General MMA Chat/News mk2

Devastator

finglashoop wrote: »

Its a two way street. He is an outlet for free promotion. He promotes fighters better thsn the ufc by getting lesser known people on there. How many people listen to his show?

Absolutely, but when 1 side of the street thinks the guy on the other side is trying to piss them off then its understandable to have a reaction.

Imagine if your DW sitting there last night, thinking to yourself "Awesome!! few hard weeks sorting out Lesnar's return, I'm going to sit and enjoy these fights tonight after all that and look forward to our promo which we've spent money on making" when his phone starts going nuts about the Lesnar news. Next thing he spots Helwani sitting across the octagon with a smug look on his face saying to some 'fight'fan wanting a selfie with him "Helwani strikes again!".

Incidently, I'm not on either side of your street I'm standing in the middle of the road wondering why everyone is getting so upset and calling Helwani a d*ck for ruining it for himself

Fromvert wrote: »

Those organisations don't go banning the journalist's and stripping credentials for reporting that info.

Alec Ferguson banned numerous journalists from attending press conferences when he was at Man Utd. He himself, completely stopped talking to the BBC over a story which panorama ran about his son. I'm sure pretty much every sport, worldwide, there have been journalists banned.

Fromvert

WarZ wrote: »

It's very different though.

The UFC marketing strategy means that fight announcements, especially big ones, are carefully planned in order to maximize revenue from PPV's. Football/NFL/NBA clubs don't have this dilemma when transfer announcements are leaked.

It's his job to report big stories in the sport, come backs/fight announcements are the big news.
The UFC should concentrate on who leaked the story to Helwani. Helwani probably got the story, confirmed it, ran it by his boss and his boss said break it.
If I had to guess I'd think Paul Heyman, could of been the man to leak it. He's one of the few people close to Lesnar and is also friend's with Helwani.

WarZ

Fromvert wrote: »

It's his job to report big stories in the sport, come backs/fight announcements are the big news.
The UFC should concentrate on who leaked the story to Helwani. Helwani probably got the story, confirmed it, ran it by his boss and his boss said break it.
If I had to guess I'd think Paul Heyman, could of been the man to leak it. He's one of the few people close to Lesnar and is also friend's with Helwani.

3hrs before the announcement was due just strikes me as him just wanting to be the one to break it for purely egotistical reasons. He obviously knew the UFC had spent money making the promo and were unveiling it on the night as part of their marketing strategy. It's not like Helwani broke the news weeks before or whatever, he broke it hours before the official announcement taking pretty much all the air out of it.

Davei141

Fromvert wrote: »

Some people don't seem to understand what journalist's do.

It's the same in any other sport, who breaks news of transfers, trades in soccer/NFL/NBA etc. Journalist's do when they get the info. Those organisations don't go banning the journalist's and stripping credentials for reporting that info. Big fight announcements are the transfers/trades in MMA.

But the UFC don't want journalist's to be journalist's, they just want them to be an extra promotional arm for them.

Exactly. It is kind of baffling listening to some of the comments.

Devastator wrote: »

Absolutely, but when 1 side of the street thinks the guy on the other side is trying to piss them off then its understandable to have a reaction.

Imagine if your DW sitting there last night, thinking to yourself "Awesome!! few hard weeks sorting out Lesnar's return, I'm going to sit and enjoy these fights tonight after all that and look forward to our promo which we've spent money on making" when his phone starts going nuts about the Lesnar news. Next thing he spots Helwani sitting across the octagon with a smug look on his face saying to some 'fight'fan wanting a selfie with him "Helwani strikes again!".

Incidently, I'm not on either side of your street I'm standing in the middle of the road wondering why everyone is getting so upset and calling Helwani a d*ck for ruining it for himself



Alec Ferguson banned numerous journalists from attending press conferences when he was at Man Utd. He himself, completely stopped talking to the BBC over a story which panorama ran about his son. I'm sure pretty much every sport, worldwide, there have been journalists banned.

