General MMA Chat/News mk2

Paully D

nomadchocolate wrote: »

David Meltzer says that Joe Silva and Sholler won't be the last to leave. The new owners want their own people in but worryingly they are also only interested in money fights.

So people that are unhappy with how the UFC have acted recently are going to be more unhappy.

Cutting off the nose to spite the face rings to mind

Silva was always very much of the opinion that you fight at your weight class and he had no time at all for so called super fights. No surprise to see him go given recent events and the new ownership.

Swashbuckler

Is it really that bad the way things have gone? I guess in terms of purity of the sport it is but you can't say it's not entertaining.

nomadchocolate

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Is it really that bad the way things have gone? I guess in terms of purity of the sport it is but you can't say it's not entertaining.

But stars only become stars through dominating divisions for the most part, no? (McGregor the exception)

So won't you run out of money fights relatively quickly?

TimRiggins

nomadchocolate wrote: »

But stars only become stars through dominating divisions for the most part, no? (McGregor the exception)

So won't you run out of money fights relatively quickly?

Nate Diaz is one of the biggest stars in the UFC now and hasn't dominated his division. Lots of people have dominated divisions and do awful PPV numbers too, But yeah, it certainly helps.

Swashbuckler

nomadchocolate wrote:

But stars only become stars through dominating divisions for the most part, no? (McGregor the exception)

Yeah I get what you're saying - Ronda, Jon Jones etc. But seeing more superfights would be great. I have to say I love the champ v champ idea. Gsp v silva, Jones v Cain are examples of fights we missed out on as fans.

hendo111

The rankings mean nothing anyways they need an overhauling,thats one of my biggest problems with the current state of the UFC.

Lukker-

The rankings have always been used to push whatever narrative the UFC is selling at the time.

wonderfullife

Ari Emmanuel isn't in the business of long-haul 25-year investments. They'll be looking for immediate returns.

The Ali Act still looms over them, as does a potential fighter union, as does a class-action lawsuit.

All 3 of those things could potentially be huge negatives to the company and make that $4.2 billion look like the biggest waste of money ever.

So it's imperative to them that Conor and Ronda fight 3 times a year each, while they are still a) winning b) relevant.

GSP and Nick Diaz are needed to return.

Outside of the above 4 named, there's really a stunning lack of draws and depth to the sport. And by draws i mean anyone capable of regularly bringing in 500,000 PPV buys, nevermind the 1.5 million benchmark McGregor keeps setting.

Mellor

wonderfullife wrote: »

Ari Emmanuel isn't in the business of long-haul 25-year investments. They'll be looking for immediate returns.
...

Sure Conor and Ronda put more money in his pocket. But they aren't going to make their money back on events alone. It will take decades to cover $4billion in profits/dividends.

They'll get the bulk back a few years when the sell or float the company.

Paully D

Interesting to see that the bookies can't really split DC and Rumble. Best price 4/5 for DC and 11/10 for Rumble.

CurryFlavoured

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Is it really that bad the way things have gone? I guess in terms of purity of the sport it is but you can't say it's not entertaining.

It's not that bad but as a fan of the sport first and the drama second, I like to see the champ fight the #1 contender/best ranked guy for the title.

CurryFlavoured

hendo111 wrote: »

The rankings mean nothing anyways they need an overhauling,thats one of my biggest problems with the current state of the UFC.

Really? What's wrong with it exactly (other than guys being ranked incorrectly)?

nomadchocolate

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Really? What's wrong with it exactly (other than guys being ranked incorrectly)?

I think one problem is that to my knowledge it is the media that do the rankings and they are inconsistent. Dana has called them out already

hendo111

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Really? What's wrong with it exactly (other than guys being ranked incorrectly)?

Its crazy you can beat a fighter yet still be ranked behind him,nobody even knows who does the rankings either some bunch of media member Ive never heard of.

JoeyJJ

A fluke win over a guy 15 spots ahead of you should catapult you ahead of him? Not easy to rank people.

Paully D

hendo111 wrote: »

Its crazy you can beat a fighter yet still be ranked behind him,nobody even knows who does the rankings either some bunch of media member Ive never heard of.

I don't completely agree here. Take Moreno and Smolka for example.

