wrote: »

- Lower road tax.

€120 versus €180 hardly breaking the bank and an ESB eCharge subscription of €17 per month could quickly wipe that saving out and a lot more!

steelboots wrote: »

- Lower insurance.

Really, why would that be? Surely the insurance on a car that costs almost €6000 more, is going to cost more?

steelboots wrote: »

Range isn't an issue for those buying a leaf or you wouldn't buy it in the first place.

Err... that is some twisted logic there!

steelboots wrote: »

If I have to go on longer journeys I look forward to my free fuel

But it isn't really free, you paid €6000 more for almost the same car and you have to pay for the electricity and possibly ESB eCar subs and charges in future.

€6000 at a more realistic 60 MPG will buy you almost 110,000 km of range!

You are looking at 6 years to break even! And that isn't including the extra interest on an extra €6000!

Actually €6000 extra at 7.8% APR over 3 years costs €7,400, which would give you 145,000 km to break even.

I'm not saying it can't be good value for some people (doing 40 to 60k per year maybe?), I'm just looking at it for myself. I'm increasingly thinking perhaps a PCP on a Diesel like this for 3 years and then perhaps re-evalute on perhaps a 200 mile Leaf 2 in 3 years time, assuming available by then.

steelboots wrote: »

Lets face it, this is the way cars are moving so its just a matter of time and we will all be driving EVs....

Oh, I couldn't agree more. They are definitely the future, I'm just not sure they are the present for most people.

bk

bk wrote: »

Looking at those numbers I wonder is that like for like?

Looking at the Nissan website, the Pulsar seems to be the diesel equivalent of the Leaf. A 1.5 SV Pulsar costs €23,595 and gets 78 MPG.

So 20,000 KMs would cost just €792 per year.

Now I think if I was buying a Leaf, the only option would be a SVE + 30 kWh battery + cool pack + 6kw charger, so €28,200 *

* Yes, I know slightly unfair comparison, but I think these are completely necessary options to create a somewhat equivalent car.

That is a €5805 difference, it would take almost 12 years to make up the difference at these Diesel and Electric prices!

Doesn't seem really worth it for the trade off of the trouble of dealing with limited range, long charging times, etc.

Of course that doesn't take into account all cost differences. A Leaf has lower maintenance costs, but then it seems to suffer from greater depreciation. Of course the price of diesel may increase or decrease as might the price of electric. Then you have to factor in the ESB echarges, whatever they are.

Certainly doesn't seem to be a slam dunk from the cost perspective.

78 mpg are the European farcical NEDC simulated tests.

55 mpg is about the average based on user reviews on what car, So I'd trust that a lot more than an NEDC test.

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/real-world-mpg-economical-family-cars/1223365

For instance, the Bluemotion Golf TDI 88 mpg helped by the NEDC test, makes VW look good, real life economy 56 MPG.

There's a whole lot of cars in a similar boat. They're not going to get much more out of Diesel engines, not unless the make the whole car out of carbon.

There is no point using U.K depreciation for Ireland, a lot of cars in the U.K suffer very high depreciation due to the massive amount of leased cars in fact it's become such a problem that there were talks of eliminating PCP for certain cars. I read an article on it a while back.

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no point using U.K depreciation for Ireland, a lot of cars in the U.K suffer very high depreciation due to the massive amount of leased cars in fact it's become such a problem that there were talks of eliminating PCP for certain cars. I read an article on it a while back.

Yes, but that also highly effects the Irish second hand market, due to imports etc. And I've been hearing the same issues with Leaf depreciation here in Ireland.

BTW I reworked the figures down to 60 mpg and it is still a massive gap to make up. 55mpg wouldn't make much difference.

gabsdot40

Thank you all for your responses. we'll have to take a good look at our usage and see where savings can be made. I've been shouting at the kids to turn off lights since the bill arrived.

The Leaf doesn't loose it's value nearly as much as the U.K.

In fact, it's 2nd hand value is as good and sometimes better than all but the premium brand cars.

You also don't pay 7.6% interest on the full cost of a car on PCP .

I pay 450 PM inc the trade in of the Prius. Almost half that is paid by not paying for fuel.

Anyway we're going OT here,

I got actual monthly consumption data to share later.

sgalvin

I have been using a megane 1.5 dci for the last week in place of my Fluence ZE.
5.0 l/100/km was the actual consumption or 6.5cent/km.

Model for model the leaf is ca €1,000 more than the pulsar for the 1.5dci engine.

Not sure if you can get an Automatic option on it but would be ca €1,500 (optional price on Renault with same engine) which I would probably take as there are a lot of gear changes todo!

