General MMA Chat/News mk2

Django99 · 02-03-2017 9:26am

Mellor wrote: »

If you man right now, I don't think a rematch a draw counts as a screwjob.

If you mean in the future. If he chokes Jorge, there's no other choice. But who knows the way things are going. I seen Lawler is back in training which is worrying from Maia's POV.

We probably would have said the same (about there being no other choice) once he beat Condit and once Romero beat Weidman. There's no guaranteed match ups in my opinion. And I don't really thing this is a WME thing either, title shots have always been going to whoever will generate the most money.

Lots of fighters have been given title shots off losses and poor recent records ahead of more deserving fighter last but thats prize fighting.

Mellor · 02-03-2017 10:52am

Django99 wrote: »

We probably would have said the same (about there being no other choice) once he beat Condit...

No really.
Wonderboy had beaten Hendricks and Rory McDonald. He was always ahead of Maia. There was serious talk at the time that WB deserved the shot (at Lawler) ahead of Woodley.
Making out he skipped Maia he quite revisionist imo.

Django99 · 02-03-2017 12:12pm

Mellor wrote: »

No really.
Wonderboy had beaten Hendricks and Rory McDonald. He was always ahead of Maia. There was serious talk at the time that WB deserved the shot (at Lawler) ahead of Woodley.
Making out he skipped Maia he quite revisionist imo.

But since then Maia has beaten Condit which for many was the fight to secure the title shot. He has now had to book another fight (which is more due to the fact that Woodley/Wonderboy was a draw) which shows that nobody can really bank on a title shot off any win.

The best way to get a title shot is probably by being vocal and trying to market yourself, which is unfortunate but again it's prize fighting.

Django99 · 02-03-2017 12:26pm

Just some recent and not so recent examples of fighters looking like they were next in line to fight for a title but didn't happen.

When Edgar beat Mendes two days before 194 we all thought he would get the next title shot. Then 13 seconds happened and we all thought Aldo would be sure to get a rematch. Instead Aldo beats Edgar but still no title shot. All out of control of Aldo/Edgar's hands as McGregor was fighting in different weight classes, but both Aldo and Edgar were both put out as much as Maia/Romero would be.

Dillashaw lost a razor close split decision to Cruz on his third defence, and then dominated the next best contender at 200. He looked guaranteed to get a rematch but Cody came along and got people interested, so he jumped the queue. TJ then beat the next best contender, and there was still talk of Cruz getting a rematch ahead of TJ getting a shot.

And when WEC merged with UFC, Pettis was supposed to fight Edgar as champ v champ but Edgar drew within Maynard so they had a rematch. In the meantime Pettis took a fight and lost, so Benson Henderson got a title shot first. This was not long after Pettis had beaten Henderson in WEC

So fighters who have deserved title shots have been missing out on them for years, this isn't a new thing with WME.

And often times it's McGregor that's causing it, but when it's Bisping/GSP/Woodley causing the log jam people seem to get more frustrated

Mellor · 02-03-2017 12:33pm

Django99 wrote: »

But since then Maia has beaten Condit which for many was the fight to secure the title shot. He has now had to book another fight (which is more due to the fact that Woodley/Wonderboy was a draw) which shows that nobody can really bank on a title shot off any win.

Pretty sure Wonderboy v Woodley was booked after Maia beat Condit.
But that irrelevant, WB was the no.1 contender, he fairly got the shot. That fight is legitimately unresolved. Maia hasn't been skipped, yet at least.

Sure, Maia could have sat out and still legitimately been no.1.
But I don't thing sitting out for 12 months should be the default option.
Woodley got a lot of sh*t for sitting out once he got to the top, feels a bit hypocritical to encourage Maia to do the same.

Django99 · 02-03-2017 12:40pm

Mellor wrote: »

Pretty sure Wonderboy v Woodley was booked after Maia beat Condit.
But that irrelevant, WB was the no.1 contender, he fairly got the shot. That fight is legitimately unresolved. Maia hasn't been skipped, yet at least.

Sure, Maia could have sat out and still legitimately been no.1.
But I don't thing sitting out for 12 months should be the default option.
Woodley got a lot of sh*t for sitting out once he got to the top, feels a bit hypocritical to encourage Maia to do the same.

It had been in the works though, and as you say WB was almost over due his shot.

I agree that no one should sit out for a year waiting for a shot, as I said above so many things can happen to change the path of a title shot. Better to keep active and keep winning until you've beaten everyone except the champ, then you'll get a shot for sure.

