General MMA Chat/News mk2

wonderfullife

Awesomeness wrote: »

Id blame them. Taking steriods when you get in a cage is blatant cheating.

Drinking might be normalized here but I am not gonna show up to work pissed and see how much damage I can do

Fair point!

I'm massively against PED use i just think it's more a cultural issue in Brazil. Cheating IS cheating, absolutely agree, i just think they culturally don't view it as cheating. It's normal to them. As in it's completely legal to go in to a chemist in Brazil and buy steroids off the shelf.

finglashoop

wonderfullife wrote: »

Fair point!

I'm massively against PED use i just think it's more a cultural issue in Brazil. Cheating IS cheating, absolutely agree, i just think they culturally don't view it as cheating. It's normal to them. As in it's completely legal to go in to a chemist in Brazil and buy steroids off the shelf.

Maybe so but they know the rules when they sign up to fight. No doubt the ufc didnt really care (like bellator now).

Mellor

wonderfullife wrote: »

It's normal to them. As in it's completely legal to go in to a chemist in Brazil and buy steroids off the shelf.

I'm aware it's very much a part of the Brazilian beach-muscle-cultural. But I don't think they are availible over the counter in a chemist.
Well not without a brown envelop going over the counter first.

wonderfullife

Mellor wrote: »

I'm aware it's very much a part of the Brazilian beach-muscle-cultural. But I don't think they are availible over the counter in a chemist.
Well not without a brown envelop going over the counter first.

I was told it's as easy as buying booze but you're right it's not strictly legal over the counter. It is in Peru as far as i know.

Mellor

It's a free for all in Mexico I believe.
"Mexican supplements" being a euphemism for steroids.

wonderfullife

Mellor wrote: »

It's a free for all in Mexico I believe.
"Mexican supplements" being a euphemism for steroids.

I think some Mexican politicians should campaign to build a big wall to stop US juicers coming through their border looking for juice :pac:

Subcomandante Marcos

Mellor wrote: »

It's a free for all in Mexico I believe.
"Mexican supplements" being a euphemism for steroids.

I think that has more to do with some of BALCO's best designers being Mexican, especially Memo, who was their star "development" specialist for athletics.

Mexico has the same rules and testing in Olympic sports as anywhere in the world and Mexican fighters in the UFC have the same testing regime as the US.

It's probably cheaper and easier to buy things in Mexico, but you're no less likely to get caught in professional sports.

CurryFlavoured

It's funny that people act like only the Brazilians use PEDs. Plenty yanks have failed tests - Mendes, Mir, Jones, Lesnar. Weidman, Pettis and Hendricks have had suspect 'declines'. Someones listening to Brendan Schaub and Joe Rogan too much.

brinty

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

It's funny that people act like only the Brazilians use PEDs. Plenty yanks have failed tests - Mendes, Mir, Jones, Lesnar. Weidman, Pettis and Hendricks have had suspect 'declines'. Someones listening to Brendan Schaub and Joe Rogan too much.

Weidman lost one fight,
c'mon now thats a bit sensationalist on your part

CurryFlavoured

brinty wrote: »

Weidman lost one fight,
c'mon now thats a bit sensationalist on your part

1 fight, ok. I thought he looked like **** compared to usual though. How about the rest of my post?

Gamebred

Pre and post Usada looks real different alright PMSL

brinty

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

1 fight, ok. I thought he looked like **** compared to usual though. How about the rest of my post?

Up to the wheel kick he was beating Pukehold...
One mistake in his career thus far.

of course a lot of americans have failed test but they make up the majority of the fighters. I agree with you listing but they're not the only ones

every country probably has one or two

CurryFlavoured

brinty wrote: »

Up to the wheel kick he was beating Pukehold...
One mistake in his career thus far.

of course a lot of americans have failed test but they make up the majority of the fighters. I agree with you listing but they're not the only ones

every country probably has one or two

Weidman wasn't a fair example, I'll take him back. He wasn't beating Rockhold though. Pictures tell you very little as well.

Theres a lot more than 1 or 2! Elite sport is rife with drugs, doesn't matter if you're Brazilian or yank.

TimRiggins

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Weidman wasn't a fair example, I'll take him back. He wasn't beating Rockhold though. Pictures tell you very little as well.

Theres a lot more than 1 or 2! Elite sport is rife with drugs, doesn't matter if you're Brazilian or yank.

Mendes and Pettis were crazy examples. Mendes popped for a supplement and Pettis's decline started Pre Usada. Look at Nova Unaio's record post USADA.

