Acceptable amount of noise in the mornings

Butters1979

Graces7 wrote: »

Best part of the day and a reasonable time to be up and about.

It really is a horrible part of the day, especially this time of year. It's freezing cold and pitch black.

The point is though if that is what time you have to be up for work you can't really do much about it. It's difficult not to make any noise and if your friend is a light sleeper you can't do much.

I'd find it strange that you know him so long but can't discuss this with him without an argument. the fact it has upset your girlfriend and he tells you were to put the milk makes it sound like this guy is just a really fussy drama queen.

You can't worry about his financial position if you move out, it's not your job to subsides his life so he can live in a house, especially if he makes living there so difficult.

If you can afford a place on your own then move out. If you haven't lived with just yourself (and your partner) before you will find it is so much easier and you both will be much happier.

M5

I'm was a chronically light sleeper. Someone putting a key in the front door would often wake me. I bought a desk fan to drown out the little noises like that. I slept better and pissed my flatmates off less. Win win.

Arbiter of Good Taste

You know that putting heavy items in the refrigerator door (such as milk) can damage it with all the opening and closing.

sKeith

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

You know that putting heavy items in the refrigerator door (such as milk) can damage it with all the opening and closing.

I'd like to call BullSh1t on that.

Arbiter of Good Taste

sKeith wrote: »

I'd like to call BullSh1t on that.

Charming

Graces7

Nickolas Agreeable Steam wrote: »

Horrible part of the day that no one should have experience imo and most people are not up that early.

In fairness to the op I think he is really making an effort and there isn't much more he can do, I am regularly woken at between 6 and 7am by my housemate and he makes no such effort even with ear plugs he wakes me up at times and that taking into account he doesn't even use the shower in the morning just making noise around the house in general. It drives me insane I don't get up until 8:30 at the earliest and its seriously disturbing my sleep being woken up 2.5 hours earlier than I should. Imo before 8am people should treat it like 1am on the other side of the spectrum (again which the op is doing), I'm often still up at this time and would be really making an effort to keep noise to a minimum (well I've stopped caring as much now as I'm getting woken early so tough luck on my house mate why should I keep so quiet when he doesn't in the mornings).

I am up at 4 am or earlier to make contact with family in Canada. No different than being up at night when it is cold and dark. I go to bed very early of course.. Just is adapting and I love the fresh early hours.If Jack and Gill are so intolerant they need to live alone.

sKeith

I too don't see why somebody should be telling another housemate to make sure to store the milk in the door, but saying that storing milk in the door is somehow bad for a fridge and will damage it is not a good defense imho

Mrs OBumble

Nickolas Agreeable Steam wrote: »

most people are not up that early.

If you did a survey among all workers (not students!) then you might get a big surprise! Most office workers are due in at 8:30 or perhaps 9. Sleeping until 8:30 is for weekends only.

Graces7

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Charming

Just choked on my food reading your post!Well put!:D

intheclouds

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you did a survey among all workers (not students!) then you might get a big surprise! Most office workers are due in at 8:30 or perhaps 9. Sleeping until 8:30 is for weekends only.

Too right!!

I get up at 6.30am, am on the M50 by 7am and get a workout in before being at my desk at 9am.

The M50 is pretty packed at 7am!!

Butters1979

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

You know that putting heavy items in the refrigerator door (such as milk) can damage it with all the opening and closing.

I have yet to see a fridge door fall off because of milk. Also, when you say heavy, do you buy your milk by the drum?

Alf Veedersane

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Tramping about a house yakking at 06:30 is pretty offensive behaviour, the owner of the house would do better with more responsible tenants who get up a reasonable hour.

The owner should get in touch with the OP's unreasonable boss and the unreasonable physicists who haven't mastered quantum teleportation

dollyk

The plastic storage on the inside of the fridge does break from putting 2
litres of milk in that part, well my kids have broke it off so many times
that it is now glued on. Milk and juices can be very heavy, with the kids
slamming it several times a day

Snatchy

OP here.

Thanks for all the responses to date (some of which are very amusing and others just good advice). I found out yesterday that J & J also want to leave the flat at the end of the lease and I think we are all clear that both couples will be living separately (I told J & J yesterday that my gf and I have plans to buy within 12 months and want to live alone before then as a "trial-run" etc.) from August onwards.

