New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

AbusesToilets

Mac could've been better than he ended up, but his ceiling was always limited and his biggest supposed strength, informational processing and reading the game, looks completely non-existent now.

eagle eye

So after watching Bob Kraft's question and answers session it's quite clear that Bill was fired, mutual decision my ass.

So **** Bob Kraft, he made a stupid decision. Bill was willing to step back from being general manager like we all wanted.

If Jerod or Steve doesn't get the job I'll be really annoyed.

People talking about Vrabel as an option, it is if you want mediocrity. He's not that good, he's a defensive coach, his offense has never been that good despite having one of the best running backs in the last twenty years.

And I love Vrabel, he was an awesome player for us but I don't want him near the team as a head coach.

cosatron

In bill's defence, losing mcdaniels had a huge effect on the offence and the experiment with judge and Patricia was a disaster

ELM327

Yeah I'm kinda disappointed with this. And that's an understatement. I am glad it was at least a respectable departure and not a sh1tstorm. The joint press conference is exactly what was needed.

A clearing house move sounds good. Move on from pretty much everyone and have a massive rebuild. I don't think we're that far away though. With a free agent Bill available, I'd pick him over the other coaching options, so I'm not sure what this move does for the franchise. I don't want Mayo, he's another defensive minded coach. I quite like Vrabel and I think he did well in tennesee. I don't want any Harbaugh near the franchise. I couldnt root for them.

Ideally now we bring in a "head of football operations" and a HC, both people at the same time, set the direction moving forward. I do however think the future is harder and not easier, now that BB is gone. He's this generations best head coach, for sure, without question, and still has so much to offer.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121605171#Comment_121605171

Agreed it was good to see respect been shown by both men. Fair play to Kraft in the Q&A. Stood up there and gave all the questions a good hearing and due consideration.

There was no BS. He gave BB his fair dues and talked about giving Honour and Respect to Bill after this. He had a decision to make and went with his instincts. I'd take him at face value in that it was both of their instincts to part ways.

Talked about the 'Power 'Structure' and how it evolved after the 3rd SB win and how BB had "earned it" i.e. complete control. That "All of us needs checks and balances in our lives" and with BB not in complete control there wouldn't be "Accountability" and "set up confusion".

Unprecedented tenure and achievements in sports. A truly golden era in Boston that wont be repeated in our lifetimes.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121605171#Comment_121605171

Let me get this right. You don't want Jerod because he's a defensive coach but you want Vrabel, a defensive coach whose been fired after going 13-21 the last two seasons?

Vrabel took over a team that went 9-7 in consecutive seasons before he got there. He had one season where he bettered that.

His team's offensive rankings since he got there,

2018 24th

2019 12th

2020 3rd

2021 17th

2022 30th

2023 28th

Tell me what you see in him that makes you believe he would improve the Patriots?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606275#Comment_121606275

They traded his main WR and the guy has had a succession of mid QBs at best. The team was basically run derrick henry into the ground and if that doesnt work, do it some more anyway. They had no other weapons. A not dissimilar problem to the current pats team, but stevenson isnt henry.

Vrabel is a former Pat, he's at worst a semi-proven NFL level coach, and at best has potential to improve in a better environment than Tennesee. He's not going to demand GM control, he's got affinity for the patriots, and as you say is a good defensive mind. I think it's similar to the QB discussion. I think someone with some proven history in the league with some development ceiling still to attain, is a better bet than a rookie with no experience. (especially, in the QB case, if picked high).

If we have Vrabel as HC, accept we are in a building phase that should have started 3 years ago and commit to another say 2 years of building, I reckon we can return to competitive football and maybe start looking at playoff football again. It starts with trading out of the top 10.

I like Mayo, and he's done well in his role with defensive coaching but he's not even a DC yet. It's too soon and he doesnt have enough league experience. I'm also somewhat wary of the "BB tree" as most have been awful head coaches. Vrabel as HC with Mayo as DC would be my choice.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606437#Comment_121606437

It's his fault he only had a poor to average QB. Everything that went wrong there was his fault.

