General MMA Chat/News mk2

Mellor

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

She weighed in at 141.45, which is rounded down to 141. Which is what they announced her weight as. It's a catch weight fight so only the UFC could hold accountable for the missed lb, and they obviously didn't care.

141.45 is rounded to 141.5 not 141.0, (the always rounding down rule was specific to one of the Canadian commissions.)
I'm aware there is no 1lb grace, I was saying she was 1.5lbs over.

It's only on the UFC because it's a catchweight. The commission still have a duty of care to the other fighter. It's no different from any other fight in that regard. Reports are that she was 170lbs in the cage. That's dangerous, and its on her more than anyone.

Depp wrote: »

no way shes ever making 135, pointless having her kill herself to get to 140 and unfair on the 135 girls theyre expecting to fight her, either start an actual 145 division or leave her in invicta

The deal was that she'd cut to 140, then cut to 135. That's perfectly reasonable imo.
She had a hard enough cut to 145 at that stage, so it's was obviously implied that that she'd have to lose weight to complete the above. Which she isn't doing, or trying to do. She wants to make the cut to 135/140 from her current size of 170. That's ridiculous. And is completely her choice.
I don't get why fighters like Hendricks, Gastlum, Rumble got slated for coming into camps too big and She gets treated as if its outside her control.

Mellor

Mellor wrote: »

141.45 is rounded to 141.5 not 141.0, (the always rounding down rule was specific to one of the Canadian commissions.)
I'm aware there is no 1lb grace, I was saying she was 1.5lbs over.

It's only on the UFC because it's a catchweight. The commission still have a duty of care to the other fighter. It's no different from any other fight in that regard. Reports are that she was 170lbs in the cage. That's dangerous, and its on her more than anyone.


The deal was that she'd cut to 140, then cut to 135. That's perfectly reasonable imo.
She had a hard enough cut to 145 at that stage, so it's was obviously implied that that she'd have to lose weight to complete the above. Which she isn't doing, or trying to do. She wants to make the cut to 135/140 from her current size of 170. That's ridiculous. And is completely her choice.
I don't get why fighters like Hendricks, Gastlum, Rumble got slated for coming into camps too big and She gets treated as if its outside her control.

I'd say it's because they have a choice to fight at a higher weight class whereas Cyborg doesn't yet so some sympathy gets thrown her way.

Also that vlog series of her cutting weight seems to have gotten a lot of sympathy because people actually get to see the process.

Subcomandante Marcos

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say it's because they have a choice to fight at a higher weight class whereas Cyborg doesn't yet so some sympathy gets thrown her way.

Also that vlog series of her cutting weight seems to have gotten a lot of sympathy because people actually get to see the process.

Also, they get fat and then have problems making weight because their bodies cant shed the fat.

She's in shape 365 days of the year but being asked to make stupid cuts for no reason.

shrapnel222

Mellor wrote: »

I don't get why fighters like Hendricks, Gastlum, Rumble got slated for coming into camps too big and She gets treated as if its outside her control.

These guys just get fat, whereas she is always super ripped and too muscular. They are doing everything they can to get her in a proper division, and are working down to 135, but as the catch weight fight suggested, it may be impossible to go lower. More than likely, she'll never fight at 135 in the UFC

Swashbuckler

shrapnel222 wrote:

These guys just get fat, whereas she is always super ripped and too muscular. They are doing everything they can to get her in a proper division, and are working down to 135, but as the catch weight fight suggested, it may be impossible to go lower. More than likely, she'll never fight at 135 in the UFC

If she just shed some of that muscle mass she would make 135 easy but she refuses to do so.

Porthallian

Swashbuckler wrote: »

shrapnel222 wrote:

These guys just get fat, whereas she is always super ripped and too muscular. They are doing everything they can to get her in a proper division, and are working down to 135, but as the catch weight fight suggested, it may be impossible to go lower. More than likely, she'll never fight at 135 in the UFC

If she just shed some of that muscle mass she would make 135 easy but she refuses to do so.