Over the life of both (excluding major failures)
€1,000/year dsl vs nightrate €10,000
Clutch €500
Timing belt €500
Servicing (save €150/yr) €1,500

This pushes you into a very basic micra

pwurple

gabsdot40 wrote: »

Thank you all for your responses. we'll have to take a good look at our usage and see where savings can be made. I've been shouting at the kids to turn off lights since the bill arrived.

Lights are not going to be the big drain. Think about things that heat, rather than light, those really suck the juice.

So your immersion, tumble dryer, electric shower, electric heaters, kettle, oven, grills, electric hob, hairdryers or tongs, heated blankets... and maybe some items that are on a lot of the day, and get warm during use. PC's, TV's etc.

I actually found in my old house, we had a jump in a bill, and it turned out to be a problem with our fridge. The thermostat was gone wonky and the fridge/freezer was on far more than it should have been.

pwurple

bk wrote: »

Really, why would that be? Surely the insurance on a car that costs almost €6000 more, is going to cost more?

Just my own experience, even though we went to a car which had a much larger value than our old one, my insurance dropped because I was in an EV. Maybe Eco-drivers are more conscientious?

cros13

pwurple wrote: »

Just my own experience, even though we went to a car which had a much larger value than our old one, my insurance dropped because I was in an EV. Maybe Eco-drivers are more conscientious?

My insurance on a €62,000 i3 was less than on a 2012 €18,000 Avensis.

Pulsar,

22,300 XE Trim

23,595 SV

26, 395 SVE,

I think the cost of the Leaf is pretty good, + there's no gears, Remote activation of heat and AC.

+ the XE LEaf is 20,500 if you want basic EV with ultra cheap running costs.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

My insurance on a €62,000 i3 was less than on a 2012 €18,000 Avensis.

62K ? Rex and what ?

@8

Ok, so now I can connect to the Nissan EV app,

Here is actual real life data from the last year, with the exception of last January because I got the Leaf on the 20th and took a few weeks to get car wings working.

I drive quiet hard too.

Below is my monthly data starting February, I will calculate the monthly costs + 10 % for charger inefficiency, the charger is 90% efficient.

This is based on charging at night rate @8.4 C/Kwh, not all my charging is done at night rate and a significant amount has been from the public chargers and the work charge point so the total is substantially less than the total night rate figure.

February 460 Kwh for 2,578 Kms Cost 42.50

March 502 Kwh 2,785 Kms Cost 46.37

April 461 Kwh 2,645 Kms 42.59

May 280 Kwh 1,643 Kwh 25.87

June 397 Kwh 2,415 Kms 36.67

July 347 Kwh 2,095 Kms 32.54

August 414 Kwh 2,532 Kms 38.17

Sept 448 Kwh 2,679 Kms 41.39

Oct 439 Kwh 2,362 Kms 40.55

Nov 448 Kms 2,388 Kms 41.39

Dec 439 Kwh 2,247 Kms 40.55

I can't be bothered to add the total, you get the idea, now think about all the free electricity I got from the charge points and the work charge point. Even if I didn't, that's way cheaper than Diesel, even the most efficient diesel. Even if all your driving was on day rate, it's still a lot cheaper.

You can always add Solar PV and Wind to the mix ! Remember these figures are including 10% for the charger inefficiency which is about 90% efficient !

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

62K ? Rex and what ?

REx with every option. That's after the grant and VRT credit.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

REx with every option. That's after the grant and VRT credit.

:eek::eek:

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

Pulsar,

22,300 XE Trim

23,595 SV

26, 395 SVE,

I think the cost of the Leaf is pretty good, + there's no gears, Remote activation of heat and AC.

+ the XE LEaf is 20,500 if you want basic EV with ultra cheap running costs.

Huh?! The XE Leaf is 21,490 per the Nissan site.

And the Pulsar XE 1.2 liter petrol starts 20,695

And you more then anyone know that the XE leaf with no options is pretty rubbish. Very limited range, really no more then a city car.

To get a decent vehicle with any real range performance you have to get the SV for the heat pump and then add the 30kWh battery, cold pack and 6kw charger.

Just so you have some sort of decent range, but still wouldn't have the range of even the XE Pulsar.

Realistically the Leaf is about 5000 to 6000 more then the equivalent petrol/diesel.

You guys talk a lot about all your great cheap and free electricity, while leaving out the reality that you paid more then 5000+ more to get that ability. And unless you drive a lot more then 20,000 km per year, it really doesn't make financial sense.

The SV Leaf compares quiet favourably to the Diesel version.

I have no idea where you're getting it costs 5-6 K more than the equivalent petrol or diesel.

And the electric drive train is vastly superior to diesels or even petrols. and I know there are people who disagree but each to their own.

Like it or not, not having a gearbox is good, having pre heating is fantastic and very hard to part with.

Fuel savings are very real also.

The Heat pump makes a difference but in reality not a huge amount, and when you pre heat you don't use the heat pump.