This is what Vrabel said about the AJ Brown trade, "I love A.J. personally. I know how Jon (Robinson, then-Titans GM) feels about him. But (I’m) very comfortable with how this went down and how Jon and I were able to navigate this. Support him in making decisions. Unfortunately, we understand that if we’re going to be here a while, we’re not going to be able to keep every player that we draft and develop.” 

So it appears Vrabel was well involved in the decision to trade Brown. So you can't put that up as any sort of defense for his pathetic record over the last two seasons.

Also we don't need a rebuild unless players are lining up to get out the door, which wouldn't surprise me with Belichick gone.

We need two offensive tackles and an elite wide receiver. We may need a QB but I'd wait and see how things unfold with Jones and/or Zappe before I'd make a move at QB. Put those pieces in place and it goes from a nightmare offense to a friendly one for a QB. We had a top five defense this season despite missing two of our best players in Judon and Gonzalez and that defense rarely got much rest during games which makes their performance quite incredible.

eagle eye

Jerod got the job. Glad it's him.

ELM327

Ok. that was quick. Can't say I fully agree with the decision but he's our HC now so best to rally behind him.

I don't think we're as close as you think we are, 2 OT and an elite WR, we still wouldnt have an interior OL, a QB, and most of our best defenders (who did play well as a group this season) are either coming off of injury, are free agents, or the wrong side of their early 30s, or a combination. We're also losing on special teams with the retirement of Slater. A good locker room influence as well as contributor.

I think we need a full rebuild. We have a tough division with 3 potential playoff teams on any given sunday. If we were in say the NFC south I'd agree with you!

AbusesToilets

Be interesting to see what the Bears do. If they're sticking with Fields , strong chance they take Harrison at 1. So we have a chance at Williams or Maye. I don't agree with trading back, we need elite talent on offense, and it starts this draft

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606856#Comment_121606856

Who are theses players on the wrong side of thirty that you speak of? Lawrence Guy and who else?

What's wrong with players returning from injury? If they make TC it's all fine. .Judon and Gonzalez will make TC.

ELM327

Judon is 32.Wise, Phillips, a few others Im probably forgetting are north of or just about to be, 30.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121608012#Comment_121608012

Phillips is a backup, Wise is 29.

Judon is 31. Are you saying 31 or even 32 is too old? How many all-pro selections are you predicting will be over 30 this year?

We don't need to spend high draft picks or sign big names for our defense this year.

Keion White will likely be a starter this year.

We need to do new deals with Dugger, Jennings and Uche obviously. We can do them because we won't have a big QB contract, we don't have big wide receiver contracts either. I'd put a first round tender on Dugger.

ELM327

32 is perfectly fine if you're a contender. It's not, if you're starting a 2-3 year rebuild. Which a team with 4 wins and no QB and a rookie head coach with no OC/DC experience is exactly what you're looking at.

We need OL and WR in the draft as highest priority. After that, I'd start looking at defense. I'm absolutely not saying "hey lets spend the top 5 pick on a defensive back or a pass rusher", or spend big in FA - pointless as I don't expect us to be contending next year. I don't watch much college football but people seem quite high on Marvin Harrison or Joe Alt to the patriots at 3. As they are WR and OT respectively,I'd be happy with that. Particularly with the size of Alt. Not sure I want a harrison at WR after the years his father spent with Peyton :P

I was reading the updated CBS draft analysis after the games last week and they seem to think our needs are a lot wider than you do btw

3. New England Patriots (4-13)

Team needs: OT, DT, TE, WR, LB

eagle eye

Marvin Harrison jr. is the best player in the draft. As usual QBs are considered more important to a lot of teams but he is the best prospect.

eagle eye

Watched Jerod's introductory press conference today. He talked a lot and smiled a lot but he gave away nothing.

Where did he learn that from I wonder?

Coreyhotline

O’Brien going to Ohio state as oc according to espn. Can’t say I’m surprised, but probably means a significant turnover on offensive coaching side now.

eagle eye

I'm glad O'Brien is gone. He did nothing to improve the offense. If you can't improve on what Patricia and Judge did it's not good.