Listen to what you are saying. "ruined it for himself" by doing his job. Yep, you still don't know what journalists are supposed to do.

Gamebred

Helwani aside the 2 photographers they ejected alongside him is disgraceful.

Davei141

WarZ wrote: »

3hrs before the announcement was due just strikes me as him just wanting to be the one to break it for purely egotistical reasons. He obviously knew the UFC had spent money making the promo and were unveiling it on the night as part of their marketing strategy. It's not like Helwani broke the news weeks before or whatever, he broke it hours before the official announcement taking pretty much all the air out of it.

You know what took the air out of one of the greatest events the UFC has ever had and all the excitement of Diaz McG 202 finalised and Lesnar returning? Have a guess.

People are saying he should be doing favours by sitting on scoops for a company that got him fired for talking about free agency..

Gamebred

They sacked him after a 3 minute phonecall from fox over asking fighters about their contracts so Im glad he ruined it and pissed Dana off,I dont see the ufc backtracking they are making a statement here they'd look weak letting him back in.

Fromvert

WarZ wrote: »

3hrs before the announcement was due just strikes me as him just wanting to be the one to break it for purely egotistical reasons. He obviously knew the UFC had spent money making the promo and were unveiling it on the night as part of their marketing strategy. It's not like Helwani broke the news weeks before or whatever, he broke it hours before the official announcement taking pretty much all the air out of it.

It doesn't matter when he got the info, if he got it 2 minutes before it's his job to announce it. He can't tell his boss, oh yeah I had that news but decided not to break it. His job is to break news which drives traffic to Mmafighting.com which generates money for his bosses.
Breaking news usually comes close to an official announcement as all the wheels are moving and it's hard to keep quiet.

Lukker-

Fromvert wrote: »

It doesn't matter when he got the info, if he got it 2 minutes before it's his job to announce it. He can't tell his boss, oh yeah I had that news but decided not to break it. His job is to break news which drives traffic to Mmafighting.com which generates money for his bosses.
Breaking news usually comes close to an official announcement as all the wheels are moving and it's hard to keep quiet.

But he broke it while he was a guest at a UFC event, which they provide free tickets for, access to the fighters backstage and a chance to interview them. Imagine being invited to Twitter HQ for some announcement, you go, but break the news from info an employee leaked to you before Twitter do. Do you think Twitter will invite you back?

I'm not condoning what they did, but not that long ago Ariel was the golden boy of MMA reporting and Dana spoon fed him all the information he wanted and gave him 1 on 1 interviews and even big announcements like the UFC buying Strikeforce. Ariel was happy to throw him nice and easy questions back than but he tried to play both sides of the fence. I honestly don't know what he expected.

I'd be seriously concerned for his source too, if the Fertittas find out who it is something terrible is going to happen to them.

mdwexford

I keep switching my view on this every time someone makes a good point.

I can see both sides to it, awkward situation now.

Davei141

Fromvert wrote: »

It doesn't matter when he got the info, if he got it 2 minutes before it's his job to announce it. He can't tell his boss, oh yeah I had that news but decided not to break it. His job is to break news which drives traffic to Mmafighting.com which generates money for his bosses.
Breaking news usually comes close to an official announcement as all the wheels are moving and it's hard to keep quiet.

People will never get it. They think its his job to make the UFC happy.

Devastator

Helwani "You scratch my back and I'll stab you in yours" :pac:

If he had played his hand better he could have made a cryptic tweet eg"HUGE NEWS. THE RETURN! Watch tonight!!" kinda deal, and said no more. So he's creating a buzz on twitter, he gets the nod of the cap when the promo airs, and he's sitting sweet in his UFC paid for seat to do his job and maybe even thanked afterwards. He's getting a favor from them(ticket,etc) and he's doing 1 back(getting hype around promo & fights).