Once you pre heat off the mains there isn't a lot in the difference. Preheating away from the mains there is no difference.

SV Pulsar 23,595

Leaf SV 24 Kwh 23,990 more equipment. Sat Nav and remote activating of heat and AC, look up the cost of parking heaters !

I'd like to know how you came to the figure of 5-6 K more expensive than the equivalent diesel or petrol ?

Whether anyone cares about not changing gears is up to them auto is worth up to 1,500 more but not available on the diesels.

The 30 kwh does add extra cost granted, but having that would eliminate my need to charge at home for all mu work commute.

steelboots

At the end of the day, different strokes for different folks. From my point of view the Leaf is a second car in my house. I use it to go to work which I can comfortably do with a 24kw Leaf and have 30% remaining. Once in a blue moon do I need to go bigger distances, and if I do then I have the choice of bringing the Leaf and have a few free charging points, or bring the main ICE car.

I'm getting a Leaf SVE 24kw with 6.6 charger for approx ~24K. Tell me what ICE that has Sat Nav, Bose sound system, full leather, all seats & steering wheel heated, remote connectivity to activate heating, for €40 be able to perform full diagnostics, require minimal servicing (no oil changes, timing belts DPF fluid, DPF filter etc..)

On the other hand if you doing large and unpredictable journeys then its not the car for you. To compare one against the other you have to take its purpose into consideration.

Ireland as a nation is very slow to adapt to new technology, I think there is a great opportunity to reduce the €6bn we are spending on imported on fuel and invest in renewable forms of power such as wind and solar, create more jobs and better for the environment. Its only a matter of time and the majority of cars will be electric once the range increases.

I remember I got my first mobile in '97 and I got an awful lot of slagging by my mates, saying it would never take off etc... who's laughing now. ICEs days are numbered, but you'll always have the nay sayers...........

Oh yeah I forgot about the heated front and rear seats and steering !

The 30 kwh will be handy for me, the work charge point will meet 100% of my 135 Km commute.

The faster charging ability on the fast charger will mean I can at least do the Airport run with a lot less time on the fast charger and there is another charger up near the airport or newlands or Naas. Either way it offers a lot more routes.

Maybe if I adjust my speed I can make the entire Airport tun on one charge.

cros13

bk wrote: »

Realistically the Leaf is about 5000 to 6000 more then the equivalent petrol/diesel.

The SV Leaf is higher spec than the SVE Pulsar.

The SV Leaf has the following that is either not included in the SV Pulsar or an option for extra charge:
NissanConnect 2
DAB
Rear View Camera
Auto Hill Hold
iPod connectivity
A bigger touchscreen (7" vs 5")
Privacy Glass
Front sliding armrest (paid option on the SV Pulsar included in the SVE)

KCross

bk wrote: »

Huh?! The XE Leaf is 21,490 per the Nissan site.

And the Pulsar XE 1.2 liter petrol starts 20,695

And you more then anyone know that the XE leaf with no options is pretty rubbish. Very limited range, really no more then a city car.

To get a decent vehicle with any real range performance you have to get the SV for the heat pump and then add the 30kWh battery, cold pack and 6kw charger.

Just so you have some sort of decent range, but still wouldn't have the range of even the XE Pulsar.

Realistically the Leaf is about 5000 to 6000 more then the equivalent petrol/diesel.

You guys talk a lot about all your great cheap and free electricity, while leaving out the reality that you paid more then 5000+ more to get that ability. And unless you drive a lot more then 20,000 km per year, it really doesn't make financial sense.

Im somewhat similar to you, I'm still on the fence but for different reasons. I dont agree with your logic/figures though. I think some of your assumptions are wrong.

You are adding the bigger battery and then using that as a means to say its not worth it. You only buy that bigger battery if you need it.

If a 60kwH Leaf comes out in a few years and is a few grand more again are you going to say that that extra costs is wasted money also making the Pulsar an even better option then?

The point is you pay for the larger battery on the basis that you need the range and you will be saving more fuel costs since you will be doing more driving and hence it will pay for itself.

Importantly, you are also writing off the entire €5k-€6k(which is an over inflated value to begin with) as "lost value" when it wont all be lost. That value is still in the car for resale later. The amount the car depreciates is a worry but every car depreciates so trying to figure out how much it will depreciate is just a guess. Too many factors to guess it accurately, particularly in this EV sector as it is relatively new. So, if you go EV you just have to take a gamble on depreciation unfortunately.... going the PCP route and upgrading every 3 years is a way to insulate yourself some bit from that, but PCP isnt cheap either.