You cant expect her to flippantly just shed muscle mass. It doesn't work that way, she has a huge frame. I cant see her making 135.
It would be a long process aswell, not like she's just going to shed 20% of her body weight in a short amount of time.
I think it's up to the UFC to make a new weight class.

Swashbuckler

Porthallian wrote:

You cant expect her to flippantly just shed muscle mass. It doesn't work that way, she has a huge frame. I cant see her making 135. It would be a long process aswell, not like she's just going to shed 20% of her body weight in a short amount of time. I think it's up to the UFC to make a new weight class.

Well firstly off I don't think it's wise creating a division just for Cyborg. Strong possibility of ending up with a very weak division.

The reality is she can cut from 170 to 140. It's fairly plausible she could easily make 135 by starting from a lower point no?

Depp

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Well firstly off I don't think it's wise creating a division just for Cyborg. Strong possibility of ending up with a very weak division.

The reality is she can cut from 170 to 140. It's fairly plausible she could easily make 135 by starting from a lower point no?

she could probably do it from a lower point aaite but the problem is she has basically no body fat to shed healthily, her only option is to shed muscle mass and that would be fairly difficult to do quickly, its not just stop lifting and it dissapears in a month or two

Swashbuckler

Depp wrote:

she could probably do it from a lower point aaite but the problem is she has basically no body fat to shed healthily, her only option is to shed muscle mass and that would be fairly difficult to do quickly, its not just stop lifting and it dissapears in a month or two

But why not start the process. By doing that it would open up the entire 135lb UFC division to her. Otherwise she's fighting nobody's at Invincta and killing herself for catchweight bouts.

Mellor

shrapnel222 wrote: »

These guys just get fat, whereas she is always super ripped and too muscular. They are doing everything they can to get her in a proper division, and are working down to 135, but as the catch weight fight suggested, it may be impossible to go lower. More than likely, she'll never fight at 135 in the UFC

It's not easy to stay big and lean. It's not something that happens accidentally. You have to fuel that mass. On top of all the training. That's not to mention "other" considerations.

They aren't doing everything they can. Far from it imo. George Lockhart has said she doesn't want to lose muscle because she'll lose power.
Either she fights at 145, or she loses muscle and power and fights st 135.
She can't be the same fighter at both weights.

Porthallian wrote: »

You cant expect her to flippantly just shed muscle mass. It doesn't work that way, she has a huge frame. I cant see her making 135.
It would be a long process aswell, not like she's just going to shed 20% of her body weight in a short amount of time.
I think it's up to the UFC to make a new weight class.

20% of her body weight? Where are you getting that. That's 34lbs. She needs to lose maybe 5% only. At which point she have an much easier cut (to 135lbs) than last week.

It doesn't have to be fast. She could lose 1lb per month and weigh in at 135 for her next fight.

Mellor

Depp wrote: »

she could probably do it from a lower point aaite but the problem is she has basically no body fat to shed healthily, her only option is to shed muscle mass and that would be fairly difficult to do quickly, its not just stop lifting and it dissapears in a month or two

Why do you think it would be difficult?

She wouldn't need to stop lifting.
Basic laws of energy still apply. Is you burns more energy than she eat the body makes up the difference. The leaner you are, the less fat available for energy. Which means muscle catabolism.

The struggle is keeping muscle when you are lean. Not losing it

Porthallian

Mellor wrote: »

shrapnel222 wrote: »

These guys just get fat, whereas she is always super ripped and too muscular. They are doing everything they can to get her in a proper division, and are working down to 135, but as the catch weight fight suggested, it may be impossible to go lower. More than likely, she'll never fight at 135 in the UFC

It's not easy to stay big and lean. It's not something that happens accidentally. You have to fuel that mass. On top of all the training. That's not to mention "other" considerations.