Woodleys case was even worse as he was sitting out based on a cancelled fight with Hendricks. His run up until then was nothing spectacular at all. It wasn't even the same as Khabib being out for so long as Woodley wasn't even injured, he was just waiting for the fight.

Django99 · 02-03-2017 12:40pm

Mellor wrote: »

Pretty sure Wonderboy v Woodley was booked after Maia beat Condit.
But that irrelevant, WB was the no.1 contender, he fairly got the shot. That fight is legitimately unresolved. Maia hasn't been skipped, yet at least.

Sure, Maia could have sat out and still legitimately been no.1.
But I don't thing sitting out for 12 months should be the default option.
Woodley got a lot of sh*t for sitting out once he got to the top, feels a bit hypocritical to encourage Maia to do the same.

It had been in the works though, and as you say WB was almost over due his shot.

I agree that no one should sit out for a year waiting for a shot, as I said above so many things can happen to change the path of a title shot. Better to keep active and keep winning until you've beaten everyone except the champ, then you'll get a shot for sure.

Woodleys case was even worse as he was sitting out based on a cancelled fight with Hendricks. His run up until then was nothing spectacular at all. It wasn't even the same as Khabib being out for so long as Woodley wasn't even injured, he was just waiting for the fight.

Mellor · 02-03-2017 1:01pm

Django99 wrote: »

Just some recent and not so recent examples of fighters looking like they were next in line to fight for a title but didn't happen.

I said it didn't happen to Maia, not that it has never happened.

When Edgar beat Mendes two days before 194 we all thought he would get the next title shot. Then 13 seconds happened and we all thought Aldo would be sure to get a rematch. Instead Aldo beats Edgar but still no title shot. All out of control of Aldo/Edgar's hands as McGregor was fighting in different weight classes, but both Aldo and Edgar were both put out as much as Maia/Romero would be.

The next 145lb title fight after 194 was Aldo vrs Edgar at 200.
In that regard they both got to fight to crown what would be the current champ.

Dillashaw lost a razor close split decision to Cruz on his third defence, and then dominated the next best contender at 200. He looked guaranteed to get a rematch but Cody came along and got people interested, so he jumped the queue. TJ then beat the next best contender, and there was still talk of Cruz getting a rematch ahead of TJ getting a shot.

I'm not sure that's accurate?
TJ beat Linekar the same night Cody beat Cruz. The UFC turned around and instantly booked Cody v TJ for TUF. They're the coaches, TJ's got the shot.

It's likely that the only reason Cody got the shot was that TJ vrs Cody/Cruz was win/win for TYF.

And when WEC merged with UFC, Pettis was supposed to fight Edgar as champ v champ but Edgar drew within Maynard so they had a rematch. In the meantime Pettis took a fight and lost, so Benson Henderson got a title shot first. This was not long after Pettis had beaten Henderson in WEC

Edgar v Mayard II was one of the best fights of all time. Frankie's Rd 1 comeback was amazing and the 47-47 score was spot on. There is no grounds for issue with that rematch really, more so than any rematch that's ever happened.

Sometimes fighters lose their spot at the top. It happens. Doesn't mean they were screwed.
I'm not saying nobody has ever been skipped over, they have. I just don't think anybody in any of those fights got screwed out of their shot.

MrStuffins · 02-03-2017 1:06pm

Lads, I don't care if it's Yoel Romero or George A. Romero.

When GSP comes back, he gets a title shot ahead of you. End of story!

Mellor · 02-03-2017 1:09pm

Django99 wrote:

It had been in the works though, and as you say WB was almost over due his shot.

Im not sure I follow. You're agreeing that WB was overdue a shot. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.
Simple question(s);
Do you think Wonderboy skipped Maia?
When should (have) Maia fought for the title? 205, 209 or 2013?

Django99 · 02-03-2017 2:55pm

Mellor wrote: »

Im not sure I follow. You're agreeing that WB was overdue a shot. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.
Simple question(s);
Do you think Wonderboy skipped Maia?
When should (have) Maia fought for the title? 205, 209 or 2013?

Wonderboy didn't skip Maia. Maia should not yet have fought for the title. He should fight the winner of Woodley v Wonderboy.

What I am saying is that even though he deserved to, there is a good chance he won't. Whether that's because he loses to Masvidal, if GSP decides to fight at WW, if McGregor wants to go up and challenge, there are multiple things that could still happen to prevent Maia getting a title shot.