I played around with a few figures to compare Pulsar 1.5d and Leaf. The XE and SV Leaf have the same 24kwH battery and much the same range. By my reckoning based on a Diesel price of 1.19c/ltr and electricity at 8.58c/kwh and driving 20k kms a year, assuming the Pulsar is doing 55mpg, the savings in running costs (tax, diesel, electricity only) are just short of €1000 a year and the XE Leaf is €905 cheaper to buy!

I dont include the cost of PCP or maintenance costs because they should be much the same for 2 new cars under warranty. Obviously for 2nd hand owners the maintenance costs will be a bigger factor and will lean more in favor of the Leaf.

Now, your example, you compared the SV's with 30kwH battery (€3k) and 6.6kw charger(€900). That's fine if you need the longer range. Most people wont if its used as a runaround type car... relatively short commute to work, school runs etc. But just to run the numbers on that.... since you have the larger battery the assumption would be you are doing more driving so it costs €4295 more to buy that SV Leaf than the SV Pulsar but the fuel savings are going to be twice that of the 20k kms example so you will save close to €2k a year and thats all home charging.

If you have an understanding employer who gives you free elec you will save more. So, the extra €3900(rather than your €6k) will be paid for within 2 years and ongoing yearly savings of €2k beyond that. If you keep the car long term you then have to factor the saving the Leaf will have over the Pulsar on maintenance.

The guys that have the Leaf on here have spoken about a few other extras the Leaf has over the Pulsar as well so you need to factor that in and also the greener environment element.

In another few years there will likely be multiple battery sizes/options to choose from and the bigger the battery the more it costs to buy but the main point is that you only buy the battery size you need for the commute you have. If you are not doing the mileage to justify it you have wasted your money, unless its just for piece of mind which is a personal thing.

I think the numbers do stack up for EV based on my research. So why dont I have one you ask!

I'm close to jumping. The depreciation was/is a worry. I also wanted to get some feedback from the folks on here first that have bought the 30kwH to see what that is like. And I need to sit with a dealer and trash out figures after that on my ICE trade-in... my first approach hasnt been favorable for my ICE!

I may buy in the next couple of months.

Im happy to share my calculations if you feel I've misrepresented your figures/reasoning.

Ah come on lads, this thread is about electricity bills.

This EV never makes sense topic has been bet to death on boards.

By all means create another thread to go over it all again and again.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok, so now I can connect to the Nissan EV app,

Here is actual real life data from the last year, with the exception of last January because I got the Leaf on the 20th and took a few weeks to get car wings working.

I drive quiet hard too.

Below is my monthly data starting February, I will calculate the monthly costs + 10 % for charger inefficiency, the charger is 90% efficient.

This is based on charging at night rate @8.4 C/Kwh, not all my charging is done at night rate and a significant amount has been from the public chargers and the work charge point so the total is substantially less than the total night rate figure.

February 460 Kwh for 2,578 Kms Cost 42.50

March 502 Kwh 2,785 Kms Cost 46.37

April 461 Kwh 2,645 Kms 42.59

May 280 Kwh 1,643 Kwh 25.87

June 397 Kwh 2,415 Kms 36.67

July 347 Kwh 2,095 Kms 32.54

August 414 Kwh 2,532 Kms 38.17

Sept 448 Kwh 2,679 Kms 41.39

Oct 439 Kwh 2,362 Kms 40.55

Nov 448 Kms 2,388 Kms 41.39

Dec 439 Kwh 2,247 Kms 40.55

I can't be bothered to add the total, you get the idea, now think about all the free electricity I got from the charge points and the work charge point. Even if I didn't, that's way cheaper than Diesel, even the most efficient diesel. Even if all your driving was on day rate, it's still a lot cheaper.

You can always add Solar PV and Wind to the mix ! Remember these figures are including 10% for the charger inefficiency which is about 90% efficient !

Back on topic, in case someone missed it.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come on lads, this thread is about electricity bills.

This EV never makes sense topic has been bet to death on boards.

By all means create another thread to go over it all again and again.

@Mad_Lad, I thought bk was the moderator!... Alas I digress again!

KCross

KCross wrote: »

@Mad_Lad, I thought bk was the moderator!... Alas I digress again!

But I'm the Mad_Lad ! :pac:

DrPhilG

My electric bill has usually been around €220 for 2 months. Sometimes as low as €190, occasionally as high as €240.

Bill issued 2 days ago was €255 which is an all time high, but it does cover the Christmas period with lots of lights, the wife beating the hell out of the electric heater beside the bed, and 3 Christmas trees.

The amount added by the Leaf is pretty small in general. I charge maybe 3 times per week, average maybe 70% each time.

When I switched from diesel 6 months ago I started a savings account and set up a regular payment equivalent to what I'm saving on diesel, minus what I'm spending extra on electricity.

6 paydays later and that account has £960 sterling in it.

'the wife beating the hell out of the electric heater beside the bed."

I know what I'd do !!!