New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

AbusesToilets

bruschi wrote: »

Crap game. The flag happy refs (when they felt like throwing a flag) made crap of it. Granted, a lot were pre snap so definitley flagged, but some of them were ridiculous calls that either made a mess of our drive or kept theirs going.

Ultimately though, it was a poor showing. The ints from Harmon barely kept the defence ticking over. Their third string RB ran all over us. Scoring 10 points will win you the square sum of F all. For a potential top seed team, they really dont look like one. The offence really is really not clicking. Genuinely wouldnt surprise me to see Gronk retire this off season. He looks bet.

Its not the first time I've written off the Patriots, but before it was more in haste and frustration and early in the season, this time it is more that I dont see where the improvements can come from and we are in the back straight leading into playoffs.

There doesn't seem to be any fire to them this year. Brady hasn't seemed like his usual, Terminator self. I'd agree on Gronk, seems to be devoid of energy and personality. Saddening to see.

j8wk2feszrnpao

bruschi wrote: »

Its not the first time I've written off the Patriots, but before it was more in haste and frustration and early in the season, this time it is more that I dont see where the improvements can come from and we are in the back straight leading into playoffs.

When you look at the main playmakers, has age/injury just caught up on them?

• Brady isn't the problem, and the pens/drops just made it far more difficult. But he is 41yrs old; there has to be some drop in his play.
• Edelman has dropped some really bad ones this year. He's 32, had a year out with injury, missed the opening 4 games. Those 3rd and 8 pickups he got so often aren't there as much.
• Gronk may very well retire in the off season. He's just a regular TE at this stage. He's 29, but when you go through his injury record, he's closer to 39. He doesn't owe the Pats anything, and maybe should consider his long term health.

Brady, Gronk, Edelman. At the heart of everything good for a number of years, but it can't keep going forever.

And it's not like we were beaten by a high flying team. Pitt did a lot to help us last night. 5 loses, all away from the comforts of home. We don't look like a tough team. Maybe we go on a playoff run, but right now, it's more likely we go one and done (esp if away).

Shedite27

munstermagic11 wrote: »

[*]Gronk may very well retire in the off season. He's just a regular TE at this stage. He's 29, but when you go through his injury record, he's closer to 39. He doesn't owe the Pats anything, and maybe should consider his long term health.

I agree with everything bar Gronk, he's still elite but is double teamed on every play. Even with that some of his grabs were sensational last night. He had one towards the end last night with two defenders on top of him. I think you're right he may retire, but we'll never get a TE to occupy 2 defenders every play (even at 29)

bruschi

Shedite27 wrote: »

I agree with everything bar Gronk, he's still elite but is double teamed on every play. Even with that some of his grabs were sensational last night. He had one towards the end last night with two defenders on top of him. I think you're right he may retire, but we'll never get a TE to occupy 2 defenders every play (even at 29)

he only had 2 receptions last night. Granted, the one you say was impressive, but it was a standard catch with a great physical effort to get over the first down marker. but even allowing for double teaming or whatever, it was never an issue before, or times when he is left one on one on the outside, he isnt coming up with the goods anymore.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Shedite27 wrote: »

I agree with everything bar Gronk, he's still elite but is double teamed on every play. Even with that some of his grabs were sensational last night. He had one towards the end last night with two defenders on top of him. I think you're right he may retire, but we'll never get a TE to occupy 2 defenders every play (even at 29)

bruschi kinda covered it. I don't think you can put Gronk in the elite category right now. His average yards is still very healthy, but catches are down, TDs are down, and just looking at him it's not the same.
Maybe, a bit like Brady, it's not all Gronk's fault for his drop in production (I mentioned Edelman, but across the board we are down offensively this year). And the lack of any other TE option has definitely not helped; Hollister and Allen has been a total non factor.

eagle eye

Brady, Gronk, Edelman, Michel, Gordon and White are not the problem. The offensive line is the problem, it appears the only thing they can do consistently is given up penalties.