Moreno came in on short notice for his UFC debut after being the last ranked fighter on the current season of TUF. Fair play to him, he beat Smolka, it's a great story and he seems like a top guy so I'm not taking anything away from him, but does that mean he should automatically leap over someone who has 5 wins in the UFC and for the most part looked impressive?

IMO, no.

Depp

the problem with the rankings at the minute is its completely subjective, thats grand for sherdog or media media rankings but for the official ufc rankings that are used to decide title shots etc. there should be some form of points system or some other tangible metric used rather than some random 'journalists' opinion

hendo111

I hear ya but fluke wins are a whole other discussion,not sure how you can flukely submit louis Smolka it just doesnt happen,I dont believe in flukes in combat anyways if you throw a punch and it lands you meant to hurt your opponent.

Paully D

Depp wrote: »

the problem with the rankings at the minute is its completely subjective, thats grand for sherdog or media media rankings but for the official ufc rankings that are used to decide title shots etc. there should be some form of points system or some other tangible metric used rather than some random 'journalists' opinion

I don't think that the rankings are really used to decide title shots any more to be honest.

Taking the current champions:

Heavyweight: Stipe beat #3 ranked Overeem. Before that, Stipe was #2 when he faced Werdum.

Light Heavyweight: A bit of a mess because of Jones. But yeah, fair enough, it basically has gone by the rankings.

Middleweight: Bisping just beat #13 ranked Henderson and before that was ranked #4 when he stepped in against Rockhold to take the strap.

Welterweight: Woodley was #3 when he fought Lawler.

Lightweight: Alvarez was #4 when he fought dos Anjos.

Featherweight: Conor v Aldo was #1 contender no doubt.

Bantamweight: As above with Cruz v Dillashaw.

Flyweight: Cejudo was #3.

So really you're looking at two true champion v #1 contender match-ups for the last 8 title shots. I know things like injuries do have an impact too of course.

Depp

Paully D wrote: »

I don't think that the rankings are really used to decide title shots any more to be honest.

Taking the current champions:

Heavyweight: Stipe beat #3 ranked Overeem. Before that, Stipe was #2 when he faced Werdum.

Light Heavyweight: A bit of a mess because of Jones. But yeah, fair enough, it basically has gone by the rankings.

Middleweight: Bisping just beat #13 ranked Henderson and before that was ranked #4 when he stepped in against Rockhold to take the strap.

Welterweight: Woodley was #3 when he fought Lawler.

Lightweight: Alvarez was #4 when he fought dos Anjos.

Featherweight: Conor v Aldo was #1 contender no doubt.

Bantamweight: As above with Cruz v Dillashaw.

Flyweight: Cejudo was #3.

So really you're looking at two true champion v #1 contender match-ups for the last 8 title shots. I know things like injuries do have an impact too of course.

I know in practice its definitely not the deciding factor usually but how many times over the last few weeks have we heard ''khabib should've got the fight, he's ranked no.1'' Etc. when the ranking at this stage is practically meaningless, not bashing khabib or anything just a case thats fresh. Its not a true ranking its a conglomeration of 19 random media members opinions. What it should really be is a points based ranking with set numbers of points added/subtracted for finishes wins losses etc. would also be an insentive for guys to stay active and move up the rankings quickly.

MagicIRL

I would love to see Khabib get his shot but the chap needs to put together two wins in a row and show he won't break and require superglueing for a few months after every fight.

Mellor

hendo111 wrote: »

Its crazy you can beat a fighter yet still be ranked behind him,nobody even knows who does the rankings either some bunch of media member Ive never heard of.

That's not really crazy. Beating somene doesn't mean you are better than them, it just means you beat them.

Depp wrote: »

the problem with the rankings at the minute is its completely subjective, thats grand for sherdog or media media rankings but for the official ufc rankings that are used to decide title shots etc. there should be some form of points system or some other tangible metric used rather than some random 'journalists' opinion

A points system might be nice, but how could it possibly work?

Paully D wrote: »

.
So really you're looking at two true champion v #1 contender match-ups for the last 8 title shots. I know things like injuries do have an impact too of course.

To be fair Pauly, you're only looking at the last fights in isolation. In most of those cases the No.1 guy already had a shot and failed

Paully D

Mellor wrote: »

To be fair Pauly, you're only looking at the last fights in isolation. In most of those cases the No.1 guy already had a shot and failed

Yeah, that's a fair point.

Paully D

Brock Lesnar having his foot cream tested to see if that provides the answer to his positive test. Nice try, Brock.