Davei141

Devastator wrote: »

Helwani "You scratch my back and I'll stab you in yours" :pac:

If he had played his hand better he could have made a cryptic tweet eg"HUGE NEWS. THE RETURN! Watch tonight!!" kinda deal, and said no more. So he's creating a buzz on twitter, he gets the nod of the cap when the promo airs, and he's sitting sweet in his UFC paid for seat to do his job and maybe even thanked afterwards. He's getting a favor from them(ticket,etc) and he's doing 1 back(getting hype around promo & fights).

https://www.google.ie/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dictionary+journalist

https://www.google.ie/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=public+relations+definition

WarZ

Davei141 wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dictionary+journalist

https://www.google.ie/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=public+relations+definition

A bit of professional courtesy from Helwani would've gone a long way considering he was a guest at a UFC event and it was going to be announced in under 3 hours anyway.

People make it out like Helwani was undertaking some noble act by exposing the return of Brock for the good of the public. In reality he did it to increase his RTs and followers and obviously knew Dana and Lorenzo would be pissed off. You just don't do that when you're a guest at the event, have been helped enormously by the organization and when there is no tangible public benefit in doing so. If you're Dana White are you honestly going to continue to allow Helwani to sit, free of charge, at your organizations event?

Paully D

I think I asked this on here before, but is there any site that gives records for gyms over a certain period of time? The reason I ask is that every time I watch a Tristar fighter these days they seem to lose so I would love to see some figures.

xtal191

DC isn't with American Top Team, he's with AKA

ASOT

Paully D wrote: »

I think I asked this on here before, but is there any site that gives records for gyms over a certain period of time? The reason I ask is that every time I watch a Tristar fighter these days they seem to lose so I would love to see some figures.

In 2016 - 4-5
Since USADA - 9-10
In 2015 22-10
Outside UFC - 9-1
All Organisations Since 2015 - 37-16

Thats what i could gather from taking there top 30 fighters if thats any use. Im actually going to do the top gyms now it was actually fairly good to know those stats.

jcd5971

finglashoop wrote:

Its a two way street. He is an outlet for free promotion. He promotes fighters better thsn the ufc by getting lesser known people on there. How many people listen to his show?

To be fair I don't think a podcast called the mma hour is going to draw in too many casual fans. I like helwani but as a few others said this has been coming, I thought the Fox job loss was harsh, this seemed petty to me from helwani, I felt a bit disappointed to here the lesnar leak from him rather than the thrill I would have had from ufc 200 trailer which was a bit meh otherwise

Paully D

ASOT wrote: »

In 2016 - 4-5
Since USADA - 9-10
In 2015 22-10
Outside UFC - 9-1
All Organisations Since 2015 - 37-16

Thats what i could gather from taking there top 30 fighters if thats any use.

Thanks for that mate.

It's not as bad of a record as I thought, and they're flying outside of the UFC, but in terms of their UFC record the 2016 and post-USADA figures don't make good reading. They're on a tough run at the highest level of late.

Please share the stats for other gyms when you get them done, it's very interesting.

ASOT

Paully D wrote: »

Thanks for that mate. It's not as bad of a record as I thought, and they're flying outside of the UFC, but in terms of their UFC record the 2016 and post-USADA figures don't make good reading. They're on a tough run at the highest level of late.

I think this deserves its own thread, im going to make one of each gym then it can be easily updated, obviously with fighters changing camps it will never be 100% accurate but itll be something to go off of.

EagererBeaver

jcd5971 wrote: »

To be fair I don't think a podcast called the mma hour is going to draw in too many casual fans. I like helwani but as a few others said this has been coming, I thought the Fox job loss was harsh, this seemed petty to me from helwani, I felt a bit disappointed to here the lesnar leak from him rather than the thrill I would have had from ufc 200 trailer which was a bit meh otherwise

It's not wrestling ffs. The UFC is continuously trying to push itself into the mainstream. That means open access for media without fear of retribution simply for doing their jobs.

jcd5971

EagererBeaver wrote:

It's not wrestling ffs. The UFC is continuously trying to push itself into the mainstream. That means open access for media without fear of retribution simply for doing their jobs.