BizzyC

eagle eye wrote: »

Brady, Gronk, Edelman, Michel, Gordon and White are not the problem. The offensive line is the problem, it appears the only thing they can do consistently is given up penalties.

True, but at the same time Brady in previous years was able to plaster over a lot of issues.
This year he's afraid of hits; he's throwing off the back foot more, he's running away from pressure in the pocket, he's forcing throws.
It used to be that he would stand tall under the pressure and make the play, take the hit.
In the past teams had to try and get to Brady with a 4 man rush, blitzing him was suicide.
This year blitzes have him spooked, even when the O Line does make a block he's still rushing his plays.

Take that final play in the Steelers game for example, TJ Watt came around the corner and fell over. He was no where near Brady, but Brady decided to throw the ball while turning his back to Watt and went to the ground to protect himself from a hit that never came.
Not saying he would have completed had he stayed on his feet, but younger Brady would never have been thinking about protecting himself until after he got his throw off.

j8wk2feszrnpao

BizzyC wrote: »

True, but at the same time Brady in previous years was able to plaster over a lot of issues.
This year he's afraid of hits; he's throwing off the back foot more, he's running away from pressure in the pocket, he's forcing throws.
It used to be that he would stand tall under the pressure and make the play, take the hit.
In the past teams had to try and get to Brady with a 4 man rush, blitzing him was suicide.
This year blitzes have him spooked, even when the O Line does make a block he's still rushing his plays.

Take that final play in the Steelers game for example, TJ Watt came around the corner and fell over. He was no where near Brady, but Brady decided to throw the ball while turning his back to Watt and went to the ground to protect himself from a hit that never came.
Not saying he would have completed had he stayed on his feet, but younger Brady would never have been thinking about protecting himself until after he got his throw off.

All this is true; but even then, Brady isn't the issue for the team. He's made the Pro Bowl (bit surprised), which made be more reflective of the lack of quality QB play from others (although Luck might have made it).
In terms of OL, Brady has been sacked only 19 times. It's not the only barometer for judging pressure (esp as Brady is good to throw it away to avoid sacks), but he's ranked 28th, so it's not the OL that's been the problem.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

2 Patriots on the Pro-Bowl, Brady and Gilmore.

I think Brady is lucky to get on it tbh, I thought Luck and the 2 others deserved it. That being said it's not a major injustice.

Gilmore (imo of course) thoroughly deserved it. Himself and Jackson have come in for a lot of praise after the Steelers game, effectively shutting down Brown and Schuster. Only disappointing thing for Gilmore is that he wasn't named a starter.
I really think Gilmore should be 1st team All-Pro, but it's a toss-up between him, Fuller & Jones imo. He should at least make 2nd team after the season he's had. The only Patriot in with a shout which is very disappointing.

BizzyC

I thought Brady was fortunate TBH, Watson and Luck were more deserving this season.

It's a sad thing alright that Gilmore is the only Patriot I can look at and think it's reasonable for him to be an All-Pro player.

boccy23

Josh Gordon stepping away from football for mental health reasons.

boccy23

Coming out now that he is facing a suspension for failure to meet all terms on his substance abuse policy.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

boccy23 wrote: »

Josh Gordon stepping away from football for mental health reasons.

Yea it's a shame, there's obviously something fundamentally wrong with him. Just hope he takes adequate time off to fully address that, and hopefully it's not the last time we see him tog out, for us or another team. He's a fantastic talent but it never really worked out for him with us, despite some amazing moments.

I think any minuscule hope we had at a Superbowl is now gone. Our receiving corps, which looked potentially brilliant on paper back when we got Gordon, looks lacklustre to say the least. Teams can now go back to doubling Gronk if there's any sniff of him being the player he once was, and outside of Edelman we've no reliable pass-catcher - not that he's the most reliable these days either.
One thing we will most likely see more of is the short passes to White. Not too sure why we relented with them tbh, but there won't be too many other options from now on.