Depp

TimRiggins wrote: »

Mendes and Pettis were crazy examples. Mendes popped for a supplement and Pettis's decline started Pre Usada. Look at Nova Unaio's record post USADA.

fairly sure mendes was a skin cream for psoriasis actually!

MagicIRL

There are certainly fighters that have abandoned the juice and lost the edge but I wouldn't class Weidman as either of those. A great fighter who made one mistake. If he learns and comes back then he'll hold that MW belt again.

Swashbuckler

MagicIRL wrote: »

There are certainly fighters that have abandoned the juice and lost the edge but I wouldn't class Weidman as either of those. A great fighter who made one mistake. If he learns and comes back then he'll hold that MW belt again.

Yeah I agree. I thought he was edging that fight against Rockhold before the spinning kick. I fancy him to be beat Romero and then go on to beat Bisping.

Mellor

Depp wrote: »

fairly sure mendes was a skin cream for psoriasis actually!

That's what he claimed. But he also just accepted the ban. So he never provided the skin cream as evidence, afaik.
I'm not sure if it was ever proved that the substance is even in skincreams. Apparently it's not FDA approved either (according to Reddit). And there's doubts over whether topical use could cause a positive test.

EagererBeaver

Mellor wrote: »

That's what he claimed. But he also just accepted the ban. So he never provided the skin cream as evidence, afaik.
I'm not sure if it was ever proved that the substance is even in skincreams. Apparently it's not FDA approved either (according to Reddit). And there's doubts over whether topical use could cause a positive test.

Justin Gatlin still claims a vengeful masseur had it in for him and rubbed the clear into his arse cheeks back in '06 lol

Gamebred

I see RDA has left Cordeiro's Kings MMA


https://twitter.com/GrabakaHitman/status/792003632015310848

wonderfullife

He was hinting to Ariel earlier in the year that his title loss showed him who was loyal and who the snakes were basically. Not surprising news on the back of that.

He's got his hands full with Ferguson!

Gamebred

Yeah I remember that alright I know he always trained with Evolve but didnt expect him leaving Kings altogether,I think Ferguson will take all his shots walk through them and tko him Tony's chin is incredible hes easy to hit but very hard to stop,I'd be very impressed if he subbed RDA.

wonderfullife

Gamebred wrote: »

Yeah I remember that alright I know he always trained with Evolve but didnt expect him leaving Kings altogether,I think Ferguson will take all his shots walk through them and tko him Tony's chin is incredible hes easy to hit but very hard to stop,I'd be very impressed if he subbed RDA.

Lando had him in serious trouble though. He absolutely leveled him with that shot, Tony did the chicken dance. Now, fair play he recovered but if RDA hits him clear it won't be good news!!

Gamebred

wonderfullife wrote: »

Lando had him in serious trouble though. He absolutely leveled him with that shot, Tony did the chicken dance. Now, fair play he recovered but if RDA hits him clear it won't be good news!!

So did Barboza,he gets into awful trouble and walks forward like a zombie absolute mad man with serious grappling skills


Classic fight for anyone who hastn seen it

hefferboi

Barboza's probably my favourite fighter to watch, after McGregor. His leg kicks are scary. His chin is suspect though and he's a bad finisher. I'd actually love to see him fight McGregor I think it'd be a serious match up.

Paully D

MMAJunkie breakdown of a leaked investor document on the new owners' plans:

http://mmajunkie.com/2016/10/ufc-documents-lay-out-promotions-plan-to-grow-profits-and-increase-earn-outs-by-shrinking-expenses

The money that changed hands when the UFC sold in July to a group led by entertainment powerhouse WME-IMG was slightly lower than the reported $4 billion, according to an investor document obtained by MMAjunkie that details the transaction.

But money that will change hands if the new promotion hits earnings goals will kick it over that mark.

WME-IMG, backed by Silver Lake Partners and KKR, paid the former owners $3,775,000,000 up front for the industry-leading MMA promotion, while about $200 million went to banker fees and other expenses.

The money could get bigger for the UFC’s new management group, including president Dana White, which has attached big bonuses to huge gains in earnings.

According to the document, the new group stands to make an additional $250 million in “earn-outs” if two performance goals are met over the next two years. The $250 million represents 6.2 percent of the UFC’s reported total value of $4.025 billion.