Lukker-

Paully D wrote: »

Brock Lesnar having his foot cream tested to see if that provides the answer to his positive test. Nice try, Brock.

And eye drops.

Problem is, he didn't disclose he was on any medication before the fight.

Paully D

Duke Roufus' instructions to CM Punk at UFC 203:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/10/14/13245826/mma-news-transcription-how-duke-roufus-coached-cm-punk-mickey-gall-ufc-203

Pre-fight
Roufus: “You got this. I’m so proud of you now. Now remember, keep moving forward. Let’s go for that right hand right away [and] put him on his ass. If it don’t work, put him on the cage. You got this!”

:00-1:00

Roufus: (CM Punk throws the right hand right away, gets taken down instead) “Alright. Good guard. Breathe. (Corner 2: “Close your guard!”) Relax, relax. Defend. Good, tie him up, tie him up, tie him up. Tie him up, Punk. There you go! (Corner 2: “Work all the way up!) Work the other hand, get the underhook. Underhook, Punk. I need left underhook, Punk! Left underhook. Turn, turn, get that underhook, Punk! Turn into him. On your right hip! On your right hip! On your right hip! (Gall briefly mounts Punk, but Punk turns on his right hip and momentarily escapes.) There you go.”

1:01-2:14

Roufus: “There you go, good. Fight the wrists. Hang in there, you’re doing good. Breathe, inch-by-inch. Control the wrist. Control that wrist, you’re good. Good. (Corner 2: “Breathe, you got this.) There you go! You’re good. Fight the hand again. Turn, turn, turn! Other way! Gotta turn the other way, son. (CM Punk turns to his left, has his back taken, flattened out, and takes ground-and-pound from Gall) Move, move! Come up, come up. Gotta roll, gotta roll. Gotta move! You’re good. (Corner 2: “Move, Punk, move.”) Let’s make a move, make a move. (Gall attempts the rear-naked choke) Fight the choke, fight the choke. Fight. Peel the top hand, good, good. Peel the top hand! Good. Peel the top hand. Top hand, Punk! Reach up, both hands (CM Punk taps) awwww. That’s alright. Yup.”

Post-fight
Roufus to Punk: “Hey, it’s alright buddy. You did good, alright? It’s all good. All good. Alright? It’s all good, man.”

Roufus to Gall: “Hey Mickey, congratulations champ.”

Gall replies to Roufus: “It’s an honor.”

Roufus replies to Gall: “Oh thanks.”

Roufus to Punk: “It’s alright, man. It’s all good, all good man. It’s a fight, **** happens. Put this on.”

Foxtrol

Depp wrote: »

I know in practice its definitely not the deciding factor usually but how many times over the last few weeks have we heard ''khabib should've got the fight, he's ranked no.1'' Etc. when the ranking at this stage is practically meaningless, not bashing khabib or anything just a case thats fresh. Its not a true ranking its a conglomeration of 19 random media members opinions. What it should really be is a points based ranking with set numbers of points added/subtracted for finishes wins losses etc. would also be an insentive for guys to stay active and move up the rankings quickly.

They use ranking systems for lots of sports in the US and there are many complaints about all of them, including computer systems (which I don’t think are ever used in a sport where athletes compete so infrequently).

For most computer systems they’ll use the strength of the opponent and margin of victory (for MMA I would presume more points for a finish than a decision and more points for a 30-27 than a 29-28). Now how do you weigh each of these? How do you rank fighters that are coming in from other organizations? How many points would you lose when you are defeated? Do points change when it’s a late replacement?

Using computer rankings I cant see how you could justify Khabib being anywhere near #1 contender or how Woodley would have gotten near his title shot.

Computer rankings sound like a great idea but will raise as many complaints as the current system. I actually believe it would possibly make things worse as those who agree with the rankings will believe they will have science behind them and will be even more annoying when the UFC doesn’t go by the rankings.

Dtp1979

Paully D wrote: »

Brock Lesnar having his foot cream tested to see if that provides the answer to his positive test. Nice try, Brock.

Might explain his dreadful footwork though

wonderfullife

https://twitter.com/DavidGbd/status/787020879079280640


Looks like Love/Hate including some MMA.....

Paully D

Embarrassing main event. One of the worst ever.

https://twitter.com/ufc/status/787068391211147264?lang=en