The Bills game is looking like a real banana-skin. Their defense is legit, and if Josh Allen gets on a roll (especially against our run-D), we could be in serious trouble. The team really needs to show a bit of fight this weekend, on both sides of the ball. I think the Eagles will take the Texans in Philly, and if they do we're in prime position for the #2 seed with a victory.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

I think any minuscule hope we had at a Superbowl is now gone.

Still a chance with Brady, but it's a slim chance now.
Bar we get a bit of luck to grab back the #2 seed, I don't see us making it to the AFC game.
There's a major over haul required in the off season, particularly on offense. I was hopeful that we'd have Gordon, and a off season with Brady, he'd be the No1 receiver. But now, with Gronk looking done, Eldelman showing his age, nothing else at the TE position, thin at WR..... there's maybe too much to get done in one go.

Mysterypunter

boccy23 wrote: »

Josh Gordon stepping away from football for mental health reasons.

Ridiculous wasted talent, its not all about mental health either, the chap is smoking his brains out since he's about 12, his brain is fried. Has all the ingredients, but he would be better off away from it all, reminds me of Ricky Williams, there are lots of similarities in their stories.

Christy42

Mysterypunter wrote: »

boccy23 wrote: »

Josh Gordon stepping away from football for mental health reasons.

Ridiculous wasted talent, its not all about mental health either, the chap is smoking his brains out since he's about 12, his brain is fried. Has all the ingredients, but he would be better off away from it all, reminds me of Ricky Williams, there are lots of similarities in their stories.

Honestly probably better for his health than whatever Edelman put in his body. Or indeed the amount of alcohol drank by some players over the Christmas period.

Certainly I would not advocate weed smoking or claim it is healthy generally but the puritan stance on weed is ridiculous. I don't get why performance enhancing drugs seem to not have the same effect. If someone wants to smoke weed and play I say let him as long he can perform.

Mysterypunter

Christy42 wrote: »

Honestly probably better for his health than whatever Edelman put in his body. Or indeed the amount of alcohol drank by some players over the Christmas period.

Certainly I would not advocate weed smoking or claim it is healthy generally but the puritan stance on weed is ridiculous. I don't get why performance enhancing drugs seem to not have the same effect. If someone wants to smoke weed and play I say let him as long he can perform.

I don't have a puritan stance on it, but it affects people differently, it doesn't suit that chap

Christy42

Mysterypunter wrote: »

Christy42 wrote: »

Honestly probably better for his health than whatever Edelman put in his body. Or indeed the amount of alcohol drank by some players over the Christmas period.

Certainly I would not advocate weed smoking or claim it is healthy generally but the puritan stance on weed is ridiculous. I don't get why performance enhancing drugs seem to not have the same effect. If someone wants to smoke weed and play I say let him as long he can perform.

I don't have a puritan stance on it, but it affects people differently, it doesn't suit that chap

Sorry. Wasn't accusing you. I meant the stance of the NFL always seems overly harsh on it.

Mysterypunter

Christy42 wrote: »

Sorry. Wasn't accusing you. I meant the stance of the NFL always seems overly harsh on it.

Didn't take it that way at all, tiz grand. I think the amount of pressure on Josh Gordon would have contributed greatly to his mental health issues. Unfortunately, his success as a football player would lead to many more problems off the field. Watch ESPN 30 for 30 episode "Broke". See the kind of thing some people have to put up with.

Clareman

A couple of the tight losses this season coming back to bite us now, still an outside chance of no. 1 seeds but I doubt it, still bye week and Kansas/LA don't look unbeatable means it could be home field advantage for the playoffs.