The UFC claimed its EBITDA (earnings before interest, tax and depreciation) was $170 million from June 2015 to June 2016. But to get those bonuses, the new owners need to bump that figure to $275 million – an increase of approximately 61 percent – through June 2017 to earn a $175 million payout.

By the end of 2018, that figure needs to increase to $350 million to earn an additional $75 million.

While the earnings numbers reported in the document are “pro forma,” meaning they haven’t been audited by an outside firm, they are generally expected to be accurate for financiers and others looking at the business.

However, the document also clarifies that the figures represent “various estimates and assumptions” about “anticipated results,” meaning they’re not meant to be 100 percent accurate.

So how does the new company plan to take the UFC to profit levels it hasn’t previously seen?

In part, according to the document, the team is counting on a full schedule of 13 pay-per-view events, including the promotion’s long-awaited debut in New York, which is expected to bring in as much as $15 million in revenue just at the gate.

Increased rights fees from the UFC TV partnership with FOX and other sponsors are expected to bring in another $48 million in “contracted growth.”

One of the biggest drivers for growth, however, is cutting costs.

When the UFC laid off “under 15 percent” of its workforce earlier this month, it was just one phase of cost-cutting measures that WME-IMG expects will save the company $71 million.

An analysis of the business, conducted in part by corporate turnaround specialist Alvarez and Marsal, identified employee compensation as the biggest area of cost savings. The new group expects a payroll of $55.4 million to be slashed to $27 million, estimating a 44 percent to 53 percent reduction. Offsetting the cuts is a onetime $5 million severance payout.

The UFC’s long-running reality show “The Ultimate Fighter” also appears headed for major cutbacks. According to the document, the show’s production budget will be cut from $27.6 million to $10 million.

In a slide identified in the document as “synergy and cost saving opportunity,” the new owners tout savings opportunities “through increased standardization and more rigorous corporate discipline, namely in “compensation practices, (travel and expense) policies, long-lived consultants, political contributions, overhead, etc.”

It’s currently unclear where that leaves retired fighters such as Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, who hold largely ceremonial positions with the company.

WME-IMG reaps $25 million per year as a “management fee” for the UFC. But one big line item is most certainly gone – the cost of corporate jet used to fly the previous owners around the world.

The document clarifies that, “The corporate airplane is not part of the acquisition and we do not expect such expenses on an ongoing basis.”

Check back with MMAjunkie for more on the business strategy laid out by the UFC in the wake of its $4 billion sale.

MichaelScarn

"According to the document, the new group stands to make an additional $250 million in “earn-outs” if two performance goals are met over the next two years. The $250 million represents 6.2 percent of the UFC’s reported total value of $4.025 billion."

Who gives the owners this money if they achieve this goal?

wonderfullife

MichaelScarn wrote: »

"According to the document, the new group stands to make an additional $250 million in “earn-outs” if two performance goals are met over the next two years. The $250 million represents 6.2 percent of the UFC’s reported total value of $4.025 billion."

Who gives the owners this money if they achieve this goal?

An earn-out is a bit of a misleading name.

Do you follow football? Best example is this: Man Utd buy a player from Southampton who insert a performance-clause in the deal. So, they might get £18 million up front and if the player goes on to score a set amount of goals for Man Utd then they owe Southampton more money.

So in this case - if the UFC does well in next 2 years and hits certain numbers profit wise, they owe the Fertitta brothers another $250 million.

MichaelScarn

It is abit of a misnomer alright.

The sentence to me reads that if the new group hits these targets then they earn $250 million. In reality, from what you are saying, if they hit these targets they owe the Fertita's and Dana $250 million.

This leads me to ask why the new owners want to hit these targets? If they do they have to pay an extra $250 million. How does that make financial sense?

wonderfullife

MichaelScarn wrote: »

It is abit of a misnomer alright.

The sentence to me reads that if the new group hits these targets then they earn $250 million. In reality, from what you are saying, if they hit these targets they owe the Fertita's and Dana $250 million.

This leads me to ask why the new owners want to hit these targets? If they do they have to pay an extra $250 million. How does that make financial sense?

Ok, let's say the target is $195 million net profit for 2017 and $265 million for 2018.

If they make $400 million in 2017 and $635 million in 2018, then they'll gladly hand over $250 million to the Fertittas.

But let's imagine the Ali Act comes in or a fighters union and they end up making $150 million and $210 million.....

Then they have saved themselves money in structuring the deal that way.

It's an insurance policy basically. It's a case of saying "right the number is $4 billion but you can give us the last $250 million if you do well, if you do badly then keep it".