They aren't doing everything they can. Far from it imo. George Lockhart has said she doesn't want to lose muscle because she'll lose power.
Either she fights at 145, or she loses muscle and power and fights st 135.
She can't be the same fighter at both weights.

Porthallian wrote: »

You cant expect her to flippantly just shed muscle mass. It doesn't work that way, she has a huge frame. I cant see her making 135.
It would be a long process aswell, not like she's just going to shed 20% of her body weight in a short amount of time.
I think it's up to the UFC to make a new weight class.

20% of her body weight? Where are you getting that. That's 34lbs. She needs to lose maybe 5% only. At which point she have an much easier cut (to 135lbs) than last week.

It doesn't have to be fast. She could lose 1lb per month and weigh in at 135 for her next fight.

What weight do you think she walks around at?

Porthallian

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Porthallian wrote:

You cant expect her to flippantly just shed muscle mass. It doesn't work that way, she has a huge frame. I cant see her making 135. It would be a long process aswell, not like she's just going to shed 20% of her body weight in a short amount of time. I think it's up to the UFC to make a new weight class.

Well firstly off I don't think it's wise creating a division just for Cyborg. Strong possibility of ending up with a very weak division.

The reality is she can cut from 170 to 140. It's fairly plausible she could easily make 135 by starting from a lower point no?

Probably would be a weak division to start out with, but it's not like there would be no women lining up to fight at that weight. It isn't like Gabi Garica 205lb level.
I think they could build it like they did with SW, by doing a Women's FW season of TUF.

They could find 145 women, also there are a few who struggle to cut to 135 as it is. I don't think a 145 womens division is that unrealistic.
You could argue that the 125, 135, and 145 Men's divisions were very weak to start off with. 125 is still weak IMO.
I'd welcome a new womens division.

shrapnel222

Mellor wrote: »

They aren't doing everything they can. Far from it imo. George Lockhart has said she doesn't want to lose muscle because she'll lose power.
Either she fights at 145, or she loses muscle and power and fights st 135.
She can't be the same fighter at both weights.

i meant in the way they are putting fights for her at a catchweight so she can fight in the UFC

Porthallian wrote: »

What weight do you think she walks around at?

someone mentioned in this thread or another that on fightnight she was 170, so you could easily add 5-10 more onto that for walk around i'd assume (complete guess btw)

Subcomandante Marcos

shrapnel222 wrote: »

i meant in the way they are putting fights for her at a catchweight so she can fight in the UFC



someone mentioned in this thread or another that on fightnight she was 170, so you could easily add 5-10 more onto that for walk around i'd assume (complete guess btw)

The weight the media throws around for people on fight night is almost always total nonsense.

Mellor

Porthallian wrote: »

[
What weight do you think she walks around at?

They (George Lockhart maybe) said she cut from 165 at the weekend.
Somebody else claimed she was 170 in the cage.

Somewhere between 165-170 sounds about right in that case.

Porthallian

Mellor wrote: »

Porthallian wrote: »

[
What weight do you think she walks around at?

They (George Lockhart maybe) said she cut from 165 at the weekend.
Somebody else claimed she was 170 in the cage.

Somewhere between 165-170 sounds about right in that case.

Yeah so 35lbs is about 20% of her body weight which is insane!

I know if she lost muscle mass and shredded herself down to a normal walk around weight of about 155 it would be a more realistic weight cut on fight week but I cant see her doing that.

It's altering your whole body and it takes time. Imagine somebody like Hendricks who struggled to make 170 and suggesting he lost muscle mass to make 155.

Lukker-

They should just make a 145 division. There are plenty of girls who already struggle to make the weight who could move up, and it would fill up over time. Plenty of BJJ and Kickboxing talent that would make the switch, there has been no incentive for them to do so yet.

When Cyborg was with Tito Ortiz a few years ago, she was only 160 then and she still couldn't make 135. Now she's 175 outside of camp, it's not happening. The catchweights are pointless, if they want to persist let her fight one off fights at 145.