I think that's a massively naive viewpoint. But we all have opinions on things like this.

I just don't buy the helwani for the downtrodden on this one, he broke it 3 hrs early and it was not for fans or fighters or unions or peace and love it was for helwani.

I think he shat the bed on this one.

And again I'm usually a big fan of him

finglashoop

jcd5971 wrote: »

To be fair I don't think a podcast called the mma hour is going to draw in too many casual fans. I like helwani but as a few others said this has been coming, I thought the Fox job loss was harsh, this seemed petty to me from helwani, I felt a bit disappointed to here the lesnar leak from him rather than the thrill I would have had from ufc 200 trailer which was a bit meh otherwise

No its an mma show but he doesn't just have top stars on it. He has all types of fighters. Mainly ufc, free air time. Free promotion of all ufc activities really

ASOT

Paully D wrote: »

Thanks for that mate.

It's not as bad of a record as I thought, and they're flying outside of the UFC, but in terms of their UFC record the 2016 and post-USADA figures don't make good reading. They're on a tough run at the highest level of late.

Please share the stats for other gyms when you get them done, it's very interesting.

In 2016 - 1-8
Since USADA - 3-12
In 2015 9-6
Outside UFC - 25-19
All Organisations Since 2015 - 35-33

Stats you dont want to see post USADA

Mellor

finglashoop wrote: »

I understand what your saying but I think hes right. He should stick it to the ufc every chance he gets.

Hes a reporter on mma and while the ufc is a huge part of that he should be able to do his job. His job is finding and reporting stories.

Ok so you think he should stick it to the UFC every chance he gets. Running stories to piss them off etc. That's his choice as a reporter.

But you honestly think there's no possible consequences to that? That the UFC are still obliged to give him free entry to all UFC events, in pretty good seats, plus free meals and presser access etc.

Zuffa are in the wrong to kick him out. But people saying that they are obligated to giving him free tickets and access are also wrong imo.

Mellor

ASOT wrote: »

In 2016 - 1-8
Since USADA - 3-12
In 2015 9-6
Outside UFC - 25-19
All Organisations Since 2015 - 35-33

Stats you dont want to see post USADA

If you think that's bad post USADA, check out Nova Uniao. We're pretty dominant pre I'd guess, like 3-18 post

finglashoop

Mellor wrote: »

Ok so you think he should stick it to the UFC every chance he gets. Running stories to piss them off etc. That's his choice as a reporter.

But you honestly think there's no possible consequences to that? That the UFC are still obliged to give him free entry to all UFC events, in pretty good seats, plus free meals and presser access etc.

Zuffa are in the wrong to kick him out. But people saying that they are obligated to giving him free tickets and access are also wrong imo.

He reports news. Bonus if it pisses them off after they ge him sacked. Not obligated to give him free tickets but he does a lot if promotion. Be interesting to see what happens if he buys a ticket.

Mellor

finglashoop wrote: »

Not obligated to give him free tickets but he does a lot if promotion.

That's my point. I think a lot of people out are outraged but aren't really aware of what has been taken away.
They can't stop him reporting on UFC, or stop his podcast/show. But they can take away free tickets and presser access, that's hardly surprising tbh.

If he buys a ticket he'll be allowed to watch the event, but he'll get as much info in the spectator seat as as he would on fightpass.

Gamebred

His media day interviews ect walks with helwani will go out the window though,ufc will put pressure on the fighters not to speak to him,the fighters wont back him up when the ufc puts the boot down they need to eat,this will get messy imo hope im wrong.

I like Helwani but in my opinion the UFC probably spent millions on getting brock/marketing for UFC 200 and Helwani should have let them announce it as a surprise, but he couldn't help himself. If I was running an organization and someone ruined my announcement after spending so long/ so much money working on it, I would also throw him out.