Clareman

To win a division 10 years in a row is some record as well by the way, sure it could be considered a soft division but 10 years is a great record, I don't think any GAA team managed that in any of the provinces (outside of Antrim & Galway)

eagle eye

We won five before Brady's injury cost him the season and we've won every one since that season.

eagle eye

During the game today when the Jets did something awful I started thinking about how lucky we are to have Bill Belichick. Then I started thinking how lucky we are to have Bob Kraft.
Like Belichick was all set to take the Jets job and Kraft convinced him to come back to Foxboro and take the Patriots job.
They could be us for the last 19 years and even more horrifying we could be like they have been.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Interesting to note that not one playoff team beat the Pats this year.

Also finishing undefeated at home breaks the record for the most undefeated home seasons in the NFL (Vikings had 7, we're now on 8).

Since 2010 only 4 teams have not played on wild card weekend. They are the Buccs, the Bears, the Browns and the Pats. Goes to 3 teams this year with the Bears finishing as the 3 seed.

Pats become the first franchise with 500 regular season wins.

Finally, one for all those (including me) who say Tom Brady hasn't looked great this year: he finishes the season with 300 less yards than last year, along with 3 less TDs and 3 more INTs. Last season he won the MVP.
Still think his age is finally showing but its probably been blown out of proportion a bit.

eagle eye

I don't think his age is showing at all. I think the OL has been poor. When he gets time he is as clinical as ever.
You see him not looking good but he is throwing the ball away a lot to avoid the sack.

eagle eye

Patriots have played four teams that made the playoffs this season, they are the Chiefs, Texans, Colts and Bears. 4-0 against them.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Gilmore makes 1st team all-pro. Thoroughly deserved, he's had a fantastic season. Funny too as Jalen Ramsey told him to "try being a all-pro" back in September when they had a little spat.

Patterson also made 2nd team all-pro as the kick returner.

Frankie Cortese

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

Gilmore makes 1st team all-pro. Thoroughly deserved, he's had a fantastic season. Funny too as Jalen Ramsey told him to "try being a all-pro" back in September when they had a little spat.

Patterson also made 2nd team all-pro as the kick returner.

It appears everyone Ramsey dissed (except Peyton Manning) has had a brilliant season since.

PhuckHugh

Did a one dimensional Baltimore make the Chargers look better than they are last weekend? - No Doubting the Baltimore D, it's legit, but their O is very average and the Chargers had a good look at it 3 weeks prior...

We dont have the pass rush, but they have to get pressure on Rivers - he'll turn it over if he's pressed. Obviously, If they can protect Brady, Pats have a great shot... big if tho. White is gonna have a monster day I think- --- Similarly, Ekeler the big worry for Chargers ... can see him do wreck on 3rd down.

If the Pats are in it down the stretch they win ... Chargers got tired in the 4th Sunday and nearly collapsed .... on the road again this Sunday and can see more of the same - Chargers get a lead and Pats slowly reel them in. Just depends on how big a lead they have to chase down.

PhuckHugh

https://twitter.com/Edelman11/status/1082690666495463424

j8wk2feszrnpao

The Chargers have won in Seattle, at Pittsburgh, at KC and at Baltimore. Those are good wins. We need to be close to our best.

dh1985

Think chargers are the best team left in the AFC. Don't think we will have enough to beat them even with home field advantage

Earleybird

dh1985 wrote: »

Think chargers are the best team left in the AFC. Don't think we will have enough to beat them even with home field advantage

Behind the Chiefs and the Pats they are probably the joint best team left in AFC

eagle eye

Earleybird wrote:

Behind the Chiefs and the Pats they are probably the joint best team left in AFC

The Chargers and Patriots have both beaten the Chiefs. They lost to us in Gillette and the Chargers in Arrowhead.

dh1985

Earleybird wrote: »

Behind the Chiefs and the Pats they are probably the joint best team left in AFC

Think we had an easier schedule than them and the chargers have better momentum coming into playoffs. The chargers were 12-4. Seedings don't always reflect everything

eagle eye

The Chiefs record looks better than it actually is when you look closer.
They had two good wins to start the season, they beat the Chargers in LA and the Steelers in Pittsburgh.
Besides that their best win was over the Ravens at Arrowhead in overtime.
Their other wins were the Broncos x 2, the Raiders x 2, and then the Browns, Bengals, Jags, 49ers and Cards.
Their losses have come against the Patriots, Chargers, Rams and Seahawks.