I was hoping that they would tell me that they'd be looking to stay in the flat in which case I would have made a suggestion that my gf and I want to move out for personal reasons asap and that given that they'll need to find new flatmates in August, they might as well start looking now.

However, this leaves myself and my gf in a bit of a predicament: we haven't had a conflict with J & J yet but if we move out with only 6 months left in the lease (now knowing that they will also be leaving the flat after the lease), that's not really fair on J & J either and would lead to a conflict which would likely result in me losing a very old friend (as I've said before the majority of the "stuff" in the flat that makes it a home belongs to me and I would be taking it with me if we left). My gf and I don't have time to be looking for someone to sublet to and J & J would need to be happy with a new co-tenant. Is it all worth it over a couple of months of putting up with them?

It seems that the only sensible solution here is just to have a calm conversation with Jack next time he brings up something annoying. The reason I have not done this to date is because his is a man who has exceedingly firm convictions in the truth and accuracy behind everything he says and so a person like that isn't really going to think he is being unreasonable with some of his requests. For example: the day before yesterday, he was at the sink and had asked if I had been washing the dishes. After I answered in the affirmative, he said "can you make sure you leave the food catcher back inside the sink-hole because sometimes food gets caught and there is a rotten smell from the sink". My response was: "Jack, I had removed to make sure the sink-hole was clean and I don't think there is any smell in any event". His response was (in a semi-jokey but semi-serious tone): "It's basic hygiene FFS"!

"It's a bloody food-catcher in a sink - SO WHAT IF IT'S NOT IN THE SINK HOLE FROM TIME TO TIME?!!!". He then walked off in a sulk.

You're not going to convince a person who says these sorts of things, that he's wrong. In fact, I'm certain that he thinks that I'm being unreasonable.

Guys - my gf and I work like crazy people and are hardly ever home anyway; we just don't have the time and patience for this nonsense.

Having said all that, next time he says something along these lines I think I'll just need to try to explain to him the best I can that his requests are making life very difficult for my gf and I.

The good news is that come May, Jill will be away for 6 weeks and Jack will then be joining her for a 2-3 week holiday. So really, my gf and I only have to survive until May.

We'll look for a new apartment in June and move into it in July.

However, I am leaving for a two-week holiday with another friend tomorrow and am leaving my gf behind as she has too much work to do (including university essay submissions) and couldn't come with us. I feel terrible leaving her by herself - if (or more likely when...) Jack says something to her, she'll have nobody to talk to (I'll be in a 8+hr timezone so may not always be available). Poor gf. If this happens, I might just lose my cool with him...

nikkibikki

Just walk out of the room everytime he comes out with his ridiculousness!

intheclouds

Snatchy wrote: »

For example: the day before yesterday, he was at the sink and had asked if I had been washing the dishes. After I answered in the affirmative, he said "can you make sure you leave the food catcher back inside the sink-hole because sometimes food gets caught and there is a rotten smell from the sink". My response was: "Jack, I had removed to make sure the sink-hole was clean and I don't think there is any smell in any event". His response was (in a semi-jokey but semi-serious tone): "It's basic hygiene FFS"!

"It's a bloody food-catcher in a sink - SO WHAT IF IT'S NOT IN THE SINK HOLE FROM TIME TO TIME?!!!". He then walked off in a sulk.

Actually I think you do sound a bit unreasonable there.

You could have just said "OK" when he asked you to leave the thing back in the sink hole instead of being argumentative about it. Why not just leave the thing back in where its supposed to be? Its not an attack if someone asks you to do something so simple.

OK = Peaceful end to conversation, no one in a sulk, no argument.

keane2097

You both sound unreasonable tbh, you can just accede to a sensible request the odd time like.

edit: what intheclouds said

Snatchy

OP here.

Guys, just to put the food-catcher comment into context so you have full information:

- two days prior to the incident described in my last post, I was washing the dishes when Jack comes over and the following conversation ensues:

JACK: Oh actually, I have a question, is it you who takes the food-catcher out of the sink?