Coreyhotline

How’d people feel about josh coming back? I’d be ok with it. As with all these things, hard to tell how much is josh and how much is Brady, I would say that every backup in NE was ready to go when Brady was down.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640594#Comment_121640594

Remember Matt Cassel in '08. He went 11-5, got a nice contract with the Chiefs after being traded there in '09.

I've a feeling Josh will go with Bill though.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640594#Comment_121640594

I'd rather a clean break from the past. I don't know that EP system works without Brady, it demands too much from QBs who don't have the processing ability

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641628#Comment_121641628

What QBs did it not work with besides Cam Newton? Worked with Cassel, worked with Jimmy G, Jones looked very good in his rookie season.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642189#Comment_121642189

No other team in the league runs it afaik, not to mention few colleges do so. Might make more sense to run a different scheme to better support a rookie QB.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642299#Comment_121642299

But it worked with players starting for the first time, two rookies and a fourth year guy who'd never started before.

Why dump something that's proven to be successful?

Anyway as I said above I think it's a lot more likely that Josh goes wherever Bill does. The Falcons would be a great spot for him. It'll be a new QB there, you've got Bijon Robinson and a more than capable backup in Algeier. Drake London and Kyle Pitts there with Jonnu as backup. Probably need to improve the receiving corp but they've got the most important part in an elite one

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640594#Comment_121640594

I'd welcome him back but would be concerned about the dynamic between him and Mayo as a rookie HC with no OC/DC experience. I always said mcdaniels is a great QB focused OC, and if we still were under Bill I'd welcome him back no questions asked. I agree with your assessment. What he got out of Jimmy G, Mac Jones in year 1, Matt Cassel was nothing short of overachievement.

eagle eye

Alex Van Pelt gets the offensive co-ordinator gig.

I'm a bit nonplussed by that. He was OC in Cleveland last year and he didn't call the plays. He got sacked at the end of the season.

It's hard to know how he'll do but he's not some young guy with the potential to be a whizz kid.

I'm not criticising the hire, I don't know how it'll work out. I'm just not expecting fireworks on offense.

He had Joe Flacco last year who reinvented himself under Van Pelt, Amari Cooper did well under him too as did their tight end Njoku.

I'm wondering if that means we bring in a veteran QB, maybe Flacco, or Mac gets another chance and we draft Harrison?

AbusesToilets

Seems like Baker is going back to Tampa. I don't think we'd go for Cousins. Perhaps it will be Harrison, and roll with Zappe while we continue to build through the draft, even if next year seems likeky to be a down year for QBs

Mr. Guappa

Most early mocks I've seen have us taking a QB, either Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels, assuming Caleb Williams goes #1.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121739672#Comment_121739672

wouldnt put much stock in the mock drafts. QB is not the best decision for us, we're at the start of a multi year project.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121739697#Comment_121739697

Totally agree and Maye and Williams will be 1 and 2.

There are question marks over Daniels. Firstly it was one great season, he didn't look so good before then. Secondly it's not certain his game will transfer well to the NFL.

Personally I think if we stay at 3 we should take Marvin Harrison junior.

I was thinking though that the clueless Blank might be interested in moving up for Daniels. We could get a great deal out of them. Get the no.8 pick, Drake London and maybe Thier second this year and next.

That would give us a top wide receiver, a left tackle high in the draft and there's a couple of really.giid prospects and then two second rounders where there should be plenty if very talented QBs available at 34 and then another second round pick to try and replace one of the free agent defenders we lose. We need to resign Dugger and Onwenu.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743131#Comment_121743131

If Atlanta were trading, I'd rather Pitts myself. Think he's been quality in a dire team, and top level TEs are harder to find than WRs.

AbusesToilets

First 2 episodes of the dynasty are decent, certainly better than the Man in the Arena. I'm hoping they might bring in players from other teams to talk about the pats

eagle eye

I couldn't care less about it. The past is behind us, all I care about is the future.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121802257#Comment_121802257

Watched it last night, it's based on the book The Dynasty that came out a few years back, it's the same stories just with video clips of the events. If you've read the book, there's no new stories so far anyway

Irish94

What platform are you guys watching it on?