The UFC created the 135 division for Ronda, I don't see why Cyborg isn't as deserving IMO.

brinty

Lukker- wrote:

The UFC created the 135 division for Ronda, I don't see why Cyborg isn't as deserving IMO.

There was a 135 division with rousey,Tate, carano etc there when they brought women's fights into UFC

Rousey got no special treatment on weight classes

XsApollo

Just looked at her cutting weight on that documentary on youtube.
Thats some serious sh1t there, pretty sick.

Mellor

Porthallian wrote: »

Yeah so 35lbs is about 20% of her body weight which is insane!

She doesn't need to walk around at 135 to fight at 135.
I presume you know that, so not sure why you are saying she'd need to shed 20% worth of muscle.

She's made 140 from what she is currently. Logically if she had c.5lbs less lean mass, the cut to 135 would be just as difficult. I'm suggesting dropping 8-9lbs (5%). Making it a more routine cut to 135lbs. That's what the long term plan was. She's not doing it, which is fine, it's her choice.
Either she drops to 135lbs, or she chooses to stays at 145lbs. Killing herself for catchweight is nonsense.

It's altering your whole body and it takes time. Imagine somebody like Hendricks who struggled to make 170 and suggesting he lost muscle mass to make 155.

Hendricks isn't remotely lean. Cybortg is ripped, and female.
If you think their situations are similar then you've missed the point people are making.

finglashoop

I presume its more lucrative to fight at 140 even bigger money at 135. So its muscle or money. I think mellor is right. It's one or the other

JoeyJJ

Simple change 135 to 140 and 115 to 120.

EagererBeaver

JoeyJJ wrote: »

Simple change 135 to 140 and 115 to 120.

Which is fair on all the other 135 fighters because...?

Dtp1979

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Which is fair on all the other 135 fighters because...?

......they can eat more and have easier cuts

JoeyJJ

Who cares about fair, if UFC can make more money out a "small inconvenience" why not. I certainly would be thinking of it "if" they see Cyborg as a star.

EagererBeaver

JoeyJJ wrote: »

Who cares about fair, if UFC can make more money out a "small inconvenience" why not. I certainly would be thinking of it "if" they see Cyborg as a star.

You think being asked to come in five pounds above their regular fighting weight so cyborg can batter then is a "small inconvenience"? Sounds logical. When will McGregor be fighting for the welter and middle belts?

Why stop at 140? Why not just say 150 and not have them bother to cut weight at all?

Why not tell Rousey to **** up and just fight her at 145 rather than have all this nonsense the last while?

There are weight classes for a reason. If 95% of fighters find 135a good weight for them, why would they agree to change things to suit the 5% who don't?

shrapnel222

EagererBeaver wrote: »

You think being asked to come in five pounds above their regular fighting weight so cyborg can batter then is a "small inconvenience"? Sounds logical. When will McGregor be fighting for the welter and middle belts?

Why stop at 140? Why not just say 150 and not have them bother to cut weight at all?

Why not tell Rousey to **** up and just fight her at 145 rather than have all this nonsense the last while?

There are weight classes for a reason. If 95% of fighters find 135a good weight for them, why would they agree to change things to suit the 5% who don't?

everyone wanted Cyborg in the UFC because Rowsey was such a dominant force, and when both in their prime Cyborg-Rowsey was such an obvious massive draw, and Rowsey would have been destroyed.

Now, getting her in the UFC is just a case of trying to get the best female fighter on the planet in the biggest organisation, but there no longer is any real prize at the end.

JoeyJJ

The text in " " is obviously not my point of view I am playing devils advocate. Who said fighters needed to agree to anything. The UFC isn't a CO-OP and there are no unions yet. Cyborg isn't making 135 anytime soon, I am just suggesting there is another way to skin a cat. A deeply unpopular one the would cause outrage however not impossible for the organisation to do.

smilerf

Mods rename this thread Discussing Cyborgs feckin weight