ME: I'm not really sure - don't pay too much attention to whether it's in or out. As you can see, it is in now. It's definitely not my gf as she normally uses the dishwasher for everything [aside: Jack had previously said to my gf on two occasions that she shouldn't put pans and pots in the dishwasher because they get ruined; keep in mind that they are my pots and pans]. I do make sure that the sink is clean after using it though.

JACK: It's just that there was a smell coming from the sink when I came home after the Christmas break so you should just leave it in at all times.

ME: well, my gf and I had been living here over the Christmas break and hadn't noticed a smell. Anyway, I don't think I take and leave it out of the sink-hole intentionally in any event.

JACK: well (jokingly) maybe I should install a camera to see who does it.

When he brought up the food-catcher issue for the second time in three days is when I got p*ssed off.

intheclouds

Again - you seem to go straight into defensive/argumentative mode when asked something simple.

Why argue back that you didnt notice a smell? If he did then he did and so what if you didnt?

You are only being asked to be mindful of leaving it back where its supposed to be.

From his perspective he had only talked to you about the thing 2 days earlier and then there it was, not where it was supposed to be again.

It could be that you are annoying to live with. Im not saying that Jack isnt pedantic, but given the 2 conversations you have posted, I think that you are not without fault either.

Snatchy

intheclouds wrote: »

Again - you seem to go straight into defensive/argumentative mode when asked something simple.

Why argue back that you didnt notice a smell? If he did then he did and so what if you didnt?

You are only being asked to be mindful of leaving it back where its supposed to be.

From his perspective he had only talked to you about the thing 2 days earlier and then there it was, not where it was supposed to be again.

It could be that you are annoying to live with. Im not saying that Jack isnt pedantic, but given the 2 conversations you have posted, I think that you are not without fault either.

Again, to give more context, the food-catcher point is on the tail end of numerous other requests; when those conversation were had, I had reached the stage when I just wanted to tell him to F-OFF and had been irritated for quite some time.

A food-catcher is not a big deal to me. I simply don't care where it is left. The sink is clean and in my opinion, it doesn't smell. It's very irritating to be "told" about a food-catcher by your peer, old friend and housemate two times in three days. It is not a big deal. Especially, when within the last two weeks: (i) he has complained to me behind my gf's back that she keeps her desk in our common study room untidy (note that this is her working/study desk; J&J have their own desk in the same room); (ii) has asked us not to use our clothes horse and to buy a new one and (iii) has again pointed out that we are too noisy in the mornings. It's too much. I have a reason to be irritated in my opinion.

Not difficult to live with - I have had seven different house/flat-shares in the past and have never had any issues.

intheclouds

Snatchy wrote: »

Not difficult to live with - I have had seven different house/flat-shares in the past and have never had any issues.

Maybe the other house shares were just easier going? Its not really relevant, you are currently in a situation where someone is complaining about your behaviour so its that situation that needs addressing, not your past history of sharing.

The point is, if jack is a bit pedantic, you are not really facilitating yourself (or him) by responding the way you have posted.

A simple "Alright, yeah" in response to the most recent food catcher conversation would have closed the conversation, prevented a sulk, prevented you being more irritated.......

You get more out of people with sugar than you do with vinegar.

Sure, its irritating you to live with him. And its clearly irritating him to live with you. Irritation for you could be minimised by your own response to him. So do yourself a favour and dont sweat the small stuff. Irritation for him could be minimised by you just doing small things like putting the food catcher back where its supposed to be. So in fact, you have the power to make things a bit better for everyone - so why not do it~?

When I read your first post I wondered why you didnt just say "oh sure, sorry about that" and carry on when he said youd woken him up that morning.

Im saying all the above in the context that you ARE moving out either in August or sooner. Just make life easier for yourself by not being argumentative about small stuff between now and move out day.

Rubberchikken

begin planning to move as soon as you can.
tbh Jack saounds like a pain.

i realise you're friends with him, but the things he is going on about sound petty and in time, would peck away at your head. and definitely mine:)

maybe tell him you're organising your leaving day for the summer and he may relax just a bit.