My point, and it's not specifically directed at you, is that fans get very hung up when the fighter they believe to be next in line don't get a title shot. This has been happening forever but a lot of people seem to blaming WME for this. I would of argue that this has always been happening , including under the Fertitta ownership

thewheel2.0 · 02-03-2017 3:50pm

Mellor wrote: »

You have to hand it to Dizz, he nailed this one two weeks ago.

https://twitter.com/TalkMMA/status/834946424081104897

He's a great man for rumours but I had to unfollow him with all the non MMA sh!te he posts. He has been on the ball for the last year though.

For this weekend I keep changing my mind on who I'm picking, its keeping me entertained while grinding out the remaining hours of work before the weekend...

Awesomeness · 02-03-2017 4:09pm

Django99 wrote: »

Wonderboy didn't skip Maia. Maia should not yet have fought for the title. He should fight the winner of Woodley v Wonderboy.

What I am saying is that even though he deserved to, there is a good chance he won't. Whether that's because he loses to Masvidal, if GSP decides to fight at WW, if McGregor wants to go up and challenge, there are multiple things that could still happen to prevent Maia getting a title shot.

My point, and it's not specifically directed at you, is that fans get very hung up when the fighter they believe to be next in line don't get a title shot. This has been happening forever but a lot of people seem to blaming WME for this. I would of argue that this has always been happening , including under the Fertitta ownership

Yes and no. It has happened before(Lesnar) but not as often as now.

Now that Conor did it everybody seems to want to move into multiple divisions and its causing lots of backlog. Before we had guys probably less deserving in the division getting a shot. Now we sometimes have that except the candidates are coming from 3 divisions (current, division above, division below) as well as fighters that were names trying to claim shots(diaz)

Django99 · 02-03-2017 6:38pm

Awesomeness wrote: »

Yes and no. It has happened before(Lesnar) but not as often as now.

Now that Conor did it everybody seems to want to move into multiple divisions and its causing lots of backlog. Before we had guys probably less deserving in the division getting a shot. Now we sometimes have that except the candidates are coming from 3 divisions (current, division above, division below) as well as fighters that were names trying to claim shots(diaz)

It's happened with more than just Lesnar though. Nick Diaz fought for the title off a loss. Bj Penn fought for a title off a loss. Randy Couture fought for titles off losses.

There have always been big names in the sport that jump ahead of more worthy contenders with better recent records. It may seem unfair but they have always gone for the big money fights over ranking position, if the choice is there.

moneymad · 02-03-2017 10:31pm

god anyone listen to this guy on youtube?
his videos are fucking brilliant.

MixedMollyWhoppery

mailburner · 02-03-2017 11:56pm

Gamebred · 03-03-2017 12:11am

The whole Bisping ''earned this payday'' is gas, like hes out there broke not a pot to piss in.

darced · 03-03-2017 1:27am

This post has been deleted.

Mellor · 03-03-2017 1:59am

Django99 wrote: »

Wonderboy didn't skip Maia. Maia should not yet have fought for the title. He should fight the winner of Woodley v Wonderboy.

Agreed.

Gamebred wrote: »

The whole Bisping ''earned this payday'' is gas, like hes out there broke not a pot to piss in.

It's also weird people saying Bisping is looking for money fights.
The UFC brought him Hendo, the UFC brought him GSP.
These were the UFCs first choices, the fights they wanted to make.

What Bisping supposed to do;
"Nah your alright lads, I'll take the big Cuban guy currently banned by USADA, for less money please".

Gamebred · 03-03-2017 2:14am

Mellor wrote: »

Agreed.

It's also weird people saying Bisping is looking for money fights.
The UFC brought him Hendo, the UFC brought him GSP.
These were the UFCs first choices, the fights they wanted to make.

What Bisping supposed to do;
"Nah your alright lads, I'll take the big Cuban guy currently banned by USADA, for less money please".

Not seen many people blame Bisping tbh, UFC are facilitating the ''ducking'' of Romero, I've seen Helwani and himself even harp on about him not getting his 1m payday for a fight in his career and how its deserved, nobody begrudges him but this makes a joke of the division expect interim belts and a clog up for a year due to it.

califano · 03-03-2017 5:04pm

Also Bisping v GSP will be a cracking fight too!. I think id be making Bisping the fav also, this is a fight he can definitely win. The classic bird in the hand better than 2 in the bush scenario. Everything finally falling into place for Bisping late in his career.

MartyMcFly84 · 03-03-2017 5:49pm

If Bisping wins. We will of defeated Anderson Silva and GSP. The two pound for pound fighters of his era. Granted he did not meet either when they were on top, but an amazing feather to have in your cap nonetheless