Race wheels and bike brand compatibility

MalDoc

Hi All,

Is this something to consider when looking at wheels?

As in, Felt bike, only compatible with Reynolds, etc....

Is there anything else to consider?

I have ~10 gears on my back wheel buy the same for new wheels.

Thanks.

griffin100

It's not a question of bike and wheel brand comparability. It's all about the hub type. Check if your freehub is shimano or campag - it'll more than likely be shimano - and this is where the comparability lies. Any brand of wheel with the right hub will fit your bikes running gear.

You can swap your old cassette onto your new wheel; or you can buy a new cassette. If buying a new cassette make sure it has the same number of rings as the old one so there will be no issues in putting the new set up on the bike. As cassettes have a finite life a new one with new wheels is a good idea. Its also a good opportunity to make sure you have a cassette range that suits your needs.

MalDoc

griffin100 wrote: »

It's not a question of bike and wheel brand comparability. It's all about the hub type. Check if your freehub is shimano or campag - it'll more than likely be shimano - and this is where the comparability lies. Any brand of wheel with the right hub will fit your bikes running gear.

You can swap your old cassette onto your new wheel; or you can buy a new cassette. If buying a new cassette make sure it has the same number of rings as the old one so there will be no issues in putting the new set up on the bike. As cassettes have a finite life a new one with new wheels is a good idea. Its also a good opportunity to make sure you have a cassette range that suits your needs.

Thank you very much. Was looking at wheels earlier and was proper frazzled

Cheers!

MalDoc

griffin100 wrote: »

It's not a question of bike and wheel brand comparability. It's all about the hub type. Check if your freehub is shimano or campag - it'll more than likely be shimano - and this is where the comparability lies. Any brand of wheel with the right hub will fit your bikes running gear.

You can swap your old cassette onto your new wheel; or you can buy a new cassette. If buying a new cassette make sure it has the same number of rings as the old one so there will be no issues in putting the new set up on the bike. As cassettes have a finite life a new one with new wheels is a good idea. Its also a good opportunity to make sure you have a cassette range that suits your needs.

I'll probably have a few more questions for you tomorrow if that's alright.

This is actually very technical.

griffin100

My knowledge is pretty basic but fire away (there are more experienced bike people than me here!!)

MalDoc

griffin100 wrote: »

My knowledge is pretty basic but fire away (there are more experienced bike people than me here!!)

Right so,

I have a "Shimano 11-25T cassette" - I take this to mean, Shimano Hub, 11 rings, 25 teeth per ring?

The groupset is Shimano as well it seems.

What wheels would this have you looking at?

cjt156

11-25 corresponds to the number of teeth on the smallest and largest sprocket respectively.
So 11 on the small one; 25 on the big.

joey100

The 11-25 means you have a cassette that has a range between 11-25. What you need to find out is how many sprockets there are on the cassette. Count how many rings are on the cassette, not the teeth on the rings but the individual rings. Most newer bikes would have 10 or 11, this will tell you if your bike is 10 speed (if there is 10 rings) or 11 speed (if there is eleven rings). If it's an older bike it may be 8 or 9 speed. Do you have a link to the exact bike you bought??

pgibbo

Just a some things to keep in mind when buying wheels:

SRAM/Shimano vs Campag
What speed the wheel is for and what your bike is (9, 10 or 11)
If you have a TT bike with integrated brakes ensure the wheel will fit (only an issue for wider wheels like Flo and some others)
Braking surface on the wheels - if it's carbon you need different brake pads

griffin100

These links might help explain some of the terminology:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/buyers-guide-to-road-bike-groupsets-41610/

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/videos/cycling-tech/road-bike-groupsets-buyers-guide

Re. what wheels to buy, that's a very wide question It all comes down to how much you are willing to spend and what type of riding / racing you do. There are hundreds of options.

peter kern

another thing to consider is that training wheel and racing wheel have a simialr rim width if you like simple wheel swaps ( especially for hidden rear breaks thats important.

also important to buy the right chain for the cassette you use
ie a 9 speed cassette does not worl well with a 10 speed chain ( it works but its annoying )

pgibbo wrote: »

Just a some things to keep in mind when buying wheels:

SRAM/Shimano vs Campag
What speed the wheel is for and what your bike is (9, 10 or 11)
If you have a TT bike with integrated brakes ensure the wheel will fit (only an issue for wider wheels like Flo and some others)
Braking surface on the wheels - if it's carbon you need different brake pads

MalDoc

Cheers lads, I think my head just exploded.