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121810398#Comment_121810398

watching it on Apple in the US

eagle eye

Lots suggesting we will take Jayden Daniels with the third pick.

I'm not liking our new staff right now, throwing a couple of shots at Belichick. If they draft Daniels at three I'm pretty much on the verge of wanting them fired.

How on earth do you think it's a good idea to draft a QB with an awful offensive line to fix and needing a top wide receiver?

Your QB could be seriously injured, lose his confidence or develop bad habits before things are ready for him to have a chance to perform.

I'm hoping somebody like the Falcons and their idiot owner look to move up. If it's the Falcons you could get London or Pitts and their first round and their second this year and next. If you got London and Alt or Fashanu at 8 then you are in a lot better shape than you were last year.

You can trade back up into the teens in the first with your two second rounders if you wish, I personally wouldn't. If there's a prospect you like at QB in the second then go draft him, if not then an offensive guard and a replacement for one of the defenders we lose in FA would be good.

I'm assuming here that we re-sign Dugger and Onwenu.

eagle eye

Another thing that's annoying me for the last while is mediots saying nobody wanted Belichick. While that may be the case there is also the possibility that Bill didn't want any of the jobs that were open but nobody has even opined that it might be the case. It's quite clear that Blank wanted him and it was after his second meeting with BB that he quickly hired Morris. I'm thinking he signed Morris that quickly to avoid the embarrassment of being rejected by a coach becoming a headline. Thing is, if it was the case, nobody was ever going to hear about it from Bill.

Again I'm only surmising here but I couldn't imagine Bill working for an idiot like Blank.

el Fenomeno

Kraft has irrevocably tarnished himself in a lot of fans eyes, my own included, with this The Dynasty bollox.

The most blatant Kraft puff piece and Belichick hit job you'll ever see. The more recent episodes - particularly the Hernandez one - leave a very bad taste.

eagle eye

Just a little nugget about the third pick in the draft. Three quarterbacks have been taken at three in the last ten years, they are Blake Bortles, Sam Darnold and Trey Lance.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121840151#Comment_121840151

Hard to say tbh. Bill should carry a fair of the blame for how Hernandez was handled.

Disappointed that Evans resigned with Tampa. Was hoping we could've grabbed him.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121841189#Comment_121841189

Thats a lot of draft capital wasted. Lets hope we don't do the same. It's a boring pick but I'm seeing more and more mocks sending Joe Alt to NE and I'd prefer that x100 over any QB in this draft.

I'd actually prefer if we traded back, but our trade back guru was fired!

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121853618#Comment_121853618

Well Blank is an idiot and I can see him offering us a lot to get the Falcons to no.3 to take a QB. I think we'd get Alt at 8 or Fashanu. I'd be happy with either.

AbusesToilets

Baker resigning with the Bucs makes calculations a bit different. I'm still pro signing MHJ at 3 if he's there, over taking a middling QB, but that's likely commiting us to at least another 2 years of being average to poor and hoping to be in a position to draft a good QB

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121854830#Comment_121854830

If we stay at 3 I'm 100% in your corner.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855237#Comment_121855237

Would you take Wilson, if he offered to sign for a vet minimum deal? I've never been a fan of his personality, but he was an elite QB for a long time. Last season is a hard one to judge, he was playing decently before the Broncos benched him for contract reasons.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855250#Comment_121855250

I think he might be done. He's had a long career and I think the last few years in Seattle and Denver with a poor offensive line has taken its toll.

On a one year vet minimum deal it'd probably be no harm to bring him in as a backup. He's a good guy and he'd definitely be a great mentor to a rookie or even Mac if he got another shot.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855250#Comment_121855250

A shorter version of the version of Cam we had a couple of years ago. He does nothing to bring the team forward. As a mentor for a rookie, sure, but I'm hoping we don't have a rookie QB! I see us entering training camp with Zappe, a round 3-4 QB, and a veteran or two. Russel could be one of them

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855261#Comment_121855261

Russ played pretty solidly last year. Not close to his price tag.

He can also be a mentor to the rest of the offense. He knows what a Qb wants from receivers, from the O line.

Plus with a new coach a veteran qb might be helpful.