So they've lost to pretty much all the better teams they've played.

PhuckHugh

We are going to dismantle them .... Old man Rivers will have a meltdown in a chilli fox'boro - We will dink and dunk it to White, Edleman and Burkhead all day ---- Gronk can still block if he cant catch.... someone needs to test Gordon's knees early.

me89

https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1082278976226238464?s=19

Justin10

me89 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1082278976226238464?s=19

Can anyone find a forecast that predicts snow, everywhere I've checked predicts cold cloudy weather?

PhuckHugh wrote: »

someone needs to test Gordon's knees early.

Nice.. The Patriot way

PhuckHugh

Rochey18 wrote: »

Can anyone find a forecast that predicts snow, everywhere I've checked predicts cold cloudy weather?



Nice.. The Patriot way

There's only one way, the winning way.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Rochey18 wrote: »

Nice.. The Patriot way

One persons (unthanked) opinion becomes the Patriot way? How nice of you. No surprise to see you've been thanked by another person with a grudge against the Pats.

PhuckHugh

munstermagic11 wrote: »

One persons (unthanked) opinion becomes the Patriot way? How nice of you. No surprise to see you've been thanked by another person with a grudge against the Pats.

People get very worked up about a few throw away comments ...any excuse to have a pop at the Pats.

The Good Ole Boys

PhuckHugh wrote: »

People get very worked up about a few throw away comments ...any excuse to have a pop at the Pats.

You wan test a man's knees, you mean you want someone to hurt another human on puirpose. Not nice.

j8wk2feszrnpao

The Good Ole Boys wrote: »

You wan test a man's knees, you mean you want someone to hurt another human on puirpose. Not nice.

I don't want to see them target anyones knee; but legally hitting him hard and see if he's physically up to the challenge, yeah that's ok.

Bit like in the Chargers thread where someone (who of course thinks one person throwaway comment is the Patriot way) wants to see Bosa and Ingram getting after Brady (and it will be a joy). You can see that as wanting to hurt another human and take joy from it (I guess that now equates to the Chargers way), but I'm guessing that it's a case of wanting to legally hit him and try upset his game; but haven't seen you post about it there.

PhuckHugh

The Good Ole Boys wrote: »

You wan test a man's knees, you mean you want someone to hurt another human on puirpose. Not nice.

You're blowing up a nothing comment ... hits are part of the game - i'm not advocating murder, just to go out and give him a good rattle and see how he fares... I take it you've never played sport yourself?

PhuckHugh

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I don't want to see them target anyones knee; but legally hitting him hard and see if he's physically up to the challenge, yeah that's ok.

Bit like in the Chargers thread where someone (who of course thinks one person throwaway comment is the Patriot way) wants to see Bosa and Ingram getting after Brady (and it will be a joy). You can see that as wanting to hurt another human and take joy from it (I guess that now equates to the Chargers way), but I'm guessing that it's a case of wanting to legally hit him and try upset his game; but haven't seen you post about it there.

The double standards are bizarre ... You might even say, you couldn't make it up.

Justin10

Ooo dear.. Very uptight in here.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Rochey18 wrote: »

Ooo dear.. Very uptight in here.

Says the uptight person to begin it all.
Deals it out, but can't take it. What's new.

PhuckHugh

Rochey18 wrote: »

Ooo dear.. Very uptight in here.

Looks like your knee just buckled.

Justin10

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Says the uptight person to begin it all.
Deals it out, but can't take it. What's new.

What's new...?

Course I'm uptight.. We've the better team yet everyone beleives the wonderful Tom Brady is going to go 3-0 against Rivers in the playoffs.. Sad times indeed.