I'll have to think about this.

sconhome

I may be overstepping the mark.

Have you the technical ability to change cassettes without making a mess of it or dropping a spacer ring? If not I wouldn't be too worried about new race wheels as changing over could be the end of your race before you even start.

pgibbo

sconhome wrote: »

I may be overstepping the mark.

Have you the technical ability to change cassettes without making a mess of it or dropping a spacer ring? If not I wouldn't be too worried about new race wheels as changing over could be the end of your race before you even start.

I think something has been lost on me here? What has swapping wheels got to do with changing a cassette? If both sets of wheels have the same or similar gearing then there's no need to be able to change a cassette. You just swap the wheels. Or did I miss something?

sconhome

Talking about moving cassette from one wheel to the other. Unless a full wheel and cassette set-up is bought it will need to be done.

tunney

pgibbo wrote: »

I think something has been lost on me here? What has swapping wheels got to do with changing a cassette? If both sets of wheels have the same or similar gearing then there's no need to be able to change a cassette. You just swap the wheels. Or did I miss something?

You don't just swap wheels. If you train on a chain and a cassette they get worn in tandem. If you mismatch the level of wear significantly you get an situation where the chain and cassette will not longer "gel" and you get chain suck, noise, increased friction meaning more losses to the drivetrain and wastage.

Its even worse if the bike the race wheels are being used on is a racing and training bike.

MalDoc

sconhome wrote: »

I may be overstepping the mark.

Have you the technical ability to change cassettes without making a mess of it or dropping a spacer ring? If not I wouldn't be too worried about new race wheels as changing over could be the end of your race before you even start.

Something like this is what I wanted to avoid as it would be very tedious.

So, current plan is:

Race wheels the same width, same skewer type.
Same braking surface.
Same cassette attached to both.
As straight forward a swap as possible.

sconhome

See Tunney post above ^^ re wear on the chain and cassette before you decide anything.

griffin100

The simplest solution is to buy a race day bike for racing on with a nice set of wheels, and keep the current bike as your trainer. You can never have too many bikes

MalDoc

griffin100 wrote: »

The simplest solution is to buy a race day bike for racing on with a nice set of wheels, and keep the current bike as your trainer. You can never have too many bikes

It's looking like that

pgibbo

tunney wrote: »

You don't just swap wheels. If you train on a chain and a cassette they get worn in tandem. If you mismatch the level of wear significantly you get an situation where the chain and cassette will not longer "gel" and you get chain suck, noise, increased friction meaning more losses to the drivetrain and wastage.

Its even worse if the bike the race wheels are being used on is a racing and training bike.

If you monitor chain wear and stretch with one of the tools how much of an issue is this if you just swap wheels in for race day? What's the cost in real terms - say over 180km?

tunney

pgibbo wrote: »

If you monitor chain wear and stretch with one of the tools how much of an issue is this if you just swap wheels in for race day? What's the cost in real terms - say over 180km?

I cannot quantify exactly but I would not do it.

Losses to drive train are from 2-3 to 6-7% of power generated, good drivetrain setup to bad.

A powertab (or neo/computrainer) and a SRM/P2M (note not stages) would show you your losses and then you could quantify improvements.

Say was an extra 4% for an inefficient drivetrain. 220s produced, 210 hits the rear wheel.... What would you do for 10 watts?

mirrormatrix

tunney wrote: »

You don't just swap wheels. If you train on a chain and a cassette they get worn in tandem. If you mismatch the level of wear significantly you get an situation where the chain and cassette will not longer "gel" and you get chain suck, noise, increased friction meaning more losses to the drivetrain and wastage.

Its even worse if the bike the race wheels are being used on is a racing and training bike.

Not sure I fully agree with this. I mean, I agree that chain and cassette wear in tandem to a certain extent, but I don't think that swapping out wheels while using the same chain will have any negative impact.

For example, typically you change the chain 2-3 times per cassette change as the chain stretches faster than the cassette wears out. When doing this, (I don't think!) changing the chain while keeping the same cassette increases the chance of slippage or loss in power.