Snatchy

Thanks intheclouds - your advice is very sensible. However to implement it in practice might require some mental retraining. For better or worse, I spend most of my waking hours working in a "high-powered" job where I normally delegate to and supervise other people in a legal team - nobody really tells me what to do when I am not at home and hasn't done so in several years. It is then hard to come home and just say "ok" to continuous and very irritating requests from your flatmate when you just want to relax after another hectic day at work. But as you say, perhaps it would be worth the effort to at least try ... I had already done this on one occassion. When he asked us not to use our clothes horse and to buy a new one, as irritated as I was I calmly told him that we would just dry our clothes in our bedroom going forward (and not in the spare room). Maybe I should have told him that we will buy big yellow cones to place around the clothes horse so he knows not to trip over it

Thanks for the advice again.

S

Thargor

Why is the advice always to move out on this board? Every single issue in every thread the OP is told to find a new place, you'd think if someone is posting in a forum called Accommodation and Property they'd have an idea what things are like out there atm.

He sounds like a high strung pr1ck OP, maybe start having showers in the morning and let him see how considerate you're being, if he repeats himself again tell him you're an adult and you don't need multiple explanations of any issue.

blindsider

Get your local newspaper (or similar). Open the Property Available section.

Mark a few properties with a red marker. Leave the paper on the kitchen table.

When he asks you about it, say that you and your GF are probably going to find your own place. You don't need to explain why.

nikkibikki

intheclouds wrote:

A simple "Alright, yeah" in response to the most recent food catcher conversation would have closed the conversation, prevented a sulk, prevented you being more irritated.......

Or "Yes, Mammy!"

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you did a survey among all workers (not students!) then you might get a big surprise! Most office workers are due in at 8:30 or perhaps 9. Sleeping until 8:30 is for weekends only.

It depends as much on how far people commute as much as what time they start work to be honest. That said a lot of skilled workers nowadays have very flexible hours particularly those in IT or scientific fields. If you were in my work place ah 8:55 (around 600 people work there) there is a good chance you would be turning on the lights, it's near 10am before the place starts to fill up and knowing people working in similar highly skilled work places the story is the same. On the other hand we would often be still working when most people are gone home though.

In any case if I get up at 8:30 or even a little later I can be in for 9 or just after it. I don't waste time around the house in the morning up, dress and out the door in 10 mins or less and less than 20 mins walk to work.

As for weekends I'm rarely up before 11am and many Saturday being up to see some of the first half of the 12:45pm kick off is about as early as I'm seen.

Wanderer78

move on op! lifes too short. best of luck with it

Graces7

Snatchy wrote: »

Again, to give more context, the food-catcher point is on the tail end of numerous other requests; when those conversation were had, I had reached the stage when I just wanted to tell him to F-OFF and had been irritated for quite some time.

A food-catcher is not a big deal to me. I simply don't care where it is left. The sink is clean and in my opinion, it doesn't smell. It's very irritating to be "told" about a food-catcher by your peer, old friend and housemate two times in three days. It is not a big deal. Especially, when within the last two weeks: (i) he has complained to me behind my gf's back that she keeps her desk in our common study room untidy (note that this is her working/study desk; J&J have their own desk in the same room); (ii) has asked us not to use our clothes horse and to buy a new one and (iii) has again pointed out that we are too noisy in the mornings. It's too much. I have a reason to be irritated in my opinion.

Not difficult to live with - I have had seven different house/flat-shares in the past and have never had any issues.

Last straw syndrome.. He has been at you so many times you are on high alert and rightly so. Nitpicking unhappy man is jack...Start counting the days

Graces7

Thargor wrote: »

Why is the advice always to move out on this board? Every single issue in every thread the OP is told to find a new place, you'd think if someone is posting in a forum called Accommodation and Property they'd have an idea what things are like out there atm.

He sounds like a high strung pr1ck OP, maybe start having showers in the morning and let him see how considerate you're being, if he repeats himself again tell him you're an adult and you don't need multiple explanations of any issue.

Annoys me too but there are situations where it really is the only thing to do. Been there too many times and it can become a war zone IN YOUR HOME. The clothes horse issue is the most ridiculous thing I have read in a long time.. you are doing well not to deck him.. you need peace in your home after work.