Am open to being proven wrong on this however..

tunney

mirrormatrix wrote: »

Not sure I fully agree with this. I mean, I agree that chain and cassette wear in tandem to a certain extent, but I don't think that swapping out wheels while using the same chain will have any negative impact.

For example, typically you change the chain 2-3 times per cassette change as the chain stretches faster than the cassette wears out. When doing this, (I don't think!) changing the chain while keeping the same cassette increases the chance of slippage or loss in power.

Am open to being proven wrong on this however..

Fair enough, whatever you reckon.

peter kern

pgibbo wrote: »

If you monitor chain wear and stretch with one of the tools how much of an issue is this if you just swap wheels in for race day? What's the cost in real terms - say over 180km?

if the chain is not worn out and well cleaned very little.
at the same time before an A race i would put on a new chain
and after some time a race cassette becomes a training cassette
and I ride a 55 chainring so i use most of the time gears that use more teath ( the 11 and 12 tooh wear out more quickly if you use them often and also give the chain a bit more stress.
and of coruse out of 9 gear chain you get more milage than out of 10 and 11
also you tend to get a git bit more out of shimano chain and casstte than sram chain (sram is lighter )

MalDoc

Kind of feel like I've opened a can of worms here but some really great stuff for a novice like myself to digest.

Ideal world, separate bike and wheels for race day but I just can't justify that sort of purchase. I could decide after a bad race this year that I'm done as I don't think I've ever put as much effort into a sport before and have form for getting bored and quitting.

I'm going to opt for a new chain, wheels and tyres for my A race.

I've a Felt B12, what wheels would you buy if in my position?

I would like to stick with an aluminum braking surface too as I think I would seriously injure myself if I had carbon.

Thanks,

joey100

What's your budget? How is your bike handling?

MalDoc

joey100 wrote: »

What's your budget? How is your bike handling?

Hi Joey, around 1500. Dry roads quite good. Brutal when it rains, I lose all nerve on corners.

joey100

That's decent budget, should be able to get a good set of wheels for it. Only asking about bike handling because the better your bike handling the deeper you can go on the front, the front is usually more twitchy in wind. I wouldn't be the best bike handler or have the best confidence on the bike so I stick to a 40mm in the front and find it grand.

Swiss side wheels seem to do well in testing and have an aluminium braking surface.

http://www.swissside.com/shop/category/hadron-collection/

Can mix and match the wheels too, so could get a 625 in the front and a 800+ in the back. Ship from the EU too so no customs charges.

Maybe a set of zipp 60's, use older zipp technologies but have the aluminium braking rim and zipps would generally be well regarded wheels.


Other wheels in that budget may be FLO wheels, come direct from America so customs and duty can rise the price, Fast forward wheels, no experience with these wheels, or Mavic, again no experience with their deeper wheels.

Have you figured out what speed your bike is? Just make sure what ever wheels you order are compatible with the speed of your bike.

MalDoc

joey100 wrote: »

That's decent budget, should be able to get a good set of wheels for it. Only asking about bike handling because the better your bike handling the deeper you can go on the front, the front is usually more twitchy in wind. I wouldn't be the best bike handler or have the best confidence on the bike so I stick to a 40mm in the front and find it grand.

Swiss side wheels seem to do well in testing and have an aluminium braking surface.

http://www.swissside.com/shop/category/hadron-collection/

Can mix and match the wheels too, so could get a 625 in the front and a 800+ in the back. Ship from the EU too so no customs charges.

Maybe a set of zipp 60's, use older zipp technologies but have the aluminium braking rim and zipps would generally be well regarded wheels.


Other wheels in that budget may be FLO wheels, come direct from America so customs and duty can rise the price, Fast forward wheels, no experience with these wheels, or Mavic, again no experience with their deeper wheels.

Have you figured out what speed your bike is? Just make sure what ever wheels you order are compatible with the speed of your bike.

They sound like a serious set of wheels. Can't say I've heard of that brand before.

I'll go with the 625 and 800+ as you suggested.

I've selected, shimano for hub type.

10 speed Shimano compatible freehub body & light weight Felt quick release....

joey100

They are shimano 8,9,10,11 speed compatabile so your bike will be covered by them. Google them first to read a few reviews and see what you think, others might have suggestions too on other suitable wheels.